20:00:11 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2022-08-10)
20:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 10 20:00:11 2022 UTC.
20:00:11 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
20:00:11 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
20:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2022-08-10)'
20:00:24 <rcallicotte> .hi
20:00:25 <zodbot> rcallicotte: rcallicotte 'Robby Callicotte' <rcallicotte@mailbox.org>
20:00:26 <tdawson> #meetingname epel
20:00:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
20:00:26 <jonathanspw> .hi
20:00:26 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson pgreco carlwgeorge salimma dcavalca dherrera
20:00:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge dcavalca dherrera nirik pgreco salimma tdawson
20:00:26 <tdawson> #topic aloha
20:00:28 <zodbot> jonathanspw: jonathanspw 'Jonathan Wright' <jonathan@almalinux.org>
20:00:34 <tdawson> Hi rcallicotte
20:00:37 <pgreco> .hi
20:00:38 <zodbot> pgreco: pgreco 'Pablo Sebastian Greco' <pablo@fliagreco.com.ar>
20:00:39 <tdawson> Hi jonathanspw
20:00:45 <tdawson> Hi pgreco
20:01:00 <orionp> .hi
20:01:01 <zodbot> orionp: Sorry, but user 'orionp' does not exist
20:01:08 <tdawson> Hi orionp
20:01:11 <salimma> .hi
20:01:12 <zodbot> salimma: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
20:01:13 <nirik> morning everyone
20:01:19 <tdawson> Hi salimma
20:01:23 <tdawson> Good morning nirik
20:01:26 <orionp> .hi orion
20:01:27 <zodbot> orionp: Sorry, but user 'orionp' does not exist
20:01:46 <jonathanspw> orionp: do ".hi <fasname"
20:01:52 <tdawson> orionp: I bet you really do exist ... but you can be here even if you don't
20:01:55 <dherrera> .hi
20:01:56 <zodbot> dherrera: dherrera 'Diego Herrera' <dherrera@redhat.com>
20:02:00 <rcallicotte> zodbot acting up?
20:02:08 <tdawson> Hi dherrera
20:02:08 <orionp> irc nick != fas name
20:02:20 <jonathanspw> yeah just pass your fas name as an arg
20:02:24 <pgreco> isn't that for .hello?
20:02:34 <carlwgeorge> .hi
20:02:34 <jonathanspw> one of them lol
20:02:34 <zodbot> carlwgeorge: carlwgeorge 'Carl George' <carl@redhat.com>
20:02:42 <orionp> .hello orion
20:02:42 <tdawson> Hi carlwgeorge
20:02:42 <zodbot> orionp: orion 'Orion Poplawski' <orion@nwra.com>
20:04:43 <gotmax[m]> .hellomynameis gotmax23
20:04:44 <zodbot> gotmax[m]: gotmax23 'Maxwell G' <gotmax@e.email>
20:05:06 <tdawson> #topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
20:05:08 <tdawson> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
20:05:32 <tdawson> We still have the retiring packages issue there
20:05:41 <tdawson> .epel 39
20:05:43 <zodbot> tdawson: Issue #39: Retiring EPEL Packages (End of lifing CEPH in EL7 and process improvement) - epel - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/epel/issue/39
20:06:04 <tdawson> Thanks to gotmax[m] for sending the email.
20:06:42 <tdawson> Last week our discussion basically ended with needing something similar to Fedora's Orphaning
20:06:46 <gotmax[m]> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/epel-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/FUAG6FG7DLSIGP2IUN7YAMEMIODE6AKR/
20:07:02 <tdawson> Which is why he sent the email.
20:07:34 <gotmax[m]> nirik was the only one who chimed in. Does anybody else have thoughts here?
20:07:45 <tdawson> I've read and thought about that several times, and I don't have any ideas other than nirik's ... which involves releng doing a bunch of work.
20:08:21 <gotmax[m]> I guess the one thing that we have to keep in mind is that making it harder to orphan or retire packages incentivizes people to keep unmaintained packages.
20:08:22 <nirik> yeah, dunno. was hoping someone else would come up with something. ;)
20:08:43 <gotmax[m]> What does releng have to do here?
20:09:01 <nirik> sure, but also there's likely a lot of nonresponsive people maintaining packages, so not sure it changes much there.
20:09:35 <tdawson> releng could (in theory) create something similar to Fedora's Orphan system.
20:10:15 <gotmax[m]> My point was that creating an issue tracker and retiring packages doesn't require releng
20:10:29 <tdawson> That's true.
20:10:29 <gotmax[m]> Anybody can do the former and any provenpackager can do the latter
20:10:40 * nirik nods.
