16:01:49 <adamw> #startmeeting F30-blocker-review
16:01:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 25 16:01:49 2019 UTC.
16:01:49 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:01:49 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:01:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'f30-blocker-review'
16:01:49 <adamw> #meetingname F30-blocker-review
16:01:49 <adamw> #topic Roll Call
16:01:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'f30-blocker-review'
16:01:52 <adamw> evening!
16:01:59 <adamw> who's around for blocker review fun?
16:02:03 <frantisekz> .hello2
16:02:04 <zodbot> frantisekz: frantisekz 'František Zatloukal' <fzatlouk@redhat.com>
16:02:15 <coremodule> do you promise fun?
16:02:21 <coremodule> .hello2
16:02:22 <zodbot> coremodule: coremodule 'Geoffrey Marr' <gmarr@redhat.com>
16:02:29 * satellit listening
16:03:07 <bcotton> .hello2
16:03:09 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
16:03:40 <Lailah> .fas lailah
16:03:41 <zodbot> Lailah: lailah 'Sylvia Sánchez' <BHKohane@gmail.com>
16:05:19 <adamw> hi folks
16:05:21 <adamw> thanks for coming
16:05:23 <frantisekz> hi
16:05:30 <Lailah> Meh... my bluetooth mouse is dying....
16:06:04 * jlanda waves
16:06:20 * Lailah waves back
16:07:42 <adamw> Lailah: time to learn keyboard navigation :)
16:07:49 <Lailah> I'm going to turn my laptop off and back on to see if my mouse comes back to life.  If not, I'll carry on with the touchpad.
16:07:53 <adamw> coremodule: i promise *someone somewhere* is going to have some fun
16:08:03 <coremodule> ...I can't argue that
16:08:04 <Lailah> Eh, I have the touchpad but I need to clean it, haha
16:08:08 <adamw> Lailah: we'll do the boiler plate while you're gone then =)
16:08:20 <Lailah> Okay
16:08:21 <adamw> #chair coremodule jlanda
16:08:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw coremodule jlanda
16:08:27 <adamw> #topic Introduction
16:08:27 <adamw> Why are we here?
16:08:27 <adamw> #info Our purpose in this meeting is to review proposed blocker and nice-to-have bugs and decide whether to accept them, and to monitor the progress of fixing existing accepted blocker and nice-to-have bugs.
16:08:27 <adamw> #info We'll be following the process outlined at:
16:08:29 <adamw> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting
16:08:29 <adamw> #info The bugs up for review today are available at:
16:08:31 <adamw> #link http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/current
16:08:33 <adamw> #info The criteria for release blocking bugs can be found at:
16:08:35 <adamw> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Basic_Release_Criteria
16:08:37 <adamw> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_30_Beta_Release_Criteria
16:08:39 <adamw> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_30_Final_Release_Criteria
16:09:12 * kparal lurks
16:09:19 * adamw throws things at kparal
16:09:38 * kparal hides deeper in shadows
16:09:46 <frantisekz> .fire kparal
16:09:46 <zodbot> adamw fires kparal
16:09:48 <adamw> #info for Beta we have:
16:09:49 <adamw> #info 0 Proposed Blockers
16:09:54 <adamw> #info 1 Accepted Blockers
16:09:58 <adamw> #info 6 Proposed Freeze Exceptions
16:09:58 <adamw> #info 5 Accepted Freeze Exceptions
16:10:13 <adamw> #info for Final we have:
16:10:14 <adamw> #info 5 Proposed Blockers
16:10:14 <adamw> #info 3 Accepted Blockers
16:10:48 <jlanda> final block party begins
16:11:02 <adamw> ....meeting may be slightly hindered by the moderator's cat attempting to eat his mouse cursor
16:11:04 <Lailah> Hi
16:11:08 <Lailah> I'm back
16:11:10 <adamw> hi lailah
16:11:17 <Lailah> With a working mouse :-P
16:11:26 <adamw> yay
16:11:41 <adamw> #info as Beta release is the key right now, we'll start with the Bet accepted blocker
16:11:51 <Lailah> I should file a bug for this, it's not the first time I get issues with Bluetooth.
16:11:53 <jlanda> we'll have to block on 'missing mices on qa team'
16:12:02 * coremodule will secretarialize too, btw
16:12:14 <adamw> #info coremodule will secretarialize
16:12:17 <adamw> thanks coremodule
16:12:23 <coremodule> :)
16:12:31 <adamw> #topic (1690566) Arm desktops do not have a browser
16:12:31 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1690566
16:12:31 <adamw> #info Accepted Blocker, spin-kickstarts, ON_QA
16:12:41 <adamw> so, this *should* be fixed in the new compose, but awaiting confirmation
16:12:47 <adamw> i asked pwhalen but he hasn't replied yet; has anyone else checked?
16:13:17 <jlanda> [16:30:37] <pwhalen> adamw, yes, browser tests complete
16:13:22 <jlanda> he replied :)
16:13:30 <adamw> ooh, missed that - thansk!
16:13:40 <Lailah> So this blocker is not a blocker...
16:13:44 <adamw> #info this is reported fixed by pwhalen, so we will close it
16:15:25 <adamw> OK, that's the only outstanding proposed/accepted beta blocker
16:15:40 <adamw> before we move on, does anyone have anything they think ought to be a beta blocker which is not formally proposed as one?
16:15:54 <jlanda> no on my side
16:16:07 <frantisekz> adamw, this might be: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1692323
16:16:13 <bcotton> nope! :p
16:16:13 <frantisekz> I have proposed it as a final
16:16:28 <frantisekz> but, I have no idea how big percentage of hw is affected
16:17:16 <adamw> well, that will come up later in the meeting, so that's OK
16:17:21 <jlanda> what hw did you try frantisekz?
16:17:30 <frantisekz> it's in the bug report
16:17:31 <adamw> #info moving onto proposed Beta FEs just in case we do respin for any other reason
16:17:35 <jlanda> er, we can talk later, go on adamw ;)
16:17:51 <adamw> sorry, thanks :)
16:18:44 <adamw> #topic (1691909) GDM fallback from Wayland to X11 no longer works because it takes too long to start gnome-shell (affects 'basic graphics mode' / nomodeset, maybe other cases)
16:18:45 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1691909
16:18:45 <adamw> #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, gdm, NEW
16:19:38 <frantisekz> FE for sure, but I have a feeling that we won't have a fix before beta
16:19:52 <adamw> so this one we kicked out of the blocker list, but i think it'd be reasonable to give it an FE, though depending on the complexity of the fix we ultimately might not want to take it
16:20:11 <jlanda> this could be a killling-combo with the nomodeset one. You start on normal video, it stucks on fallback "oh god, this is frozen, lets reboot in basic mode", and tata :D
16:20:22 <Lailah> Oh, let me read. A moment please, my internet is awfully slow
16:20:24 <adamw> oh sorry, this is the other bug i found
16:20:25 <bcotton> i'm a little nervous about granting an FE before we even know what the fix looks like
16:20:35 <frantisekz> yeah, fair point
16:20:57 <adamw> jlanda: well, the case this bug most commonly affects is actually...nomodeset
16:21:29 <jlanda> adamw yeah sure, and more critical to fix, just thinking on what could I do if I found a similar situation :D
16:21:51 * satellit the long delay at GDM in bios boot of workstation seems fixed in beta 1.7 on bare metal   was this related?
16:22:21 * satellit https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1691918#c4
16:22:36 <jlanda> oh, your t400 uses to hit all this bugs satellit, no prob on your side with 1.7 ?
16:22:42 <jlanda> that's interesting :D
16:23:10 <satellit> fallback working now?
16:24:00 <adamw> nothing changed in the beta compose that should affect this bug in any way.
16:24:50 * Lailah cussing the internet connection
16:25:01 <satellit> also saw this in everything netinstall of workstation on T0400 2 days ago
16:25:08 <Lailah> I can't read the bugs, I don't know what you all talking about
16:25:16 <lruzicka> .hello2
16:25:17 <zodbot> lruzicka: lruzicka 'Lukáš Růžička' <lruzicka@redhat.com>
16:25:18 * pwhalen is here
16:26:05 <adamw> hi pwhalen
16:26:13 <adamw> so...votes on this?
16:26:31 <Lailah> Hi Iruzicka
16:26:32 <frantisekz> +1 punt
16:26:37 <Lailah> Hi lruzicka
16:26:47 <Lailah> +1 punt
16:27:04 <bcotton> +1 punt until there's a proposed solution..or at least something that vaguely resembles one
16:27:14 <jlanda> I don't have a clear position since dunno how many people could be affected, and +1 to bcotton's concerns. but punting FE without blockers has no too much sense neither...
16:27:37 <jlanda> so for beta fe, dunno, +0. for finals, +1 punt everything
16:29:06 <adamw> proposed #agreed #1691909 - delay decision (punt) - in general folks seemed to feel they couldn't vote on this without a clearer understanding of what a possible fix might look like
16:29:11 <bcotton> ack
16:29:11 <jlanda> ack
16:29:27 <coremodule> ack
16:29:39 <pwhalen> ack
16:29:39 <lruzicka> ack
16:30:27 <satellit> ack
16:30:46 <adamw> #agreed #1691909 - delay decision (punt) - in general folks seemed to feel they couldn't vote on this without a clearer understanding of what a possible fix might look like
16:30:54 <adamw> #topic (1691674) searching for language causes gnome-control-center to crash
16:30:54 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1691674
16:30:55 <adamw> #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, gnome-control-center, NEW
16:31:40 <jlanda> reproduced on live, so +1 fe. anyhow, this could be an infinite arguing final blocker. us vs europe :D
16:31:46 <adamw> this does look like a dupe of the earlier bug (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1685251)
16:32:03 <adamw> it's not proposed as a final blocker yet, but yeah, it's fairly unfortunate...
16:32:06 <adamw> +1 FE for sure
16:32:28 <coremodule> +1 FE
16:33:02 <pwhalen> +1 FE
16:33:36 <frantisekz> +1 FE
16:33:43 <lruzicka> +1 FE
16:33:54 <bcotton> +1 FE
16:35:12 <Kohane> Sorry, my connection is a slug
16:35:20 <Kohane> What did I miss?
16:35:24 <Kohane> I'm Lailah
16:35:32 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1691674 / 1685251 - AcceptedFreezeException (Beta) - this is a fairly prominent crasher that is visible in the live image and so cannot be fixed with an update. Note we will close the bug as a duplicate of the earlier 1685251 (which has a backtrace) and mark that as accepted.
16:35:41 <jlanda> <ack
16:35:46 <Kohane> ack
16:35:48 <adamw> Kohane: we're on 1691674 and we're accepting it
16:35:52 <coremodule> ack
16:35:54 <frantisekz> ack
16:35:56 <bcotton> ack
16:36:01 <Kohane> Ah, okay. Thanks adamw
16:36:03 <adamw> #agreed 1691674 / 1685251 - AcceptedFreezeException (Beta) - this is a fairly prominent crasher that is visible in the live image and so cannot be fixed with an update. Note we will close the bug as a duplicate of the earlier 1685251 (which has a backtrace) and mark that as accepted.
16:36:27 <pwhalen> ack
16:36:46 <frantisekz> what? late ack!!!!!!!!!! :D
16:36:53 <adamw> #topic (1690429) sometimes icon not showing for eg firefox in gnome-shell overview dash
16:36:53 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1690429
16:36:53 <adamw> #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, gnome-shell, NEW
16:37:13 <pwhalen> frantisekz, :)
16:37:20 <jlanda> this is not just with ff, it appears with the first icon on the dash
16:38:08 <bcotton> +1 FE
16:38:13 <jlanda> +1 beta fe. for final, could be interesting to know wks sig opinion
16:38:33 <frantisekz> +1 FE
16:38:44 <pwhalen> +1 FE
16:39:09 <Kohane> +1 FE
16:39:39 <lruzicka> +1 FE3
16:40:09 <adamw> i'd be a bit worried about what else a fix for this might break, but i guess it's serious enough to warrant an FE on principle and we can review the safeness of the fix if one shows up...
16:40:40 <frantisekz> yeah, sure
16:40:58 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1690429 - AcceptedFreezeException (Beta) - this is a very visible issue in core functionality of the default desktop, affects lives so cannot be fully fixed with an update
16:41:05 <frantisekz> ack
16:41:08 <jlanda> upstream issue is growing on reports but nothing else :S
16:41:09 <pwhalen> ack
16:41:15 <lruzicka> ack
16:41:17 <bcotton> ack
16:41:18 <jlanda> ack
16:41:19 <Kohane> ack
16:41:49 <bcotton> i misunderstood "affects lives" at first :-)
16:41:59 <frantisekz> :D
16:42:00 <Kohane> LOL
16:42:55 <jlanda> kitty lives bcotton :D
16:43:09 <adamw> #agreed 1690429 - AcceptedFreezeException (Beta) - this is a very visible issue in core functionality of the default desktop, affects lives so cannot be fully fixed with an update
16:43:21 <adamw> bcotton: last I *checked* the ISS does not run on fedora, thankfully
16:43:23 <jlanda> we just worry about felines
16:43:41 <Kohane> «affects lives»  hihihihi
16:43:48 <Kohane> Sorry...
16:43:52 <Kohane> I can't help it
16:43:54 <adamw> given elon musk's temperament i can't absolutely guarantee Autopilot doesn't, though...
16:44:18 <jlanda> he runs rawhide, so no worry on blockers :D
16:44:22 <Kohane> jlanda:  felines are the only ones that matter
16:44:32 <adamw> #topic (1692132) mu doesn't install, blocks Python Classroom Lab image build
16:44:32 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1692132
16:44:32 <adamw> #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, mu, ON_QA
16:44:41 <adamw> this should actually be an automatic FE, i think
16:44:58 <adamw> #info this is an automatic FE per " Bugs which entirely prevent the composition of one or more of the non-release-blocking images required to be built for a currently-pending (pre-)release" - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_freeze_exception_bug_process#Automatic_freeze_exceptions
16:44:59 <jlanda> +1 fe, doesn't hurt and can build a new image :D
16:45:03 <adamw> #info will be accepted
16:45:09 <bcotton> agreed. the only question is if we request a new rc
16:45:18 <adamw> #topic (1688082) [ko] Hangul input does not commit in Terminal, Firefox urlbar, Libreoffice
16:45:18 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1688082
16:45:18 <adamw> #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, mutter, POST
16:45:25 <adamw> bcotton: by policy we do not
16:45:39 <bcotton> adamw: easy enough
16:45:47 <jlanda> until kparal finds a new blocker
16:45:58 <adamw> right
16:46:00 <jlanda> then it can go in together :D
16:46:01 <bcotton> shhh jlanda
16:46:01 * kparal is safely isolated
16:46:14 <Kohane> LOL
16:46:28 <kparal> I'll start looking on Thursday
16:46:38 <Kohane> So kparal can't find new blockers?
16:46:40 <jlanda> you should talk to brno it folks to tether kparal's ethernet
16:46:47 <lruzicka> Kamil Paral rebirth, from the director of "Bug fighter", coming next week
16:46:47 <jlanda> that way he can't burn any iso...
16:47:13 <bcotton> so this was an accepted 29 blocker?
16:47:26 <Kohane> I think so...
16:47:29 <Kohane> 29?
16:47:39 <Kohane> Shouldn't be 30?
16:47:45 <adamw> the same bug existed in f29
16:47:49 <Kohane> Ah
16:47:56 <adamw> a workaround was put into gnome that didn't make it into the gnome that's in f30
16:48:10 <Kohane> And it's still there unfixed or it just came back from the cold?
16:48:45 <jlanda> or our .patch went out
16:48:52 <adamw> +1 FE, anyway, input not working is obviously bad
16:48:59 <frantisekz> +1 FE
16:49:05 <bcotton> +1 FE
16:49:08 <jlanda> +1 fe
16:49:08 <adamw> it happened upstream, a fix/workaround was merged on 3.30 branch but not master
16:49:19 <Kohane> +1 FE
16:49:19 <lruzicka> +1 FE
16:49:32 <coremodule> +1 fE
16:49:35 <Kohane> adamw: Ah, okay, thanks for the explanation
16:50:12 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1688082 - AcceptedFreezeException (Beta) - input not working in major applications is obviously a serious bug, and affects live image so cannot be fully fixed with an update
16:50:17 <jlanda> ack
16:50:21 <bcotton> ack
16:50:22 <frantisekz> ack
16:50:28 <Kohane> ack
16:50:33 <coremodule> ack
16:51:21 <lruzicka> ack
16:51:27 <adamw> #agreed 1688082 - AcceptedFreezeException (Beta) - input not working in major applications is obviously a serious bug, and affects live image so cannot be fully fixed with an update
16:51:33 <adamw> #topic (1683197) gdm Fails to load with "nomodeset"
16:51:33 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1683197
16:51:33 <adamw> #info Proposed Freeze Exceptions, xorg-x11-drv-qxl, ASSIGNED
16:51:45 <adamw> so this is the OG basic graphics/nomodeset bug, the one we rejected as a blocker
16:51:57 <adamw> we didn't decide whether or not it should be FE, though, so i threw it on the proposed list
16:52:03 <frantisekz> +1 FE , but I would rather see the fix before pulling it right into the beta
16:52:06 <coremodule> nice to have
16:52:15 <coremodule> +1 FE
16:52:17 <bcotton> +1 FE,what frantisekz said
16:52:24 <Kohane> +1 FE
16:52:30 <jlanda> +1 to frantisekz's conditiones FE
16:52:41 <jlanda> anyhow, we need a blocker to get it in :D
16:53:07 <lruzicka> +1 FE
16:53:21 <jlanda> s/conditiones/conditioned
16:53:26 <pwhalen> +1 FE
16:53:35 <adamw> conditiones! they're like mexican conditions
16:53:46 <jlanda> yeah :D
16:53:52 <coremodule> lol
16:54:08 <Kohane> adamw: condiciones
16:54:18 <adamw> stop being correct damnit
16:54:19 <adamw> =)
16:54:23 <Kohane> LOL
16:55:18 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1683197 - AcceptedFreezeException (Beta) - this is sufficiently serious to accept as an FE (and cannot be fixed with an update), but any fix may be dangerous so we may not ultimately decide to pull one in if the situation arises
16:55:25 <jlanda> conditiones would be condicionado actually :D ack
16:55:30 <bcotton> ack
16:56:05 <lruzicka> ack
16:56:10 <Kohane> ack
16:56:11 <pwhalen> ack
16:56:12 <frantisekz> ack
16:57:26 <coremodule> ack
16:59:48 <adamw> #agreed 1683197 - AcceptedFreezeException (Beta) - this is sufficiently serious to accept as an FE (and cannot be fixed with an update), but any fix may be dangerous so we may not ultimately decide to pull one in if the situation arises
17:00:08 <Kohane> Why do you send the same twice?
17:00:17 <frantisekz> what?
17:00:19 <adamw> the first is a proposal
17:00:26 <adamw> the second is the actual agreement
17:00:29 <Kohane> Ah
17:00:33 <Kohane> Okay
17:00:34 <adamw> we do this just to ensure everyone is OK with the text
17:00:36 <Kohane> Sorry
17:00:42 <adamw> since it's the thing that goes on the record forever
17:00:46 <Kohane> Yeah, yeah, I just got confused
17:00:49 <adamw> #info moving onto proposed Final blockers
17:00:50 <adamw> no problem :)
17:01:17 <Kohane> My connection is really bad, so messages come in little batches.
17:01:34 <Kohane> I got confused, sorry
17:02:04 <adamw> many of these are the same as were proposed as Beta FEs, note
17:02:11 <adamw> let's start with the two nomodeset blockers
17:02:12 <adamw> #topic (1691909) GDM fallback from Wayland to X11 no longer works because it takes too long to start gnome-shell (affects 'basic graphics mode' / nomodeset, maybe other cases)
17:02:12 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1691909
17:02:12 <adamw> #info Proposed Blocker, gdm, NEW
17:02:40 <adamw> so, i think we can't really vote on either of these till we decide whether the basic graphics criterion should go to Final or just be removed
17:02:48 <cmurf> that's new
17:02:51 <bcotton> agreed
17:02:54 <jlanda> on this one go/no-go agreed to temporary drop the criteria itself until 9st april (or similar date)
17:02:59 <frantisekz> yeah, should we vote on the criterion now?
17:03:01 <jlanda> so, yeah, we can't decide
17:03:17 <cmurf> ahh ok so it's related to nomodeset
17:03:24 <adamw> frantisekz: nah, we should have a list discussion
17:03:30 <adamw> although, technically this affects more than just nomodeset
17:03:33 <adamw> that's just the most common case
17:03:37 <jlanda> the always-on nomodeset bug cmurf
17:03:38 <cmurf> if nomodeset then wayland doesn't work and also doens't fall back (?)
17:03:45 <adamw> it would also affect any other case where we expect wayland to x11 fallback to work
17:03:47 <jlanda> it just changes the component, but is the very same bug :D
17:03:58 <adamw> cmurf: no, that's not quite it
17:04:04 <adamw> nomodeset *always* relies on the fallback
17:04:10 <cmurf> oic
17:04:13 <adamw> nomodeset and gnome-on-wayland are just fundamentally incompatible
17:04:20 <adamw> if you use nomodeset you will always wind up in X
17:04:21 <cmurf> gotcha
17:04:22 <frantisekz> I think this would also help on arm, which I've had issues with on rpi3 and GNOME
17:04:54 <adamw> so, one of the original reasons the fallback was implemented, IIRC, is that wayland doesn't support certain multiple-output configurations
17:04:58 <jlanda> imo, we should punt all the nomodeset things and start a list discuss about the criteria and have something defined for the deadline agreed on the go/no-go meeting
17:05:01 <adamw> i'd have to look up the details of that and see if it still applies, though
17:05:08 * satellit on T-400 with workstation usb beta 1.7 stuck on basic graphics boot at started GNOME display manager   waiting for 4 min atm
17:05:39 <adamw> i think there's at least potentially a case that we should block on this even if we don't block on 'basic graphics' mode. but we probably need to be sure what other cases still rely on the fallback to make that decision.
17:05:51 <jlanda> adamw: nvdiias for sure
17:05:56 <jlanda> ar, nvidias*
17:06:00 <adamw> jlanda: no, that's not accurate
17:06:06 <adamw> *some* nvidias, maybe.
17:06:18 <adamw> the majority work just fine on wayland with nouveau.
17:06:40 <lruzicka> but nvidias do appear in many configurations, so we should be very careful about lowering standards for bugs like this
17:06:53 <adamw> only ones for which both nouveau and the generic 'modesetting' driver have no support at all would automatically rely on the fallback, i think
17:07:17 <jlanda> sure, some. on my tests the most problematic setups with nvidias are closed drivers or nouveau with the latest nvidia gpu
17:07:33 <satellit> why does cinnamon do a fallback but not workstation?
17:07:55 <adamw> it's a timing issue.
17:08:01 <Kohane> I think Cinnamon doesn't support Wayland yet...
17:08:33 <adamw> anyway, i'm gonna say punt on this one
17:08:47 <adamw> i'll try to get more clarity on how commonly the fallback is needed outside of nomodeset-on-BIOS
17:08:53 <bcotton> +1 punt
17:08:57 <cmurf> +1 punt
17:09:03 <Kohane> +1 punt
17:09:05 <adamw> (oh yeah, sidebar, nomodeset-on-UEFI *does* support mode setting and use wayland)
17:09:21 <jlanda> +1 punt
17:09:29 <lruzicka> +1 punt
17:09:32 <frantisekz> +1 punt
17:09:33 <pwhalen> +1 punt
17:09:33 <cmurf> lol
17:09:43 <cmurf> video stuff is complicated
17:10:22 <lruzicka> but desktop stuff atracts users
17:11:53 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1691909 - punt (delay decision) - this issue affects 'basic graphics' on BIOS, so in part we are delaying the decision to after we decide whether the 'basic graphics' criterion will continue to apply to Final. we also want to look further into what other cases still rely on the X11 fallback
17:12:08 <jlanda> ack
17:12:09 <bcotton> ack
17:12:11 <frantisekz> ack
17:12:13 <Kohane> ack
17:13:10 <adamw> #agreed 1691909 - punt (delay decision) - this issue affects 'basic graphics' on BIOS, so in part we are delaying the decision to after we decide whether the 'basic graphics' criterion will continue to apply to Final. we also want to look further into what other cases still rely on the X11 fallback
17:14:03 <adamw> #topic (1683197) gdm Fails to load with "nomodeset"
17:14:03 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1683197
17:14:03 <adamw> #info Proposed Blocker, xorg-x11-drv-qxl, ASSIGNED
17:14:12 <adamw> so, let's just do the other one
17:14:17 <adamw> again i'd say punt, this one purely for the criterion decision
17:14:27 <Kohane> Yes, I agree
17:14:35 <bcotton> +1 punt
17:14:40 <lruzicka> +1 punt
17:14:49 <frantisekz> +1 punt
17:14:51 <pwhalen> +1 punt
17:15:05 <cmurf> +1 short punt
17:15:18 <Kohane> +1 punt
17:15:39 <jlanda> +1
17:17:05 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1683197 - punt (delay decision) - this bug is specifically about the 'basic graphics' boot option failing, so we cannot make a decision on it until the fate of the relevant criterion is decided (whether it is kept as a Final criterion or not)
17:17:14 <bcotton> ack
17:17:21 <pwhalen> ack
17:17:22 <frantisekz> ack
17:17:33 <adamw> #agreed 1683197 - punt (delay decision) - this bug is specifically about the 'basic graphics' boot option failing, so we cannot make a decision on it until the fate of the relevant criterion is decided (whether it is kept as a Final criterion or not)
17:17:36 <jlanda> ack
17:17:37 <adamw> #topic (1690429) sometimes icon not showing for eg firefox in gnome-shell overview dash
17:17:38 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1690429
17:17:38 <adamw> #info Proposed Blocker, gnome-shell, NEW
17:17:56 <adamw> honestly, i'm not sure this entirely passes the 'final blocker' test
17:18:00 <adamw> it's annoying, yeah...
17:18:05 <adamw> it doesn't fundamentally break anything?
17:18:06 <jlanda> Default panel functionality
17:18:06 <jlanda> All elements of the default panel (or equivalent) configuration in all release-blocking desktops must function correctly in typical use.
17:18:11 <adamw> i guess it's very visible and kinda embarrassing, though
17:18:16 <adamw> true
17:18:20 <jlanda> well, clicking a icon is typical use
17:18:38 <Kohane> Personally I see it as an annoying issue but no more than that
17:19:27 <adamw> yeah, i think jlanda has a good point, this does seem to hit that criterion pretty solidly
17:19:29 <jlanda> dash is default panel or equivalent and clicking typical use, so +1 final blocker
17:19:42 <Kohane> Okay
17:19:46 <coremodule> it doesn't break anything
17:20:00 <cmurf> hmmmm
17:20:12 <coremodule> it just... doesn't look nice
17:20:15 <cmurf> "all elements...must function correctly"
17:20:24 <coremodule> what cmurf said ^^
17:20:25 <Kohane> But it's functioning
17:20:36 <Kohane> It's just not looking as good as it should
17:20:50 <bcotton> 0 final blocker
17:21:02 <Kohane> But if you click on it, on that square or whatever that shows up instead of the icon...  Firefox is launched
17:21:06 <adamw> i mean, the icon that's broken is not 'functioning', is it?
17:21:10 <Kohane> Am I correct, adamw ?
17:21:10 <adamw> you can't click on it, it's not visible
17:21:17 <cmurf> i'm looking at the screenshot and I'd say it'd not functioning
17:21:19 <adamw> nothing shows up 'instead of' the icon
17:21:20 <cmurf> its
17:21:24 <coremodule> I think correct function would be actually displaying an icon... although I can see that if it came down to this one bug blocking the whole release, I'd be inclined to grant an exception...
17:21:28 <coremodule> yeah, you can click on it
17:21:28 <adamw> it is 0 height, so as far as the user is concerned it's not there
17:21:29 <Kohane> Aaahaa
17:21:31 <coremodule> its just very small
17:21:35 <adamw> oh ok, heh
17:21:39 <Kohane> Now I get it
17:21:43 <adamw> i guess there's automatic spacers or something
17:21:47 <adamw> still, i'd say that's a functional issue
17:21:52 <cmurf> i wouldn't even guess it's there, i'd say it's missing
17:21:54 <adamw> wish sgallagh was here
17:21:57 <coremodule> like 1/5th the size of a normal icon
17:22:18 <satellit> can you drag it to another position?
17:22:21 <cmurf> do we understand the problem and when there'd be a fix?
17:22:41 <cmurf> of course, blockeryiness should be decided without that information, but...
17:22:56 <coremodule> satellit, yes, you can drag it around
17:23:05 <coremodule> and if you do, often the icon returns... but not always
17:23:13 <adamw> by my reading of the upstream issue, it's more or less understood what the problem basically is, but not necessarily precisely why it's happening or how it should be fixed
17:23:16 <cmurf> how hard can it be to fix? seems like it needs to be fixed at some point anyway
17:23:27 <adamw> it doesn't immediately seem like one of those "incredibly hard to fix" bugs though, i would kinda expect it to get fixed
17:23:32 <Kohane> coremodule:  What happens when you click in that super narrow space that shows up instead of the icon?
17:23:38 <Kohane> Does Firefox launches?
17:23:40 <cmurf> and does it only happen on live and not as installed or both?
17:23:43 <coremodule> it opens firefox like a normal icon
17:23:54 <coremodule> i tried both installed and live and got it there
17:23:59 <frantisekz> well, we can punt and ask Workstation WG for their opinion, I would say they are going to block on this
17:24:14 <cmurf> haha i'm kinda laughing at these screenshots :D
17:24:36 <cmurf> says firefox next to this vertical line, icon totally MIA
17:24:47 <cmurf> I'd say that's not functioning
17:24:49 <Kohane> MIA?
17:24:54 <cmurf> missing in action
17:24:55 <Kohane> Ah!
17:24:57 <jlanda> +1 ask to sig
17:25:11 <jlanda> We have time for a final, it worth it
17:25:14 <Kohane> Yeah, I think that's the best. Let's ask SIG
17:25:36 <cmurf> SIG?
17:25:39 <cmurf> this is on workstation
17:25:53 <Kohane> I read SIG
17:25:54 <cmurf> Workstation WG
17:25:58 <Kohane> Ah...
17:26:02 <adamw> i'm asking in #fedora-desktop right now
17:26:04 <Kohane> I swear
17:26:05 <jlanda> true
17:26:07 <Kohane> I read SIG
17:26:13 <Kohane> I need new glasses....
17:26:18 <cmurf> I would absolutely defer to Workstation WG on this, if they really are OK with it, I'm not gonna argue
17:26:29 <jlanda> There is a +1b from mcatanzaro on bz
17:26:32 <cmurf> might give a frowny face, but whatever :-)
17:27:06 <adamw> jlanda: yeah, he just mentioned that
17:27:26 <adamw> so i'm +1 too
17:28:12 <frantisekz> +1 too for me if I have to vote :)
17:28:41 <cmurf> +1 final blocker
17:28:44 <coremodule> yeahhhhhhh, I'm plus one blocker
17:28:55 <Kohane> +1
17:28:57 <pwhalen> +1
17:29:05 <coremodule> that's +1
17:29:54 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1690429 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a blocker as a violation of "All elements of the default panel (or equivalent) configuration in all release-blocking desktops must function correctly in typical use"
17:30:00 <frantisekz> ack
17:30:04 <coremodule> ack
17:30:10 <lruzicka> ack
17:30:12 <pwhalen> ack
17:30:13 <Kohane> ack
17:30:19 <adamw> #agreed 1690429 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a blocker as a violation of "All elements of the default panel (or equivalent) configuration in all release-blocking desktops must function correctly in typical use"
17:30:29 <adamw> #topic (1688082) [ko] Hangul input does not commit in Terminal, Firefox urlbar, Libreoffice
17:30:29 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1688082
17:30:29 <adamw> #info Proposed Blocker, mutter, POST
17:30:47 <adamw> this is one we took as a Beta FE earlier
17:31:13 <cmurf> what criterion would we be blocking on the basis of?
17:32:12 <coremodule> "All critical path actions on release-blocking desktops must correctly display all sufficiently complete translations available for use. " ?
17:32:31 <coremodule> being as its a commonly used character? (i dont know if it is or not)
17:33:03 <adamw> we accepted it as a blocker for f29:
17:33:04 <adamw> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1632981#c8
17:33:26 <cmurf> +1 final blocker
17:33:29 <adamw> on the basis that it affects 'basic functionality' in key apps with certain languages
17:33:34 <adamw> i'm OK with the same justification for f30, so +1
17:33:48 <coremodule> +1 on that basis for a "conditional blocker"
17:34:35 <pwhalen> +1
17:34:40 <Kohane> +1
17:34:46 <frantisekz> +1
17:35:26 <jlanda> +1
17:36:28 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1688082 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a blocker on the same basis the equivalent F29 bug (#1632981) was accepted: it violates the "basic functionality test" criterion when affected input methods are used, certainly including Korean and likely also affecting some Chinese IMs
17:36:36 <frantisekz> ack
17:36:48 <coremodule> ack
17:36:52 <jlanda> ack
17:37:17 <Kohane> ack
17:37:55 <cmurf> ack
17:38:03 <adamw> #agreed 1688082 - AcceptedBlocker (Final) - this is accepted as a blocker on the same basis the equivalent F29 bug (#1632981) was accepted: it violates the "basic functionality test" criterion when affected input methods are used, certainly including Korean and likely also affecting some Chinese IMs
17:38:10 <adamw> #topic (1692323) qemu crashes with virgl enabled on some GPUs
17:38:10 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1692323
17:38:10 <adamw> #info Proposed Blocker, qemu, NEW
17:38:43 <frantisekz> I am compiling qemu right now to test the proposed fix
17:38:46 <cmurf> off hand I'm -1 blocker on this because virgl not a default setting
17:38:46 <adamw> i'm inclined to -1 blocker on this on the basis that 3D acceleration is not the default for Boxes or virt-manager
17:38:51 <adamw> if i'm wrong about that i could change, though
17:38:53 <frantisekz> cmurf, it is
17:38:55 <jlanda> +1 blocker, but unblocking can be default changing on boxes
17:38:56 <frantisekz> in gnome boxes
17:39:00 <adamw> is that new?
17:39:03 <frantisekz> yep
17:39:04 <cmurf> really? that's new
17:39:12 <frantisekz> from latest gnome
17:39:15 <cmurf> but is Boxes installed by default?
17:39:18 <frantisekz> yeah
17:39:19 <jlanda> yep
17:39:30 <cmurf> wow
17:39:32 <cmurf> ok
17:39:34 <cmurf> so yeah +1 blocker
17:39:40 <pwhalen> +1 blocker
17:39:47 <adamw> ok, then yeah, +1 blocker
17:39:51 <frantisekz> +1
17:39:57 <jlanda> We have an hypervisor and a oci runner on almost all blockers
17:40:02 <Kohane> I don't know about this one, sorry, I have no opinion
17:40:04 <lruzicka> +1 blocker
17:40:06 <adamw> and yes, agreed with jlanda that changing the default back to 'off' would resolve the blocker
17:40:06 <cmurf> does it affect all hardware or just one?
17:40:08 <Kohane> So I'm 0
17:40:13 <cmurf> exactly
17:40:27 <frantisekz> cmurf, that's the issue
17:40:36 <frantisekz> it doesn't affect all the hardware
17:40:44 <cmurf> ok so it's conditional
17:40:46 <frantisekz> if it did, this would have been beta blocker
17:40:51 <jlanda> But it's default
17:40:56 <jlanda> And it wasn't
17:41:10 <cmurf> if it affects one model laptop on earth it won't pass the last blocker bug smell test
17:41:23 <cmurf> so I'm +1 conditional blocker and then we should ask for more testing
17:41:31 <frantisekz> the gpu in the laptop is used in almost all latest intel CPUs
17:41:35 <cmurf> ok
17:41:43 <jlanda> I'll try tomorrow on a totally different setup
17:42:10 <cmurf> anyway, it's an easy fix, just use unaccelerated graphics by default
17:42:20 <jlanda> true
17:42:40 <frantisekz> so, the fix that Daniel mentioned fixes the issue
17:43:17 <adamw> so
17:43:24 <adamw> we should actually consider this for Beta too
17:43:33 <cmurf> +1 beta FE
17:43:40 <adamw> i mean beta blocker
17:43:45 <adamw> we already voted on it as a beta fe
17:43:48 <cmurf> oic
17:43:49 <adamw> oh no we didn't
17:43:50 <adamw> but anyway
17:44:12 <adamw> so um. sorry. yes. this could potentially be a beta blocker: the criterion is a beta one
17:44:18 <lruzicka> if this can be fixed easily, then +1 beta blocker and have it fixed
17:44:19 <cmurf> ruhroh
17:44:32 <adamw> argument against being a beta blocker...we don't know what hardware it affects and potentially there's a workaround, i guess?
17:44:35 <lruzicka> we will be happy with a non broken functionality
17:44:47 <adamw> how hard is it to turn off the feature in Boxes?
17:44:55 <frantisekz> yeah, workaround is to disable 3d accel, which I think cannot be done in boxes
17:45:02 <cmurf> CLI you can
17:45:02 <adamw> hrm that's unfortunately
17:45:03 <frantisekz> I mean, it offers option to disable virgl
17:45:10 <lruzicka> adamw, but the workaround is to create the VM in virsh or something
17:45:11 <frantisekz> but not when it crashes so early :)
17:45:11 <cmurf> you can use virsh to modify the VM
17:45:18 <cmurf> even for Boxes
17:45:25 <cmurf> Boxes uses libvirt
17:45:26 <frantisekz> the other workaround is to use virt-manager
17:45:26 <adamw> i know, but that is quite the 'advanced' workaround.
17:45:32 <cmurf> yes it is
17:45:38 <cmurf> but it's also a beta
17:45:45 <lruzicka> cmurf, which is why we bother with Boxes and have all easy click on solutions for all VMs :)
17:45:49 <frantisekz> that doesn't enable virgl by default and allows you to disable it in UI
17:45:49 <adamw> hrm
17:45:54 <lruzicka> cmurf, if we could simply use virsh :D
17:45:56 <adamw> i'm actually a bit inclined to +1 beta blocker for this
17:45:56 <cmurf> U.S.S. Ship It
17:46:15 <frantisekz> okay, I am not against beta blocking on this
17:46:31 <frantisekz> we should be able to have a compose with fix before go/no-go
17:46:34 <lruzicka> I am for betakaroten this, too
17:46:54 <cmurf> I really want it in the beta but at the same time I'm not willing to hold up the beta or risk breaking it
17:47:12 <jlanda> +1 beta blocker
17:47:13 <cmurf> I'm on the knive's edge
17:47:19 <cmurf> or even knife
17:47:34 <adamw> we have time for another compose
17:47:35 <adamw> it's only monday
17:47:43 <jlanda> If it success
17:48:00 <jlanda> Actually niril was asking if we need and on meeting time :S
17:48:02 <cmurf> send kparal on vaca
17:48:19 <jlanda> We'll need one ? :D
17:48:46 <cmurf> +0.5 beta blocker
17:49:01 <Kohane> +0.5 beta blocker
17:49:03 <cmurf> rounding up that gets you to +4 or +5
17:49:13 <Kohane> Now we have 1 point  cmurf  LOL
17:49:32 <bcotton> i'll throw in a +1 bb, i guess
17:49:35 <cmurf> that's the way to have cake and eat it too
17:49:36 <pwhalen> heh, I didnt know .05 was an option..
17:49:40 <cmurf> it's not
17:49:41 <pwhalen> a reluctant +1 here
17:49:43 <cmurf> i'm cheating
17:49:46 <pwhalen> :)
17:50:07 <adamw> proposed #agreed 1692323 - AcceptedBlocker (Beta) - this is accepted as a *Beta* blocker as a violation of Beta criterion "The release must be able host virtual guest instances of the same release", given that it affects the default config of the default virt app on the default desktop
17:50:09 <cmurf> but it's slighly less wimpy than being a 0
17:50:11 <cmurf> haha
17:50:18 <frantisekz> ack
17:50:20 <cmurf> ack
17:50:25 <Kohane> ack
17:50:28 <pwhalen> ack
17:50:39 <cmurf> what you show up for blocker review and you vote 0? what? (been there, done it)
17:51:00 <adamw> tfw
17:51:04 <adamw> #agreed 1692323 - AcceptedBlocker (Beta) - this is accepted as a *Beta* blocker as a violation of Beta criterion "The release must be able host virtual guest instances of the same release", given that it affects the default config of the default virt app on the default desktop
17:52:14 <cmurf> ack
17:53:12 <adamw> okay, so
17:53:17 <adamw> that's everythin
17:53:21 <adamw> #topic Open flood
17:53:23 <adamw> d'oh
17:53:28 <adamw> #topic Open floor
17:53:31 <frantisekz> :D
17:53:41 <lruzicka> I feel flooded.
17:53:46 <adamw> anyone have any other business? please speak now given go/no-go will be thursday again
17:53:49 <adamw> =)
17:54:00 <coremodule> no business here
17:54:22 <lruzicka> no blocker business here, but will ask you a quest. in priv.
17:54:54 <adamw> rgr
17:55:03 <Kohane> Nope. No other business.
17:56:29 <sgallagh> adamw: You rang?
17:56:35 <sgallagh> (I’m on PTO today)
17:58:10 <adamw> sgallagh: nothing too important
17:58:28 <adamw> sgallagh: just wanted your input as Last Blocker Test Guy
17:58:46 <sgallagh> Heh. Fair enough. We good?
18:00:09 <jlanda> we have a blocker
18:00:15 <adamw> we do
18:00:19 <jlanda> But an easy one :D
18:00:21 <adamw> ish
18:00:31 <adamw> except none of the qemu maintainers is around so i get to do it!
18:00:33 <adamw> everybody stand back
18:00:37 <adamw> okay, thanks for coming, everyone
18:00:54 <Kohane> Thanks to you adamw for chairing
18:01:05 <Kohane> Sorry I've been so unuseful
18:01:12 <adamw> not at all
18:01:25 <jlanda> thanks to all
18:01:39 <adamw> #info as there is a blocker we will fix it and run a new compose, mboddu and I will decide what FE fixes to pull in
18:01:45 <adamw> #info go/no-go will be Thursday
18:01:48 <adamw> #endmeeting