2024-02-21 18:02:40 <@smooge:fedora.im> !startmeeting epel
2024-02-21 18:02:40 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-02-21 18:02:40 UTC
2024-02-21 18:02:41 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'epel'
2024-02-21 18:03:19 <@smooge:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2024-02-21 18:03:31 <@smooge:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2024-02-21 18:03:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-02-21 18:03:38 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-02-21 18:03:39 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-02-21 18:03:41 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-02-21 18:03:50 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2024-02-21 18:04:03 <@smooge:fedora.im> !chair nirik
2024-02-21 18:04:09 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-02-21 18:04:15 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-02-21 18:04:18 <@smooge:fedora.im> !chair nirik 
2024-02-21 18:04:26 <@smooge:fedora.im> not sure if chair works
2024-02-21 18:04:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> chair doesn't work/have any meaning currently for the matrix meeting bot
2024-02-21 18:04:50 <@smooge:fedora.im> ok cool. I will let Troy take over
2024-02-21 18:04:59 <@smooge:fedora.im> we are at aloha
2024-02-21 18:05:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi everyone ... sorry for the mixup.
2024-02-21 18:05:39 <@smooge:fedora.im> that chair is nirik's sir. You need to earn it
2024-02-21 18:05:52 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> you'll be hearing from my attorney! 
2024-02-21 18:06:08 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> but i can't argue with your logic...
2024-02-21 18:06:17 <@smooge:fedora.im> hi Troy
2024-02-21 18:06:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic End Of Life (EOL)
2024-02-21 18:06:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
https://endoflife.date/rhel
CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
https://endoflife.date/centos-stream
2024-02-21 18:06:36 <@smooge:fedora.im> sooon
2024-02-21 18:06:43 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i think the meeting mixup is not on us
2024-02-21 18:06:58 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's currently 1800 UTC, and server wg meeting is supposed to be 1700 UTC
2024-02-21 18:07:23 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I see them both at 1800UTC on fedocal -- https://calendar.fedoraproject.org/epel/#m10727 https://calendar.fedoraproject.org/server/#m10709
2024-02-21 18:07:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Don't worry, in a few weeks everyone will be wrong again. ;)
2024-02-21 18:07:50 <@smooge:fedora.im> March 10th waits for no one
2024-02-21 18:08:31 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> !hi
2024-02-21 18:08:33 <@zodbot:fedora.im> James Richardson (jrichardson)
2024-02-21 18:08:36 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/#_you_are_welcome_to_join_and_to_contribute
2024-02-21 18:08:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, I know that last week I at least typed up an issue so we could plan the epel8-next and epel7 EOL ... but now that I am trying to find it ... I guess I never hit "Create" 
2024-02-21 18:08:56 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> time is relative.. :P
2024-02-21 18:10:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I guess I'll try to create and issue like that again this week.   But ... I've only got 4 months to get it done.
2024-02-21 18:10:38 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2024-02-21 18:10:45 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2024-02-21 18:11:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Nothing there for todays meeting.
2024-02-21 18:11:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Moving on
2024-02-21 18:11:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2024-02-21 18:11:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Do we have any old business? 
2024-02-21 18:11:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We obviously have new business ... so I'll hold off on the meeting channel till we get to Open Floor.
2024-02-21 18:12:12 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i have an old one
2024-02-21 18:12:19 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/epel/issue/255
2024-02-21 18:12:34 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i forget to tag it for the meeting, sorry about that
2024-02-21 18:12:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Not a problem
2024-02-21 18:12:48 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2024-02-21 18:12:51 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I did see that was coming up again.  What is the latest?
2024-02-21 18:13:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2024-02-21 18:13:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the maintainer attached a new build to the update, but still hasn't addressed the fesco requirement, or any of the other packaging flaws i asked for fixes for
2024-02-21 18:13:39 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> in fact he introduced a new flaw, and implicit conflicts with lsb_release
2024-02-21 18:13:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> wonderful
2024-02-21 18:14:11 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the only change was adding a disclaimer to the `%description`, which is good, but not sufficient
2024-02-21 18:15:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I see you've already negative karma'ed it ... so at least it's not going to sneak in.
2024-02-21 18:16:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yeah this is just fyi to the group for now
2024-02-21 18:16:37 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> although we could withdraw it from testing, like we did before, to make sure it doesn't get manually pushed to stable in spite of the negative karma
2024-02-21 18:17:02 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thanks for letting us know, and thank you for keeping on top of that.
2024-02-21 18:17:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Do we have any other Old Business before we move on to Open Floor?
2024-02-21 18:17:31 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> no choice, bodhi emailed me and i couldn't unsee it
2024-02-21 18:17:54 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> should we go through with an unpush from testing?
2024-02-21 18:18:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm +1 for getting it unpushed from testing
2024-02-21 18:19:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I want to say yes, but I also like it being easily accessible for looking at ... I'll let others decide.
2024-02-21 18:19:38 <@smooge:fedora.im> I would say if people want it unpushed.. they should add more negative karma for reasons they found
2024-02-21 18:20:26 <@smooge:fedora.im> that way it is clear why if brought up to fesco etc
2024-02-21 18:22:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sounds good to me.  Those of you who want to unpushed ... give it some more negative karma.
2024-02-21 18:22:06 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> does a certain amount of negative karma cause it to be unpushed automatically?
2024-02-21 18:22:25 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i know any negative karma disables the auto-push-to-stable
2024-02-21 18:22:25 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> by default, yes. The packager can override that tho when they make the update
2024-02-21 18:22:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> we should.. consider just retiring this package (I wish this is as easy it is in EPEL as it is in Fedora)
2024-02-21 18:22:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'm about to give negative karma
2024-02-21 18:23:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'm assuming that's the "unstable by karma" threshold?
2024-02-21 18:23:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> retiring in fedora does not block getting this branched for say epel10, right?
2024-02-21 18:23:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah
2024-02-21 18:23:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> (since a lot of EPEL only packages are explicitly retired in Rawhide so they don't get new Fedora branches
2024-02-21 18:23:26 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that has been recommended to the maintainer repeatedly, to no avail
2024-02-21 18:23:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> so... maybe an action is to implement the equivalent - "this package should be blocked from future EPEL branches"
2024-02-21 18:24:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> and of course it's the same maintainer :(
2024-02-21 18:24:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> who can.. weigh in on getting this properly retired? FPC? FeSCo?
2024-02-21 18:24:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> also.. what would break anyway. we already have a compat that provides just /etc/redhat-lsb right?
2024-02-21 18:24:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> /etc/lsb_release I mean
2024-02-21 18:24:44 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> fesco weighed in in https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3089
2024-02-21 18:25:00 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the result was "should be retired, but we're not going to force it"
2024-02-21 18:25:45 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> `/usr/bin/lsb_release` is almost always the thing that is needed by 3rd party stuff, and yes it's provided by the lsb_release package
2024-02-21 18:26:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> I -1-ed the update
2024-02-21 18:26:34 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i saw almost always to cover exceptions, but i've never seen any, i've only seen stuff trying to parse the output of that command
2024-02-21 18:26:42 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i say almost always to cover exceptions, but i've never seen any, i've only seen stuff trying to parse the output of that command
2024-02-21 18:28:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> so yeah FESCo provides guidelines without weighing in on specifics I guess, similar to another recent decision
2024-02-21 18:28:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> and this packager thinks adding the disclaimer in the description is enough
2024-02-21 18:29:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm going to sandbox this discussion in 2 minutes ... Did we come to a conclusion?
2024-02-21 18:29:26 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> 👍️
2024-02-21 18:29:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm going to timebox this discussion in 2 minutes ... Did we come to a conclusion?
2024-02-21 18:29:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK ... next topic
2024-02-21 18:30:10 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor
2024-02-21 18:31:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'd like to bring up ... are we ok with using this channel (meeting-1) for our regular meetings?
2024-02-21 18:32:30 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i'd prefer to stick in the unnumbered meeting room
2024-02-21 18:32:53 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> but that's just my ocd and liking shorter names for things
2024-02-21 18:33:27 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> no preference here aside from having to play with which channel I have muted :P 
2024-02-21 18:33:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> we meet more regularly
2024-02-21 18:33:38 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the fact that they claim to go by utc but shift times with someone's local summertime makes my brain hurt
2024-02-21 18:33:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> so I think we should get the unnumbered one and server move?
2024-02-21 18:33:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> the prob is they had this time slot before ...
2024-02-21 18:33:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> and we move our time so... I can see why they can claim to have priority
2024-02-21 18:34:22 <@smooge:fedora.im> what does the fedora calendar app say for this time?
2024-02-21 18:34:23 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> you could argue it either way
2024-02-21 18:35:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> the calendar app has us both listed for 1800 utc
2024-02-21 18:35:17 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the problem with fedocal is only the organizer can see if it's pinned to utc or to a local zone
2024-02-21 18:35:51 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> for everyone else it displays utc but can shift
2024-02-21 18:36:45 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2024-02-21 18:36:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2024-02-21 18:36:56 <@tdawson:fedora.im> My preference is to move it to here.  This is only our second week at the new time slot, changing it to a different channel while it's fairly fresh is easier than if we've been doing it for years.
2024-02-21 18:38:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> same. Plus I think in general we are reasonable people here and this could be ... unnecessary conflict with another group if we insist on staying in the main room
2024-02-21 18:38:36 <@smooge:fedora.im> I am going to agee with Troy on this
2024-02-21 18:39:13 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yeah not worth dying on this hill
2024-02-21 18:39:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> on second thought, I agree it's easier to move. Plus I think in general we are reasonable people here and this could be ... unnecessary conflict with another group if we insist on staying in the main room
2024-02-21 18:39:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> There is also the issue that I don't know anyone in the server group (or don't know if I know anyone)
2024-02-21 18:39:38 <@smooge:fedora.im> we have a lot of other hills to take
2024-02-21 18:39:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> You Only Live Twice
2024-02-21 18:39:57 <@smooge:fedora.im> so i am sort of in the server group
2024-02-21 18:40:05 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> YOLT
2024-02-21 18:40:32 <@tdawson:fedora.im> OK ... sounds like we are in agreement .... Let's not die on this hill ... let's take that hill over there. ... 
2024-02-21 18:40:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> I was sort of in the server group too but don't really have time to commit
2024-02-21 18:40:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Wow ... that sounded so much better in my head.
2024-02-21 18:40:58 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> * Doesn't want to climb any hills right now
2024-02-21 18:41:00 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> the other hill has a bar, I hear
2024-02-21 18:41:27 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> Neil Hanlon: okay, you sold me
2024-02-21 18:42:02 <@salimma:fedora.im> so the plan is to go to the other room, grab a drink, then come back here for our meeting? ;)
2024-02-21 18:42:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll update the calendar and send out an email.
2024-02-21 18:42:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Do we have any other Open Floor items?
2024-02-21 18:43:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> looks like our docs don't have the new time yet, so whoever gets to that first can also change the channel name
2024-02-21 18:43:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ... I forgot about that .... but at least anyone can change the docs, it's only me and nirik that can change the calendar.
2024-02-21 18:43:53 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i can't believe you baited me into opening a PR like that
2024-02-21 18:43:58 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> disgusting!
2024-02-21 18:44:41 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> (I'll fix the docs ;))
2024-02-21 18:44:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you
2024-02-21 18:45:41 <@smooge:fedora.im> ... checks to see if he could still change the calendar... move it to #centos-meeting at 00:00 UTC
2024-02-21 18:45:46 <@tdawson:fedora.im> If nobody else has any open floor items, I do have another one.
2024-02-21 18:46:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> I have one but it's quick - I can go at the end
2024-02-21 18:46:37 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> I have one too, but can go last
2024-02-21 18:46:45 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I won't be around the next two Wedensdays.  Does anyone want to volunteer to run the meeting the next two weeks?
2024-02-21 18:47:12 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i got it
2024-02-21 18:47:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you.
2024-02-21 18:47:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> For those wondering, I will be on an airplane the next two wedensdays.
2024-02-21 18:48:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> With lots of sandy beaches between the airflights.
2024-02-21 18:48:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> oooh
2024-02-21 18:48:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> good chance to promote the penguin shirts
2024-02-21 18:48:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anyway ... that's it for me ... Michel Lind🎩   go for it.
2024-02-21 18:48:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> yup!
2024-02-21 18:49:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> nushell landed last Friday (well, it got pushed on Saturday) in Fedora, and after three more days of frantically branching and building, it's now in EPEL 9 as well (it helps that some dependencies got branched for bat and other tools earlier)

https://hachyderm.io/@michelin/111970811937821323
2024-02-21 18:49:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> nushell.sh <-- for those unfamiliar with it. it's basically a powershell like shell, where everything is structured data. no more need for jc and jq :)
2024-02-21 18:50:14 <@smooge:fedora.im> thanks for the work, I will stick with oldshell
2024-02-21 18:50:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> tbh it will probably be my secondary after fish too
2024-02-21 18:50:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> James Richardson: want to go next?
2024-02-21 18:51:07 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> Thanks Michel Lind🎩 
2024-02-21 18:51:53 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> I don't think there's a "Welcome newcomers" section for these meetings so just wanted to take a second and introduce myself to anyone I haven't worked with before
2024-02-21 18:52:10 <@smooge:fedora.im> Michel Lind🎩: I only program in csh.
2024-02-21 18:52:23 <@smooge:fedora.im> Hi James!
2024-02-21 18:52:32 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> I've been on the Red Hat CPE team for about 2 1/2 years, before that I was the CPE dogsbody (intern) for awhile
2024-02-21 18:52:53 <@salimma:fedora.im> welcome!
2024-02-21 18:52:54 <@smooge:fedora.im> he gets paid in guitars
2024-02-21 18:53:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> 🍻
2024-02-21 18:53:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ohh ... that James.
2024-02-21 18:53:13 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> this past summer, Carl George introduced me (in a very gentle way) to EPEL and I bugged management since then to let me come over
2024-02-21 18:53:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> are you in Ireland James? in which case I'm glad we moved this meeting to be earlier
2024-02-21 18:53:28 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> so it goes :) 
2024-02-21 18:53:35 <@davide:cavalca.name> welcome!
2024-02-21 18:53:38 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> if that's where they money goes anyways, might as well cut out the extra steps
2024-02-21 18:53:42 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> and yes, Stephen J Smoogen you can pay me in guitars anytime
2024-02-21 18:53:42 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> welcome! glad to meet you
2024-02-21 18:53:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> Carl's really good at recruiting :)
2024-02-21 18:54:18 <@smooge:fedora.im> sadly I am still saving up for my double bass guitar to learn to play
2024-02-21 18:54:37 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> for anyone else besides Smooge...I accept beer too
2024-02-21 18:54:44 <@smooge:fedora.im> my wife and son have a larger collection to pay me NOT to learn to play
2024-02-21 18:54:51 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that actually was one of the factors in me suggesting we move to an earlier time.  but there have also been other europeans that have mentioned the inconvenient time before as well.
2024-02-21 18:55:13 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> I am, and thank you again for moving the meeting
2024-02-21 18:55:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> heh, I'm based in the US and I also don't mind frontloading meetings earlier in the day :)
2024-02-21 18:56:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Any other items before we close the meeting?
2024-02-21 18:57:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-02-21 18:57:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-02-21 18:57:25 <@smooge:fedora.im> definitely time to close
2024-02-21 18:57:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Conan Kudo 
2024-02-21 18:57:54 <@smooge:fedora.im> hi Conan Kudo 
2024-02-21 18:57:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for coming ... no matter how short a time ... and thank you all for all you do for EPEL and it's community.
2024-02-21 18:58:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll talk to ya'll in three weeks 
2024-02-21 18:58:43 <@smooge:fedora.im> have a good time! I will not be staging a coup in 7 days
2024-02-21 18:58:51 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Enjoy your vacation Troy Dawson ! We will be grading you on how well you vacation
2024-02-21 18:58:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting