21:00:21 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2022-11-09)
21:00:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov  9 21:00:21 2022 UTC.
21:00:21 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
21:00:21 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
21:00:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:00:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2022-11-09)'
21:00:22 <tdawson> #meetingname epel
21:00:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
21:00:24 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson pgreco carlwgeorge salimma dcavalca dherrera gotmax[m] smooge
21:00:24 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge dcavalca dherrera gotmax[m] nirik pgreco salimma smooge tdawson
21:00:25 <tdawson> #topic aloha
21:00:28 <rcallicotte> .hi
21:00:29 <zodbot> rcallicotte: rcallicotte 'Robby Callicotte' <rcallicotte@mailbox.org>
21:00:29 <carlwgeorge> .hi
21:00:30 <smooge> hello
21:00:35 <zodbot> carlwgeorge: carlwgeorge 'Carl George' <carl@redhat.com>
21:00:40 <tdawson> Hi rcallicotte and carlwgeorge
21:00:46 <tdawson> Hello smooge
21:01:07 <nirik> morning
21:01:10 * gotmax[m] is running late
21:01:15 <tdawson> It sounds like davide and pgreco won't be with us today.
21:01:22 <tdawson> Morning nirik
21:01:24 <tdawson> Hi gotmax[m]
21:01:52 <pgreco> tdawson: I'm here, but just realized that I fell asleep looking at the monitor ;)
21:02:06 <tdawson> *laughs*
21:02:07 <michel-slm> .hi salimma
21:02:08 <zodbot> michel-slm: Sorry, but user 'michel-slm' does not exist
21:02:14 <michel-slm> .hello salimma
21:02:15 <zodbot> michel-slm: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
21:02:17 <pgreco> .hi
21:02:18 <zodbot> pgreco: pgreco 'Pablo Sebastian Greco' <pablo@fliagreco.com.ar>
21:02:23 <tdawson> Hi pgreco and michel-slm
21:04:24 <gotmax[m]> .hello gotmax23
21:04:25 <zodbot> gotmax[m]: gotmax23 'Maxwell G' <gotmax@e.email>
21:05:11 <tdawson> #topic End Of Life (EOL)
21:05:13 <tdawson> RHEL 7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
21:05:14 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 8 goes EOL in 2024-05-31
21:05:16 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 9 goes EOL in 2027-05-31
21:05:56 <tdawson> It's still sorta wierd to look at the epel7 graphs knowing that it's going EOL in a year and a half.
21:06:03 <smooge> you have 599 shopping days until RHEL 7 is gone
21:06:26 <smooge> EL6 was just was weird.. going up a year after it was EOL
21:06:35 <smooge> just as weird
21:06:35 <tdawson> Since we still have a sizable epel5 base ... I wonder how long epel7 will last.
21:06:43 <smooge> 2038
21:06:44 <carlwgeorge> the real question is how many people will take mine and other's advice and skip straight to 9 instead of dealing with 8
21:06:55 * gotmax[m] shudders
21:06:59 <dherrera> .hi
21:07:00 <zodbot> dherrera: dherrera 'Diego Herrera' <dherrera@redhat.com>
21:07:20 <tdawson> Hi dherrera
21:07:28 <rcallicotte> carlwgeorge: I'm pushing for just that in my $DAYJOB
21:07:45 <tdawson> #topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
21:07:47 <tdawson> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
21:07:50 <michel-slm> carlwgeorge: that's what I'm advising too
21:08:21 <tdawson> Ya, if you're still on 7, doing the jump to 9 just makes sense .... anyway ...
21:08:30 <carlwgeorge> in the words of Evolution, version 8 of operating systems is cursed
21:08:39 <tdawson> It looks like we are down to just one meeting issue not blocked.
21:08:40 <tdawson> :)
21:08:47 <tdawson> .epel 208
21:08:48 <zodbot> tdawson: Issue #208: Retired packages not being removed from epel9 repos? - epel - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/epel/issue/208
21:09:02 <tdawson> michel-slm: Are you free enough to explain that for us?
21:09:17 <michel-slm> Hi! Hopefully
21:09:21 <nirik> I am not sure whats happening here... I asked humaton to look into it... It could be a bug in our automation.
21:09:27 <michel-slm> It's something fabio flagged
21:09:55 <michel-slm> Basically he did fedpkg retire, just like on Fedora branches
21:10:57 <tdawson> Oh ... I thought maybe he did something different ..
21:11:30 * tdawson looks at the two -epel packages he just retired when rhel 8.7 came out.
21:12:29 <tdawson> Oh shoot ... it did the same thing there :(
21:12:50 <michel-slm> We can probably ask for details in the task . Or I can see if he's around
21:13:36 <tdawson> I'm thinking this needs to be a releng ticket ... and maybe we just track it here.
21:13:50 <michel-slm> tdawson: we have repro then
21:14:14 <nirik> releng is already looking into it.
21:14:22 <nirik> but I guess if you like you can file another ticket
21:14:51 <tdawson> nirik: Whatever works ... if they are looking at this ticket, I guess that's ok.
21:15:12 <rsc> .hello robert
21:15:13 <zodbot> rsc: robert 'Robert Scheck' <redhat@linuxnetz.de>
21:15:19 <tdawson> Hello rsc
21:15:24 <nirik> as noted: nirik> I am not sure whats happening here... I asked humaton to look into it... It could be a bug in our automation.
21:16:15 <gotmax[m]> This is handled by a toddler?
21:16:23 <tdawson> nirik: OK, just let humaton know that this isn't a one time thing.  It looks like it's everytime a package is retired in epel.
21:16:35 <nirik> yes and a script that runs before composes
21:16:47 <nirik> please update the ticket with that. ;)
21:17:04 <tdawson> Will do
21:17:32 <tdawson> I haven't figured out a good way to search for this, but I'm sure that would be helpful.
21:18:49 <tdawson> Anything else we can / should do for this ticket?
21:19:18 <nirik> not that I can think of
21:19:40 <tdawson> OK.  Thanks michel-slm for finding that, and thanks nirik for looking into it.
21:20:06 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
21:20:28 <tdawson> I don't really have any old business that wasn't finished up this past week.
21:20:46 <tdawson> Is there any old business anyone wanted to bring up?
21:20:47 <carlwgeorge> i finished up the thing to talk about bz components in the epel request guide
21:20:55 <carlwgeorge> https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/207 is now live in the docs
21:21:05 <michel-slm> I used ebranch to help get 189 rust related packages into epel9 https://floss.social/@michel_slm/109312231824853415
21:21:15 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: Thank you for that.
21:21:32 <michel-slm> There's enough new features I'll try to cut a new release soon
21:21:36 <tdawson> michel-slm: very nice.
21:21:49 <carlwgeorge> michel-slm: fun fact, that put us over 10k rpms in epel9
21:21:58 <michel-slm> Noice
21:21:58 <rcallicotte> nice!
21:22:07 <tdawson> cool
21:22:31 <carlwgeorge> for reference, epel7 is 13.7k and epel8 is 9.4k
21:22:40 <michel-slm> After the last update lands I can look at rav1e
21:22:50 <michel-slm> That will unblock ffmpeg
21:23:11 <tdawson> I don't publish the numbers, but that also jumped michel-slm from #13 to #4 in the epel9 packagers with the most packages.
21:23:15 <michel-slm> Oh nice. Since 7 was a special case where we mass branch things
21:23:16 <carlwgeorge> those numbers are rpms, not srpms.  once the srpms for epel9 overtakes epel8 i plan to make more noise about it.
21:23:26 <michel-slm> tdawson: uh oh haha
21:23:40 <tdawson> By the end of the week you should be #3
21:23:42 <michel-slm> Those are unlucky numbers in two cultures I'm associated with haha
21:23:43 <carlwgeorge> that's the trick to get on the leaderboard, work on kde or rust stuff
21:23:49 <rcallicotte> lol
21:23:50 <tdawson> *laughs*
21:23:54 <smooge> php used to be it
21:24:02 <tdawson> Or ghc
21:24:04 <smooge> and perl before that
21:24:30 * nirik doesn't think this is something you really want to win...
21:24:42 <tdawson> Looking at the top 5 it goes KDE, ghc, perl, rust
21:25:10 <tdawson> *laughs*  I agree with nirik.  That's why I don't publish the results.  It's really something I don't want people competing for.
21:26:24 <tdawson> Oh, I did a pull request on the retirement policy.  It's gotten merged, and it's here - https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-policy-retirement/
21:27:55 <michel-slm> Nice!
21:29:26 <tdawson> Hmm ... unless open floor has stuff, this is going to be a short meeting ...
21:29:39 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
21:29:49 <carlwgeorge> i've got an open floor item
21:30:01 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: go for it
21:30:17 <carlwgeorge> i'm working on a proposal for epel 10 branching.  it's not finished yet, but i wanted to give y'all an early heads up.
21:31:04 <carlwgeorge> short version is i'd like for epel 10 to have minor version branches to make targeting centos and rhel more natural, and somewhat mirror what we do in fedora branching off of rawhide
21:31:29 <carlwgeorge> for the longer version, keep an eye out on the mailing list for the actual proposal
21:32:17 <carlwgeorge> i'm actually going  to try writing up the full proposal in fedora discourse so i can use markdown tables, and have the mailing list post just be a summary and link to the discourse thread
21:32:28 <michel-slm> carlwgeorge++
21:32:28 <zodbot> michel-slm: Karma for carlwgeorge changed to 2 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
21:32:48 <rcallicotte> right on!
21:32:50 <tdawson> carlwgeorge: Thanks for looking at the long term.
21:33:13 <carlwgeorge> obviously this will be a huge shift in how we've traditionally done epel branching, but i think there are significant benefits if we can pull off such a shift.  epel10 may sound far away but it really isn't, hence me starting the planning now.
21:33:38 <michel-slm> This will be less confusing esp for those that want to target stream
21:33:45 * nirik isn't sure it will be worth all the trouble, but we will see.
21:34:06 <michel-slm> Speaking of rust, some packages now can't be updated until stream becomes. 9.1
21:34:08 <carlwgeorge> i expect the centos 10 launch announcement will come in 2024, but a little birdie told me there may be the first c10 composes in 2023
21:34:36 <smooge> i would stop believing what you read on twitter
21:34:37 <tdawson> michel-slm: Don't you mean 9.2?  I thought stream already was 9.1
21:34:42 <rcallicotte> Elon said that??
21:34:50 <michel-slm> Stream has the new rust
21:35:10 <michel-slm> But we dont really want to build specially for next
21:36:10 <michel-slm> So in the new c10 world this will hopefully be a non issue
21:36:40 <carlwgeorge> that's something i'm hoping to tackle in my proposal.  rather than doing separate next builds and think about when you have to do it, you would just be able to do the build in the leading branch against centos, then reuse the build when the time comes for the next rhel minor release.
21:37:08 <carlwgeorge> i'll address it more in the full proposal, but if it's not clear this new proposal would obsolete epel-next
21:37:36 <carlwgeorge> well, not the existing ones, but there wouldn't be an epel10-next if we do it this way
21:39:21 <tdawson> I think this will be a good discussion on the mailling list.
21:39:44 <gotmax[m]> Yeah, this sounds intriguing!
21:40:02 <tdawson> I don't mean that in a bad way, I think this will bring up alot of discussions and different ideas.
21:40:06 <rcallicotte> I'm excited for it
21:40:30 <carlwgeorge> i definitely want feedback and don't want anyone to feel i'm forcing the idea through
21:40:34 <smooge> i have an open floor item
21:40:39 <tdawson> smooge: go for it
21:41:25 <smooge> I was cleaning up disk space on Fedora Infrastructure today and found that there is a large block of 'old' rpms under /mnt/fedora/app/fi-repo/./centos/centos-9-stream-stage at around 600 GB
21:41:58 <smooge> nirik, said it was for the bringup of EPEL before RHEL-9 came out while regular stream marched ahead. is it ok to nuke this?
21:42:12 <carlwgeorge> yup
21:42:22 <smooge> ok will do so.
21:42:35 <smooge> after i get a further ok from nirik tomorrow
21:42:39 <nirik> yeah, I guess so.
21:42:51 <carlwgeorge> that was us faking 9.0 before 9.0 existed, so it can definitely be deleted since we have actual 9.0
21:43:22 <smooge> next thing. I changed the number of back ups fo the grobisplitter directories. We had 8TB of saved data in centos/stream8-kojitarget for over 30 days
21:44:00 <smooge> I have a PR to only keep around 14-21 days of those older targets
21:44:08 <nirik> hopefully we never need to look at a package that was in the buildroot for that time... but I think the chances of that are small.
21:46:01 <tdawson> Any other open floor items?
21:46:01 <smooge> i am going to let a night to sleep on it before initiating rm. We have been removing older files as it was for centos-stream since next got started
21:46:26 <smooge> but there may be a 'no better not'
21:47:02 <smooge> that was all from me
21:47:11 <tdawson> I often do that, sleep on removing a large thing, and then I wake up in the morning, totally forgetting the whole thing for another month.
21:47:13 <rcallicotte> always good to "ls" twice and "rm" once :)
21:48:23 <tdawson> If there isn't anything else, I'm ok with ending early.
21:49:04 <tdawson> Thank you all for your work on EPEL and the good discussions today.
21:49:12 <tdawson> Talk to you all next week, if not sooner.
21:49:20 <tdawson> #endmeeting