2024-03-13 18:00:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2024-03-13)
2024-03-13 18:00:25 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-03-13 18:00:24 UTC
2024-03-13 18:00:25 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-03-13)'
2024-03-13 18:00:32 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2024-03-13 18:00:38 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2024-03-13 18:00:38 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2024-03-13 18:00:40 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2024-03-13 18:00:46 <@pgreco:fedora.im> !hi
2024-03-13 18:00:47 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)
2024-03-13 18:00:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Robby Callicotte 
2024-03-13 18:00:53 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> !hi
2024-03-13 18:00:54 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> I'm fighting fires, but I'm here
2024-03-13 18:00:55 <@zodbot:fedora.im> James Richardson (jrichardson)
2024-03-13 18:01:20 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2024-03-13 18:01:21 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2024-03-13 18:01:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi James Richardson  and Diego Herrera 
2024-03-13 18:01:52 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-03-13 18:01:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-03-13 18:02:02 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> good afternoon folks 
2024-03-13 18:02:09 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2024-03-13 18:02:11 <@dherrera:fedora.im> some of the regulars should be at SCALE today
2024-03-13 18:02:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Neil Hanlon 
2024-03-13 18:02:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Morning nirik 
2024-03-13 18:03:32 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ah ... it's SCALE week
2024-03-13 18:04:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-03-13 18:04:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-03-13 18:04:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Carl George 
2024-03-13 18:05:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I thought you were going to SCALE this week.
2024-03-13 18:05:16 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i am on my way to scale, but attending from the airport.  was hoping to already be through security, but was running a bit behind
2024-03-13 18:05:48 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> so this meeting, then security, then a meal before my flight.  still plenty of time.
2024-03-13 18:06:01 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> my flight is in 2.5 hrs
2024-03-13 18:06:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> If you say so :) ... always good to have you here.
2024-03-13 18:06:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic End Of Life (EOL)
2024-03-13 18:06:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
https://endoflife.date/rhel
CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
https://endoflife.date/centos-stream

2024-03-13 18:07:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I don't have any witty comments this week ... so moving on.
2024-03-13 18:07:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2024-03-13 18:07:29 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2024-03-13 18:08:02 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We do have one issue marked for the meeting
2024-03-13 18:08:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issue/267
2024-03-13 18:08:49 <@tdawson:fedora.im> For those that haven't read it, this is Neil Hanlon request to joint the epel-packagers-sig
2024-03-13 18:09:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I had a bit of a concern about him being a fairly new EPEL packager, so I went to look at our requirements .... and grew much more concerned.
2024-03-13 18:09:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Because, there aren't any.
2024-03-13 18:09:52 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> As I said in the ticket, valid concerns that I also have about myself.
2024-03-13 18:09:55 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i had similar thoughts when i saw the issue, thus tagging it for the meeting
2024-03-13 18:10:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, I haven't opened an issue yet, but I'm in the process of writting a seperate issue about requirements.
2024-03-13 18:10:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-packagers-sig/#_join_the_epel_packagers_sig
2024-03-13 18:11:11 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Unless someone else is writting an issue about that.
2024-03-13 18:11:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think having at least some suggested requirements would be a good idea.
2024-03-13 18:11:49 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> we both said and documented that this sig would be like proven packagers for epel.  the requirement for that is the sponsors vote on it.  i think our rule should be the same to keep it simple.
2024-03-13 18:11:50 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> What would be valid requirement?  Number of Fedora pkgs already maintained?  Requestor must be a fedora packager for some lenght of time etc?
2024-03-13 18:12:43 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> for provenpackager, i don't think there is an exact number of packages or length of time, although those can certainly factor into it
2024-03-13 18:13:09 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> 🤞 it's "cumulative hours of time derailing meetings"
2024-03-13 18:13:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Well, if you read the paragraph before, for the proven packagers it says "They are a group of skilled package maintainers who are experienced in a wide variety of package types and who are familiar with the packaging guidelines and package maintainer policies, as well as acutely aware of release schedule and freeze policies."
2024-03-13 18:13:21 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> most pp requests i see hinge more on "i have a specific task i'm trying to accomplish that is impeded by not being a pp"
2024-03-13 18:14:01 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> so just being around a long time and doing lots of packages is not, in itself, enough justification
2024-03-13 18:14:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, while that is not really "sepecific" and bit vague, it is still ... something you can point to.
2024-03-13 18:14:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, while that is not really "specific" and bit vague, it is still ... something you can point to.
2024-03-13 18:15:25 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I think also, the documentation page seems to indicate that joining the EPEL packagers sig is a prerequisite for the next heading: "Get to work" which lists things to do.
2024-03-13 18:15:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> True ... but you know ... cut-n-paste. :)
2024-03-13 18:15:41 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I don't believe that's the intent, of course
2024-03-13 18:16:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That is a good point.   Because many of those things can be done by  anyone that is a packager.   Not all of them, but many.
2024-03-13 18:16:52 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> and also speaking for myself, I think anything that I would do with a "EPEL packagers sig" label would be the same as I'd do anyways: i.e., open pull requests and ask questions because I am not yet fully confident in myself and my groking of our policies.
2024-03-13 18:17:09 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> Things seem to have gotten more strict for fedora provenpackager requests in recent years... usually they are asked what they would do that they can't do now... so, some kind of justification/need
2024-03-13 18:17:57 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yes, work happens after joining the sig, but there is also work before joining the sig, which as troy noted is a bit lacking.  nothing personal of course, but i would certainly like to see more epel activity before granting access to all packages that have epel-packagers-sig on them
2024-03-13 18:19:34 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the other aspect to look at, if we just stick to sponsor voting (which i think we should), is if our current number of sponsors is sufficient
2024-03-13 18:19:56 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !link https://accounts.fedoraproject.org/group/epel-packagers-sig/
2024-03-13 18:21:36 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> so with what me and nirik were pointing out about highlighting a need, is there something you're trying to do now that you feel you are blocked/slowed down on by not having that access?
2024-03-13 18:22:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, I'm thinking ... how about a re-write of the page.
2024-03-13 18:23:11 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Truthfully? Feeling as though I'm part of EPEL.

I *am* an EPEL Packager, and I have a Special Interest in it.

Perhaps the name of the group should be amended.
2024-03-13 18:24:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I have to agree, the name of the SIG is ... well ... odd.  Because yes, you Neil Hanlon are a contributing member of the EPEL SIG.
2024-03-13 18:24:12 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> docs could definitely be better
2024-03-13 18:24:40 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> and to be clear: you all have been and continue to be very welcoming, that's not an issue at all.
2024-03-13 18:24:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> But when people see epel-packagers-sig, they think they need to join that to become a part of the EPEL SIG, which they don't.
2024-03-13 18:25:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yeah the naming is not great
2024-03-13 18:25:44 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> you're 100% part of epel, no one should feel they need to be in that sig to be
2024-03-13 18:26:16 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> anyone who has every submitted an epel update is part of epel in my mind.  epel-packagers-sig is an elevated permission.
2024-03-13 18:29:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-03-13 18:29:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, I'm going to timebox this so we can move on.  I'll open a new issue detailing changes to the current docs, with what we have talked about today, and then we can discuss that next week.  Or if I'm really lucky, I'll get PR done that we can talk about.
2024-03-13 18:29:25 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-03-13 18:29:33 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> I have some thoughts, but, they're all a bit messy right now. In short, my request is not for any specific reason (i.e., to solve an immediate need).

I'm happy to work with y'all on documentation and such. Thank you for the comments and discussion.
2024-03-13 18:29:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Conan Kudo 
2024-03-13 18:30:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That was the only issue marked with meeting, moving on.
2024-03-13 18:30:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2024-03-13 18:31:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> One quick old business.  Thank you all (especially Carl) for filling in while I was away.
2024-03-13 18:31:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Do we have any other Old Business that we want to bring up?
2024-03-13 18:32:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm going to bring up one other thing that's old ... epel-10  (or is that new)
2024-03-13 18:33:12 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> impending :) 
2024-03-13 18:33:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We currently have CentOS Stream 10 production composes ... They are so new they aren't even alpha's ... BUT ... the paths and URL's are there if we wanted to start building our scripts.
2024-03-13 18:33:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> are they signed yet?
2024-03-13 18:34:02 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and has the content stripping been completed?
2024-03-13 18:34:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> No, so new they aren't even signed ...
2024-03-13 18:34:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> And no, the content stripping hasn't been completed.
2024-03-13 18:34:26 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i believe James Richardson wanted to poke nirik about this
2024-03-13 18:34:44 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11999
2024-03-13 18:34:48 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> there's a ticket filed a while ago...
2024-03-13 18:34:56 <@jrichardson:matrix.org> Carl George: beat me to it
2024-03-13 18:34:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I am wary of setting EPEL 10 up yet while packages that are intended to be excluded for RHEL 10... haven't yet
2024-03-13 18:34:58 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> but to my understanding there were no compsoes yet. \
2024-03-13 18:35:31 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, seems pretty early. ;)
2024-03-13 18:35:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> nirik: composes exist: https://composes.stream.centos.org/stream-10/production/latest-CentOS-Stream/compose/
2024-03-13 18:35:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I had to test my scripts, and got them to work ... so there are production paths.
