2023-11-29 21:00:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2023-11-15)

2023-11-29 21:00:29 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2023-11-29 21:00:28 UTC
2023-11-29 21:00:29 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2023-11-15)'
2023-11-29 21:00:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2023-11-29 21:00:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2023-11-29 21:00:45 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2023-11-29 21:00:47 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge)
2023-11-29 21:00:56 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !hi
2023-11-29 21:00:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (tdawson)
2023-11-29 21:01:00 <@pgreco:fedora.im> !hi
2023-11-29 21:01:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)
2023-11-29 21:01:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ah ... it still doesn't know me ... oh well.
2023-11-29 21:01:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Pablo Greco and Carl George 
2023-11-29 21:02:21 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> !hi ?
2023-11-29 21:02:22 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !hi
2023-11-29 21:02:23 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2023-11-29 21:02:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Kevin Fenzi (kevin) - he / him / his
2023-11-29 21:02:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2023-11-29 21:02:28 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> !hi
2023-11-29 21:02:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)
2023-11-29 21:02:52 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Troy Dawson: you likely have 'private' set on your account data... it thus can't get your name...
2023-11-29 21:05:01 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !hi
2023-11-29 21:05:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (tdawson)
2023-11-29 21:05:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic End Of Life (EOL)
2023-11-29 21:05:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
https://endoflife.date/rhel
CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
https://endoflife.date/centos-stream

2023-11-29 21:05:56 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2023-11-29 21:05:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2023-11-29 21:06:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2023-11-29 21:06:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2023-11-29 21:06:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Wow ... we haven't had a week without any open issues for a while.
2023-11-29 21:07:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2023-11-29 21:07:45 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> 👴
2023-11-29 21:08:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have any old business ... since I wasn't here last week, there might be some that I don't know about.
2023-11-29 21:09:13 <@dherrera:fedora.im> honestly, there wasn't much movement last week either.
2023-11-29 21:09:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That looks so different between the web browser and Neochat.  The browser shows and old man, and neochat shows what looks like a young kid.
2023-11-29 21:09:41 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> i just wish the unread message counter would get fixed
2023-11-29 21:09:53 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i guess this one counts as old business, since i filed it 11 days ago
2023-11-29 21:09:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11787
2023-11-29 21:10:37 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> however i'm not sure i've brought it up at this meeting yet, so maybe not old for the context of this meeting
2023-11-29 21:11:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, jednorozec was going to do this tomorrow or soon...
2023-11-29 21:11:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> but I don't think per minor keys is a good idea really...
2023-11-29 21:11:41 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> Conan Kudo: did you want to elaborate more on why you think we should do separate keys per minor version?
2023-11-29 21:12:24 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i agree with nirik, it seems unnecessary, and el users would likely be surprised to have to accept a new epel key every six months
2023-11-29 21:12:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I wasn't advocating for it one way or another
2023-11-29 21:12:46 <@michel:one.ems.host> !hi
2023-11-29 21:12:46 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i agree with nirik, it seems unnecessary, and el users would likely be surprised to have to accept a new epel key every six months within the same major version
2023-11-29 21:12:47 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> I'd argue against a key per minor as well
2023-11-29 21:12:47 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2023-11-29 21:12:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2023-11-29 21:12:56 <@michel:one.ems.host> I'm still at lunch, will be sporadic
2023-11-29 21:12:56 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2023-11-29 21:13:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> The only reason I asked the question was because it would allow reuse of the same SOP as Fedora
2023-11-29 21:13:48 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that sop is going to have to diverge in several other ways anyways, i don't think reusing the fedora one verbatim would work anyways
2023-11-29 21:13:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> okay, that's fine
2023-11-29 21:13:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I guess I thought this was the same SOP as Fedora, once per release ... it's just that the releases are very long.
2023-11-29 21:14:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> see, my confusion is whether we want to consider EPEL 10.Y as releases or not
2023-11-29 21:14:50 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> in bodhi, yes.  for package signing key, no.  the nuance of major vs minor.
2023-11-29 21:14:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't think it's actually worth it to do different keys for each minor version
2023-11-29 21:15:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ah ... ok, I see what you were thinking ... for me, I'd say no ... EPEL 10 seems like a release to me.
2023-11-29 21:15:35 <@pgreco:fedora.im> yeah, worth bringing it up so it can be squashed properly
2023-11-29 21:15:37 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the only real benefit for it would be making key compromise less painful, but the downside would be that every gpg key would have to be added to the gpgkeys= in the repo file over time
2023-11-29 21:15:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that would very much suck
2023-11-29 21:16:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it was a fair question but i think we're all on board with keeping one key per major epel version
2023-11-29 21:16:11 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah
2023-11-29 21:16:16 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> everything else can change independent of that
2023-11-29 21:16:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2023-11-29 21:16:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I just figured it'd be worth asking now rather than later
2023-11-29 21:16:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> since it's one of those "early design decision" things
2023-11-29 21:16:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's hard to back out of once it's set
2023-11-29 21:17:12 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> once we get the key id, i plan to send the initial epel10 prs to robosignatory and bodhi so they recognize it
2023-11-29 21:17:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> cool
2023-11-29 21:17:46 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i think that's all i had on that one Troy Dawson, we can move on
2023-11-29 21:17:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sounds settled then.   Any other Old Business?
2023-11-29 21:18:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor

2023-11-29 21:18:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anybody have anything for Open Floor?
2023-11-29 21:18:35 <@davide:cavalca.name> I have one thing for open floor
2023-11-29 21:18:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca Go for it.
2023-11-29 21:19:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> go for it
2023-11-29 21:19:11 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Just don't spill your lunch on your keyboard.
2023-11-29 21:19:27 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> nom nom
2023-11-29 21:19:45 <@davide:cavalca.name> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2251820 is another package from HA I'm trying to get branched in epel
2023-11-29 21:20:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oof
2023-11-29 21:20:23 <@davide:cavalca.name> Just wanted someone to double check that I explained things correctly for the maintainer as they didn't seem familiar with the process 
2023-11-29 21:20:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it seems right
2023-11-29 21:20:54 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> lgtm
2023-11-29 21:21:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I assume the idea is to sync the RHEL/CS version to EPEL9?
2023-11-29 21:21:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and build it?
2023-11-29 21:21:49 <@davide:cavalca.name> Yep that was my plan
2023-11-29 21:21:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> then that should be all gravy
2023-11-29 21:22:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think you explained it better than I could have ... so LGTM
2023-11-29 21:22:25 <@davide:cavalca.name> Perfect thanks 
2023-11-29 21:22:32 <@davide:cavalca.name> That's all for me
2023-11-29 21:22:38 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I had 2 small items.
2023-11-29 21:22:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> nirik: Go for it
2023-11-29 21:23:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> first just wanted to note this request: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11802 hopefully we can help them come up with a good solution.
2023-11-29 21:23:32 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> (basically they want to rebuild a thing in rhel with different compile time options)
2023-11-29 21:23:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this seems like something that doesn't belong in EPEL
2023-11-29 21:24:07 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i spoke with one of the maintainers from intel, ali, and he seems on board with doing it in hyperscale
2023-11-29 21:24:37 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's the rhel maintainer pushing to do it in epel, and it's not clear to me why
2023-11-29 21:24:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yeah, Ali is already a member of CentOS Hyperscale and manages the -intel repo where this probably makes sense to be built
2023-11-29 21:24:39 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> great. I was hoping we could come up with a solution for them, not just saying no. ;)
2023-11-29 21:24:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Davide Cavalca and I can reach out to him to get things going there
2023-11-29 21:25:27 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> shipping rhel packages rebuild with different configure flags has never been in scope for epel, as far as i'm aware
2023-11-29 21:25:33 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Cool. Glad it's all looking to work out.
2023-11-29 21:26:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if they can be done in a non-conflicting way, it's probably fine, but I don't know if that's even possible with this in a safe way, since it's loaded by OpenSSL as a plugin
2023-11-29 21:26:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and plugins are... weird
2023-11-29 21:26:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> especially OpenSSL plugins
2023-11-29 21:28:02 <@dherrera:fedora.im> even if it's fine in that case, it would still would need to go through Fedora instead of requesting a special branch for EPEL IMHO
2023-11-29 21:28:11 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Second item: I created the archives for epel-8.8 and epel-9.2... delayed after the fact. We should try and make sure we track that and make them on the release day or something. Or at least someone files a ticket to track the work or something (I don't think it can easily be automated, but I could be wrong). If it's within 10 days it should be not too hard. Longer requires digging into snapshots and is not much fun.
2023-11-29 21:28:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> doesn't RHEL have some kind of public API or message bus thing that we could subscribe to?
2023-11-29 21:29:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that way we could automate it and do it at the right moment
2023-11-29 21:29:17 <@farribeiro:matrix.org> !hi
2023-11-29 21:29:19 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fábio Ribeiro (farribeiro) - he / him / his
2023-11-29 21:29:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> not that I know of
2023-11-29 21:29:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I've tried to create a ticket, when Stephen J Smoogen doesn't beat me to it.  But this release caught me by surprise and was at a really busy time.
2023-11-29 21:29:43 <@dherrera:fedora.im> even if it's fine in that case, it would still need to go through Fedora instead of requesting a special branch for EPEL IMHO
2023-11-29 21:29:50 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2023-11-29 21:29:51 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2023-11-29 21:30:05 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> sounds like we need that epel releng sop sooner than epel10
2023-11-29 21:30:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Robby Callicotte 
2023-11-29 21:30:18 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> hello all
2023-11-29 21:30:43 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, not an sop so much as a 'someone tracking releases and making sure it happens/is requested'
2023-11-29 21:31:01 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Is that a thing we can create?  an "EPEL releng SOP"?   if so, where?
2023-11-29 21:31:02 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> but I guess that could be part of a sop
2023-11-29 21:31:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Is there a Fedora SOP?
2023-11-29 21:31:44 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> probably alongside https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/infra/release_guide/sop_mass_branching/
2023-11-29 21:31:52 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, there is a archive sop, but that is useless by itself.
2023-11-29 21:33:16 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> the existance of a sop doesn't mean someone knows when to follow it and do those things...
2023-11-29 21:33:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> especially when release dates are not exactly known in advance
2023-11-29 21:33:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> maybe we should ask the RHELeng folks for some help here?
2023-11-29 21:33:42 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i could probably peek at the rhel schedule and set up calendar reminders, i just can't share those publicly
2023-11-29 21:33:54 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i could probably peek at the rhel schedule and set up calendar reminders to myself, i just can't share those publicly
2023-11-29 21:34:11 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's not ideal, but better than nothing
2023-11-29 21:34:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't think it's unreasonable to maybe have some kind of message fired into our message bus from RHEL folks to trigger the process
2023-11-29 21:34:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> or have some kind of public message thing we could subscribe to
2023-11-29 21:34:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> something of some sort
2023-11-29 21:35:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> in general, we're trying to have less human-centric processes because we have too many of them as it is :(
2023-11-29 21:35:40 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> That might be nice, but I'd settle for just a ticket when a release happens. ;)
2023-11-29 21:35:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Have a RHEL machine try to update redhat-release every six hours.  And when it succeeds, trigger all of our SOP stuff.
2023-11-29 21:36:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> machine formatted ticket? :P
2023-11-29 21:36:09 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> * a rhel machine for each major version
2023-11-29 21:36:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that is actually not a terrible idea, it could even be done with a container, right? since ubi and stuff is public
2023-11-29 21:37:07 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we also have packaged rhel-ubi repo configs in rpmdistro-repoquery that could be used simply to check whether the redhat-release version has changed
2023-11-29 21:37:14 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yes, lets build the best rube roldberg we can. :(
2023-11-29 21:38:22 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> anyhow, we don't need to solve it today, but we should try and do better next release(s)...
2023-11-29 21:38:48 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> possibly a releng toddler?
2023-11-29 21:39:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> ```
ngompa@fedora~> rpmdistro-repoquery rhel-ubi 9 --provides redhat-release
Last metadata expiration check: 0:00:36 ago on Wed 29 Nov 2023 04:38:24 PM EST.
base-module(platform:el9)
config(redhat-release) = 9.3-0.5.el9
redhat-release = 9.3-0.5.el9
redhat-release(x86-64) = 9.3-0.5.el9
redhat-release-client
redhat-release-computenode
redhat-release-server
redhat-release-workstation
system-release = 9.3-0.5.el9
system-release(releasever) = 9
```
2023-11-29 21:40:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> ```
ngompa@fedora ~> rpmdistro-repoquery rhel-ubi 9 --qf "%{VERSION}" redhat-release
Last metadata expiration check: 0:01:34 ago on Wed 29 Nov 2023 04:38:24 PM EST.
9.3
```
2023-11-29 21:40:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> ```
ngompa@fedora ~> rpmdistro-repoquery rhel-ubi 9 -q --qf "%{VERSION}" redhat-release
9.3
```
2023-11-29 21:41:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's not much of a rube goldberg machine :)
2023-11-29 21:41:39 <@pgreco:fedora.im> it doesn't even need to trigger the task, just send an email to us
2023-11-29 21:41:59 <@pgreco:fedora.im> or ideally, file the issue 🤔
2023-11-29 21:42:11 <@davide:cavalca.name> Yeah this seems reasonable 
2023-11-29 21:42:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> If it can file the issue, that would be best.
2023-11-29 21:42:34 <@robert:fedora.im> !hi
2023-11-29 21:42:36 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robert Scheck (robert)
2023-11-29 21:42:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it works for 8 too :)
2023-11-29 21:43:14 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, I'd be ok with it notifying or filing an issue.
2023-11-29 21:43:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> since 8 and 9 don't release at the same time, they'll need to be separate toddlers so things don't get too goofy
2023-11-29 21:43:34 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> anyhow, it needs all the work to set it up and check things and such. but we don't need to do it right here. ;)
2023-11-29 21:43:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> at least we know how we can :)
2023-11-29 21:45:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I get enough random other indications (all the bugs I opened get closed) that I know the release has happened, it's the remembering to create the issue that I have a hard time remembering.  So, scripting that part would be very nice.
2023-11-29 21:45:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Before we get too into the weeds of this, does anyone else have anything for Open Floor?
2023-11-29 21:47:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We can end early if nobody has anything else.
2023-11-29 21:48:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't have anything.
2023-11-29 21:48:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK, let's call it a meeting.
2023-11-29 21:48:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for coming and for the good discussion.  And thank you all for all your work on EPEL and for the EPEL community.
2023-11-29 21:49:04 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Talk to you next week.
2023-11-29 21:49:06 <@pgreco:fedora.im> see you next week, bye!
2023-11-29 21:49:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting

2023-11-29 21:49:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting

2023-11-29 21:50:23 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> bot says no!
2023-11-29 21:50:34 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> thanks Troy Dawson
2023-11-29 21:50:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Not again. 🙃
2023-11-29 21:50:52 <@pgreco:fedora.im> !endmeeting