2024-01-10 21:00:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2024-01-10)
2024-01-10 21:00:41 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-01-10 21:00:41 UTC
2024-01-10 21:00:41 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-01-10)'
2024-01-10 21:00:46 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2024-01-10 21:00:51 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2024-01-10 21:00:56 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2024-01-10 21:00:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2024-01-10 21:00:58 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-01-10 21:00:59 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-01-10 21:01:00 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !hi
2024-01-10 21:01:01 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2024-01-10 21:01:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Kevin Fenzi (kevin) - he / him / his
2024-01-10 21:01:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2024-01-10 21:01:03 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> heya folks, happy Wednesday
2024-01-10 21:01:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-01-10 21:01:10 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-01-10 21:01:33 <@pgreco:fedora.im> !hi
2024-01-10 21:01:34 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)
2024-01-10 21:02:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Diego Herrera Neil Hanlon nirik Robby Callicotte Michel Lind🎩 Pablo Greco 
2024-01-10 21:05:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic End Of Life (EOL)
2024-01-10 21:05:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
https://endoflife.date/rhel
CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
https://endoflife.date/centos-stream

!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open

2024-01-10 21:05:46 <@pgreco:fedora.im> That 7 countdown is killing me
2024-01-10 21:06:06 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yep. fedora-infra is feeling that too... pesky old apps.
2024-01-10 21:06:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues

2024-01-10 21:06:44 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open

2024-01-10 21:07:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Looks like there aren't any open issues for the meeting this week.
2024-01-10 21:07:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> so we can spend all the time in open floor! whee
2024-01-10 21:07:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2024-01-10 21:07:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> I could use a quicker meeting, it's going to get cold in an hour and we want to pick up our kid
2024-01-10 21:07:45 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Nope ... we do have one Old Business, at least one.
2024-01-10 21:08:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Last week we wanted to look at a new time for the meeting.  Although I said I would create a poll, it has been a busy week.
2024-01-10 21:08:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> no worries :)
2024-01-10 21:08:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, thank you very much Diego Herrera for setting that up for us.
2024-01-10 21:09:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh!
2024-01-10 21:09:19 <@smooge:fedora.im> our next meeting will be $RANDOM_DAY at $RANDOM_UTC
2024-01-10 21:09:22 <@dherrera:fedora.im> yeah, I sent an email to epel-devel, but I'll add the link here
2024-01-10 21:09:32 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !link 
https://whenisgood.net/EPEL_Steering_Committee_2024

2024-01-10 21:09:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah, good ole When Is Good
2024-01-10 21:09:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> (wanted to try the framasoft one but I guess next time)
2024-01-10 21:10:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That turned out to be February 10, at 0344 UTC
2024-01-10 21:10:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> remember to set your location before voting or it gets confusing
2024-01-10 21:12:16 <@smooge:fedora.im> huh I was expecting Feb 30th
2024-01-10 21:12:38 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry ... I'm trying to find how to do the cookie emogi for Diego Herrera 
2024-01-10 21:12:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> tdawson gave a cookie to dherrera. They now have 10 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-01-10 21:13:11 <@zodbot:fedora.im> neil gave a cookie to dherrera. They now have 11 cookies, 3 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-01-10 21:13:13 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma gave a cookie to dherrera. They now have 12 cookies, 4 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-01-10 21:13:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else before we move on?
2024-01-10 21:14:05 <@pgreco:fedora.im> Ok, I just completed an estimate of my whenisgood
2024-01-10 21:14:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> just sent mine too
2024-01-10 21:14:30 <@pgreco:fedora.im> if the time ends up being outside of that, I can try to adapt, don't take it as set in stone
2024-01-10 21:14:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Any other Old Business?
2024-01-10 21:15:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Stephen J Smoogen 
2024-01-10 21:15:57 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> same for me
2024-01-10 21:16:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sounds good, thanks for letting us know that Pablo and Neil.
2024-01-10 21:16:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor

2024-01-10 21:16:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have anything for open Floor?
2024-01-10 21:16:56 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I do
2024-01-10 21:16:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> yes
2024-01-10 21:17:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, Neil go first
2024-01-10 21:17:10 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon: go for it
2024-01-10 21:18:25 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I grabbed python-mistune from the orphanage this morning, and it needs a bit of help. Current plan is to branch python-mistune08 for epel8 (it is already there for epel9), and then update python-mistune to a newer version. The current version (0.8.4) also may have CVE against it, but I need to evaluate that a bit.
2024-01-10 21:19:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I saw that Michel Lind🎩 also volunteered to help with that package.
2024-01-10 21:19:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I'll help Neil maintain it
2024-01-10 21:19:50 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Yes, we do keep getting into trouble together...
2024-01-10 21:20:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> for context I needed mistune 2.x in EPEL 9 - I think for Django, and thus for mailman
2024-01-10 21:20:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> and created mistune08 to not break other packages. I just granted Neil comaintainer status on that so he can release that and mistune 2.x at the same time
2024-01-10 21:21:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Very cool.  Thank you both for not only taking that, but for working together so well.
2024-01-10 21:22:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else?
2024-01-10 21:22:30 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Not on that, thanks!
2024-01-10 21:22:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michel Lind🎩: Was that what you were going to talk about?  Or did you have something else?
2024-01-10 21:22:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> something else, yes
2024-01-10 21:22:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Go for it
2024-01-10 21:23:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> question about nodejs -- is there any blocker to getting nodejs18 and nodejs20 in EPEL 9?
2024-01-10 21:24:25 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Not looked, but I wouldn't think so... just work to make it work. ;)
2024-01-10 21:24:53 <@smooge:fedora.im> Michel Lind🎩: the only blocker I could think of is Stephen Gallagher's ulcers
2024-01-10 21:24:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> :)
2024-01-10 21:25:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> sweet. no modularity or anything to worry about right?
2024-01-10 21:25:21 <@smooge:fedora.im> what-ularity?
2024-01-10 21:25:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> not anymore.
2024-01-10 21:25:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> we have an internal customer who wants these versions so it's a nice carrot to get them to move to EL9 :)
2024-01-10 21:26:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> They are there as modules, but as far as I know, as long as you keep them seperate, so you can install and use them all, it should be good.
2024-01-10 21:26:25 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Node 18 is already in RHEL 9 and20 is in progress, I believe. 
2024-01-10 21:27:26 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> And my ulcers are doing just fine, thank you.
2024-01-10 21:27:30 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> oh right. didn't look. ;)
2024-01-10 21:27:51 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> at the ulcers? good.
2024-01-10 21:27:59 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I see 20 as well... so... done! :)
2024-01-10 21:28:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, goody
2024-01-10 21:28:13 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> so, i guess the answer is.. No, you may not add them to EPEL :P 
2024-01-10 21:28:15 <@smooge:fedora.im> man there are no emoji for stomach
2024-01-10 21:28:26 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> 🫃 ?
2024-01-10 21:29:21 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> They are present as modules, as Troy noted. I’m not sure what the EPEL rules are on duplicating module content with non-modular versions, but it’s probably a minefield
2024-01-10 21:30:32 <@smooge:fedora.im> ugh.. now my ulcers are flaring
2024-01-10 21:30:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> out of curiosity - what are the package names? the Fedora one is basically nodejsXX, and nodejs18 does not seem to have a repo in gitlab - https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream/rpms/nodejs18
2024-01-10 21:31:09 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> it'll be in https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream/modules/nodejs
2024-01-10 21:31:09 <@smooge:fedora.im> i have a shot glass next to my desk for that
2024-01-10 21:31:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> ahh it's still modular, got it
2024-01-10 21:31:21 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> In RHEL it is branches of the nodejs package 
2024-01-10 21:32:01 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> we're now all obligated to take a shot of alcohol for talking about modularity
2024-01-10 21:32:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> I wish I can but I have to drive in a bit
2024-01-10 21:32:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> sigh
2024-01-10 21:32:17 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> It’ll switch to the Fedora approach in RHEL 10, I believe 
2024-01-10 21:32:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> I am looking forward to a strong brandy tonight
2024-01-10 21:32:28 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma has already given cookies to sgallagh during the F39 timeframe
2024-01-10 21:32:45 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, the rather odd thing would be possible.  You could have modules nodejs:20 installed, as well as EPEL nodejs20 ... might get a bit confusing.
2024-01-10 21:32:48 <@zodbot:fedora.im> neil gave a cookie to sgallagh. They now have 219 cookies, 7 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-01-10 21:33:04 <@zodbot:fedora.im> kevin gave a cookie to sgallagh. They now have 220 cookies, 8 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-01-10 21:33:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> how... if someone upgrades their system from 9? or if 10 supports both modular nodejs and Fedora style
2024-01-10 21:34:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> But still do-able, and from what I see of the policy, legal.
2024-01-10 21:34:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 10 will not have modules ... dnf will still support modules, but there will be no RHEL modules.
2024-01-10 21:35:02 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think troy meant if you added them tin epel9...
2024-01-10 21:35:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> ooh
2024-01-10 21:35:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah so I'm definitely not adding them in epel9
2024-01-10 21:35:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> yselkowitz gave a cookie to sgallagh. They now have 221 cookies, 9 of which were obtained in the Fedora 39 release cycle
2024-01-10 21:35:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ngompa has already given cookies to sgallagh during the F39 timeframe
2024-01-10 21:35:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> worst case if we can't get the modular one to work, we need to maintain ursine ones in Hyperscale. oh well
2024-01-10 21:37:01 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else on this before we move to nirik ?
2024-01-10 21:37:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> that's it from me :)
2024-01-10 21:37:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> nirik: go for it.
2024-01-10 21:38:11 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Just a note that we had a request to make epel archive for 8.6 (which we missed doing). https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11884 sadly, I think this is beyond the level of trouble I want to go to, so I was just going to close it cant fix...
2024-01-10 21:39:05 <@pgreco:fedora.im> Does it make sense from RHEL's point of view? I mean, is there any extended support version for 8.6?
2024-01-10 21:39:37 <@smooge:fedora.im> I blieve 8.6 is one of the EUS versions 
2024-01-10 21:39:50 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> it is, yeah
2024-01-10 21:40:10 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> otoh i don't know that EUS + EPEL is a "supported" configuration
2024-01-10 21:40:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> so ... this would involve figuring out the NEVRAs of builds just prior to 8.7 branching I guess?
2024-01-10 21:40:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, if rhel is promising epel support for EUS versions... then... they should provide that. ;)
2024-01-10 21:40:23 <@smooge:fedora.im> but its not been something EPEL supports and the X.Y are a hack I came up with to try and cut down the problems with CentOS being slow to put out updates
2024-01-10 21:40:24 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> yep
2024-01-10 21:40:33 <@smooge:fedora.im> not for EPEL to support EUS
2024-01-10 21:40:37 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> only place i could think that'd have the data would be like... pkgs.org
2024-01-10 21:40:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> if we have to do this I wonder if we should make a script to make it easier in the future
2024-01-10 21:40:48 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> or a really broken mirror :) 
2024-01-10 21:40:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Actually, I learned how to do that this week.  It's a simple koji command
2024-01-10 21:40:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> it would be figuring out exact versions, doing a compose, then syncing it to archives.
2024-01-10 21:40:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> wait... we know the date the builds are switched over to 8.7 though?
2024-01-10 21:41:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> so even koji would have that data
2024-01-10 21:41:12 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I'm not saying we should support it, I'm just asking to see if it would make sense for someone to ask for it ;)
2024-01-10 21:41:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> not in a very useful format, sure, but it should be there
2024-01-10 21:41:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Doing the compose I think would be the hard part.
2024-01-10 21:41:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> aha, there :)
2024-01-10 21:41:50 <@pgreco:fedora.im> Michel Lind🎩: koji removes the signed versions, we'd have to merge in the signatures into the rpm
2024-01-10 21:41:52 <@smooge:fedora.im> lets let nirik get out why its not always a simple koji command
2024-01-10 21:41:58 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> `koji reconstruct-epel-compose` doesn't exist, eh?
2024-01-10 21:42:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> ouchie
2024-01-10 21:42:07 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> it's not all that simple
2024-01-10 21:42:20 <@pgreco:fedora.im> does anybody know if re-merging the signature would produce a different hash?
2024-01-10 21:42:33 <@pgreco:fedora.im> because AFAIR, we still keep the detached sigs
2024-01-10 21:42:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> this is where I like how centos repos keep all old builds available
2024-01-10 21:42:49 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> you can get the packages, then you need to resign them, make some tag that contains them, create pungi config to handle that, iterate over problems, and... it may or may not be the same as the compose at the time.
2024-01-10 21:43:13 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> by then, 8.10 might be EOL
2024-01-10 21:43:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> how serious is the request for this?
2024-01-10 21:43:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> it does seem like too much work, though going forward maybe we can see how to make sure the archive is not missed
2024-01-10 21:44:13 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> yeah. my opinion is going back is hard, trying to catch it for the future is less hard
2024-01-10 21:44:19 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> it's easy enough to do at the time... but someone needs to file a releng ticket / remind us to do it.
2024-01-10 21:44:36 <@smooge:fedora.im> basically what can help is some sort of script which does this copying regularly once a 'branch' is made would be easier
2024-01-10 21:44:51 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> really the copying is... an rsync call.
2024-01-10 21:45:09 <@smooge:fedora.im> so basically start ~copying~ rsyncing over 8.9 and 9.3 into a tree regularly
2024-01-10 21:45:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> or a cp
2024-01-10 21:45:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> in EPEL10 we won't have this problem too right
2024-01-10 21:45:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> since we'll have major_minor branches
2024-01-10 21:45:54 <@smooge:fedora.im> then when the new X.Y comes out have it start doing that 
2024-01-10 21:46:01 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> We'll get it somewhat automatically yes
2024-01-10 21:46:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Here's the script I used for 8.7: cp -a epel/8 /srv/pub/archive/epel/8.7.2023-05-09
2024-01-10 21:46:51 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> anyhow, perhaps we could make a set of things we do at release boundries and make sure we go thru that when they happen...
2024-01-10 21:47:03 <@smooge:fedora.im> hmm could you maybe use some awk and sed in it.. want to make sure it looks like it is hard to maintain
2024-01-10 21:47:29 <@smooge:fedora.im> anyway we need to let Michel Lind🎩 get his kids
2024-01-10 21:47:45 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep.  Anything else before we close?
2024-01-10 21:47:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> only one kid :) I don't want to be charged with kidnapping
2024-01-10 21:48:29 <@smooge:fedora.im> i am of the opinion that doing this is very hard and the requestor would need to help out to make it happen
2024-01-10 21:48:35 <@smooge:fedora.im> so close with impunity
2024-01-10 21:48:59 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> close the meeting with impunity? ;)
2024-01-10 21:49:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> That works too
2024-01-10 21:49:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yes ... all ya'll ... out ... out  ... 😄
2024-01-10 21:49:27 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i'll write something in zsh.. or fish, maybe
2024-01-10 21:49:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> But only if we don't have anything else.
2024-01-10 21:50:07 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> advsh!
2024-01-10 21:50:21 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> one quick thing from me is I'm planning to branch `ssh-audit` for EPEL 8 and 9 -- recently added to Fedora
2024-01-10 21:51:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Interesting
2024-01-10 21:51:56 <@smooge:fedora.im> powershell so we can say we are working with Microsoft
2024-01-10 21:52:56 <@tdawson:fedora.im> And with that ... I'm going to call it a meeting.
2024-01-10 21:53:13 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> good call lol
2024-01-10 21:53:23 <@pgreco:fedora.im> with a few minutes to spare
2024-01-10 21:53:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for coming.  And thank you all for everything you do for EPEL and it's community.
2024-01-10 21:53:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Talk to you next week.
2024-01-10 21:53:45 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting