#meeting-1:fedoraproject.org log

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:02:40

!startmeeting epel

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:02:40

Meeting started at 2024-02-21 18:02:40 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

18:02:41

The Meeting name is 'epel'

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:03:19

!meetingname epel

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:03:31

!topic aloha

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:03:37

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:03:38

Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:03:39

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:03:41

Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:03:50

morning

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:04:03

!chair nirik

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:04:09

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:04:15

Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:04:18

!chair nirik

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:04:26

not sure if chair works

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:04:36

chair doesn't work/have any meaning currently for the matrix meeting bot

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:04:50

ok cool. I will let Troy take over

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:04:59

we are at aloha

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:05:33

Hi everyone ... sorry for the mixup.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:05:39

that chair is nirik's sir. You need to earn it

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:05:52

you'll be hearing from my attorney!

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:06:08

but i can't argue with your logic...

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:06:17

hi Troy

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:06:22

!topic End Of Life (EOL)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:06:28

RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30 https://endoflife.date/rhel CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31 CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31 https://endoflife.date/centos-stream

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:06:36

sooon

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:06:43

i think the meeting mixup is not on us

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:06:58

it's currently 1800 UTC, and server wg meeting is supposed to be 1700 UTC

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:07:23

I see them both at 1800UTC on fedocal -- https://calendar.fedoraproject.org/epel/#m10727 https://calendar.fedoraproject.org/server/#m10709

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:07:36

Don't worry, in a few weeks everyone will be wrong again. ;)

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:07:50

March 10th waits for no one

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:08:31

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:08:33

James Richardson (jrichardson)

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:08:36

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/#_you_are_welcome_to_join_and_to_contribute

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:08:50

So, I know that last week I at least typed up an issue so we could plan the epel8-next and epel7 EOL ... but now that I am trying to find it ... I guess I never hit "Create"

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:08:56

time is relative.. :P

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:10:21

I guess I'll try to create and issue like that again this week. But ... I've only got 4 months to get it done.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:10:38

!topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:10:45

https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:03

Nothing there for todays meeting.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:08

Moving on

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:14

!topic Old Business

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:31

Do we have any old business?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:11:55

We obviously have new business ... so I'll hold off on the meeting channel till we get to Open Floor.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:12:12

i have an old one

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:12:19

!link https://pagure.io/epel/issue/255

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:12:34

i forget to tag it for the meeting, sorry about that

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:12:42

Not a problem

<@dherrera:fedora.im>

18:12:48

!hi

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:12:51

I did see that was coming up again. What is the latest?

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:13:05

Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:13:18

the maintainer attached a new build to the update, but still hasn't addressed the fesco requirement, or any of the other packaging flaws i asked for fixes for

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:13:39

in fact he introduced a new flaw, and implicit conflicts with lsb_release

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:13:44

wonderful

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:14:11

the only change was adding a disclaimer to the `%description`, which is good, but not sufficient

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:15:43

I see you've already negative karma'ed it ... so at least it's not going to sneak in.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:16:04

yeah this is just fyi to the group for now

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:16:37

although we could withdraw it from testing, like we did before, to make sure it doesn't get manually pushed to stable in spite of the negative karma

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:17:02

Thanks for letting us know, and thank you for keeping on top of that.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:17:25

Do we have any other Old Business before we move on to Open Floor?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:17:31

no choice, bodhi emailed me and i couldn't unsee it

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:17:54

should we go through with an unpush from testing?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:18:40

I'm +1 for getting it unpushed from testing

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:19:06

I want to say yes, but I also like it being easily accessible for looking at ... I'll let others decide.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:19:38

I would say if people want it unpushed.. they should add more negative karma for reasons they found

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:20:26

that way it is clear why if brought up to fesco etc

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:22:03

Sounds good to me. Those of you who want to unpushed ... give it some more negative karma.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:22:06

does a certain amount of negative karma cause it to be unpushed automatically?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:22:25

i know any negative karma disables the auto-push-to-stable

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:22:25

by default, yes. The packager can override that tho when they make the update

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:22:36

we should.. consider just retiring this package (I wish this is as easy it is in EPEL as it is in Fedora)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:22:45

I'm about to give negative karma

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:23:04

i'm assuming that's the "unstable by karma" threshold?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:23:08

retiring in fedora does not block getting this branched for say epel10, right?

<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>

18:23:17

yeah

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:23:23

(since a lot of EPEL only packages are explicitly retired in Rawhide so they don't get new Fedora branches

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:23:26

that has been recommended to the maintainer repeatedly, to no avail

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:23:46

so... maybe an action is to implement the equivalent - "this package should be blocked from future EPEL branches"

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:24:07

and of course it's the same maintainer :(

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:24:20

who can.. weigh in on getting this properly retired? FPC? FeSCo?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:24:33

also.. what would break anyway. we already have a compat that provides just /etc/redhat-lsb right?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:24:38

/etc/lsb_release I mean

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:24:44

fesco weighed in in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3089

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:25:00

the result was "should be retired, but we're not going to force it"

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:25:45

`/usr/bin/lsb_release` is almost always the thing that is needed by 3rd party stuff, and yes it's provided by the lsb_release package

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:26:31

I -1-ed the update

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:26:34

i saw almost always to cover exceptions, but i've never seen any, i've only seen stuff trying to parse the output of that command

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:26:42

i say almost always to cover exceptions, but i've never seen any, i've only seen stuff trying to parse the output of that command

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:28:07

so yeah FESCo provides guidelines without weighing in on specifics I guess, similar to another recent decision

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:28:19

and this packager thinks adding the disclaimer in the description is enough

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:29:07

I'm going to sandbox this discussion in 2 minutes ... Did we come to a conclusion?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:29:26

👍️

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:29:42

I'm going to timebox this discussion in 2 minutes ... Did we come to a conclusion?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:29:58

OK ... next topic

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:30:10

!topic General Issues / Open Floor

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:31:03

I'd like to bring up ... are we ok with using this channel (meeting-1) for our regular meetings?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:32:30

i'd prefer to stick in the unnumbered meeting room

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:32:53

but that's just my ocd and liking shorter names for things

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:33:27

no preference here aside from having to play with which channel I have muted :P

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:33:29

we meet more regularly

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:33:38

the fact that they claim to go by utc but shift times with someone's local summertime makes my brain hurt

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:33:41

so I think we should get the unnumbered one and server move?

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:33:48

the prob is they had this time slot before ...

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:33:58

and we move our time so... I can see why they can claim to have priority

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:34:22

what does the fedora calendar app say for this time?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:34:23

you could argue it either way

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:35:12

the calendar app has us both listed for 1800 utc

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:35:17

the problem with fedocal is only the organizer can see if it's pinned to utc or to a local zone

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:35:51

for everyone else it displays utc but can shift

<@davide:cavalca.name>

18:36:45

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:36:46

Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:36:56

My preference is to move it to here. This is only our second week at the new time slot, changing it to a different channel while it's fairly fresh is easier than if we've been doing it for years.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:38:32

same. Plus I think in general we are reasonable people here and this could be ... unnecessary conflict with another group if we insist on staying in the main room

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:38:36

I am going to agee with Troy on this

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:39:13

yeah not worth dying on this hill

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:39:27

on second thought, I agree it's easier to move. Plus I think in general we are reasonable people here and this could be ... unnecessary conflict with another group if we insist on staying in the main room

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:39:29

There is also the issue that I don't know anyone in the server group (or don't know if I know anyone)

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:39:38

we have a lot of other hills to take

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:39:50

You Only Live Twice

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:39:57

so i am sort of in the server group

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:40:05

YOLT

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:40:32

OK ... sounds like we are in agreement .... Let's not die on this hill ... let's take that hill over there. ...

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:40:34

I was sort of in the server group too but don't really have time to commit

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:40:42

Wow ... that sounded so much better in my head.

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:40:58

* Doesn't want to climb any hills right now

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:41:00

the other hill has a bar, I hear

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:41:27

Neil Hanlon: okay, you sold me

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:42:02

so the plan is to go to the other room, grab a drink, then come back here for our meeting? ;)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:42:06

I'll update the calendar and send out an email.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:42:55

Do we have any other Open Floor items?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:43:04

looks like our docs don't have the new time yet, so whoever gets to that first can also change the channel name

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:43:48

Oh ... I forgot about that .... but at least anyone can change the docs, it's only me and nirik that can change the calendar.

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:43:53

i can't believe you baited me into opening a PR like that

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:43:58

disgusting!

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:44:41

(I'll fix the docs ;))

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:44:53

Thank you

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:45:41

... checks to see if he could still change the calendar... move it to #centos-meeting at 00:00 UTC

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:45:46

If nobody else has any open floor items, I do have another one.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:46:22

I have one but it's quick - I can go at the end

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:46:37

I have one too, but can go last

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:46:45

I won't be around the next two Wedensdays. Does anyone want to volunteer to run the meeting the next two weeks?

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:47:12

i got it

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:47:17

Thank you.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:47:40

For those wondering, I will be on an airplane the next two wedensdays.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:48:06

With lots of sandy beaches between the airflights.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:48:11

oooh

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:48:20

good chance to promote the penguin shirts

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:48:29

Anyway ... that's it for me ... Michel Lind🎩 go for it.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:48:33

yup!

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:49:20

nushell landed last Friday (well, it got pushed on Saturday) in Fedora, and after three more days of frantically branching and building, it's now in EPEL 9 as well (it helps that some dependencies got branched for bat and other tools earlier) https://hachyderm.io/@michelin/111970811937821323

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:49:49

nushell.sh <-- for those unfamiliar with it. it's basically a powershell like shell, where everything is structured data. no more need for jc and jq :)

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:50:14

thanks for the work, I will stick with oldshell

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:50:28

tbh it will probably be my secondary after fish too

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:50:56

James Richardson: want to go next?

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:51:07

Thanks Michel Lind🎩

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:51:53

I don't think there's a "Welcome newcomers" section for these meetings so just wanted to take a second and introduce myself to anyone I haven't worked with before

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:52:10

Michel Lind🎩: I only program in csh.

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:52:23

Hi James!

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:52:32

I've been on the Red Hat CPE team for about 2 1/2 years, before that I was the CPE dogsbody (intern) for awhile

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:52:53

welcome!

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:52:54

he gets paid in guitars

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:53:09

🍻

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:53:12

Ohh ... that James.

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:53:13

this past summer, Carl George introduced me (in a very gentle way) to EPEL and I bugged management since then to let me come over

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:53:26

are you in Ireland James? in which case I'm glad we moved this meeting to be earlier

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:53:28

so it goes :)

<@davide:cavalca.name>

18:53:35

welcome!

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:53:38

if that's where they money goes anyways, might as well cut out the extra steps

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:53:42

and yes, Stephen J Smoogen you can pay me in guitars anytime

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:53:42

welcome! glad to meet you

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:53:45

Carl's really good at recruiting :)

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:54:18

sadly I am still saving up for my double bass guitar to learn to play

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:54:37

for anyone else besides Smooge...I accept beer too

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:54:44

my wife and son have a larger collection to pay me NOT to learn to play

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

18:54:51

that actually was one of the factors in me suggesting we move to an earlier time. but there have also been other europeans that have mentioned the inconvenient time before as well.

<@jrichardson:matrix.org>

18:55:13

I am, and thank you again for moving the meeting

<@salimma:fedora.im>

18:55:20

heh, I'm based in the US and I also don't mind frontloading meetings earlier in the day :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:56:15

Any other items before we close the meeting?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

18:57:17

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

18:57:18

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:57:25

definitely time to close

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:57:36

Hi Conan Kudo

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:57:54

hi Conan Kudo

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:57:59

Thank you all for coming ... no matter how short a time ... and thank you all for all you do for EPEL and it's community.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:58:28

I'll talk to ya'll in three weeks

<@smooge:fedora.im>

18:58:43

have a good time! I will not be staging a coup in 7 days

<@nhanlon:beeper.com>

18:58:51

Enjoy your vacation Troy Dawson ! We will be grading you on how well you vacation

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

18:58:54

!endmeeting