21:02:37 <carlwgeorge> #startmeeting EPEL (2023-01-04)
21:02:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan  4 21:02:37 2023 UTC.
21:02:38 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
21:02:38 <zodbot> The chair is carlwgeorge. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
21:02:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:02:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2023-01-04)'
21:02:45 <carlwgeorge> #meetingname epel
21:02:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
21:03:08 <smooge> morning
21:03:14 <carlwgeorge> #chair carlwgeorge smooge
21:03:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge smooge
21:03:29 <carlwgeorge> #topic howdy
21:03:40 <davide> .hello dcavalca
21:03:42 <zodbot> davide: dcavalca 'Davide Cavalca' <davide@cavalca.name>
21:03:46 <dherrera> .hi
21:03:47 <zodbot> dherrera: dherrera 'Diego Herrera' <dherrera@redhat.com>
21:03:54 <carlwgeorge> #chair davide dherrera
21:03:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge davide dherrera smooge
21:06:25 <pgreco> .hi
21:06:26 <zodbot> pgreco: pgreco 'Pablo Sebastian Greco' <pablo@fliagreco.com.ar>
21:06:32 <carlwgeorge> #chair pgreco
21:06:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge davide dherrera pgreco smooge
21:06:34 <pgreco> half here, half in a work meeting
21:06:44 <smooge> no problem.. i think we are all half here
21:06:59 <carlwgeorge> yeah this close after holidays, no one is at full speed yet
21:07:33 <carlwgeorge> #topic End Of Life (EOL) dates
21:07:47 <carlwgeorge> RHEL 7 (and EPEL 7) will go EOL on 2024-06-30
21:08:02 <carlwgeorge> CentOS Stream 8 (and EPEL 8 Next) goes EOL on 2024-05-31
21:08:07 <smooge> 1 year and 6 months. Prepare for the DOOOM
21:08:16 <carlwgeorge> CentOS Stream 9 (and EPEL 9 Next) goes EOL on 2027-05-31
21:09:04 <carlwgeorge> #topic EPEL Issues
21:09:24 <carlwgeorge> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
21:09:28 <salimma> .hello
21:09:28 <zodbot> salimma: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
21:09:36 <salimma> .hi
21:09:37 <zodbot> salimma: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
21:09:45 <carlwgeorge> #chair salimma
21:09:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge davide dherrera pgreco salimma smooge
21:10:09 <carlwgeorge> nothing open tagged for the meeting
21:10:22 <carlwgeorge> did anyone want to talk about any other open issues on the tracker?
21:10:24 <smooge> bring out your dead issues
21:10:44 <smooge> i had one thing from over break which isn't an issue but now a bugzilla
21:11:10 <salimma> go for it
21:11:19 <smooge> someone wanted to know if OpenVPN would be updated in EPEL to 2.5 since the 2.4.x goes EOL in a couple of months
21:11:29 <smooge> in EPEL-7/EPEL-8
21:12:00 <smooge> I opened a bugzilla since the person asking was having issues getting an account and figured it would come up to the commitee possibly as a big change
21:12:41 <smooge> that was it
21:12:41 <salimma> I seem to recall this conversation, was it in IRC or on the mailing list?
21:12:47 <smooge> IRC in #epel
21:13:27 <smooge> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2157946
21:13:30 <salimma> for reference this is the upstream list of changes https://github.com/OpenVPN/openvpn/blob/master/Changes.rst#overview-of-changes-in-25
21:13:46 <carlwgeorge> in a perfect world 2.4 to 2.5 would be backwards compatible new features only, but no telling if the upstream operates that way
21:14:40 <salimma> doesn't look as bad as some of the crypto changes in EL9, but I guess it's a stable release. I'd say if we announce now it'll be fine?
21:15:21 <smooge> yeah I have not heard from any of the people on the ticket but it is still deep vacay time so going to let it sit for a week ro so and then ping in the ticket
21:15:39 <smooge> after that bring up on the list and see what people wnat to do
21:15:39 <carlwgeorge> yeah lets wait for the maintainer(s) to weigh in
21:16:33 <rsc> .hello robert
21:16:34 <zodbot> rsc: robert 'Robert Scheck' <redhat@linuxnetz.de>
21:16:41 <carlwgeorge> #chair rsc
21:16:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge davide dherrera pgreco rsc salimma smooge
21:16:57 <salimma> now I wonder how many other EOL software we have in our older EPEL repos
21:17:04 <smooge> hahahahhahahahaha sssssh
21:17:05 <carlwgeorge> lots i'm sure
21:17:10 <rsc> The problem with OpenVPN 2.5 is, that it's not 100% backwards compatible, IIRC.
21:17:34 <carlwgeorge> yeah i'm seeing some removals in the changelog
21:18:13 <carlwgeorge> but in general i'd probably be ok with it as an announced incompat change per the process
21:20:48 <smooge> ok that was it, next subject?
21:20:57 <carlwgeorge> #topic Old Business
21:22:34 <carlwgeorge> only thing I wanted to mention was that apptainer stuff is all wrapped up, thankfully
21:25:17 <salimma> oh joy
21:26:52 <carlwgeorge> anybody else have old business?
21:27:06 <salimma> not me
21:27:36 <smooge> its the end of a 12 hour day so I am ready to call it
21:27:47 <carlwgeorge> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
21:27:53 <smooge> oh i did have one thing from last meeting
21:27:54 <carlwgeorge> just for completeness
21:28:02 <carlwgeorge> shoot
21:28:40 <smooge> i reworked my estimates for daily EPEL-7 users. It is going to be somewhere between a minimum of 3.5 million and 32 million..
21:29:30 <smooge> about half of them come from about 34000 ip addresses out of a total of 3.5 million per day so its estimating a mess
21:29:51 <carlwgeorge> it'll be interesting to see where all those epel7 users land once they've migrated to a countme-enabled distro
21:30:27 <smooge> in any case my low end estimate is 4.5 million and high end is probably 9 million.
21:31:02 <smooge> i also do not know how many of those are Amazon Linux 2 users as we saw earlier this week
21:32:19 <carlwgeorge> yeah i saw an AL2 user complaining (i forget where) about libmaxminddb being retired from epel7.  it got added to rhel7 so i retired it, but that puts AL2 users in a pickle unless AWS adds it there too.
21:32:50 <smooge> al2 is 'dead' as far as I know so good luck to them
21:33:35 <salimma> well.. if you use a derivative that's not closely aligned that happens I guess
21:33:39 <carlwgeorge> yup
21:33:54 <salimma> it surprises me there's no 'EPAL' really, but that's something Amazon should foster
21:34:06 <smooge> my reason for bringing it up was I had 2x the numbers last time for EPEL-7 because I was dividing something by 12 instead of 24 (hours in a day)
21:34:16 <carlwgeorge> it will honestly be a relief with AL shifting to be fedora based, they'll no longer point users to epel for extra stuff that is only 80-90% compatible
21:34:37 <smooge> salimma, for AL3 it is Fedora based and they rebuild a ton of Fedora for it
21:34:43 <salimma> will AL curate Fedora the way RHEL does though?
21:34:55 <salimma> or will they still need an add-on repo (oh god)
21:35:04 <smooge> no idea.
21:35:14 <carlwgeorge> yeah i don't think anyone here can answer that
21:35:36 <salimma> speaking of funky Linux based OSes, this is landing in EPEL9 with today's compose: https://crates.io/crates/pore
21:35:57 <salimma> it's a Rust reimplementation of Android's repo tool (some of our internal AOSP developers want it)
21:36:06 <smooge> anyway going from numbers.. what I have is 4.5 million for EPEL-7, 1.4 million for EPEL-8 and 0.1 million for EPEL-9
21:37:07 <salimma> didn't expect EL9 adoption to be that slow
21:37:20 <smooge> salimma, epel-8 didn't take off for almost 2 years
21:37:35 <salimma> ah
21:37:39 <smooge> enterprises dont' move until they absolutely have to
21:37:50 <salimma> let's see if it's a bit faster this time, since... Alma and Rocky are also retiring 8 in 2024 right?
21:38:00 <smooge> no
21:38:02 <davide> it's not like they have a choice...
21:38:17 <davide> unless they want to keep maintaining everything it's going to get painful after the EOL
21:38:19 <salimma> wait, Alma is keeping 8 beyond 2024? how
21:38:34 <smooge> because the source code will still be pushed to git
21:38:38 <salimma> oh they can track EUS I guess
21:38:49 <smooge> no EUS comes in 2029
21:38:54 <davide> oh right I forgot about EUS
21:38:57 <carlwgeorge> rhel 8 is maintained until 2029, and so are rhel 8 derivatives
21:39:02 <salimma> aha
21:39:11 <salimma> yeah, 8.10 I guess? and EUS comes after that
21:39:12 <davide> ah of course
21:39:13 <smooge> Stream ends in 2024, but EL-8 is pushed to git until 2029
21:39:14 <davide> that makes sense
21:39:28 <carlwgeorge> also i think the centos changes kept even more people back on c7 than you would normally see
21:39:37 <salimma> nods
21:39:43 <rsc> Yes, for sure.
21:39:55 <salimma> so at some point people will have to jump from 7 to... what will it be when 7 is gone. 10?
21:40:08 <rsc> 9
21:40:14 <smooge> I expect they will go to 9.
21:40:26 <rsc> (or just 8, because many third-party software does not support 9 yet)
21:40:28 <smooge> most skip either odd or even
21:40:47 <smooge> heck a lot of third party software still doesn't support 8 and some not even 7
21:40:48 <salimma> upgrading every 6 years makes sense, I suppose
21:42:12 <carlwgeorge> also for open floor, gentle reminder that i have a proposal out for doing epel 10 differently, please read and share comments/concerns/words of encouragement
21:42:12 <smooge> a lot of enterprise stuff I keep getting asked about works on Ubuntu 2014 and maybe 2016 or EL6
21:42:13 <carlwgeorge> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/epel-10-proposal/44304
21:42:46 <smooge> anyway that is all my open flood stuff
21:43:09 <salimma> ack, let me see if there's anything else to add to Carl's proposal (I think I already commented)
21:43:23 <salimma> quick question on huge updates like https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2023-ae11e26767
21:43:46 <salimma> is there a way, given a sidetag, to download only the non-inherited builds from that sidetag (so I can test if they are all installable)?
21:44:31 <salimma> if I try registering the sidetag repo and call 'dnf reposync' the inherited builds also get downloaded (which fails, if you're not on a RH system). and anyway it brings in too many packages
21:44:56 <salimma> if I wait until it's on Bodhi, there's no way to say "don't give karma yet, still testing"
21:45:27 <carlwgeorge> nothing i'm aware of
21:45:54 <carlwgeorge> you may be able to script something out with `koji list-tagged` and `koji download-build`
21:46:32 <salimma> I'll try that, thanks
21:47:01 <salimma> been using koji download-build on individual NVRs, but you're right, list-tagged should show all I need to download
21:49:14 <carlwgeorge> anyone else before we wrap up?
21:51:22 <carlwgeorge> i realized one thing that was missing from the eol dates topic
21:51:24 <carlwgeorge> #info epel8-modular eol on 2023-02-15
21:51:41 <salimma> yay
21:51:50 <smooge> kill it
21:51:50 <salimma> will be a Happy Valentine's
21:52:46 <dherrera> I updated the doc pr with that date :)
21:52:55 <carlwgeorge> awesome
21:53:06 <carlwgeorge> thanks everyone for coming, see y'all next week
21:53:12 <carlwgeorge> #endmeeting