#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:00:36

!startmeeting EPEL (2023-12-20)

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

21:00:36

Meeting started at 2023-12-20 21:00:36 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

21:00:36

The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2023-12-20)'

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:00:43

!meetingname epel

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:00:48

!topic aloha

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:01:19

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:01:19

Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

21:01:24

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:01:26

Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

21:01:56

heya folks :) happy last meeting of 2023!

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:02:18

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:02:19

Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:02:50

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:02:51

Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:03:08

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:03:10

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:03:50

i believe it did, but without the s at the end

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:03:57

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:03:59

Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:04:04

!nextmeeting

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:04:14

it did not, afaik

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:04:15

it's two separate commands iirc, one is channel-specific and one lists all upcoming neetings

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:04:19

it's two separate commands iirc, one is channel-specific and one lists all upcoming meetings

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:04:21

I had to go to IRC to get the info

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:04:33

seems neither is working right now then

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:04:40

https://github.com/fedora-infra/maubot-fedora/pull/33

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:05:17

!topic End Of Life (EOL)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:05:23

RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30 https://endoflife.date/rhel CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31 CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31 https://endoflife.date/centos-stream

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:05:45

I'm getting better at not having the topic be also the whole subject. :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:06:09

Err ... or ... not having all that in the topic ...

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:06:18

Brain is already on holiday.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:06:28

!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:06:34

https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:07:16

Hmm ... looks like we've already cleared out all our issues for the end of the year. :)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:07:29

nice

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:07:30

Michel Lind have a good review.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:07:52

!topic Old Business

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:08:19

So .. looks like Old Business is really the first business ... if anyone has old business.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:08:43

thanks!

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:08:48

I have something

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:09:03

Just filed the 5 stalled requests needed to hopefully get all the mailman stack in

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:09:19

Oh ... cool.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:09:22

another maintainer that owns 3 packages was in another meeting earlier today so I managed to get 3 for free

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:10:17

Had I realized we're down to 8 packages I would have filed earlier, but bugzilla is still borking on printing the dep-tree for hyperkitty, and I only had time to update ebranch to pretty-print bug statuses today :)

<@rcallicotte:fedora.im>

21:10:31

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:10:32

Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:10:35

https://pagure.io/epel/ebranch/c/4524dbc95a9bb8731115cd84e3ca0cdd690cddcb?branch=main

<@davide:cavalca.name>

21:12:06

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:12:07

Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:12:12

Any other Old business?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:13:12

Just so people know, I didn't suddenly get anti-social. I apologize that I'm not saying Hi back to everyone, but with Matrix, when I hit tab, it doesn't automatically fill the names in, so I've sorta had to stop doing that.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:13:50

can't wait until the protocol is stable enough someone can make an IRC-esque frontend :)

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

21:14:00

speaking of ... I had an idea for ebranch to yell at me before asking for an epel branch of something that should be a CRB request... will type something up if that doesn't sound stupid

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:14:15

do file an issue :)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:14:36

be warned I don't have much time to work on nice-to-haves right now, but if you write a PR for it I'll happily review

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

21:14:45

https://github.com/tulir/gomuks ;)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:15:02

Any other Old Business?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:15:10

sadly most alternatives I look at either does not support SSO or encryption or both :P

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:15:20

I have some new biz. would like to go first as I have to run in about 15m

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

21:15:22

only hackers need encryption!

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:15:25

oh, I have something!

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:15:37

Diego Herrera: Go for it

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

21:15:39

nothing from me on old biz (and I'll be quiet to let us get to Jonathan)

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:16:07

I already mentioned it on the epel channel, but we released the results from the last 2 surveys we did for the EPEL community as a Fedora community blogpost

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:16:21

https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/epel-survey-results-2022-2023/

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:16:28

The number of responses this year was lower I noticed :(

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:16:29

!link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/epel-survey-results-2022-2023/

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:17:01

it was lower, but we had about the same quantity of contributors answering

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:17:03

there was a glitch at the beginning I think

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:17:24

like we were not set up to get many responses so the survey didn't work for many people

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:17:33

when it got relaunched many people probably didn't notice

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:17:41

Diego Herrera: I saw that. Thank you for getting that written up and published.

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:18:29

yeah, hope we can find other ways to promote the survey the next time we do another one ^^

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:18:34

I'm going to move along, so we can get to jonathanspw stuff before he had to go.

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:18:43

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:18:45

Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:18:54

sorry I'm late, hi guys

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:18:58

!topic General Issues / Open Floor

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:19:06

jonathanspw: Go for it.

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:19:17

I'd like to get a permanent update policy exception for certbot in EPEL but our docs don't seem to have any such provisions for permanent exceptions. How should we handle that? It's not really a fesco issue because I don't need the exception for Fedora branches.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:20:12

I sorta thought certbot would hlave already had an exception for Fedora ... but it's still a good question.

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:20:40

If it has one in Fedora I'm not aware of it, and it's not documented with the others at https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Updates_Policy/#_exceptions

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:21:22

does any package depend on certbot?

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:21:38

tldr certbot has breaking changes in the traditional sense, but things don't rely on it but cert types/etc. and the remote DNS APIs do change so it needs to have the updates done. There's little to no risk of anything breaking due to said updates.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:22:09

I believe we were going to update our page that talks about exceptions, saying that we follow Fedora's exceptions, with exceptions to that. And then list the exceptions.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:22:14

yeah, nothing seems to depend on it directly ``` $ rpmdistro-repoquery centos-stream 9 --whatrequires certbot Last metadata expiration check: 4:53:26 ago on Wed 20 Dec 2023 10:28:13 AM CST. $ ```

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:22:43

But as for how to get on that list, I believe it would be similar to how one get's on Fedora's exception list, just doing it through EPEL instead of FESCO.

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:22:47

so request a fesco exception and EPEL inherits it? I do recall we were talking about this last meeting but don't think a decision was reached yet.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:23:30

jonathanspw: Yes, EPEL inherits Fesco's exceptions, unless there are conditions/reasons why we ;wouldn't.

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:23:44

Ok great, I'll take that approach then, thanks!

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:25:08

As an aside, if nobody picks that up and creates a pull request for that section of our documentation, that's on my todo list for next year, but I really won't mind if someone does it before I get to it. ;)

<@jonathanspw:fedora.im>

21:25:51

I have to run folks, y'all have a merry christmas and happy new year!

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:26:14

jonathanspw: Same to you. Thanks for everything you do for EPEL and it's community.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:27:03

Diego Herrera: I sorta cut you off (I saw you typing) to get to Jonathan's subject ... was there other things you wanted to talk about, or expand on the survey?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:29:15

yeah i think the fesco route makes the most sense. if it's appropriate to have an exception in epel it probably is in stable fedora releases as well.

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:29:16

I was just finishing talking about it ^^, but I just wanted to mention that besides the initial link glitch, I think that the previous one had better reach was cos it was promoted in that year's flock

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:30:05

Ah, that's right. The timing of conferences I think made a difference.

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:30:05

this year we reached out the marketing team and they helped us promote it too, so shoutouts to them :)

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:30:50

but that's all from my side ^^

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:31:19

Anything else for Open Floor?

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:31:39

I have just a comment for salimma

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:31:54

I have another open floor thing, but Pablo Greco you go first

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:32:01

I'm the main maintainer, but sallimma is the epel maintainer proxychains_ng

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:32:10

and I may do a quick release if https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/proxychains-ng is merged

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:32:21

wrong link, 1 sec

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:32:27

https://github.com/rofl0r/proxychains-ng/pull/542/files

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:32:49

oh cool! yeah I can update in EPEL if there's a new release

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:33:06

I'll ping you, or let me know if you want me to do them all

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:33:18

that issue has been really annoying us for several months

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:33:23

yeah, feel free to do them all unless there's any breaking change

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:33:32

in which case for EPEL it needs an announcement period

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:34:02

no breaking changes, I may either cherry pick that one, or apply anything on top of 4.16, there's nothing big

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:34:28

that's all I had, now you go

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:34:33

go for it then :)

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

21:35:24

salimma gave a cookie to pgreco. They now have 8 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:35:39

good news for those who like using fzf (fuzzy finder) - it's coming to EPEL https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fzf-available-for-epel-9/99817

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:35:59

I'm doing unto Go packages what I did to Rust last year now that I have the go-sig commit bit :)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:36:22

two interesting bug I encountered along the ways: turns out Go macros are broken in RHEL 9.3

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:36:44

and ... rpmautospec in some rare instances would consistently set the wrong release number :( -- all linked in the write-up

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:37:18

for my only go package in epel (caddy), i almost completely skip the go macros so it works more like rhel8/rhel9 go packages

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:37:21

I'll look at the writeup, but is this the newer rpmautospec or the older version?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:37:43

it runs the same one I think. the srpm generation runs on Fedora, right

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:37:57

if I do 'fedpkg verrel' locally it spits out the correct release number

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:38:24

so yeah nobody could figure it out when I asked in the infra room

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:39:35

Ah, ok. The people on that room would know more than I do ... although ... the two main people who re-wrote it are also on PTO right now ... so I'm wondering if they got word.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:39:57

I did file a github issue so we don't forget, with collected examples from me and Conan Kudo

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:40:16

it's not an EPEL-specific issue, some ELN and Rawhide builds are also broken

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:41:29

That will be good to get fixed before CS10/RHEL10 get too far along with rpmautospec.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:42:02

Right now it's not implemented yet ... but we're planning on doing it right after everyone get's back from the holidays.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:42:29

oh, that will make it easier to ingest Fedora packages in the future

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:44:08

Anything else for Open Floor?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:44:53

i have a small thing about epel10

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:45:06

Carl George: Go for it

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:46:23

i started looking into fedpkg changes for requesting builds. the way the code works is the build target is guessed by the branch name. no doubt a great feature, but it might complicate our minor version work.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:46:58

my initial thinking was we would have separate build targets for each minor version, an no un-minor-versioned build targets. i.e. first we create an epel10.0 target, then an epel10.1 target, and so on.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:47:41

ah, are you concerned you'll have to update the logic every 6 months to repoint 'epel10' to the right target?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:47:55

silly question, does Koji support ... aliases for build targets?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:48:18

the problem is there is no way in the current code to guess the epel10.0 target from a branch named epel10. so maybe we need to have an epel10 target that changes it's dist-tag every six months, or we revert to the second place dist-tag suggestion and have the leading branch be just `.el10` and have older branches be `.el10~0`.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:49:10

the 'epel10 target that changes its disttag' seems similar to what I had in mind

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:49:11

neither is bad per se, i think both would be doable, just needs some more investigation if it will work correctly to stick with our original `.el10_x` scheme in all branches

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:50:14

i'm sure Conan Kudo would be happy if we reverted to the tilde notation, since that was what he wanted in the first place 😛

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:50:36

yes please

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:50:39

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:51:18

that said, the original pros/cons for the tilde notation still exist, so if we can line up the build targets appropriately i think it would be best to stick with the dist-tag scheme we voted for

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:51:27

we can also do `.el10~10.x` if it makes it easier

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:51:45

it has the same effect and might look less weird

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:52:01

personally i think that looks more weird

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:52:31

i got my staging koji permissions fixed, so i can play with this a bit more and report back next year

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:52:42

Ahh ... that makes my brain hurt ... or maybe I'm already in holiday mode.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:52:56

I blame holiday mode :)

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:53:12

it made my brain hurt long before holiday mode

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:54:09

anyways, just sharing a bit that as always we might need to be flexible with the implementation details as we learn more

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:54:13

the tilde I don't mind, the duplication of 10~10 ...

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:54:59

that's all i got

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:55:06

there are plenty of ways the skin it... `el10~Y`, `el10~10_Y`, `el10~10.Y`, `el10~_Y`, ...

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:55:12

pick your poison :P

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:55:22

Five minutes left ... anyone have anything else for Open Floor before we close for the year?

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:55:55

I was gonna ask about next week

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:56:09

we're skipping next week

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:56:20

yeah, I think we decided to skip at the meeting last week

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:56:24

Pablo Greco: We talked about it last week ... we decided we were skipping next weeks meeting.

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:56:39

next meeting is going to be Jan 3

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:56:40

great, thought so

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:58:03

With that being said ... I hope you all have happy, festive, and safe holidays.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

21:58:26

Happy holidays everyone! stay warm and cozy

<@pgreco:fedora.im>

21:58:39

happy holidays, see ya!

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

21:58:42

take care everyone! happy holidays

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

21:58:51

Thanks Troy :D and happy holidays ^^!

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

21:58:53

🎄🎅🎊

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:59:00

We'll talk to you next year ... 2024 🎄

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

21:59:02

later gators

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

21:59:29

!endmeeting