22:02:10 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL
22:02:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Feb  5 22:02:10 2021 UTC.
22:02:10 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
22:02:10 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:02:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
22:02:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
22:02:31 <michel_slm> ah. we keep messing up the Server meeting name so I wasn't sure ;)
22:02:45 <tdawson> Overall Plan:
22:02:46 <tdawson> - epel-next is an epel branch that is built against CentOS Stream.  It
22:02:48 <tdawson> only has the packages that would be incompatible with released RHEL
22:02:49 <tdawson> builds, or if an EPEL maintainer is updating a package that will only
22:02:51 <tdawson> be released to regular EPEL at the next RHEL release.
22:02:52 <tdawson> - We plan on creating epel9-next when CentOS 9 Stream has a public
22:02:54 <tdawson> repository.  We plan on using the EPEL Packaging SIG to populate it
22:02:55 <tdawson> early with common packages, although any EPEL package maintainer can
22:02:57 <tdawson> add their packages whenever they want.
22:02:58 <tdawson> - We plan on creating normal EPEL9 after the RHEL 9.0 GA release, just
22:03:00 <tdawson> like normal.  No sooner.  All epel9-next packages will be rebuilt on
22:03:01 <tdawson> EPEL9.  They will not be "tagged over".
22:03:03 <tdawson> ugggg
22:03:04 <tdawson> sorry
22:03:08 <michel_slm> no topic :)
22:03:19 * carlwgeorge waves
22:03:42 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson bstinson pgreco carlwgeorge michel_slm
22:03:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: bstinson carlwgeorge michel_slm nirik pgreco tdawson
22:03:51 <tdawson> #topic aloha
22:03:58 <michel_slm> .hello salimma
22:03:59 <zodbot> michel_slm: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
22:04:04 <tdawson> Hi carlwgeorge
22:04:06 <tdawson> Hi michel_slm
22:04:11 <tdawson> Hi smooge
22:04:36 <tdawson> smooge: Did you want me to put you back on that list, or is your comming back just for a few weeks?
22:06:01 <smooge> I have no idea.. lets just keep me as 'former pope smoogen'
22:06:13 <carlwgeorge> lol
22:06:23 <tdawson> Ah ... I got my normal keyboard back ... I'm sorry for that spam above, I was trying a cut and paste, and it obviously went wrong.
22:06:44 <smooge> I stay in my keep for the most part but come down to the Holy See just to see how you are keeping up things :P
22:06:48 <michel_slm> Emeritus Chair
22:06:59 * nirik is sorta here, I guess
22:07:00 <tdawson> :)
22:07:03 <tdawson> Hi nirik
22:07:12 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
22:07:13 <tdawson> EPEL-Packaging-SIG
22:07:35 <tdawson> michel_slm: any change of status?
22:07:51 <tdawson> I didn't get the template done :(  It was a busy week this week.
22:08:12 <michel_slm> howdy! not yet, been busy with other things but I can look into enabling branch requests for collaborators after next Wednesday
22:08:16 <michel_slm> same here
22:09:00 <michel_slm> no more conferences after this weekend, and no more F34 deadlines after next Tuesday
22:09:11 <carlwgeorge> i'm gonna sound like a broken record when i make excuses about not making progress on epel next
22:09:22 <tdawson> Ha!
22:09:36 <pgreco> sorry, hi guys, I"m only about 5% here
22:09:36 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: How is epel8-next coming along?
22:09:41 <tdawson> Hi pgreco
22:10:18 * michel_slm waves at pgreco
22:10:36 <michel_slm> pgreco: heard at Dojo today that you're one of those working on alternate LTS kernels :D
22:10:37 <carlwgeorge> no change from last week, fedpkg needs work, along with fedora-infra ansible playbooks.
22:10:44 <pgreco> hey, dealing with fires at work when my weekend should have started already
22:10:50 <michel_slm> :(
22:10:53 <carlwgeorge> then we can move forward with implementing epel8-next in production
22:11:08 <pgreco> michel_slm: yeah, I try to keep the 1 or 2 latest lts for centos
22:11:13 <smooge> ok  can I help any
22:11:27 <pgreco> I branch them out of fedora and maintain them for a year or 2
22:12:02 <pgreco> smooge: nothing to worry about, just thing that I'd rather not have to do today ;)
22:12:09 <smooge> carlwgeorge, what in the playbooks need to look at
22:12:46 <carlwgeorge> smooge: do you still have the link to the hackmd we were working off of?
22:12:58 <smooge> ..... maybe
22:13:01 <carlwgeorge> https://hackmd.io/@carlwgeorge/ry-qCXDYv last three links
22:13:17 <carlwgeorge> distgit and repo2json roles
22:13:35 <smooge> ok will look at on Monday
22:13:46 <smooge> or this weekend while I am 'compiling'
22:14:45 <carlwgeorge> yeah i plan to tinker with fedpkg this weekend in between fosdem talks
22:15:06 <carlwgeorge> s/in between/during/
22:15:34 <michel_slm> I failed at waking up much earlier so I'll probably only attend talks that start at/after 14:00 CET
22:16:04 <carlwgeorge> oh crap i didn't even think about changing my sleep schedule to catch more talks
22:16:18 <tdawson> :)
22:16:33 * nirik is kinda online conferenced out... but will watch recordings later of interesting ones.
22:16:46 * carlwgeorge can relate
22:17:08 <pgreco> I find it really depressing to do online conferences
22:17:18 <tdawson> Anything else on epel8-next?
22:17:23 <pgreco> thinking that I should be freezing in Brussels right now....
22:17:28 <carlwgeorge> nah we can move on
22:17:55 <tdawson> OK ... the other thing from last week  was "documentation changes"  ... going from the wiki to fedora style docs.
22:18:20 <tdawson> I don't suppose anyone had any time to look at that?  I know I didn't.
22:18:39 <smooge> I looked a long time ago
22:18:56 <smooge> the biggest issue is always 'which f*ing thing they are using this week'
22:19:19 <smooge> I rewrote stuff in rst and got told to move it to markdown. I did markdown and now its asciidoc
22:19:32 <tdawson> I thought it had calmed down for at least a year.
22:19:43 <smooge> that would be when I quit :)
22:20:06 <tdawson> :)
22:20:25 <carlwgeorge> once i'm done with epel8-next stuff i plan to take a stab at converting the epel wiki guidelines into asciidoc and submitting a pr
22:20:36 <smooge> in any case it comes down to taking a day off and doing it
22:20:43 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: cool.  That would be great.
22:20:58 <carlwgeorge> it helps that no one is opposed to that change :D
22:21:11 <smooge> i think you should to it in TeX
22:21:16 <tdawson> True ... it's really just a matter of getting someone to do the initial changeover.
22:21:27 <michel_slm> <smooge "i think you should to it in TeX"> old school TeX, not even LaTeX? you're mean
22:21:40 <smooge> There is only the Lion book
22:22:16 <tdawson> :)
22:23:12 <tdawson> OK, moving on
22:23:13 <smooge> actually ... my Lion book seems to have finally fallen apart completely. it is only half here
22:24:05 <tdawson> The other topic we talked about last week was getting ready for RHEL9 / CentOS 9 Stream
22:24:18 <tdawson> I sent an email out, about 5 minutes before this meeting.
22:24:44 <smooge> I actually read it
22:24:53 <smooge> thanks for doing that
22:24:55 <tdawson> WhooHoo :)
22:25:03 <carlwgeorge> thanks for putting that together tdawson
22:25:11 <tdawson> I was hoping to get a summary out before the meeting, so we didn't have to re-hash what we'd already talked about.
22:25:27 <tdawson> Did it sound fairly accurate?
22:25:48 <smooge> it did.
22:26:36 <smooge> having it match to stream will make it go a lot faster because public feedback of 'how the f* do you expect this to f* compile?' can be done
22:27:04 <tdawson> Anything in it anyone wants to discuss?  Or should we just do it via email for the next week or two  *laughs*
22:27:19 <carlwgeorge> what i've read so far looks accurate
22:27:25 <smooge> I would say it probably needs some reading and digesting.
22:27:40 <tdawson> OK, then I'll put it on the topic for next week.
22:28:09 <tdawson> I think that's it for old business.
22:28:16 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-7
22:29:08 <tdawson> Anything for EPEL 7 this week?
22:29:46 <tdawson> I'll take the silence for a no
22:29:59 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-8
22:30:41 <tdawson> Any EPEL8 issues or things to discuss?
22:31:17 <michel_slm> I have one question but not sure if it's EPEL8-specific, I can wait until open floor
22:31:44 <tdawson> Well, I don't have any EPEL8 stuff, so let's move on
22:31:48 <smooge> I have no issues for EL7, EL8, and EL9
22:31:49 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
22:32:18 <tdawson> michel_slm: what's your question?
22:34:33 <tdawson> Must be a long question
22:34:39 <michel_slm> oh
22:34:43 <michel_slm> haha, sorry, was in another window
22:35:03 <michel_slm> just wondering about the relationship between EPEL and other repos that SIGs might produce
22:35:30 <michel_slm> epel (and epel-next) presumably can only depend on repos that ship in RHEL and their CentOS (Stream) equivalents, right?
22:35:43 <tdawson> Correct
22:35:43 <michel_slm> but any additional repos can choose to depend on EPEL?
