20:00:26 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2021-10-13)
20:00:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 13 20:00:26 2021 UTC.
20:00:26 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
20:00:26 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
20:00:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2021-10-13)'
20:00:26 <tdawson> #meetingname epel
20:00:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
20:00:26 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson bstinson pgreco carlwgeorge michel dcavalca
20:00:26 <tdawson> #topic aloha
20:00:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: bstinson carlwgeorge dcavalca michel nirik pgreco tdawson
20:00:44 <pgreco> .hi
20:00:44 <zodbot> pgreco: pgreco 'Pablo Sebastian Greco' <pablo@fliagreco.com.ar>
20:00:55 <tdawson> Hi pgreco
20:01:23 <carlwgeorge> .hi
20:01:24 <zodbot> carlwgeorge: carlwgeorge 'Carl George' <carl@redhat.com>
20:01:32 <tdawson> Hi carlwgeorge
20:01:37 <smooge> hello
20:01:49 <smooge> ... has now made 3 meetings?
20:01:57 <tdawson> Hi smooge
20:02:08 <tdawson> And I've been in two of them. :)
20:02:49 <themayor> hello!
20:03:10 <tdawson> Hi themayor
20:03:51 <tdawson> themayor: I don't think I've seen you here before.  Are you new, or someone with a different alias?
20:04:44 <themayor> new. well, ive not been here in a few years ;)
20:05:04 <tdawson> Cool.  Well, welcome back.
20:05:25 <themayor> I'm AlmaLinux's community manager. Former Full-Time Fedoran
20:05:31 <tdawson> nirik said he was going to be a little late.
20:05:39 * carlwgeorge waves at themayor
20:05:53 * themayor waves back to everyone
20:06:00 <tdawson> themayor: very nice.   Did you need to bring anything in particular up?
20:06:54 <themayor> no, just getting back into the swing of things as time now allows
20:07:00 <smooge> waves to themayor
20:07:04 <tdawson> Nice
20:07:05 <themayor> hey smooge
20:07:07 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
20:07:18 <smooge> they worked in Fedora a long time ago also
20:08:01 <tdawson> Since nirik isn't here yet, I'll wait a bit on -next.   I do have an old old business that just came up ... Fails To Install
20:08:23 <smooge> Duh duh dunnnn
20:08:49 <tdawson> I've been revamping my old Will-It-Install script, and it's working pretty good. - https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/epel/willit/status-overall.html
20:09:44 <smooge> cool
20:09:52 <tdawson> It's still got some bugs ... it barfed on too many open files halfway through epel8 ... but it's getting there.
20:10:26 <tdawson> As much as I like Fedora's version ... there isn't anywhere someone can just look at everything.
20:11:38 <tdawson> The "Build" section is for a future "Will It Build" ... it's for epel9-next and epel9.   It will check if the packages that are used to build will be available in the epel9 buildroot.
20:12:23 <tdawson> I don't really have anything to test on yet, so that part isn't built.
20:13:16 <tdawson> Anyway, progress is being made.  Once it get's stable and can do a whole run, I'll get the interface a bit more clean, and then we can think about bugzillas and things like that.
20:13:25 <smooge> triple cool
20:13:57 <tdawson> That's about all I have for that, although I am/was concerned about 380 pages in epel8-testing
20:14:17 <tdawson> Looks like there are alot of packages in both epel8 and epel8-test ... and even epel8-testing-pending
20:15:22 <tdawson> But ... I'll file some releng tickets to clean those up.
20:15:38 <smooge> weird
20:16:08 <tdawson> Well, looking at it, the vast majority of them are from when I first imported kde, and I think bodhi barfed a bit, cuz they were all one update.
20:16:18 <smooge> yeah it did
20:16:34 <smooge> it barfed a bit on a lot of the early packages so they may have been in some sort of trapped state
20:16:46 <tdawson> yep.
20:17:22 <tdawson> Once I've got things stable, or maybe even before, I'll do some quick koji tagged stuff and get a good list for releng to cleanup.
20:17:31 <tdawson> Anyway, moving on.
20:18:13 <tdawson> pgreco: Do you have any progress to report on the macros you were working on?
20:18:34 <pgreco> tdawson: crazy week, slow progress
20:18:50 <pgreco> the code is done, it is mostly testing
20:19:15 <pgreco> hoping $dayjob allows me to do it for next week
20:19:37 <tdawson> Sounds good.   I'll check in next week.  Did you need any help with it?
20:20:17 <pgreco> if you know of a package that uses the macros in fedora, send it my way
20:20:22 <pgreco> but no more than that ;)
20:20:32 * nirik arrives late
20:20:35 <tdawson> OK, will do
20:20:46 <tdawson> Hi nirik
20:21:04 <tdawson> And moving on.
20:21:19 <tdawson> nirik carlwgeorge  How is epel9-next coming along ?
20:21:56 <carlwgeorge> got my epel-release pr merged for epel9-next, but while building it discovered a bad blocker
20:22:04 <carlwgeorge> it happened to pick an s390x builder for the noarch build, which failed to initialize the mock root because c9s packages require z14+
20:22:17 <carlwgeorge> fedora infra builders are on something older and have an open ticket to migrate to z15
20:22:34 * nirik nods sadly
20:22:39 <tdawson> Ouch
20:23:10 <carlwgeorge> last we heard that is supposed to happen by the end of this month, but i'm skeptical
20:23:30 <tdawson> So, what are we on right now?  z13?
20:23:37 <carlwgeorge> i'll be raising the issue up to management to hopefully get it prioritized
20:23:47 <tdawson> we = fedora infrastructure
20:23:48 <nirik> tdawson: yes
20:23:57 <nirik> and we are supposed to move to z15
20:24:14 <nirik> z14 is right out!
20:25:10 <tdawson> So, if we were to move forward without s390x entirely ... any non-noarch would have to be rebuilt after we get s390x setup ... correct?
20:25:24 <nirik> everything archfull would need rebuilding again yeah.
20:25:36 <carlwgeorge> that sounds like a world of hurt
20:25:42 <tdawson> Ya
20:26:03 <tdawson> It would let us know what builds and what doesn't ... but beyond that ... ya ... a bunch of hurt.
20:26:52 <tdawson> Is epel-release and epel-macros no-arch ?
20:27:01 <tdawson> My mind is just wondering what we can do while we wait.
20:27:33 <carlwgeorge> yes, both noarch
20:28:06 <carlwgeorge> we can certainly start setting up epel-rpm-macros like i did for epel-release, although i'm not sure what macros need to get overridden already
20:28:41 <tdawson> I think at this point, the main reason we need epel-rpm-macros is to pull in all the other macros.
20:29:09 <carlwgeorge> ah, so it's more about the other macros it requires, not it's overrides initially
20:29:20 <nirik> although we could also do that by adding them to the koji package list for the buildroot or srpm buildroot
20:29:41 <dcavalca> .hi
20:29:42 <zodbot> dcavalca: dcavalca 'Davide Cavalca' <dcavalca@fb.com>
20:29:49 <tdawson> Hi dcavalca
20:30:08 * carlwgeorge is in favor of nirik's alternate suggestion
20:30:30 <nirik> hopefully we will hear back from the mainframe folks soon and have at least a eta... we could decide what to do when we know more.
20:30:44 <carlwgeorge> well, on second thought, it's fairly certain we'll need to do overrides at some point, so we might as well have epel-rpm-macros
20:31:17 <tdawson> Let's at least work on it, get it branched.
20:32:36 <carlwgeorge> just requested the branch, i'll set it up the same way, merged epel8 commits and then a pull request for discussion
20:32:50 <nirik> +1
20:32:50 <tdawson> carlwgeorge Sounds good, thanks
20:33:30 <tdawson> I'm a bit bummed about the overall news (s390x) but at least there will be something to work on while we wait.
20:33:52 <nirik> hopefully it won't be too long...
20:33:58 <carlwgeorge> fingers crossed
20:34:02 <tdawson> Yep
20:34:12 <tdawson> Anything else for epel9-next ?
20:34:13 <smooge> so currently the s390x is used by a couple thousand systems.
20:34:23 <nirik> that many?
20:34:24 <smooge> most of them CI in amazon
20:34:47 <tdawson> Ha !  So... you mean most of them are emulators?
20:35:11 <tdawson> Or .... whatever the term is for "not real s390x machines"
20:35:26 <smooge> sorry couple hundred
20:35:33 <carlwgeorge> nothing else from me
20:35:36 <nirik> s390x does have one nice thing for us... it's the last big endian arch left we have, so it does show up coding mistakes.
20:35:46 <tdawson> :)
20:35:54 <tdawson> OK, moving on.
20:36:16 <tdawson> dcavalca: Do you have any update on the openssl3 stuff?
20:36:45 <dcavalca> tdawson: no update yet
20:36:53 <tdawson> OK.
20:37:16 <tdawson> Do you want me to keep bringing it up in the Old Business?  Or just let it be until you have an update?
20:37:46 <dcavalca> tdawson: I'll bring it up when I have something (probably next month, given how other things are going at the moment)
20:37:59 <dcavalca> thanks
20:38:06 <tdawson> dcavalca: OK, I'll put it on the back burner for now.
20:38:28 <tdawson> I think that's all the Old Business we have ... moving on ...
20:38:36 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-7
20:38:41 <smooge> I learned some new things about EPEL7 growth
20:38:52 <smooge> and also why EPEL6 is still big
20:38:59 * nirik got a email asking about koji there today. ;( still need to try and move that forward.
20:39:16 <smooge> asking about koji ?
20:39:22 <smooge> on epel6
20:39:32 <smooge> ?
20:39:32 <tdawson> Did koji stop working on epel7 ?   Or is it epel6 ?
20:39:41 <nirik> koji is python3 now. I cant update epel7 koji without moving it to python3, or it will not work anymore
20:39:50 <nirik> but I need some deps
20:39:52 <smooge> aaaaaah
20:40:15 * nirik looks for the bug
20:40:41 <carlwgeorge> as a general statement i'm in favor of epel7 packages switching to python3, and can even help some with adding dependencies
20:40:49 <tdawson> smooge: While he looks that up, why does epel6 still have such big numbers?
20:40:58 <nirik> 186210
20:41:08 <smooge> amazon aws is 95% of all EPEL6 usage
20:41:19 <pgreco> EUS?
20:41:22 <smooge> I am guessing Amazon-1
20:41:29 <carlwgeorge> yeah i was gonna say al1
20:41:32 <smooge> I am guessing Amazon Linux1
20:41:45 <carlwgeorge> it's rhel6 based (sorta) and i believe their docs say to use epel6
20:42:03 * nirik can try and work on it again soon. Too many things to do. ;(
20:42:23 <smooge> and... that hockey stick growth of EPEL-7 ? https://data-analysis.fedoraproject.org/csv-reports/images/epel-all.png That is AL2
20:42:26 <carlwgeorge> fwiw, al1 went eol on 2020-12-31
20:42:33 <nirik> is that the one with rhel6 + python 2.6 instead of normal python2?
20:42:34 <tdawson> nirik If you need any of the deps worked, on, let us know.
20:43:04 <carlwgeorge> nirik: i think it's 2.7, but yes
20:43:36 <nirik> well, there was one AL version where they replaced the rhel python2 version. I think it was that one. It caused some real problems with ansible as I recall.
20:44:11 <tdawson> I wonder if AL3 is going to be based off RHEL8 or 9
20:44:49 <nirik> anyhow... doesn't matter
20:44:58 <tdawson> Nope, moving on.
20:45:05 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-8
20:46:27 <tdawson> I take it nothing for EPEL 8?
20:46:50 <smooge> not from me
20:46:53 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-Packaging-SIG
20:47:36 <tdawson> dcavalca: Anything needed by the SIG?   Hmm ... I should put the openssl3 stuff in here I think.
20:48:26 <dcavalca> tdawson: we've started looking at what it'd take to get qemu packaged in epel9 when that's ready, and found a missing dependency: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2004762
20:49:12 <dcavalca> the only other thing I had is iptables-legacy, which I think I mentioned in the previous meeting
20:49:23 <dcavalca> that we might end up packaging in epel9 depending on how things go
20:49:49 <tdawson> dcavalca: Yep, I remember that.  Need any help with it, or any of the others?
20:50:09 <dcavalca> tdawson: I think https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2004762 could use a push
20:50:25 <dcavalca> for iptables, we'll see when we get to it
20:51:07 <tdawson> OK, I'll see if I can give things a nudge here or there.
20:51:39 <tdawson> I'm going to move on, so we have some open table time.
20:51:58 <dcavalca> thanks tdawson
20:52:00 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
20:53:07 <tdawson> I have one thing I wanted to bring up.  If I read things correct, we (EPEL) are currently a SIG.  I was wondering how people feel of making us a "working group"
20:53:36 <dcavalca> is there actually a difference? I thought they were the same thing tbh
20:53:37 <tdawson> I don't think it will make any real difference, but it will make our Documentation less confusing.
20:54:17 <nirik> we can't really be a working group unless EPEL is a Fedora Edition. ;)
20:54:25 <nirik> working groups are for editions...
20:54:34 <tdawson> Ah ... ok.
20:54:52 <nirik> but I guess... we could ask the council. Perhaps we should be a edition...
20:54:52 <smooge> I for one see us as a CentOS Edition
20:54:54 <dcavalca> is this something we should ask the council about for guidance?
20:55:31 <carlwgeorge> i like the idea of becoming a working group
20:55:33 <smooge> basically what nirik says is their feedback in the past
20:56:04 <smooge> Working Groups are for an Edition. An Edition is a bootable version of Fedora's Linux Operating System
20:56:48 <tdawson> Maybe Working Group isn't the correct thing that we want.  But we seem much more than a SIG.
20:57:05 <nirik> editions are the major, curated things that fedora linux produces... not just a collection of parts, but a workstation or a server
20:57:19 <nirik> I think we were at one point a subproject...
20:57:34 <smooge> we originally were a sub-project back in 2009
20:57:54 <nirik> I don't think it matters too much... although I think we should  get more help/notice/people since so many more people use epel than fedora. ;)
20:58:07 <smooge> that was when we had yearly elections and had to do weekly reports to the council
20:58:28 <tdawson> Oh ... if it means going back to that ... I'm ok staying a SIG.
20:58:44 <tdawson> I like how people can come and go as their lives change.
20:59:29 <smooge> I don't think those things exist anymore.. it was an earlier time.. :)
20:59:35 <tdawson> Ah, ok
21:00:01 <tdawson> I'll look into this a bit more  ... anything else before we end?
21:00:03 <smooge> if we become an equivalent to an edition it does come with more 'reporting' and such
21:00:47 <tdawson> Is that what we want?
21:01:04 * nirik doesn't, but if you all want that, go for it.
21:01:44 <tdawson> I don't really either.
21:02:19 <tdawson> OK, sounds like I'll just be quiet, and make sure the Docs are clear on the EPEL SIG vs the EPEL Packagers SIG
21:02:49 <smooge> I think we are at the place the overall group wants to be. Moving to a sub-project or a edition etc doesn't buy much
21:03:02 <tdawson> Yep
21:03:17 <dcavalca> tdawson: so https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/218 is the thread that I was trying to remember on this subject
21:03:24 <tdawson> Well, our time is up.  Thank you all for coming and for the good discussion.
21:03:35 <dcavalca> to me it sounds like something we could probably discuss with council if we felt the current structure didn't fit us well
21:03:42 <dcavalca> but I don't really feel strongly either way
21:04:24 <tdawson> I like our current model ... just not the SGI name, but I don't feel that strongly about it.  So ... I'm good.
21:04:39 <tdawson> Talk to ya'll next week.  Thank you for all you each do.
21:04:50 <pgreco> until next week, see ya!
21:05:00 <tdawson> #endmeeting