20:10:48 <nirik> less on releng the better probibly
20:10:51 <salimma> until we can easily change the EPEL bz assignee (or even better, have it per branch) to match reality, it's hard to even know who is the actual epel maintainer
20:10:58 <rcallicotte> I think there are a lot of folks that fire off a few epel builds, then disappear for a couple years.
20:10:58 <salimma> short of just basing it on who makes bodhi updates
20:11:29 <gotmax[m]> I opened https://pagure.io/pagure-dist-git/issue/153
20:11:42 <salimma> and yeah, there's that too, people who just build EPEL then run
20:11:44 <gotmax[m]> To allow any admin or admin group member to set the bugzilla assignee
20:12:04 <rcallicotte> salimma: bodhi would be a really good place to base the activity on
20:12:20 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: Ya!! ... cuz that's frustrating when I'm the only active admin, but I can't set the bugzilla to myself.
20:13:00 <nirik> gotmax[m]: thanks for that.
20:13:05 <gotmax[m]> pagure development is a bit dead these days, but it's only a couple lines that would need to be written/changed
20:13:14 <nirik> (although I am unsure who or when that might get worked on)
20:13:26 <carlwgeorge> the migration from pkgdb to pagure kinda wiped out the idea of per-branch maintainers
20:13:40 <music[m]> gotmax, add me to the chorus of thanks for stepping up to file that bug
20:13:52 <nirik> well, really the 'stream branches' that added about then did.
20:13:56 <gotmax[m]> Well, filing the bug is the easy part...
20:14:32 <nirik> if someone can do a PR it would be even nicer. ;)
20:14:55 <carlwgeorge> what's our minimum viable policy here?  write down that if a maintainer isn't interested in epel bug reports, they can reassign the bug to a specific assign for people to browse and help where they can?
20:15:16 <rsc> Hi! Late again, sorry :-(
20:15:27 <tdawson> Hi rsc
20:15:35 <salimma> somehow I feel like piling on more EPEL specific policies will just annoy Fedora maintainers even more
20:15:52 <salimma> (by Fedora I mean Fedora maintainers not interested in EPEL)
20:16:12 <carlwgeorge> in this case it would be an escape hatch for those that don't want to deal with epel bugs for whatever reason
20:16:34 <gotmax[m]> I somewhat agree in generall, but the EPEL policies regarding retirement are actually more lax than Fedora.
20:16:40 <carlwgeorge> sometimes maintainers don't remember who volunteered to handle the epel branch, or the maintainer that volunteered later removed themselves
20:17:28 <nirik> in some cases the fedora maintainer might want to take it back... in others they don't want it at all
20:18:24 <carlwgeorge> how hard is it to undo retired epel branches?
20:18:41 <tdawson> So ... let's say we do gotmax[m]'s idea, a bugzilla tracker that people put a bug on that they want to "orphan" a package.   If we set that up ... we could look at it once a month / week and give a summary.
20:19:25 <gotmax[m]> I was thinking a Pagure repository, but I guess Bugzilla is fine
20:19:29 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: It's as simple as creating a releng ticket requesting it be un-retired .... oh ... you mean for releng. :)
20:19:57 <nirik> https://docs.pagure.org/releng/sop_unretire.html
20:20:32 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: So they would be pagure issues?  ... that might work.  probrubly easier once it's setup.
20:21:17 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: You could also have a nice README at the beginning of the pagure repo ... so ya ... that does sound good.
20:23:26 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: Now that I understand what is going on in your head ... should we continue the conversation here, or move it back to the email?
20:23:28 * nirik nods
20:24:31 <tdawson> Unless anyone has anything else, I'm going to move this back to the email ... and I'll even participate this time. :)
20:24:52 <nirik> +1
20:25:02 <tdawson> OK, moving on.
20:25:09 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
20:25:30 <gotmax[m]> Sorry, I got pulled away for a minute
20:26:11 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: Not a problem.  Are you ok with us moving it back to email, and I'll actually participate this time.
20:26:25 <gotmax[m]> Sure
20:26:45 <gotmax[m]> Michel Alexandre Salim 🎩: Can you give me privs to create a repo under the epel namespace?
20:26:54 <salimma> gotmax (He/Him): let me see
20:27:30 <tdawson> For old business, I've only got being able to add epel-packaging-sig as the bugzilla default ... which I know we finished that up last week.
20:27:44 <salimma> trying to figure out how to edit it. because there's only one repo inside it, trying to go to epel... just take me back to that repo
20:27:45 <tdawson> Do we really not have any other old business, or did I miss something.
20:28:03 <gotmax[m]> I don't think so
20:28:04 <carlwgeorge> if we brought up the epel survey last week, i guess it's old business that it's open now
20:28:18 <carlwgeorge> if we haven't brought it up yet i can save it for open floor
20:28:19 <tdawson> Off in the distance ... I can hear smooge say " .... epel 5 .... it's really old business ..."
20:28:45 <gotmax[m]> Are you still collecting responses?
20:28:50 <salimma> gotmax (He/Him): want to just try and see what breaks?
20:28:54 <tdawson> Oh, I think we did talk about it.   carlwgeorge go for it.
20:29:37 <carlwgeorge> fedora is running a survey of epel users and contributors.  it launched at nest and will be open till the end of the month.  https://tinyurl.com/epelsurvey2022
20:30:01 <gotmax[m]> #info fedora is running a survey of epel users and contributors.  it launched at nest and will be open till the end of the month.  https://tinyurl.com/epelsurvey2022
20:30:15 <gotmax[m]> :)
20:30:22 <carlwgeorge> good call
20:30:40 <gotmax[m]> Michel Alexandre Salim 🎩: Try adding me under https://pagure.io/group/epel
20:31:21 <salimma> gotmax (He/Him): aha, thanks. it's so not obvious how to get there
20:31:22 <pgreco> 5 minute break to complete the survey...
20:31:27 <pgreco> :D
20:31:36 <tdawson> :)
20:31:47 <tdawson> #info fedora is running a survey of epel users and contributors.  it launched at nest and will be open till the end of the month.  https://tinyurl.com/epelsurvey2022
20:32:14 <gotmax[m]> Did you mean to #info it a second time?
20:32:14 <salimma> gotmax (He/Him): added
20:32:23 <tdawson> Hm ... I thought zotbot told you if something got set to info ... I guess we'll assume it's there ... and now double.
20:32:40 <gotmax[m]> You want me to undo it?
20:32:47 <tdawson> gotmax[m]: No ... it's fine.
20:33:13 <tdawson> Anyway ... after everyone's done with the survey ... did we have any other old business?
20:34:20 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-7
20:34:22 <tdawson> CentOS 7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
20:35:30 <tdawson> The only epel7 thing I have is that I fixed a epel7 package with a CVE ... but that's not really anything for the meeting ... just the only epel7 thing I've seen this past week.
20:36:07 <tdawson> Anything else for epel7?  Or did I not give enough time for the survey.
20:37:01 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-8
20:37:02 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 8 goes EOL in 2024-05-31
20:37:06 <carlwgeorge> remember the survey is open till the end of the month, no one has to do it this second :D
20:37:26 <tdawson> Yep
20:37:35 <tdawson> Anything for epel8?
20:38:03 <gotmax[m]> There was some discussion about the default modules issue on centos-devel
20:38:08 <gotmax[m]> Turns out they are aware about it
20:38:32 <gotmax[m]> But that doesn't change the fact that we're still blocked on issues in MBS
20:38:40 <tdawson> Yep ... sorta drives me nuts
20:39:12 <tdawson> I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, but modularity did not turn out the way it was originally planned.
20:39:31 * gotmax[m] has to walk out, but I should be able to pick up on my phone
20:39:39 <tdawson> Anyway ... anything non-modular for epel8?
20:40:10 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-9
20:40:11 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 9 goes EOL in 2027-05-31
20:40:29 <carlwgeorge> oh that reminds me, the overlapping nginx modules got retired from epel8-modular
20:40:45 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: Ah ... cool.
20:41:01 <nirik> but one came back I think...
20:41:09 <carlwgeorge> also most of the uninstallable nextcloud modules, but a new one got added so i reopened that releng issue to get to removed as well.  still not sure how it got built because i disabled the epel8 stream expansion for it.
20:41:22 <nirik> oh no, that was nextcloud
20:41:29 <nirik> yeah
20:41:44 <carlwgeorge> yeah nginx and nextcloud, two n packages had open issues at the same time
20:42:07 <carlwgeorge> for epel9, i did a rebuild this morning of bloaty due to an unannounced re2 soname bump
20:42:22 <tdawson> Those blasted packages that start with n
20:42:24 <carlwgeorge> dherrera noticed it and i used my proven packager to do the build
20:43:14 <tdawson> Talking of packages ... all the updated kde packages for epel8-next and epel9-next are in stable, including all the bugfixes ... so if you are having bugs on those, let me know.
20:43:25 <tdawson> I should actually put that in an email instead of hear.
20:43:37 <nirik> looks like lcts did the nextcloud 21 build...
20:43:56 <tdawson> It doesn't sound like we have any epel9 stuff ... and there are some open-floor stuff ... so I'll move to there.
20:44:04 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
20:44:38 <tdawson> Next week, carlwgeorge and I will not be available for the meeting due to the CentOS Dojo
20:44:57 <tdawson> Does someone want to run the meeting?  Or do people want to cancel for a week?
20:44:58 <nirik> I may also not be around
20:45:37 <rcallicotte> I'm ok with canceling one week
20:45:44 <gotmax[m]> I created https://pagure.io/epel/package-orphan-requests. I guess I will create an issue template and README later.
20:45:51 <pgreco> yeah, seems like the right thing to do
20:45:56 <gotmax[m]> Note sure if there's anything else we want to discuss
20:46:01 <gotmax[m]> about thatt
20:46:07 <pgreco> though I'd like to join you guys for the dojo
20:46:19 <rcallicotte> will there be a live-stream?
20:46:36 <tdawson> I think it will be live streamed ... but it definatly wil also be live.
20:47:21 <tdawson> pgreco: Will you be there in Boston?
20:48:27 <pgreco> tdawson: wanted to be, was planning on doing, not sure if I'll be able to
20:48:33 <pgreco> *going
20:48:56 <tdawson> So, different subject, and this comes from Matt's "State of Fedora" talk at Nest.  What do we think about moving various things to the Fedora Discord?
20:49:00 <nirik> seeing people in person again... crazy concept. ;)
20:49:13 <tdawson> pgreco: If you do make it, it would be great to physically see you.
20:49:30 <pgreco> tdawson: yeah!, I'll ping you if I end up going
20:49:35 <tdawson> Cool
20:49:39 <carlwgeorge> depends on the thing i guess, but generally i'm in favor (the discord idea)
20:49:48 <rcallicotte> tdawson: if there is an IRC bridge...
20:49:56 <tdawson> I'm not saying I want to move to Discord ... I just don't know how others feel about it.
20:50:01 <carlwgeorge> oh wait i think i'm confusing discord and discourse
20:50:19 <jonathanspw> Fedora has a discord?
20:50:22 <jonathanspw> oh lol
20:50:25 <tdawson> *laughs* ... is there a Discord / IRC bridge?
20:50:34 <jonathanspw> matterbridge can do it
20:50:36 <salimma> tdawson: do you mean discord or discourse?
20:50:51 <pgreco> tdawson: the bridge can be done, don't know if it is for fedora
20:51:28 <salimma> Pine64 bridges Discord, Telegram, and Matrix... tbh it just makes it a mess, the messages end up being tagged by where they come from
20:51:36 <nirik> I am pretty sure mattdm was talking about discourse... ie, discussion.fedoraproject.org
20:52:24 <tdawson> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/
20:52:41 <tdawson> Ha ... well ... you can see how much I use it. :)
20:53:06 <nirik> I'm happy to try, but I'm not sure how well it will work...
20:53:15 <salimma> carlwgeorge: so I guess you and Troy cancel each other :)
20:53:16 <rcallicotte> does the chatbot post meeting info there?
20:53:43 <nirik> I've been trying to go there and read things frequently, but it's just a lot harder than email thats pushed to me and in with all the other things.
20:54:00 <rcallicotte> Looks like the docs folks drop their meeting info there
20:54:27 <carlwgeorge> fun fact, it looks like this channel is already bridged to fedora's discord
20:54:29 <salimma> there's a way to get discourse to email you, and treat it as a mailing list, but from what I hear it's like using IRC when most people in the room are on Matrix -- you end up missing some features
20:54:49 <rcallicotte> hmm
20:54:51 <nirik> discord is the non free thingie... it's not official. ;)
20:55:00 <salimma> I quite like Discourse except I'm apparently a graybeard who likes email threading, and Discourse doesn't do that
20:55:13 <nirik> salimma: yeah. I use that too... it's... ok.
20:55:17 <rcallicotte> yeah I don't like that aspect of discord
20:55:33 <rcallicotte> the non-free**
20:56:04 <rcallicotte> I also prefer email threads in my fancy kmail client
20:56:14 <dherrera> carlwgeorge: there is a mirror, but you can't chat from there
20:56:46 <nirik> all the old folks have built up email filtering and client setups they like, so they prefer email. People who haven't setup all that probibly prefer discourse...
20:57:16 <tdawson> So ... it's sounding like most of us prefer email ... though several are on Fedora Discussion
20:58:24 <tdawson> I was mainly curious ... it sounds like there's no rush for us to move anything / everything over there.
20:59:01 <tdawson> Anything else before we close the meeting?
20:59:27 <rcallicotte> nothing from me
20:59:39 <pgreco> see you guys in 2 weeks!
20:59:54 <tdawson> Thank you all for coming and for the good discussion.
21:00:04 <nirik> thanks everyone.
21:00:05 <tdawson> And thank you all for all your work for the EPEL community.
21:00:19 <rcallicotte> thanks!
21:00:20 <tdawson> Talk to ya'll in two weeks, unless I physically see you  ... then I'll talk to you then.
21:00:28 <tdawson> #endmeeting