22:35:47 <smooge> yes.
22:36:08 <michel_slm> that must be a record for question:answer length ratio :p
22:36:13 <smooge> most don't because they can't be assured their consumers do
22:36:23 <michel_slm> ah. yeah, was wondering about Hyperscale
22:36:28 <smooge> so instead they replicate it
22:36:51 <smooge> this is where epel being in CentOS makes a bit more sense at times.
22:36:58 <michel_slm> where I think new packages that don't conflict with RHEL/CS should go straight to EPEL, and only overrides and things that don't make sense without the Hyperscale repo should go to that repo
22:37:08 <smooge> if it was over there in there build system then builds could be tagged into the sigs content
22:37:16 <michel_slm> smooge: oh, is there any plan to make EPEL part of CentOS?
22:37:24 <smooge> hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahahahhahaahahaha
22:37:27 <nirik> but that has a number of downsides too.
22:37:34 * smooge has been removed from the room
22:37:38 * michel_slm broke smooge
22:37:53 <nirik> no longer building against rhel. Not being in the same place as fedora where maintainers are already maintaining things, etc.
22:38:16 <michel_slm> maybe it'll be clearer once more of the infra get merged
22:38:44 <michel_slm> we build epel against centos now, right? I see mock has both epel* and rhelepel*
22:38:47 <carlwgeorge> there is nothing wrong with sigs shipping packages that don't exist anywhere else (i.e. only make sense with other hyperscale sig packages)
22:38:52 <smooge> no we built it against RHEL
22:39:24 * smooge is given a nice electroshock and happy pills and comes back to play
22:39:31 <carlwgeorge> michel_slm: mock configs use centos for their epel targets, but epel itself does not
22:39:42 <carlwgeorge> *epel's koji mock configs
22:40:01 <smooge> nirik, I agree on those which is where this breaks down also.
22:40:25 * nirik isn't sure whats actually happening with the 'more infra merged' anymore. ;)
22:40:44 <smooge> nirik, however since multiple fedora maintainers have told me over the years what I can do with epel packages I don't see the second part as strong as I did
22:40:51 <nirik> but thats likely beyond this' meetings scope
22:41:36 <nirik> well, for each "I don't care about epel" there's lots more quietly just building it with their fedora packages.
22:41:39 <michel_slm> carlwgeorge: yup. for things that only make sense in hyperscale, those packages shouldn't be in epel
22:42:05 <michel_slm> yeah, the ones who care about epel tend to be the one that screams if they can't fast-forward update :)
22:43:04 <smooge> in any case, for the CentOS Stream SIGs it causes a problem because they usually need to build in/tag against specific items in their koji
22:43:30 <carlwgeorge> when i first heard about the idea of making centos upstream of rhel, my first thought was that rhel would be a subset of centos packages, and centos could have additional packages with community maintainers, obsoleting the need for epel.
22:43:47 <carlwgeorge> now that i'm inside the machine, i realize there are people that will never allow that to happen.
22:44:11 <nirik> carlwgeorge: huh, interesting idea...
22:44:39 <carlwgeorge> centos stream couldn't even ship a devel repo (well, we did and got yelled at and had to empty it out)
22:45:01 <nirik> but those were things in rhel...
22:45:24 * smooge asks for another round of treatment
22:45:55 <tdawson> Yep, that's stuff I don't even want to touch.
22:46:26 <smooge> yeah.. it is things like that make one Emeritus
22:46:34 <tdawson> :)
22:46:52 <tdawson> Anything else before we close the meeting?
22:47:04 <tdawson> I'm all for having an extra 10-15 minutes of weekend.
22:47:28 <michel_slm> carlwgeorge: yeah the idea that c9s and rhel are still built in parallel makes legal sense, but requiring them to match 1:1 is a bit sad
22:47:37 <michel_slm> weekend!
22:48:14 <tdawson> Thanks everyone for being here.  I'll talk to you all next week.
22:48:20 <smooge> thanks tdawson
22:48:24 <carlwgeorge> minor nit pick, we're trying to refer to stream as cs8 and cs9, despite what branch names would have you think
22:48:30 * smooge goes back to his mountain retreat
22:48:36 <nirik> counterstrike!
22:48:59 <michel_slm> cs9 instead of c9s? ok
22:49:00 <carlwgeorge> i.e. the distro is "centos stream", the version is 8 or 9 (not 8-stream, again despite what mirror directories would have you believe)
22:49:07 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: Good to hear ... I was having a dicussion today on what to call it, and none of us knew.  we'll go for cs9 cuz it's easeir to say.
22:49:08 <michel_slm> yeah, c8s is a bit too close to k8s haha
22:49:14 <carlwgeorge> yup
22:49:21 <tdawson> #endmeeting