20:00:16 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2022-06-15)
20:00:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun 15 20:00:16 2022 UTC.
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20:00:16 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
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20:00:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2022-06-15)'
20:00:18 <tdawson> #meetingname epel
20:00:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
20:00:19 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson pgreco carlwgeorge salimma dcavalca
20:00:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge dcavalca nirik pgreco salimma tdawson
20:00:21 <tdawson> #topic aloha
20:00:22 <rsc> .hello robert
20:00:23 <zodbot> rsc: robert 'Robert Scheck' <redhat@linuxnetz.de>
20:00:23 <carlwgeorge> .hi
20:00:26 <zodbot> carlwgeorge: carlwgeorge 'Carl George' <carl@redhat.com>
20:00:27 <nirik> morning
20:00:35 <pgreco> .hi
20:00:36 <zodbot> pgreco: pgreco 'Pablo Sebastian Greco' <pablo@fliagreco.com.ar>
20:00:40 <dherrera> .hi
20:00:41 <zodbot> dherrera: dherrera 'Diego Herrera' <dherrera@redhat.com>
20:00:52 <tdawson> Hi rsc
20:00:55 <tdawson> Hi carlwgeorge
20:00:58 <gotmax[m]> .hellomynameis gotmax23
20:00:58 <davide> .hello dcavalca
20:00:58 <zodbot> gotmax[m]: gotmax23 'Maxwell G' <gotmax@e.email>
20:01:00 <tdawson> Morning nirik
20:01:02 <zodbot> davide: dcavalca 'Davide Cavalca' <dcavalca@fb.com>
20:01:10 * gotmax[m] likes to do everything in the most long-winded and complicated way possible
20:01:11 <tdawson> Hi pgreco
20:01:38 <tdawson> Hi dherrera
20:01:59 <tdawson> Why Hello There Maxwell G :)
20:02:06 <tdawson> Hi davide
20:02:43 <tdawson> Just so people know, salimma will not be here today.
20:04:32 <gotmax[m]> Hi tdawson :)
20:04:54 <tdawson> I'm not sure about smooge either.  I heard he was on vacation, but then he keeps popping up ... so maybe he'll be here.
20:05:12 <nirik> I think he's really on vacation now. ;)
20:05:24 <gotmax[m]> At least carlwgeorge is back
20:05:29 <tdawson> Yep
20:05:40 <tdawson> #topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
20:05:41 <tdawson> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
20:05:41 * carlwgeorge waves
20:06:08 <tdawson> I'll try to start with what I hope is the quicker of these, the ipv6 documentation
20:06:30 <tdawson> .epel 183
20:06:54 <tdawson> https://pagure.io/epel/issue/183
20:07:10 <pgreco> is anybody else having trouble with pagure.io?
20:07:13 <rsc> Yes.
20:07:18 <nirik> so I think the main thing they were complaining about here was the links to the epel-release-*latest
20:07:19 <tdawson> OK, so it's not just me.
20:07:20 <carlwgeorge> doesn't seem to be loading here either
20:07:23 * nirik looks
20:07:23 <gotmax[m]> Yup
20:08:09 <carlwgeorge> tldr from memory, their compute provider charges more to have ipv4 addresses, so they want to be able to complete the setup steps on an ipv6-only system
20:08:33 <tdawson> I have a preview of what the change would look like here - https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/epel-docs/public/epel/
20:08:34 <carlwgeorge> imo, an ipv6-only system is not realistic with the current state of the web
20:08:35 <gotmax[m]> Do we want to discuss something that doesn't involve pagure in the meantime?
20:08:43 <zodbot> tdawson: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
20:08:58 <rsc> carlwgeorge: IPv6-only works well, except when having a RHEL subscription ;-)
20:09:23 <carlwgeorge> and it doesn't work with the current epel-release links in our docs either
20:09:47 <rsc> I can not confirm this...IPv6-only system with Rocky Linux works well with EPEL at work
20:10:04 <carlwgeorge> there are plenty of examples of ipv4 only systems online, and often times the people running them have no control over when or if they'll get ipv6
20:10:19 <nirik> it should work fine after the initial epel-release package install
20:10:26 <tdawson> https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/epel-docs/public/epel/epel-faq/#ipv6_download_server
20:10:41 <tdawson> Correct, after the initial install, it should work.
20:10:43 <rsc> In the end, IPv6 is what should work, because it's the future. We are out of IPv4 addresses.
20:10:47 <carlwgeorge> the setup docs use dl.fpo, which is ipv4 only.  workaround is to get epel-release from an ipv6-capable mirror.
20:10:53 <gotmax[m]> Does https://download-ib01.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/ support ipv4 and ipv6? Can we just change the docs to use that?
20:11:32 <rsc> download-ib01.fedoraproject.org is at least dual-stacked in DNS.
20:11:38 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: That's what we did for the "hidden" links.   But I still have dl.fedoraproject.org for the links you can see.
20:11:39 <carlwgeorge> that's one option.  another is to leave the doc links as-is and just include an faq item about ipv6-only scenarios.
20:12:06 <rsc> Please do not make IPv6-only a 2nd-class citizen.
20:12:58 * nirik notes there's plans to add ipv6 at our main datacenter, but unclear when that will really happen. We are planning in sept timeframe, but lots could happen before then
20:13:00 <carlwgeorge> nirik: from the infra side, besides the ipv6 limitation, is there any functional difference between dl.fpo and download-ib01.fpo?
20:13:20 <tdawson> That's really why we brought this to the meeting.  As I said, I already changed the hidden links.   But what about the links that people see.
20:13:22 <tdawson> https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/epel-docs/public/epel/#_rhel_9
20:13:31 <nirik> yes. they are in completely different datacenters. dl is the real main mirror... download-ib01 syncs from it. (like any other mirror)
20:13:50 <rsc> nirik: "main datacenter" is the same one Red Hat uses? So that one why RHEL subscriptions can't use IPv6 when talking to RHSM?
20:13:56 <pgreco> right, but content should be the same
20:14:16 <gotmax[m]> Does it make sense change the links to download.fedoraproject.org? If that's round robin, wouldn't that put less load on Fedora servers and support ipv6?
20:14:24 <carlwgeorge> considering that and the shorter name, i'd prefer to leave the main links using dl.fpo and just wait for them to be ipv6-capable (rather than switching to download-ib01 and then later switching back).
20:14:39 <nirik> rsc: no idea. I thought all that stuff was in akami or something.
20:14:42 <tdawson> Does download.fedoraproject.org support ipv6?
20:15:18 <rsc> Yes.
20:15:29 <carlwgeorge> depends on if it round-robins you to an ipv6-capable mirror.
20:15:38 <carlwgeorge> i just tried it and it worked once and failed once.
20:15:39 <nirik> it's a redirect. It may or may not get you a mirror that has the exact thing you are looking for
20:15:47 <pgreco> also, this only affects rhel, right?
20:16:01 <pgreco> because alma, rocky and stream should have epel-release in extras
20:16:08 <tdawson> Ah ... so download.fedoraproject.org really isn't a solution.
20:16:49 <gotmax[m]> pgreco: I suppose
20:16:55 <pgreco> carlwgeorge: if client looks for AAAA record, it should always point to a valid mirror
20:17:32 <carlwgeorge> pgreco: i tried with `curl -IL6 download.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/epel-release-latest-9.noarch.rpm` and got a 200 and then `Couldn't connect to server`
20:18:18 <carlwgeorge> i think we should start with the smallest solution, an faq item about ipv6-only, and stall on doing any other changes to see if ipv6 gets added to dl.fpo in september.  if it gets delayed we can reconsider changing the main links.
20:18:51 <tdawson> There are plans to get dl.fpo an ipv6 address?
20:18:53 <rsc> pgreco: if download.fedoraproject.org returns ftp.uni-bayreuth.de here (legacy IP only), then it fails indeed ;-(
20:19:11 <carlwgeorge> tdawson: that's what nirik said a few minutes ago
20:19:44 <pgreco> ohh, you get the first ipv6 via aaaa, but you get redirected to an ipv4 only host
20:19:57 <tdawson> Ah ... I've got to change the colors in my IRC client, it was dark blue on black and I didn't see it.
20:20:01 <rsc> nirik: do you know if 209.132.178.16 (subscription.rhsm.redhat.com) is in the "main datacenter"? That's what I am pushing from a paying customer perspective (regarding IPv6)
20:20:02 <nirik> I don't think the redirect cares. it sends you to a random mirror
20:20:17 <pgreco> nirik, and I think that's the problem
20:20:22 <nirik> rsc: I think thats in the "old" phx2 datacenter
20:20:55 <gotmax[m]> Yeah, some of the time, you get redirected to an ipv6 capable one, but not always
20:22:30 <tdawson> So, I've lost track of which way we are leaning.  I know carlwgeorge wan't just the FAQ change and wait until the ipv6 change for dl.fpo ... what are others thinking?
20:22:59 <rsc> I would prefer a properly dual-stacked link
20:23:09 <carlwgeorge> pgreco: not exactly rhel-only, anyone who tries to set up via the dl.fpo link.  you're correct that stream and the rebuilds offer the alternative of having the release rpm in extras, which avoids the issue.
20:23:30 <tdawson> I think I should also change the FAQ saying that there is work in progress to get the main server an ipv6 address.
20:23:32 <pgreco> carlwgeorge: yeap, agreed
20:24:40 <pgreco> nirik, how hard would it be to redirect to ipv6-only nodes if the client connects via ipv6?
20:24:47 <carlwgeorge> september isn't that far away.  of course i'd love for everything to be ipv6 capable now but different infrastructures move at different paces.  not even all of the mirror network supports ipv6.
20:24:52 <pgreco> I know it's not the easiest thing to do
20:25:51 <nirik> pgreco: no idea.
20:25:56 <tdawson> I'm leaning towards putting download-ib01.fedoraproject.org in (in addition to the FAQ), and then change it when we get ipv6.  But I'm not strong on that, mainly because it's only three months.
20:26:47 <nirik> tdawson: I feel the same way. :)
20:27:01 <carlwgeorge> it doesn't hurt anything to use the download-ib01 links now, but i suspect we'll forget to switch them back
20:27:12 <pgreco> I think the main problem with putting fixed servers there is that people tend to keep ip forever
20:27:21 <nirik> pagure should be back (at least for now)
20:27:35 <tdawson> I can alway put a reminder on my calendar.
20:27:39 <pgreco> in the same note, I'd prefer to use dl6.fpo with a cname to that host
20:27:47 <pgreco> and then we can change the cname to whatever we want
20:27:57 <pgreco> without overloading download-ib01 for eternity
20:28:05 <gotmax[m]> tdawson: nirik said that it *could* happen in September
20:28:41 <nirik> yeah, thats a tenative plan... not some kind of hard deadline. ;(
20:28:46 <rsc> If nirik and I refer to the same data center, the IPv6 enablement is already moved around for years ;-(
20:29:18 <gotmax[m]> pgreco: The fixed URL would only be for initial install. The mirror network will be used afterwards.
20:29:27 <gotmax[m]> Fingers crossed ;)
20:29:54 <pgreco> gotmax[m]: download-ib01.fedoraproject.org you mean? isn't it a specific host?
20:30:08 <tdawson> Well, this is taking more time than I thought.  It's looking like a fairly even split.
20:31:06 <nirik> rsc: the new iad2 datacenter we have only been in for 2 years... phx2 is the old one and yeah, no ipv6 there for ages/yet
20:31:28 <gotmax[m]> I mean that the epel-release package is initially installed from that host
20:31:37 <tdawson> Can we get a vote (and gotmax[m] your opinion counts)   dl.fpo  is  +1  download-ib01.fedoraproject.org is -1
20:31:46 <pgreco> tdawson: my summary is this, I'm ok with adding a not for ipv6-only, I'm not sure I like the idea of using download-ib01.fedoraproject.org in that note, so I'd prefer to add a cname download6.fedoraproject.org to download-ib01.fedoraproject.org for flexibility
20:32:04 <rsc> nirik: (I am sorry, GSS/CEE doesn't provide me details, they just ask for understanding that it's not happening again)
20:32:24 <tdawson> pgreco: Ah ... a third option. :)
20:32:55 <pgreco> s/not for/note for/
20:33:02 <nirik> pgreco: -1 I think that would cause confusion...
20:33:26 <tdawson> I'm currently a -1
20:33:35 <gotmax[m]> I'm +1 for changing the URL
20:34:00 <carlwgeorge> tdawson: i think the way the voting is presented is confusing
20:34:15 <gotmax[m]> It's usually only used once per system and is not set in stone
20:34:17 <tdawson> Ya ... your right, that is confustion.
20:34:39 <carlwgeorge> gotmax[m]: but it does get copied and pasted all over the internet and into other documentation
20:34:54 <pgreco> tdawson: can you make a summary of the options?
20:35:03 <tdawson> I guess +1 for changing the URL, -1 for keeping it as dl.fpo ... that sounds better
20:36:15 <gotmax[m]> Sorry, I voted the wrong way
20:36:27 <carlwgeorge> -1 (and then revisit in september)
20:36:46 <tdawson> +1 Changing the URL to download-ib01.fedoraproject.org   ;   -1 for keeping the URL dl.fedoraproject.org
20:37:00 <davide> weak -1
20:37:15 <rsc> +1
20:37:45 <pgreco> if my cname option is not possible, I think I'd rather wait a bit (-1)
20:37:48 <tdawson> weak +1
20:38:29 <dherrera> -1
20:38:52 <tdawson> nirik: Am I right in that you are a +1 ?
20:39:24 <tdawson> gotmax[m]:  Which way were you thinking?
20:39:47 <gotmax[m]> +1 with the revised voting system :)
20:39:53 <gotmax[m]> Change to download-ib01.fedoraproject.org
20:40:00 * nirik is dealing with pagure.io still.
20:40:24 <nirik> I'm +1 to changing it to download-ib01 for now for the epel-release rpm direct downloads.
20:40:34 <tdawson> OK, so we have an even +4 and -4.   Ya!
20:40:59 <pgreco> even the weak votes are balanced
20:41:00 <nirik> well, so, we can just not change anything then. ;)
20:41:25 <carlwgeorge> the faq item about ipv6-only is still a good idea of course
20:41:27 <tdawson> I don't like having to be the tie breaker.  And even though I voted a +1, I'm going to go with the -1 side, because it's the closest thing to "don't change anything"
20:41:49 <tdawson> But I will put in the FAQ.
20:43:21 <tdawson> #info ipv6 documentation vote:  4 votes to change to download-ib01.fedoraproject.org, 4 votes to keep it at dl.fedoraproject.org - tdawson (chair) cast the tie breaker for keeping it at dl.fedoraproject.org
20:43:48 <tdawson> Well ... that took way longer than I expected.
20:44:27 <tdawson> Since salimma isn't here, I'm going to pass on the other issue on the list.
20:44:54 <tdawson> We can talk about it next week.
20:45:04 <gotmax[m]> Do we want to discuss https://pagure.io/epel/issue/185 or move on to old business?
20:45:45 <tdawson> Since nobody marked it with a "meeting", I thought nobody wanted to talk about it.
20:46:08 <gotmax[m]> Fine with me
20:46:20 <gotmax[m]> We don't have much time anyways
20:46:22 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
20:46:51 <tdawson> I don't have any old business ... since we've been putting most of that in the Issues ... any old business someone wants to bring up?
20:47:14 <gotmax[m]> I don't think we ever came to a final decision about the CRB thing. I'm not sure if there's anything else to say about it, though.
20:48:31 <tdawson> Oh ... I had a good compromise and I meant to send it in the email, but it's just been crazy lately.  I wanted to just have the enable-crb script installed, but not ran by %post or anything.
20:49:31 <tdawson> That way, people don't have to remember the whole command that it takes to enable crb ... anyway ... I'll try to get the email out right after this meeting.
20:49:39 <carlwgeorge> i like that idea, make turning on crb dead simple, easier to remember the command `enable-crb` than it is to copy/paste the enable command out of the docs.
20:50:17 <carlwgeorge> i also feel better about informational messages in a user command than from a scriptlet
20:50:41 <tdawson> Yep
20:50:43 <gotmax[m]> I still like the Recommends idea or smooge's metapackage idea. This makes it so things work properly for users who are used to running `yum install epel-release` on CentOS.
20:51:00 <gotmax[m]> The informational message idea also SGTM
20:51:42 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-7
20:51:43 <tdawson> CentOS 7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
20:52:05 <gotmax[m]> I will retire containerd this week
20:52:15 <tdawson> Ya!!
20:52:26 <gotmax[m]> *Just in EPEL 7
20:52:34 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: And I saw people did respond to your email, so people saw it.
20:52:48 <gotmax[m]> Yeah
20:53:01 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-8
20:53:02 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 8 goes EOL in 2024-05-31
20:53:15 <tdawson> Sorry, going quick, I do have an Open Floor item.
20:53:20 <gotmax[m]> Some Amazon Linux people replied to the initial email, but not my follow up
20:53:27 <gotmax[m]> Makes sense :)
20:53:50 <tdawson> Anything for epel8?
20:53:58 <gotmax[m]> I still need someone to look at my EPEL 8 epel-rpm-macros PR
20:54:17 <tdawson> Oh ... I thought that got merged
20:54:48 <Eighth_Doctor> tdawson: I just got here, but I wanted to say that your script idea is nice, just make sure it's namespaced correctly as a binary ("epel-enable-crb")
20:54:59 <gotmax[m]> tdawson: Not yet
20:54:59 <Eighth_Doctor> .hello ngompa
20:55:00 <zodbot> Eighth_Doctor: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
20:55:05 <tdawson> Hi Eighth_Doctor
20:55:08 <gotmax[m]> Hi Neal
20:55:53 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: I'd ask you to put the link to your pull request, but with pagure doing it's stuff right now ...
20:56:00 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-9
20:56:01 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 9 goes EOL in 2027-05-31
20:56:33 <tdawson> I'm making progress (sorta) on fedpkg.
20:56:58 <gotmax[m]> Good luck!
20:57:03 <tdawson> I've also been able to build a bodhi-client package ... but I don't know if that is wanted.
20:57:23 <tdawson> But having just the bodhi client make fedpkg usable, without the insane amount of python packages.
20:57:40 <tdawson> Anything else for epel9?
20:58:02 <pgreco> just an fyi, I added libfaketime to epel9
20:58:11 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
20:58:21 <tdawson> pgreco: Ya!!
20:58:29 <gotmax[m]> tdawson: I think the CPE people split the `bodhi` into separate components/SRPMs, so `bodhi-client` can now be branched independently.
20:58:48 <tdawson> I don't remember where, but I remember libfacetime is something that is always needed.
20:59:01 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: Oohh .. I didn't see that.
20:59:02 <gotmax[m]> s/the//
20:59:20 <pgreco> tdawson: good, I'm not the only one :P
20:59:26 <gotmax[m]> tdawson: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/bodhi/c/07877c748023da3963810cd8a2fc940eeb15c6d7?branch=rawhide
20:59:40 <tdawson> I do have one Open Floor item.   I will not be here next week.  Does anyone want to run the meeting next week?
21:00:14 <carlwgeorge> i would but i'll also not be here
21:00:19 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: awesome ... thanks for that link.
21:00:40 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: :)  Well, then I'll let you do it ....
21:00:54 <tdawson> Is there anyone who can subtiture for carlwgeorge hosting this meeting next week?
21:01:08 <tdawson> substitute
21:01:22 <pgreco> I'm not sure I'll be either :(
21:01:37 <tdawson> Are we ok canceling it?
21:01:46 <pgreco> I'm ok with it
21:01:48 <carlwgeorge> skipping a week would probably be fine
21:01:53 <pgreco> there's nothing pressing IIRC
21:02:35 <tdawson> Cool.  Then lets take a break next week.
21:02:39 <gotmax[m]> #link https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/epel-rpm-macros/pull-request/44
21:02:40 <gotmax[m]> That's the PR
21:02:50 <tdawson> #info no meeting next week.
21:02:52 <gotmax[m]> SGTM tdawson
21:02:53 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: Thank you
21:03:12 <gotmax[m]> Thanks for running the meeting!
21:03:19 <tdawson> Thank you all for coming.  Thank you for the good discussion, and Thank you for all the work you do for EPEL.
21:03:32 <tdawson> Talk to you in a couple weeks, if not sooner.
21:03:42 <tdawson> #endmeeting