2024-04-03 18:01:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting EPEL (2024-04-03)
2024-04-03 18:01:22 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-04-03 18:01:21 UTC
2024-04-03 18:01:22 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'EPEL (2024-04-03)'
2024-04-03 18:01:22 <@pgreco:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-03 18:01:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Pablo Sebastian Greco (pgreco)
2024-04-03 18:01:28 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-04-03 18:01:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-04-03 18:01:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname epel
2024-04-03 18:01:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2024-04-03 18:01:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-03 18:01:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-04-03 18:02:12 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2024-04-03 18:02:14 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2024-04-03 18:02:20 <@smooge:fedora.im> EHLO
2024-04-03 18:02:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning.
2024-04-03 18:02:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Davide Cavalca Michel Lind 🎩 Neil Hanlon 
2024-04-03 18:02:41 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-03 18:02:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Yaakov Selkowitz (yselkowitz)
2024-04-03 18:02:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Morning nirik 
2024-04-03 18:03:08 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ehhlloo Stephen J Smoogen 
2024-04-03 18:03:16 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> no STARTTLS? i dunno if i can trust you
2024-04-03 18:03:31 <@dherrera:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-03 18:03:34 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
2024-04-03 18:03:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Pablo Greco 
2024-04-03 18:03:56 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Diego Herrera and yselkowitz 
2024-04-03 18:04:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !hi
2024-04-03 18:04:21 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Carl George (carlwgeorge) - he / him / his
2024-04-03 18:04:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Carl George 
2024-04-03 18:05:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic End Of Life (EOL)
2024-04-03 18:05:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> RHEL 7 / epel-7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
https://endoflife.date/rhel
CentOS Stream 8 / epel-8-next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
CentOS Stream 9 / epel-9-next goes EOL in 2027-05-31
https://endoflife.date/centos-stream

2024-04-03 18:05:25 <@rcallicotte:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-03 18:05:26 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robby Callicotte (rcallicotte) - he / him / his
2024-04-03 18:05:44 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Robby Callicotte 
2024-04-03 18:06:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> EOL for 8 is literally next month. 
2024-04-03 18:06:25 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> twelve more weeks til 7 EOL
2024-04-03 18:06:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry ... epel8-next ... 
2024-04-03 18:06:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Didn't mean to scare anyone too bad.
2024-04-03 18:07:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep ... 7 is getting close too ... I'm starting to get a little antsy.
2024-04-03 18:07:24 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-03 18:07:25 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jonathan Wright (jonathanspw)
2024-04-03 18:07:45 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> All this room changing really throws me off :D
2024-04-03 18:08:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> jonathanspw: What's really frustrating me is that the calendar keeps changing it back.
2024-04-03 18:08:52 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic EPEL Issues https://pagure.io/epel/issues
2024-04-03 18:08:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
2024-04-03 18:09:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We currently only have one issue set for the meeting - https://pagure.io/epel/issue/268
2024-04-03 18:10:28 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I have a pull request up, but I haven't gotten any comments yet.
2024-04-03 18:10:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/epel/pull-request/270
2024-04-03 18:11:17 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i have thoughts but haven't found the time yet to get them all written down as comments
2024-04-03 18:11:18 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> pr seems reasonable to me
2024-04-03 18:11:33 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think the pr looks good... I haven't looked super closely tho
2024-04-03 18:12:20 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> Troy Dawson: do you want to interactively go over feedback here, or just keep it in one place in the pr comments?
2024-04-03 18:12:59 <@pgreco:fedora.im> `You will be able to branch`, has this changed recently?
2024-04-03 18:12:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i don't know how full the agenda is today for open floor stuff
2024-04-03 18:13:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We talked a little bit in the last meeting.  I asked what "Sponsors" were, since I didn't know what it was I had changed it to "SIG members"  But now I know it meant "Group Sponsors"
2024-04-03 18:13:14 <@pgreco:fedora.im> AFAIR, we couldn't request an epel branch on an existing package
2024-04-03 18:13:28 <@pgreco:fedora.im> we could maintain it if the owner requested it though
2024-04-03 18:13:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Pablo Greco: If the epel-packagers-sig group is added to the package, then it can be branched.  If it hasn't, then it can't.
2024-04-03 18:14:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So yes, what you said.   So, if what I wrote isn't clear, go ahead and make a change.
2024-04-03 18:14:39 <@pgreco:fedora.im> ok, so not on any package, got it
2024-04-03 18:14:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> If you have some line by line stuff, put it in the pull request I think.
2024-04-03 18:15:08 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> we did vote on a thing to allow epel-packager-sig members to request epelX-next branches if a package has a corresponding epelX branch, but it hasn't been implemented in fedpkg/fedscm-admin yet
2024-04-03 18:15:12 <@pgreco:fedora.im> that was my only concern, I'm good with the rest
2024-04-03 18:15:24 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> blame me, i said i would do it and haven't gotten around to it yet
2024-04-03 18:15:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh, I forgot about that.
2024-04-03 18:15:52 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> !link https://pagure.io/epel/issue/263
2024-04-03 18:16:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> if anyone is interested in taking over the implementation of this, i'd love the help.  otherwise i'll keep it in my to-do list.
2024-04-03 18:17:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> is this approved in principle?
2024-04-03 18:17:10 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yes, we voted on it
2024-04-03 18:17:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh right
2024-04-03 18:17:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> sorry, I didn't see the "any EPEL package" part
2024-04-03 18:17:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> soon I guess it will just apply to epel9-next. ;)
2024-04-03 18:17:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> this will carry over to, in the future, being able to request epel10, epel11, etc. right?
2024-04-03 18:17:41 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's a relatively minor thing, but it will remove a road block in some scenarios
2024-04-03 18:17:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> so "once it's branched for EPEL we can ask for other EPEL branches"
2024-04-03 18:18:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> alternatively, we could avoid code changes, and just make it a policy only thing that requires the `--exception` flag and waiting for releng
2024-04-03 18:18:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> right, which is why I'm hoping we extend that to cover epel10 too
2024-04-03 18:18:53 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> no, this was explicit for same major version, i.e. epel9-next for a package with epel9
2024-04-03 18:19:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> same principle, epel10 is basically the equivalent of a -next anyway, right
2024-04-03 18:19:11 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I don't think that's what we were voting/discussing.  The problem was that many EPEL packagers are still confused by epel-next, and this would allow us to fix up packages on CentOS Stream 8/9 for them.
2024-04-03 18:19:48 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> with epel10 we won't have this problem, because the leading branch will be epel10, and minor version branches will be done in bulk
2024-04-03 18:20:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think giving the sig the power to branch for EPEL10 (unless it already has permissions) is starting to over-reach it's power.
2024-04-03 18:21:05 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> well there is some nuance there, if the sig is on a package they can request branches
2024-04-03 18:21:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Correct
2024-04-03 18:21:30 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> which is different than this request about the sig having an implied permission on packages it's not explicitly listed on
2024-04-03 18:21:58 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> oh i think that's what you were getting at with the part in parenthesis
2024-04-03 18:22:28 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> agreed in that case
2024-04-03 18:22:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep
2024-04-03 18:22:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah ok. this is constrained to epelX -> epelX-nest
2024-04-03 18:22:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> to fix Stream issues, fair enough
2024-04-03 18:23:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah. I guess the nice part is, if we ever want to be proper "provenpackager for EPEL" with blanket branching request, once this issue is implemented that part won't be too hard
2024-04-03 18:23:51 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think we've gotten a little off topic.  It sounds like some people still have some changes they want to my pull request (including me) ... so it wouldn't be right to vote on it this week.
2024-04-03 18:23:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> but that should be a different vote
2024-04-03 18:24:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I'm not really in favor of 'blanket branching' power... if you want to branch something you should be a maintainer/collaborator. Otherwise you are just driving by...
2024-04-03 18:25:03 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Moving on ...
2024-04-03 18:25:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That was our only "Meetings" issue.
2024-04-03 18:25:31 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Old Business
2024-04-03 18:25:47 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Does anyone have any Old Business they want to bring up?
2024-04-03 18:26:28 <@smooge:fedora.im> My joints ache today
2024-04-03 18:26:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I think any implementation of blanket branching should auto-add epel-packagers-sig to collaborator. so maybe just revisiting the existing stalled policy and tweak the thresholds / automate the processing to be more consistent
2024-04-03 18:27:20 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> for old business, we have an epel10 related pr up for releng to review https://pagure.io/fedora-infra/ansible/pull-request/1878
2024-04-03 18:27:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That's cuz your Old ... and that's your own Business.
2024-04-03 18:27:48 <@smooge:fedora.im> well you asked
2024-04-03 18:28:18 <@smooge:fedora.im> AMAZON YOU GET OFF MY LAWN
2024-04-03 18:28:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: Very nice
2024-04-03 18:29:01 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> do note that we are in freeze right now for f40...
2024-04-03 18:29:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Is that going to staging?  Or is this just creating a repo in general?
2024-04-03 18:29:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> (but this seems easy to get an exception for, I can't see how it would affect anything else)
2024-04-03 18:29:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> just syncing the repo IIRC
2024-04-03 18:30:18 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yup, syncing the repo to batcave, which is what we'll point staging koji to
2024-04-03 18:30:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Cool, it's a nice start.
2024-04-03 18:30:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Any other Old Business?
2024-04-03 18:31:59 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/infra/sysadmin_guide/fedora-releases/#_change_freeze
2024-04-03 18:32:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I have one quick Old Business ... doesn't have to be today, we still have three weeks, but take a look at the election questions - https://pagure.io/epel/issue/269  
2024-04-03 18:32:49 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> thanks, googling got me to an old wiki page
2024-04-03 18:33:05 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> thanks, googling got me to an old wiki page, this is better of course
2024-04-03 18:33:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Moving on ...
2024-04-03 18:33:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic General Issues / Open Floor
2024-04-03 18:33:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: You said you had something for open floor?
2024-04-03 18:34:04 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i concur on dropping the irc questions on the questionnaire
2024-04-03 18:35:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah yes
2024-04-03 18:35:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep.  Those original questions I just cut and pasted from Fedora ones.  Some make sense, but the IRC/Matric ones didn't.
2024-04-03 18:35:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> so - for EPEL updates Bodhi does not run installability tests, while it does for Fedora
2024-04-03 18:36:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> I've been informed it's because Bodhi does not have access to RHEL repos - is that true, and can we ask to get that sorted out?
2024-04-03 18:36:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> uh, you mean fedora-ci?
2024-04-03 18:36:32 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> or ?
2024-04-03 18:36:39 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> testing farm i think
2024-04-03 18:36:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> probably fedora-ci, yeah. from the user/packager POV the results show up in Bodhi :)
2024-04-03 18:36:59 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, so to my understanding that was actually fixed.
2024-04-03 18:37:07 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> we've asked the team that added the checks, but basically got blown off
2024-04-03 18:37:20 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> also the tests don't run consistently on fedora either
2024-04-03 18:37:35 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://pagure.io/fedora-ci/general/issue/454
2024-04-03 18:37:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, interesting. https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-b64b18fabe runs tests while https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-EPEL-2024-cdf27e2aa6 does not
2024-04-03 18:37:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> same package, same spec, just different build targets
2024-04-03 18:37:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> thats zuul tho, so perhaps not what you meant?
2024-04-03 18:38:29 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> is https://artifacts.dev.testing-farm.io/83074824-7f7d-46b7-b8f2-9a646495a6ee/ zuul?
2024-04-03 18:39:01 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> (linked from the "automated tests" tab in bodhi)
2024-04-03 18:39:22 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> no... there's zuul (mostly testing pr's, upstream projects), fedora-ci/testing-farm testing updates and openqa testing updates.
2024-04-03 18:39:23 <@smooge:fedora.im> https://docs.testing-farm.io/Testing%20Farm/0.1/index.html
2024-04-03 18:39:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah. so yeah this one is for fedora-ci/testing-farm
2024-04-03 18:39:44 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> (at least thats my understanding)
2024-04-03 18:39:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> There is a #fedora-ci:fedoraproject.org room where they hang out, could ask there?
2024-04-03 18:40:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> so this is more needed on EPEL than on Fedora - on Fedora if you mess up and publish an update where some subpackages don't install, eventually you get a bugzilla FTI issue
2024-04-03 18:40:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> on EPEL we don't have that yet, so being able to get a "hey, this does not install" automated check is extra useful
2024-04-03 18:40:53 <@smooge:fedora.im> zuul's pages are at https://zuul-ci.org/docs/zuul/8.1.0/ and it looks to use the testing farm for part of its work 
2024-04-03 18:41:05 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> if the folks in fedora-ci have some backchannels to get the testing farm folks to fix this, that would be great
2024-04-03 18:41:30 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I'd say definitely talk and see if we can get some testing working or fix issues...
2024-04-03 18:42:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> I can follow up with Adam in the QA channel
2024-04-03 18:42:08 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> there shouldn't be a blocker to getting rhel, but it's easy to see how that can get unnecessarily complicated
2024-04-03 18:42:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> but it's a separate issue from #454 right?
2024-04-03 18:43:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> I also have a more ambituous proposal of asking if we can check if the update would make /something else/ FTI, but that's also something for discussion with QA anyway
2024-04-03 18:43:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think they just don't run epel updates thru testing right now? but I don't know if thats just because no one asked or if they have resource issues or what.
2024-04-03 18:44:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> right, maybe it will just work and it's just not turned on yet
2024-04-03 18:44:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It would be nice.  My "will it install" was always meant to be a temporary fill in.  Getting something official would be nice.
2024-04-03 18:45:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, having both the fedora-ci check and FTI tasks filed will be great
2024-04-03 18:45:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> (me cries in Hyperscale where we don't even have Bodhi)
2024-04-03 18:45:42 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> just in the last few weeks Stephen J Smoogen brought up another epel package that was added and didn't install, dante
2024-04-03 18:46:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Is anyone going to be following up on this?  I see lots of good discussion, but I might have missed someone taking some action.
2024-04-03 18:47:05 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, I'll follow up with QA. do we need an issue, or just an action?
2024-04-03 18:47:36 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: If you need an issue, we can make one.  Up to you.
2024-04-03 18:48:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh wait... CI != QA?
2024-04-03 18:49:02 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yes, they are completely different groups of people...
2024-04-03 18:49:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> !action salimma to follow up with CI on enabling installability checks for EPEL
2024-04-03 18:49:56 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Michel Lind 🎩: Thank you
2024-04-03 18:50:21 <@tdawson:fedora.im> nirik: You said you had something for Open Floor as well?
2024-04-03 18:51:09 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> oh yeah, there's a discussion on the mirror-admin list about increase in repodata requests.
2024-04-03 18:51:21 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> It's starting to sound like people are thinking it's rhel7 eol traffic...
2024-04-03 18:51:38 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> but we may never know. :) but if anyone has insights, take a look.
2024-04-03 18:52:04 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/mirror-admin@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/37HFTJPW2ELUEZCSPW5RSF3GFS2BHQ5P/
2024-04-03 18:52:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Doesn't it show in the logs?
2024-04-03 18:52:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> it does seem to be epel7... but it's _all_ the repodata...
2024-04-03 18:52:42 <@smooge:fedora.im> EL7 yum does not give a strong 'key' to say what is being requested by whom
2024-04-03 18:53:33 <@smooge:fedora.im> and the tooling for leaapp etc may use slightly different variations
2024-04-03 18:53:58 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ah ... ok.
2024-04-03 18:54:54 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> in any case if it's 7 it will go away in a while. ;)
2024-04-03 18:55:24 <@smooge:fedora.im> hahahahah
2024-04-03 18:55:27 <@smooge:fedora.im> hahahahahahha
2024-04-03 18:55:38 <@smooge:fedora.im> sorry I remember us saying that about EL6
2024-04-03 18:55:49 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Twelve more weeks ...
2024-04-03 18:55:54 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> I guess leapp *might* explain it?
2024-04-03 18:55:56 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> the thread mentions 8 as well
2024-04-03 18:56:30 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> in fact the examples given for requests "every few minutes" are epel8
2024-04-03 18:56:33 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> would have to be either RH leapp or alma elevate.  for the latter I could try to correlate it to logs on our end for the elvate repo, hold on
2024-04-03 18:56:50 <@smooge:fedora.im> It is a guess on my part. I am seeing a lot of people asking about upgrading from 7 in various places starting around when the person said 'I started seeing bad traffic in March'
2024-04-03 18:57:39 <@smooge:fedora.im> 'bad traffic' being more EPEL traffic asking for a lot of files
2024-04-03 18:57:44 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I'm not sure whats going on, but we can look for more patterns, or just see if it goes away.
2024-04-03 18:59:01 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> definitely wonky; i'm gonna look at the primary mirror logs for rocky and see if I see any patterns that stand out. obviously it's not EPEL directly, but it should give some indication 
2024-04-03 18:59:12 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Our time is almost up.  Is there anything else urgent people want to bring up before we close?
2024-04-03 19:00:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for coming, and thank you for the very good discussions.
2024-04-03 19:00:14 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> Thanks for chairing Troy Dawson !
2024-04-03 19:00:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll talk to ya'll next week, if not sooner.
2024-04-03 19:00:19 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> take care, folks
2024-04-03 19:00:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting