2023-12-20 21:00:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2023-12-20)
2023-12-20 21:00:36 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2023-12-20 21:00:36 UTC
2023-12-20 21:00:36 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2023-12-20)'
2023-12-20 21:00:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2023-12-20 21:00:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2023-12-20 21:01:19 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> !hi
2023-12-20 21:01:19 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)
2023-12-20 21:01:24 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2023-12-20 21:01:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2023-12-20 21:01:56 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> heya folks :) happy last meeting of 2023!
2023-12-20 21:02:18 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2023-12-20 21:02:19 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2023-12-20 21:02:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2023-12-20 21:02:51 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2023-12-20 21:03:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2023-12-20 21:03:10 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2023-12-20 21:03:50 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i believe it did, but without the s at the end
2023-12-20 21:03:57 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2023-12-20 21:03:59 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2023-12-20 21:04:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !nextmeeting
2023-12-20 21:04:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it did not, afaik
2023-12-20 21:04:15 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> it's two separate commands iirc, one is channel-specific and one lists all upcoming neetings
2023-12-20 21:04:19 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> it's two separate commands iirc, one is channel-specific and one lists all upcoming meetings
2023-12-20 21:04:21 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I had to go to IRC to get the info
2023-12-20 21:04:33 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> seems neither is working right now then
2023-12-20 21:04:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> https://github.com/fedora-infra/maubot-fedora/pull/33
2023-12-20 21:05:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic End Of Life (EOL)
2023-12-20 21:05:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
https://endoflife.date/rhel
CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
https://endoflife.date/centos-stream

2023-12-20 21:05:45 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm getting better at not having the topic be also the whole subject. :)
2023-12-20 21:06:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Err ... or ... not having all that in the topic ... 
2023-12-20 21:06:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Brain is already on holiday. 
2023-12-20 21:06:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2023-12-20 21:06:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2023-12-20 21:07:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hmm ... looks like we've already cleared out all our issues for the end of the year. :)
2023-12-20 21:07:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nice
2023-12-20 21:07:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michel Lind have a good review.
2023-12-20 21:07:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2023-12-20 21:08:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So .. looks like Old Business is really the first business ... if anyone has old business.
2023-12-20 21:08:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> thanks!
2023-12-20 21:08:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> I have something
2023-12-20 21:09:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> Just filed the 5 stalled requests needed to hopefully get all the mailman stack in
2023-12-20 21:09:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ... cool.
2023-12-20 21:09:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> another maintainer that owns 3 packages was in another meeting earlier today so I managed to get 3 for free
2023-12-20 21:10:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> Had I realized we're down to 8 packages I would have filed earlier, but bugzilla is still borking on printing the dep-tree for hyperkitty, and I only had time to update ebranch to pretty-print bug statuses today :)
2023-12-20 21:10:31 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2023-12-20 21:10:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2023-12-20 21:10:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/ebranch/c/4524dbc95a9bb8731115cd84e3ca0cdd690cddcb?branch=main
2023-12-20 21:12:06 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2023-12-20 21:12:07 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2023-12-20 21:12:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Any other Old business?
2023-12-20 21:13:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Just so people know, I didn't suddenly get anti-social.  I apologize that I'm not saying Hi back to everyone, but with Matrix, when I hit tab, it doesn't automatically fill the names in, so I've sorta had to stop doing that.
2023-12-20 21:13:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> can't wait until the protocol is stable enough someone can make an IRC-esque frontend :)
2023-12-20 21:14:00 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> speaking of ... I had an idea for ebranch to yell at me before asking for an epel branch of something that should be a CRB request... will type something up if that doesn't sound stupid
2023-12-20 21:14:15 <@salimma:fedora.im> do file an issue :)
2023-12-20 21:14:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> be warned I don't have much time to work on nice-to-haves right now, but if you write a PR for it I'll happily review
2023-12-20 21:14:45 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> https://github.com/tulir/gomuks ;)
2023-12-20 21:15:02 <@tdawson:fedora.im>  Any other Old Business?
2023-12-20 21:15:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> sadly most alternatives I look at either does not support SSO or encryption or both :P
2023-12-20 21:15:20 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> I have some new biz.  would like to go first as I have to run in about 15m
2023-12-20 21:15:22 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> only hackers need encryption!
2023-12-20 21:15:25 <@dherrera:fedora.im> oh, I have something!
2023-12-20 21:15:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Diego Herrera: Go for it
2023-12-20 21:15:39 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> nothing from me on old biz (and I'll be quiet to let us get to Jonathan)
2023-12-20 21:16:07 <@dherrera:fedora.im> I already mentioned it on the epel channel, but we released the results from the last 2 surveys we did for the EPEL community as a Fedora community blogpost
2023-12-20 21:16:21 <@dherrera:fedora.im> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/epel-survey-results-2022-2023/
2023-12-20 21:16:28 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> The number of responses this year was lower I noticed :(
2023-12-20 21:16:29 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/epel-survey-results-2022-2023/
2023-12-20 21:17:01 <@dherrera:fedora.im> it was lower, but we had about the same quantity of contributors answering
2023-12-20 21:17:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> there was a glitch at the beginning I think
2023-12-20 21:17:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> like we were not set up to get many responses so the survey didn't work for many people
2023-12-20 21:17:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> when it got relaunched many people probably didn't notice
2023-12-20 21:17:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Diego Herrera: I saw that.  Thank you for getting that written up and published.
2023-12-20 21:18:29 <@dherrera:fedora.im> yeah, hope we can find other ways to promote the survey the next time we do another one ^^
2023-12-20 21:18:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm going to move along, so we can get to jonathanspw stuff before he had to go.
2023-12-20 21:18:43 <@pgreco:fedora.im> !hi
2023-12-20 21:18:45 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)
2023-12-20 21:18:54 <@pgreco:fedora.im> sorry I'm late, hi guys
2023-12-20 21:18:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor

2023-12-20 21:19:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> jonathanspw: Go for it.
2023-12-20 21:19:17 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> I'd like to get a permanent update policy exception for certbot in EPEL but our docs don't seem to have any such provisions for permanent exceptions.  How should we handle that?  It's not really a fesco issue because I don't need the exception for Fedora branches.
2023-12-20 21:20:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I sorta thought certbot would hlave already had an exception for Fedora ... but it's still a good question.
2023-12-20 21:20:40 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> If it has one in Fedora I'm not aware of it, and it's not documented with the others at https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Updates_Policy/#_exceptions
2023-12-20 21:21:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> does any package depend on certbot?
2023-12-20 21:21:38 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> tldr certbot has breaking changes in the traditional sense, but things don't rely on it but cert types/etc. and the remote DNS APIs do change so it needs to have the updates done.  There's little to no risk of anything breaking due to said updates.
2023-12-20 21:22:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I believe we were going to update our page that talks about exceptions, saying that we follow Fedora's exceptions, with exceptions to that.  And then list the exceptions.
2023-12-20 21:22:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, nothing seems to depend on it directly

```
$ rpmdistro-repoquery centos-stream 9 --whatrequires certbot
Last metadata expiration check: 4:53:26 ago on Wed 20 Dec 2023 10:28:13 AM CST.

$
```

2023-12-20 21:22:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> But as for how to get on that list, I believe it would be similar to how one get's on Fedora's exception list, just doing it through EPEL instead of FESCO.
2023-12-20 21:22:47 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> so request a fesco exception and EPEL inherits it?  I do recall we were talking about this last meeting but don't think a decision was reached yet.
2023-12-20 21:23:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> jonathanspw: Yes, EPEL inherits Fesco's exceptions, unless there are conditions/reasons why we ;wouldn't.
2023-12-20 21:23:44 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> Ok great, I'll take that approach then, thanks!
2023-12-20 21:25:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> As an aside, if nobody picks that up and creates a pull request for that section of our documentation, that's on my todo list for next year, but I really won't mind if someone does it before I get to it. ;)
2023-12-20 21:25:51 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> I have to run folks, y'all have a merry christmas and happy new year!
2023-12-20 21:26:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> jonathanspw: Same to you.  Thanks for everything you do for EPEL and it's community.
2023-12-20 21:27:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Diego Herrera: I sorta cut you off (I saw you typing) to get to Jonathan's subject ... was there other things you wanted to talk about, or expand on the survey?
2023-12-20 21:29:15 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yeah i think the fesco route makes the most sense.  if it's appropriate to have an exception in epel it probably is in stable fedora releases as well.
2023-12-20 21:29:16 <@dherrera:fedora.im> I was just finishing talking about it ^^, but I just wanted to mention that besides the initial link glitch, I think that the previous one had better reach was cos it was promoted in that year's flock
2023-12-20 21:30:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im>  Ah, that's right.  The timing of conferences I think made a difference.
2023-12-20 21:30:05 <@dherrera:fedora.im> this year we reached out the marketing team and they helped us promote it too, so shoutouts to them :)
2023-12-20 21:30:50 <@dherrera:fedora.im> but that's all from my side ^^
2023-12-20 21:31:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else for Open Floor?
2023-12-20 21:31:39 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I have just a comment for salimma
2023-12-20 21:31:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> I have another open floor thing, but Pablo Greco you go first
2023-12-20 21:32:01 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I'm the main maintainer, but sallimma is the epel maintainer proxychains_ng
2023-12-20 21:32:10 <@pgreco:fedora.im> and I may do a quick release if https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/proxychains-ng is merged
2023-12-20 21:32:21 <@pgreco:fedora.im> wrong link, 1 sec
2023-12-20 21:32:27 <@pgreco:fedora.im> https://github.com/rofl0r/proxychains-ng/pull/542/files
2023-12-20 21:32:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh cool! yeah I can update in EPEL if there's a new release
2023-12-20 21:33:06 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I'll ping you, or let me know if you want me to do them all
2023-12-20 21:33:18 <@pgreco:fedora.im> that issue has been really annoying us for several months
2023-12-20 21:33:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, feel free to do them all unless there's any breaking change
2023-12-20 21:33:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> in which case for EPEL it needs an announcement period
2023-12-20 21:34:02 <@pgreco:fedora.im> no breaking changes, I may either cherry pick that one, or apply anything on top of 4.16, there's nothing big
2023-12-20 21:34:28 <@pgreco:fedora.im> that's all I had, now you go
2023-12-20 21:34:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> go for it then :)
2023-12-20 21:35:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma gave a cookie to pgreco. They now have 8 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2023-12-20 21:35:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> good news for those who like using fzf (fuzzy finder) - it's coming to EPEL https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fzf-available-for-epel-9/99817
2023-12-20 21:35:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm doing unto Go packages what I did to Rust last year now that I have the go-sig commit bit :) 
2023-12-20 21:36:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> two interesting bug I encountered along the ways: turns out Go macros are broken in RHEL 9.3
2023-12-20 21:36:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> and ... rpmautospec in some rare instances would consistently set the wrong release number :( -- all linked in the write-up
2023-12-20 21:37:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> for my only go package in epel (caddy), i almost completely skip the go macros so it works more like rhel8/rhel9 go packages
2023-12-20 21:37:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll look at the writeup, but is this the newer rpmautospec or the older version?
2023-12-20 21:37:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> it runs the same one I think. the srpm generation runs on Fedora, right
2023-12-20 21:37:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> if I do 'fedpkg verrel' locally it spits out the correct release number
2023-12-20 21:38:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> so yeah nobody could figure it out when I asked in the infra room
2023-12-20 21:39:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ah, ok.  The people on that room would know more than I do ... although ... the two main people who re-wrote it are also on PTO right now ... so I'm wondering if they got word.
2023-12-20 21:39:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> I did file a github issue so we don't forget, with collected examples from me and Conan Kudo 
2023-12-20 21:40:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> it's not an EPEL-specific issue, some ELN and Rawhide builds are also broken
2023-12-20 21:41:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That will be good to get fixed before CS10/RHEL10 get too far along with rpmautospec.
2023-12-20 21:42:02 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Right now it's not implemented yet ... but we're planning on doing it right after everyone get's back from the holidays.
2023-12-20 21:42:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, that will make it easier to ingest Fedora packages in the future
2023-12-20 21:44:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else for Open Floor?
2023-12-20 21:44:53 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i have a small thing about epel10
2023-12-20 21:45:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: Go for it
2023-12-20 21:46:23 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i started looking into fedpkg changes for requesting builds.  the way the code works is the build target is guessed by the branch name.  no doubt a great feature, but it might complicate our minor version work.
2023-12-20 21:46:58 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> my initial thinking was we would have separate build targets for each minor version, an no un-minor-versioned build targets.  i.e. first we create an epel10.0 target, then an epel10.1 target, and so on.
2023-12-20 21:47:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah, are you concerned you'll have to update the logic every 6 months to repoint 'epel10' to the right target?
2023-12-20 21:47:55 <@salimma:fedora.im> silly question, does Koji support ... aliases for build targets?
2023-12-20 21:48:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the problem is there is no way in the current code to guess the epel10.0 target from a branch named epel10.  so maybe we need to have an epel10 target that changes it's dist-tag every six months, or we revert to the second place dist-tag suggestion and have the leading branch be just `.el10` and have older branches be `.el10~0`.
2023-12-20 21:49:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> the 'epel10 target that changes its disttag' seems similar to what I had in mind
2023-12-20 21:49:11 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> neither is bad per se, i think both would be doable, just needs some more investigation if it will work correctly to stick with our original `.el10_x` scheme in all branches
2023-12-20 21:50:14 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'm sure Conan Kudo would be happy if we reverted to the tilde notation, since that was what he wanted in the first place 😛
2023-12-20 21:50:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes please
2023-12-20 21:50:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> :)
2023-12-20 21:51:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that said, the original pros/cons for the tilde notation still exist, so if we can line up the build targets appropriately i think it would be best to stick with the dist-tag scheme we voted for
2023-12-20 21:51:27 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we can also do `.el10~10.x` if it makes it easier
2023-12-20 21:51:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it has the same effect and might look less weird
2023-12-20 21:52:01 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> personally i think that looks more weird
2023-12-20 21:52:31 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i got my staging koji permissions fixed, so i can play with this a bit more and report back next year
2023-12-20 21:52:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ahh ... that makes my brain hurt ... or maybe I'm already in holiday mode.
2023-12-20 21:52:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I blame holiday mode :)
2023-12-20 21:53:12 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it made my brain hurt long before holiday mode
2023-12-20 21:54:09 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> anyways, just sharing a bit that as always we might need to be flexible with the implementation details as we learn more
2023-12-20 21:54:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> the tilde I don't mind, the duplication of 10~10 ... 
2023-12-20 21:54:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that's all i got
2023-12-20 21:55:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> there are plenty of ways the skin it... `el10~Y`, `el10~10_Y`, `el10~10.Y`, `el10~_Y`, ...
2023-12-20 21:55:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> pick your poison :P
2023-12-20 21:55:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Five minutes left ... anyone have anything else for Open Floor before we close for the year?
2023-12-20 21:55:55 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I was gonna ask about next week
2023-12-20 21:56:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we're skipping next week
2023-12-20 21:56:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I think we decided to skip at the meeting last week
2023-12-20 21:56:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Pablo Greco: We talked about it last week ... we decided we were skipping next weeks meeting.
2023-12-20 21:56:39 <@dherrera:fedora.im> next meeting is going to be Jan 3
2023-12-20 21:56:40 <@pgreco:fedora.im> great, thought so
2023-12-20 21:58:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> With that being said ... I hope you all have happy, festive, and safe holidays.
2023-12-20 21:58:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> Happy holidays everyone! stay warm and cozy
2023-12-20 21:58:39 <@pgreco:fedora.im> happy holidays, see ya!
2023-12-20 21:58:42 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> take care everyone! happy holidays 
2023-12-20 21:58:51 <@dherrera:fedora.im> Thanks Troy :D and happy holidays ^^!
2023-12-20 21:58:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> 🎄🎅🎊
2023-12-20 21:59:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We'll talk to you next year ... 2024 🎄
2023-12-20 21:59:02 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> later gators
2023-12-20 21:59:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting