20:00:20 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2023-07-19)
20:00:20 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 19 20:00:20 2023 UTC.
20:00:20 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
20:00:20 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
20:00:20 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:20 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2023-07-19)'
20:00:22 <tdawson> #meetingname epel
20:00:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
20:00:23 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson pgreco carlwgeorge salimma dcavalca dherrera gotmax23 smooge
20:00:23 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge dcavalca dherrera gotmax23 nirik pgreco salimma smooge tdawson
20:00:25 <tdawson> #topic aloha
20:00:26 <carlwgeorge> .hi
20:00:27 <neil> .hi
20:00:27 <zodbot> carlwgeorge: carlwgeorge 'Carl George' <carl@redhat.com>
20:00:28 <rsc> .hello robert
20:00:30 <zodbot> neil: neil 'Neil Hanlon' <neil@shrug.pw>
20:00:33 <dherrera> .hi
20:00:33 <zodbot> rsc: robert 'Robert Scheck' <redhat@linuxnetz.de>
20:00:34 <nirik> morning
20:00:36 <zodbot> dherrera: dherrera 'Diego Herrera' <dherrera@redhat.com>
20:00:38 <neil> o/ hiya folks
20:01:01 <michel-slm> .hello salimma
20:01:02 <zodbot> michel-slm: salimma 'Michel Alexandre Salim' <michel@michel-slm.name>
20:01:15 <tdawson> Hi carlwgeorge neil and dherrera
20:01:23 <michel-slm> (trying to find my chat.fp.o tab so my nick matches)
20:01:26 <tdawson> Hello rsc and michel-slm
20:01:27 <davide> .hello dcavalca
20:01:28 <zodbot> davide: dcavalca 'Davide Cavalca' <davide@cavalca.name>
20:01:40 <tdawson> Hello davide
20:02:32 <jonathanspw> .hi
20:02:33 <zodbot> jonathanspw: jonathanspw 'Jonathan Wright' <jonathan@almalinux.org>
20:03:57 <tdawson> Hi jonathanspw
20:04:18 <jonathanspw> howdy howdy!
20:04:35 <tdawson> #topic End Of Life (EOL)
20:04:36 <tdawson> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
20:04:37 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
20:04:39 <tdawson> CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
20:04:53 <tdawson> #topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
20:04:55 <tdawson> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
20:05:17 <Eighth_Doctor> .hello ngompa
20:05:18 <zodbot> Eighth_Doctor: ngompa 'Neal Gompa' <ngompa13@gmail.com>
20:05:26 <tdawson> Hello Eighth_Doctor
20:05:51 <tdawson> We don't have any issues marked for the meeting ... so looks like this is going to be a Old Business / New Business meeting.
20:06:05 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
20:06:31 <salimma> quick one - django3 is landing in EPEL 9 today https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2023-e403913f49
20:06:32 <tdawson> Does anyone have any Old Business they would like to bring up.
20:06:52 <nirik> 🎊
20:06:54 <neil> salimma++
20:06:54 <zodbot> neil: Karma for salimma changed to 2 (for the release cycle f38):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
20:06:57 <salimma> will work on django4.2 next as 3 is really, really in maintenance mode and the stuff we need for mailman all support 4 already
20:07:27 <neil> salimma: i'm interested to help with such things, as they relate to mailman (and beyond), as well
20:07:53 <nirik> is it expected that a install using 3 would be able to just update to 4.x? or it will be an incompatible upgrade?
20:08:10 <salimma> nirik: I'm... not sure actually. the directory structure is unversioned so I think it does not matter, it should be drop-in
20:08:19 <salimma> neil: sweet. I can add you to our Matrix channel
20:08:33 <salimma> we tried tracking it down in pagure and hackmd before but that does not age well
20:08:34 <nirik> yeah, me either... I would hope it would be pretty transparent...
20:08:49 <salimma> um... neil are you on IRC only?
20:09:25 <NeilHanlon[m]1> i'm neil on fas - and.. this is my matrix :)
20:09:35 <neil> apparently i'm NeilHanlon
20:11:42 <tdawson> salimma: Thank you for getting that into epel9 ... and all the other django work you've been doing.
20:11:44 <salimma> added
20:11:50 <salimma> ok, next topic?
20:12:05 <tdawson> Yep, if you have another one.
20:12:14 <salimma> happy to be able to do my bit :) just sorry it took so long, I dropped it off my plate
20:12:22 <salimma> no, I mean we can move on. nothing else from me
20:12:31 <tdawson> Ah, ok.
20:12:41 <tdawson> Does anyone else have any old business?
20:13:28 <neil> not I
20:13:56 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
20:15:11 <salimma> this is epel tangential I guess
20:15:18 <jonathanspw> So, since AlmaLinux is no longer sticking with 1:1 I plan to propose that we enable EPEL by default in our ISOs and images.
20:15:46 <nirik> cool.
20:15:48 <jonathanspw> Not so much a discussion topic as a statement.  I feel like it would be beneficial to both communities and we at Alma could then encourage even more people to get involved with Fedora and EPEL.
20:15:57 <tdawson> Oooh ... that would be interesting.
20:16:13 <carlwgeorge> neat
20:16:15 <salimma> I just picked up switcheroo-control, which apparently got orphaned in the Red Hat reorg (Bastien Nocera used to maintain it). epel-packagers-sig is listed as impacted too
20:16:41 <davide> I always found a stock system without EPEL effectively useless for most purposes, so I'm all for having it enabled by default in most places
20:16:45 <tdawson> salimma: So, it sounds like you are pulling the old switcheroo are you.
20:16:49 <salimma> jonathanspw: I already lean towards alma as my EL rebuild so this sounds great
20:16:54 <salimma> tdawson: good one
20:16:57 <davide> I take CRB (or its equivalent) is already enabled by default there?
20:17:07 <salimma> sorry, was in the middle of typing when jonathan posted first so wanted to just clear my buffer
20:17:26 <neil> cool idea jonathanspw
20:17:47 <salimma> if EPEL gets enabled then I suppose CRB should get enabled if it is not already. presumably it's not yet
20:18:00 <jonathanspw> Yes CRB would be a given with the idea.
20:18:28 <jonathanspw> I figured posting the idea here and getting your initial reactions would be helpful and make me think of some unknowns.
20:18:28 <Eighth_Doctor> it's not like the supportability differences matter that much for Alma anyway
20:19:00 <jonathanspw> As long as we're sticking with ABI compatible it should continue to be fine, and as a member of EPEL SIG and Alma I want to keep EPEL and Alma working well together :D
20:19:49 <salimma> neil: I take it this is something Rocky can't do since it's still aiming for 1:1 compatibility?
20:19:55 <salimma> jonathanspw++
20:19:55 <zodbot> salimma: Karma for jonathanspw changed to 1 (for the release cycle f38):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
20:20:06 <jonathanspw> thanks
20:20:12 <neil> jonathanspw++
20:20:12 <zodbot> neil: Karma for jonathanspw changed to 2 (for the release cycle f38):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
20:20:49 <neil> salimma: correct. well, we could do it as a 'spin' or so, but I'm not sure there's a huge interest in that in particular
20:21:16 <jonathanspw> neil: yeah i would think that spins would get a lot less traction like that.
20:21:18 <neil> I have been working to encourage and mentor rocky folks to contribute to / with EPEL
20:21:54 <jonathanspw> I know at one point we had crb enabled in the past and the complaint was "well RHEL doesn't do that" with no other real merit...it's kind of nice to be able to do things like enable crb by default if the community so chooses, an do other things like eve consider enabling epel by default, etc.
20:22:16 <jonathanspw> *even.  on laptop.  i can't type on laptops for crap :D
20:22:23 <tdawson> Ya, I could see a spin like Rocky KDE, or some other desktop, but epel by itself ... wouldn't be an interesting spin.
20:22:47 <neil> right, and we do have those, fwiw (kde, gnome, cinnamon, etc). Louis Abel supports those
20:23:01 <jonathanspw> another interesting idea that rhel could probably even get behind, add a nice screen in anaconda asking the user if they want epel/crb enabled at install time?
20:23:07 <neil> btw thank you for KDE stuff tdawson :)
20:23:55 <jonathanspw> I think promoting awareness, use, and contributions to EPEL is quite important with the new cycles happening right now
20:24:07 <carlwgeorge> like the third party codecs option in the ubuntu installer
20:24:07 <tdawson> neil: You are very welcome.
20:24:14 <jonathanspw> carlwgeorge: exactly!
20:24:26 <neil> jonathanspw: that'd be really awesome. i could see it being beneficial in a lot of situations
20:24:26 <Eighth_Doctor> jonathanspw: anaconda addons for this are possible
20:24:32 <nirik> Possibly a dumb question: if those spins use epel packages for those desktops, shouldnt epel be enabled there anyhow to get updates? (but I know nothing about them  )
20:24:45 <Eighth_Doctor> yes, they should :)
20:24:48 <jonathanspw> Eighth_Doctor: ever looked at anaconda before?  Can I hit you up for some pointers?
20:25:15 <jonathanspw> nirik: yes the spins that require epel packages have epel enabled (at least on the alma side)
20:25:36 <Eighth_Doctor> jonathanspw: sure, I've done tweaks to anaconda, though I've never written an addon before
20:25:37 <jonathanspw> but as we all know, majority of EL* systems are headless
20:25:46 <Eighth_Doctor> you'd probably want to hit up #anaconda:fedoraproject.org for more info there
20:25:55 <Eighth_Doctor> addons can also extend kickstart with new stanzas
20:25:59 <jonathanspw> 👍
20:26:05 <neil> jonathanspw: i have a vagrant box you can plug stuff into for testing--might be useful
20:26:15 <tdawson> Hopefully we will be working with the new anaconda for epel10 ... though I have no idea how easy/hard that will be to make add-ons to.
20:26:18 <jonathanspw> neil: might take you up on that!
20:26:19 <Eighth_Doctor> I think the openscap addon does this?
20:26:24 <neil> https://github.com/rocky-linux/vagrant-anaconda
20:26:49 <Eighth_Doctor> https://github.com/OpenSCAP/oscap-anaconda-addon
20:27:06 <neil> as you can see it's very up to date... mostly was for testing oscap and branding stuff
20:27:48 <Eighth_Doctor> there used to be an upstream anaconda vagrant dev environment
20:27:52 <Eighth_Doctor> I think
20:28:39 <tdawson> Any other open floor topics?
20:29:38 <carlwgeorge> i'll mentioned that tdawson and me will be presenting the state of epel at flock
20:29:52 <tdawson> In two weeks, it will be flock.  I know several people will be there.  Do we want to have a meeting then?  (August 2)
20:30:08 <jonathanspw> will it be streamed?
20:30:09 <neil> in person meeting! :P
20:30:21 <carlwgeorge> i did hear that this will be the first live streamed flock
20:30:32 * nirik will be at flock and not likely here. ;)
20:30:40 <neil> that's exciting carlwgeorge
20:30:48 <carlwgeorge> i think we should just cancel the meeting that week
20:31:01 <tdawson> I hope the hotel has the bandwidth for it to be good.
20:31:04 <carlwgeorge> or do it as a live birds of a feather like neil said
20:31:06 <nirik> yeah, they are going to try and livestream
20:32:40 <jonathanspw> someone please share a link in #epel or something :)
20:33:23 <neil> jonathanspw: i will do my best to share
20:34:53 <tdawson> Sorry, I was trying to find the schedule for flock
20:35:14 <tdawson> Anything else for open floor?
20:35:14 <carlwgeorge> https://flock2023.sched.com/
20:35:35 <nirik> https://flock2023.sched.com/
20:35:46 <nirik> (but not yet completely final)
20:36:13 <tdawson> https://flock2023.sched.com/event/1Or5D/state-of-epel
20:36:35 <carlwgeorge> i wonder how i get myself added as a speaker there
20:36:43 <neil> carlwgeorge: i was wondering the same thing yesterday
20:36:44 <tdawson> I've got to get carlwgeorge listed on that.  When I first submitted, he wasn't able to make it.
20:37:35 <carlwgeorge> yeah me attending has come together rather last minute.  i even missed the cfp.
20:38:00 <tdawson> I can change the description, but it looks like I can't add you as a second speaker.
20:38:10 <carlwgeorge> i told justin that if he needs to fill in some slots on the schedule due to cancellations or whatever to let me know, i can present something
20:38:26 <carlwgeorge> either an epel10 hackfest or a packaging workshop
20:39:05 <neil> congrats you're on for a keynote :)
20:39:12 <carlwgeorge> haha
20:40:16 <carlwgeorge> crap, there is a "keynote (tbd)" session on the schedule
20:40:21 <tdawson> OK, description updated
20:40:22 <neil> ;)
20:40:31 <carlwgeorge> two of them actually
20:40:37 <davide> I think the schedule is still in progress, there's a few tbd events there
20:41:34 <carlwgeorge> i'm trying not to bother justin too much because he's incredibly busy right now, but i should probably touch base on the speaker stuff
20:42:17 <tdawson> Any other Open Floor items?
20:43:00 <salimma> re: the orphaned packages due to the RH reorg
20:43:04 <salimma> from the dependency list - appindicator needs switcheroo-control so it got marked as impacted. false positive I guess since obviously switcheroo-control must be in the base CentOS
20:43:24 <salimma> (epel-packagers-sig is listed as comaintaining gnome-shell-extension-appindicator)
20:43:41 <carlwgeorge> what reorg was this?
20:44:27 <tdawson> I think he meant Red Hat dropping some Fedora packages, and those packages getting picked up by the community.
20:44:31 <salimma> I am not sure. the dropped packages (switcheroo-control, malcontent, iio-sensor-proxy) were marked as orphaned due to "internal RH reorg"
20:44:57 <salimma> tdawson: right. but I don't know what specific reorg it is, the one that was talked about is dropping LibreOffice
20:45:03 <nirik> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/
20:45:06 <nirik> oops.
20:45:16 <nirik> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/WRHVGQBKKFU74CBO3CHIJC3Q5VEKH2AV/
20:45:25 <salimma> I've nudged the @gnome-sig team to comaintain these
20:45:48 <salimma> ah sigh, I missed this one. thanks
20:46:28 <carlwgeorge> the desktop apps are not surprising.  the bluetooth and fingerprint stuff is.
20:46:33 <neil> i'll poke at some of those if they're not already taken..
20:46:42 <neil> bluez/libfprint, in particular...
20:46:45 <salimma> right. but for packages that are GNOME dependencies... it's also surprising
20:46:49 <nirik> most of them are already handled.
20:46:58 <neil> nirik: cool
20:47:03 <salimma> but given all the things blowing up I'm not surprised things fall through. at least we caught most in time
20:47:09 * neil has been out of it for a couple weeks moving
20:47:21 <salimma> neil: good luck with the move, hope you're settled in
20:47:26 * nirik isn't going to take any, I have too many packages already. ;)
20:47:58 <salimma> oh I plan to hand it back to more active maintainers ;).
20:48:06 * salimma is still technically the main admin for Vala
20:48:08 <neil> :D
20:48:17 <salimma> wait, wrong, it's not me anymore. yay
20:49:57 <Eighth_Doctor> libfprint was already picked up by someone else thankfully
20:49:59 <tdawson> Hmm ... to bad he didn't break it out into "maintained" (meaning they might be orphaned) and "co-maintained" (less work done on them).
20:50:26 <salimma> we should have a utility to make it easy to pretty-print your packages by status :)
20:50:49 <salimma> to make it... um... easier for people who need to step aside for whatever reason (even just taking temporary absence)
20:51:36 <salimma> I'll add it to the wishlist for the tool I'm working on
20:51:49 <neil> i think it'd be a useful tool, for sure
20:51:51 <neil> salimma++
20:52:58 <salimma> might as well start with that part first, I also want to know which of my packages I'm the bottleneck for :)
20:53:42 <tdawson> Time is getting short on the meeting, any other items for Open Floor?
20:54:15 <dherrera> I have some code written to get that kind of information from src and bodhi (wrote it while I was working on the stale bodhi updates ticket)
20:54:21 <dherrera> dunno if it would be useful
20:57:13 <salimma> Diego H (he/him): yes please
20:57:25 <salimma> if you can just put it in a github gist or a repo that'd be great
20:57:30 <salimma> why reinvent the wheel :)
20:57:45 <dherrera> i'll ping you on the EPEL chat when I upload it ;)
20:58:19 <salimma> dherrera++
20:58:19 <zodbot> salimma: Karma for dherrera changed to 7 (for the release cycle f38):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
20:58:56 <tdawson> I think with that, we are out of time.  Thank you all for comming and for the good discussions.  And espeicially, thank you for your work for EPEL, it's community and users.
20:59:11 <salimma> thank you for running this tdawson
20:59:12 <tdawson> Talk to you all next week.
20:59:19 <dherrera> thx tdawson :)
20:59:20 <neil> thanks tdawson
20:59:31 <tdawson> #endmeeting