2024-03-13 18:35:38 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> for epel9, are we syncing directly from composes, or from the mirror content?
2024-03-13 18:36:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I thought we were syncing from composes ... if we are syncing from mirror content ... well ... that is still a ways away.
2024-03-13 18:36:35 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the rsync module that https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/blob/main/f/roles/batcave/files/centos-9s-sync syncs from isn't publicly accessible to check
2024-03-13 18:36:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> no, we are syncing from mirror content I am pretty sure.
2024-03-13 18:37:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> ah ... then if we are syncing from the mirrors ... then I'll be quiet until we get there.
2024-03-13 18:37:19 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i think it would be worthwhile to get the sync set up initially directly from the production compose link, and then switch it to mirror content later
2024-03-13 18:38:08 <@pgreco:fedora.im> I think that's what was done for 9
2024-03-13 18:38:15 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I see COMPOSE_ID of CentOS-Stream-9-20240311.0 there.
2024-03-13 18:38:46 <@pgreco:fedora.im> first sync from stream until Carl gave the heads up for 9.1 content and then we froze it
2024-03-13 18:38:52 <@pgreco:fedora.im> until release
2024-03-13 18:38:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so is the intent to setup all the epel10 koji stuff? whats the goal to syncing now?
2024-03-13 18:39:31 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> to make sure it all works early?
2024-03-13 18:39:50 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yes, i would like to start the koji setup.  on a related note, is it possible to create a koji build target that isn't wide open for anyone to build against?
2024-03-13 18:39:57 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I guess I was wondering what 'it' was?
2024-03-13 18:39:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> If we want to wait for things to be more stable (signed and more packages trimmed out) I'm fine waiting.  
2024-03-13 18:40:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I am pretty worried people will start using it/depending on it if it's available in koji.
2024-03-13 18:41:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for the purposes of Koji, signed doesn't really matter since no signature validation works there anyway, but packages being trimmed out is important because we could wind up in some strange situations right now
2024-03-13 18:41:07 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> that's what happened with epel9-next, people started building for it before we announced
2024-03-13 18:41:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> nirik: COMPOSE_ID of CentOS-Stream-9-20240311.0 is a production compose.  Yes, it was synced out to the mirrors.  But it's also the latest CS9 compose.
2024-03-13 18:41:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> no, there's no way to restrict a target. You can set policy to prevent tagging tho
2024-03-13 18:41:54 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> we could also just do the koji setup in staging, not prod, which would still benefit from c10 being synced to batcave for the external repo
2024-03-13 18:42:03 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> mind you there isn't a whole lot left to trim, but even after beta there are no guarantees
2024-03-13 18:42:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, setting up things in stg first is a very good idea IMHO.
2024-03-13 18:43:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm good with stg
2024-03-13 18:43:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I don't think people look at stg as much (and realize it gets repaved from time to time anyhow), and having everything set right will make rolling to prod easy
2024-03-13 18:43:46 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> especially since we are going to be using a new tag / branch setup.
2024-03-13 18:44:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> anyhow, sure, we can sync if there's composes now to sync and use them to setup stg.
2024-03-13 18:44:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sounds good.
2024-03-13 18:45:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Not a rush, but I wanted to let you know the paths were there if someone needed them.
2024-03-13 18:45:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Any other Old Business?
2024-03-13 18:46:02 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor
2024-03-13 18:46:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have anything for Open Floor?
2024-03-13 18:47:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> if you're going to scale, i'll be talking a bit about epel during the "centos classroom" session
2024-03-13 18:48:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Cool.   I won't be there, but I didn't know there was a "CentOS Classroom"
2024-03-13 18:49:06 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !link https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/21x/presentations/centos-classroom-and-packaging-workshop
2024-03-13 18:51:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Very nice.
2024-03-13 18:51:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else before we close the meeting?
2024-03-13 18:52:04 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Then let's close early.  Let Carl get through airport security with a bit of extra time.
2024-03-13 18:52:36 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> safe travels Carl George! (and all heading to scale)
2024-03-13 18:52:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for coming.  And thank you all for all the work you do for EPEL and it's community.
2024-03-13 18:52:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Talk to you next week, if not sooner.
2024-03-13 18:53:02 <@pgreco:fedora.im> bye guys, thanks!
2024-03-13 18:53:11 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> first flight was delayed, so i'm in no rush
2024-03-13 18:53:13 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> thanks folks! safe travels Carl
2024-03-13 18:53:18 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting