20:01:09 <carlwgeorge> #startmeeting EPEL (2023-10-04)
20:01:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct  4 20:01:09 2023 UTC.
20:01:09 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
20:01:09 <zodbot> The chair is carlwgeorge. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
20:01:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2023-10-04)'
20:01:14 <carlwgeorge> #meetingname epel
20:01:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
20:01:15 <michel-slm> .hello salimma
20:01:16 <zodbot> michel-slm: salimma 'Michel Lind' <michel@michel-slm.name>
20:01:22 <carlwgeorge> #chair carlwgeorge nirik pgreco dcavalca ngompa michel-slm
20:01:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: carlwgeorge dcavalca michel-slm ngompa nirik pgreco
20:01:23 <michel-slm> woops, too fast
20:01:41 <nirik> morning
20:01:55 <dcavalca> .hi
20:01:56 <carlwgeorge> #topic howdy
20:01:56 <zodbot> dcavalca: dcavalca 'Davide Cavalca' <davide@cavalca.name>
20:02:02 <rcallicotte> .hi
20:02:03 <zodbot> rcallicotte: rcallicotte 'Robby Callicotte' <rcallicotte@mailbox.org>
20:02:13 <neil> .hi
20:02:14 <zodbot> neil: neil 'Neil Hanlon' <neil@shrug.pw>
20:02:49 <dherrera> .hi
20:02:50 <zodbot> dherrera: dherrera 'Diego Herrera' <dherrera@redhat.com>
20:03:10 <yselkowitz> .hi
20:03:11 <zodbot> yselkowitz: yselkowitz 'Yaakov Selkowitz' <yselkowi@redhat.com>
20:03:24 <neil> heya folks, hope everyone is having a good week
20:05:03 <jonathanspw> .hi
20:05:04 <zodbot> jonathanspw: jonathanspw 'Jonathan Wright' <jonathan@almalinux.org>
20:05:17 <carlwgeorge> #topic End Of Life (EOL) dates
20:05:22 <carlwgeorge> #info RHEL 7 and EPEL 7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
20:05:36 <carlwgeorge> #link https://endoflife.date/rhel
20:05:41 <carlwgeorge> #info CentOS Stream 8 and EPEL 8 Next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
20:05:46 <carlwgeorge> #link https://endoflife.date/centos-stream
20:05:55 <carlwgeorge> #topic EPEL Issues
20:06:25 <carlwgeorge> #link https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=open
20:07:31 <carlwgeorge> looks like we don't have any tagged issues.  i did just remove the tag from 247 (compat devel conflicts) because i haven't finished the pr for the documentation changes.
20:07:48 <carlwgeorge> did anyone have another issue they wanted to call attention to?
20:08:08 <neil> not I
20:08:34 <michel-slm> neither do I
20:09:09 <carlwgeorge> i did have a pr that i skipped creating an issue for, and i'm wondering if the bot works with pr numbers...
20:09:15 <carlwgeorge> .epel 248
20:09:17 <zodbot> carlwgeorge: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
20:09:22 <neil> ha
20:09:24 <carlwgeorge> guess not
20:09:30 <carlwgeorge> #link https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/248
20:09:38 <neil> avoid zodbot growing pains on matrix, hit the regular old pains on IRC :)
20:09:44 <carlwgeorge> hehe
20:10:10 <carlwgeorge> this change isn't revolutionary, just some pointers about which fedora python docs to follow in epel branches
20:10:42 <neil> +1 from me on it. it'll be helpful
20:10:54 <carlwgeorge> it's already gotten revisions based on feedback from some python sig members, and i think it's ready to merge if no one else has suggestions
20:11:28 <carlwgeorge> the biggest "change" per se is making it policy that epel9 packages SHOULD use the pyproject macros
20:11:33 * nirik hasn't had a chance to look at in detail, but it seems fine from a quick glance.
20:12:12 <dcavalca> +1 for me
20:12:38 <carlwgeorge> originally i had it written as MAY use either the pyproject macros or the older ones, but churchyard and gotmax wanted a preference for the new ones
20:13:05 <michel-slm> +1
20:13:21 <michel-slm> I would only ever use the old macros on EL8 and below
20:13:43 <rcallicotte> same ^
20:13:46 <michel-slm> and the new ones are useful enough that for packages I maintain that have EPEL8 branches I let the spec diverges
20:13:47 <rcallicotte> +1
20:13:48 <neil> ebranch feature request: convert from new macros to old 😈
20:14:03 <michel-slm> neil: I take PRs :)
20:14:05 <carlwgeorge> i did run into one case on epel9 where i couldn't convert to the new macros because of some weirdness with the debug filelist
20:14:11 <neil> how did I know you were going to say that michel-slm :P
20:14:13 * michel-slm needs to teach ebranch how to search for existing issues this week
20:14:28 <michel-slm> neil: because I told you to make PRs for zeek ;)
20:14:36 <pgreco_> Hey guys, I'm in LA for the week, just joined to say hello
20:14:44 <michel-slm> hello pgreco_ !
20:14:49 <carlwgeorge> howdy pgreco_
20:14:50 <michel-slm> out of curiosity is that LA or Louisiana
20:14:59 * michel-slm misses New Orleans
20:15:00 <rcallicotte> hi pgreco_
20:15:01 <pgreco_> Los Angeles
20:15:02 <nirik> I love LA! (ok, I don't really)
20:15:11 <dcavalca> hi pgreco!
20:15:18 <carlwgeorge> on a related note for those interested
20:15:20 <carlwgeorge> #link https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/pyproject-rpm-macros/pull-request/371
20:15:28 <carlwgeorge> pyproject macros for epel8
20:15:59 <pgreco_> Oh, nice carl
20:16:30 <carlwgeorge> that doesn't solve the el8 limitations i described in my docs pr, but it will still be useful i think
20:16:41 <michel-slm> nice
20:17:14 <carlwgeorge> seems like that's it for the issue tracker, so we can move on
20:17:16 <carlwgeorge> #topic Old Business
20:17:41 <carlwgeorge> anyone got any old stuff?
20:18:22 <michel-slm> mailman3 is in EPEL 9: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2023-f022c8f3ad
20:18:27 <nirik> \o/
20:18:29 <michel-slm> /very/ old stuff
20:18:36 * dcavalca has a small thing for open floor later
20:18:52 <dcavalca> michel-slm: that's worth of celebration
20:18:55 <carlwgeorge> michel-slm: thanks for that
20:19:01 <dherrera> nice!
20:19:11 * nirik also has a small item for open floor
20:20:24 * michel-slm got to run - toddler stuff
20:20:54 <carlwgeorge> #info mailman3 added to EPEL 9
20:21:02 <carlwgeorge> #link https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2023-f022c8f3ad
20:21:17 <carlwgeorge> i got my prs for rxvt-unicode and libptytty merged, then did the builds and submitted them to undo that unannounced policy-breaking change
20:21:23 <carlwgeorge> #link https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2023-a99c56df6a
20:21:35 <dcavalca> yay, glad to see that resolved
20:21:40 <nirik> excellent.
20:21:41 <rcallicotte> awesome!
20:21:42 <neil> hey pgreco_
20:22:02 <nirik> we still need postorious and hyperkitty, but hopefully they won't be too bad now...
20:22:08 <neil> awesome work folks :)
20:22:19 <neil> those are not the worst, in my experience nirik
20:23:18 <carlwgeorge> i still owe y'all the pr for adding the new voting rules (which we will then vote for under the old voting rules :P )
20:23:28 <neil> spiderman_meme.jpg
20:23:44 <smooge> hello
20:24:33 <neil> heya smooge
20:24:43 <nirik> nice to hear.
20:24:58 <carlwgeorge> i know we talked about mirroring the fesco voting rules pretty closely.  they have something we don't usually do that i know of, where they prefer voting in tickets.  any -1 votes in the ticket triggers discussion at the next meeting.
20:24:59 <smooge> which spiderman meme? 3 fingers pointing or 'with great power comes' or
20:25:15 <neil> smooge: yes, those ones
20:25:24 <neil> choose your own adventure
20:25:36 <carlwgeorge> as far as i know we always vote during meetings.  i can reword the stuff to stick with what we do in practice, or try to incorporate the fesco ticket vote process.  wdyt?
20:25:58 <nirik> In my experence it's hard to get people to vote in tickets for whatever reasons...
20:26:17 <dcavalca> yeah, especially for epel where we don't vote all that often it's probably easier to do meetings
20:26:26 <carlwgeorge> that's the way i was leaning
20:26:36 <carlwgeorge> but wanted to bring it up for due diligence
20:27:01 <neil> perhaps some verbage around passing things without a meeting, in the off chance that such a situation were to occur?
20:28:07 <neil> e.g., > In the case where a ticket must be voted on without a meeting occurring, the vote must be unanimous and recorded via committee members voting in the ticket
20:28:21 <neil> i have no idea why this would ever happen, but, you know.. Justin Case
20:29:06 <carlwgeorge> that could work
20:29:36 <carlwgeorge> although i do struggle to think of a situation where we need an emergency vote like that
20:29:50 <nirik> or just say always things are voted on in meeting unless no meeting happens for X weeks, then vote in ticket?
20:30:05 <carlwgeorge> another good idea
20:30:19 <neil> yeah, that would work as well
20:31:12 <carlwgeorge> maybe "the proposer can request a ticket vote take place before the next meeting, in which committee members leave their vote as comments on the ticket"
20:31:57 <carlwgeorge> that's probably enough for me to stew on as i work on this pr, we can talk about it more once i have the initial pr up for review
20:32:08 <carlwgeorge> any other old business before we go to open floor?
20:32:53 <smooge> next open floor item?
20:35:03 <carlwgeorge> #topic Open Floor
20:35:07 <carlwgeorge> i believe dcavalca spoke up first about having an open floor item, then nirik
20:35:26 <dcavalca> I have an easy one
20:35:38 <dcavalca> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2241427 adds a -epel package to add the missing -devel packages for a golang thing I need
20:35:50 <dcavalca> wanted to get it reviewed because it wasn't entirely trivial to make
20:36:09 <dcavalca> there's a ticket open for CRB as well but those take a while as usual
20:36:48 <carlwgeorge> i'd be happy to review this
20:37:01 <dcavalca> thanks, that's all I had
20:37:27 <nirik> ok, I had 2 small (hopefully) items...
20:38:22 <nirik> First, a while back I took on opendmarc because I use it at home... but I use it on Fedora and it's got a number of bugs on it's epel versions. If anyone is looking for something to do, I would be happy to have co-maintainers / prs for those epel bugs / any help I can get. ;)
20:38:39 <nirik> I just keep not getting to those bugs due to lack of time. ;(
20:39:28 <nirik> secondly... it was pointed out recently that epel8 and epel7 rpm gpg keys are using sha1. I'm not sure its worth fixing, but would love to hear opinions.
20:40:14 <nirik> I'd be a little afraid on epel7 that it would break something to use something different.
20:40:35 <carlwgeorge> i have zero interest in rotating epel gpg keys, and would prefer for them to age out naturally with the corresponding branch eols
20:40:54 <nirik> this was noted in: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11703
20:41:40 <nirik> ie, they are in the fedora.gpg keyring and cause errors for newer oses that try and use that
20:41:59 <nirik> but yeah, I don't really want to mess with them if I can help it.
20:42:10 <jcpunk> With EPEL7 having less than a year left I don't see any benefit to making such a structural change
20:43:05 <dcavalca> yeah I don't really see the point either
20:43:06 <carlwgeorge> it's not clear from the issue what the impact of "rejected by the rpm-sequoia policy in rawhide" actually is
20:43:09 * nirik nods. Just wanted to make everyone here aware and let you all chime in
20:43:37 <neil> w.r.t. opendmarc, I'm happy to find a bit of time to help :)
20:44:00 <nirik> thanks!
20:44:22 <nirik> I think probibly if they plan on using that keyring, they should remove those keys from it before they do...
20:44:54 <nirik> but they want to pass it as 'gpgkey=' in their repo file
20:47:15 <carlwgeorge> i remember it was a pretty big lift for centos to migrate from a sha1 to sha512 key for sig content, and that is far fewer packages than epel
20:48:05 <nirik> well, it's just the algo the key is using, it could be changed... I dont't remember the black magic off hand tho, would have to look again.
20:48:43 <carlwgeorge> if it's doable without rotating the key entirely, sure
20:49:37 <nirik> yes, it should be... but again not sure about epel7...
20:50:24 <carlwgeorge> then the question is if we pass on doing it for epel7, does it matter if we make the change for epel8
20:50:50 <carlwgeorge> i.e. the overall keyring still won't pass
20:51:02 <nirik> right
20:51:09 <carlwgeorge> messy
20:51:26 <nirik> I think we might split that out...
20:51:42 <carlwgeorge> i suggestion talking to arrfab about it and getting this thoughts on it, since he had to deal with this recently
20:54:49 <nirik> sure, mostly its about the fedora.gpg file which I didn't know existed...
20:57:13 <carlwgeorge> anything else before we close out?
20:59:12 <neil> not from I
20:59:23 <carlwgeorge> thanks y'all for coming, and thanks for everything y'all do for epel
20:59:30 <carlwgeorge> #endmeeting