12:00:39 <spevack> #startmeeting FAD FOSDEM 2011
12:00:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Feb  4 12:00:39 2011 UTC.  The chair is spevack. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:00:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
12:01:44 <spevack> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_FOSDEM_2011
12:03:03 <liknus> hey all
12:03:13 <spevack> #chair liknus
12:03:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: liknus spevack
12:03:26 <spevack> #topic FAD FOSDEM 2011
12:04:07 <liknus> #meetingname fad_fosdem_2011
12:04:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fad_fosdem_2011'
12:04:30 <biertie> o hi
12:04:35 <liknus> #note 11 people are present
12:04:37 * jsmith lurks
12:05:54 <biertie> can't we use something like etherpad?
12:14:56 <spevack> Ok, our first topic today will be the status of FUDCon EMEA 2011
12:15:01 <spevack> Jared has the floor:
12:15:31 <spevack> * Discussed at FAD EMEA in Rheinfelden that a bidding process needed to be opened.  At that time, it was thought that the EMEA Ambassadors leadership in EMEA would make a decision.
12:15:47 <spevack> * Nothing has happened there.  So do we need to open for more general bidding?
12:15:52 <spevack> Gerold:
12:16:17 <spevack> * No Ambassador has stepped up yet to say "I want to have a FUDCon in $LOCATION", the way it happened in Berlin and in Zurich.
12:16:21 <spevack> Jared:
12:16:33 <spevack> * Perhaps we need to make an open call for bids.
12:16:35 <spevack> Gerold:
12:17:26 <spevack> * Let's think about who is active in Europe.  Most of them are the folks who have showed up here at FOSDEM, with the exception of our French Ambassadors, who are also activey.
12:17:43 <spevack> * Germans, Greeks, French, and several others.  But those are the really active countries.
12:18:10 <spevack> * No country leadership, and no larger European leadership, now that Fedora EMEA e.V. is gone.
12:20:08 <spevack> * There is a larger issue, which is how to fix and re-grow Fedora Ambassadors in Europe, as well as in LATAM.
12:20:14 <spevack> Pierros:
12:20:23 <spevack> * This has been discussed in recent FAMSCO meetings.
12:20:28 <spevack> Max:
12:20:48 <spevack> * (I was going to ask if FAMSCO thinks there are certain issues)
12:20:56 <spevack> Pierros mentioned several things that FAMSCO had mentioned.
12:21:08 <spevack> liknus: can you type the 3 things that you said?
12:21:54 <liknus> 1. Resolve quick budget allocation
12:22:16 <liknus> 2. Assign (or emerged) regional leadership
12:22:50 <liknus> 3. Resolve item shipping (and production)
12:23:17 <spevack> Gerold also notes that the mission of Ambassadors has changed, or that the original mission has been successful.  Linux is a known quantity now.
12:23:49 <spevack> Jeroen:
12:24:08 <spevack> * North American Ambassadors are getting ready to start going to events that aren't primarily Fedora focused.
12:25:32 <spevack> * Going to other audiences that share some of the same values as Fedora community -- like SXSW
12:26:57 <spevack> Max: What do people want to do in their countries?  What is inspiring?
12:27:48 <jsmith> Just as an FYI -- the SXSW thing is an experiment, and it will be interesting to see if it's judged to be a worthwhile event
12:28:43 <liknus> Christos :
12:28:58 <liknus> If we use Fedora for Universities , who will support them?
12:29:10 <liknus> Jeroen:
12:29:22 <liknus> There is a business for that
12:30:00 <spevack> University would be the entry point for more Fedora users in Tunisia
12:31:43 <liknus> Bert : there are workarounds so communities can support univercities
12:31:49 <liknus> universities*
12:32:32 <spevack> trained people are needed to give courses, technical sessions at local universities
12:32:33 <liknus> Jeroen: the goal is to turn them to foss  (not specifically support fedora)
12:32:49 <liknus> Then they can built the ecosystem themselves
12:34:05 <liknus> ... everyone is ordering food now ....
12:35:23 <spevack> Pierros:
12:35:48 <spevack> * Very active over the past few years in Greece.  9-10 events over the past few years.  Pretty much every important event in Greece, as well as Fedora Coffees, FADs, etc.
12:36:42 * jsmith welcomes Pablo to the event
12:37:02 <spevack> * Regular meetings on IRC for the Greek community.
12:37:10 <spevack> * Targetting a FUDCon in Greece for next year.
12:37:51 <spevack> liknus: "next year's FUDCon EMEA (2012) will be in Greece!"
12:39:42 <spevack> FOSSCon in Greece last year had 550 people.
12:40:00 <spevack> Christos and Pierros think that we should try to get 50% attendance at something like FOSSCOn to attend a Greek FUDCon.
12:42:42 <spevack> Jeroen suggests holding FUDCon in Brno once again.
12:43:08 <spevack> Pierros notes that the French group is investigating.
12:44:14 <spevack> Max notes two things:
12:44:23 <spevack> (1) We should open the FUDcon EMEA 2011 bidding process TODAY
12:44:41 <spevack> (2) We have an ambassador here (Pablo) who can talk about what the french are doing and thinking
12:45:50 <spevack> Gerold and Jared bring up the merged-with-another-event or standalone FUDCon debate
12:46:15 <spevack> It depends very much on the culture of the area -- whether it is a difficulty to go away MANY times, versus for a LONGER time.
12:52:35 <jsmith> There are several things that happen in FUDCon NA that don't happen in other FUDCons, simply due to where people are located
12:52:52 <jsmith> Tempe was a very technical FUDCon, due to the people who were there
13:04:31 <jsmith> Jan: Help get superstars in EMEA more integrated into Fedora
13:11:12 <jsmith> Correction: Jan said to get more groupies into Fedora
13:18:52 <spevack> Jeroen mentions that there is a huge difference between the
13:18:52 <spevack> just-happened North American FUDCon and some of our non-NA FUDCons.  The
13:18:52 <spevack> issue is people.  Many of the technical leads of Fedora happen to be in
13:18:52 <spevack> North America, and thus the nature of the talks and presentations and
13:18:54 <spevack> collaborations at a NA FUDCon are able to exist, that can't happen at a
13:18:57 <spevack> FUDCon where those people aren't present.
13:18:59 <spevack> Focus for FUDCon LATAM would be sysadmin.
13:19:02 <spevack> Jan and Red Hat User groups across EMEA.
13:19:04 <spevack> Jan makes the point that the goto people in EMEA aren't associated with
13:19:07 <spevack> Fedora, and that Red Hat consultants who know lots of customers aren't
13:19:09 <spevack> necessarily plugged into Fedora.
13:19:23 <spevack> food has arrived -- everyone is eating now
13:38:46 <jsmith> Meeting is back in session
13:38:58 <jsmith> Pablo is talking about possibility of having FUDCon EMEA in France
13:39:21 <jsmith> The French community is having a meeting to discuss the possibility
13:39:44 <jsmith> Pablo: Everything there is very expensive
13:50:06 <biertie> 15 march :: last day for fudcon
13:50:29 <jsmith> last day for FUDCon EMEA 2011 bids
13:50:38 <biertie> wel yes, sorry
13:56:32 <biertie> idea: not only register.. also -> why do you want to come here?
13:56:42 <biertie> for fudcon 's
13:57:04 <biertie> also, created tracks ?
14:03:58 * rbergeron peeks in
14:05:23 <jsmith> Pierros talked about mentorship program, and changes to the mentorship program
14:05:29 <jsmith> Those will go through FAmSCo
14:06:32 <jsmith> Jan mentioned decentralized services, and the unhosted project, and web IDs
14:07:27 <jsmith> Jan also mentioned Transnational Republic IDs being made
14:12:01 <jsmith> Discussion regarding decentralized computing
14:25:36 <rbergeron> are these ideas about Things Fedora Could Do?
14:26:15 <biertie> actually yes
14:27:18 <biertie> fedora can lead again
14:28:03 <biertie> well, again
14:28:28 <biertie> can lead these things too
14:29:40 <rbergeron> do these differ from the "next great fedora engineering project" discussions at fudcon na (maybe someone there can put some framework around that)?
14:30:12 <rbergeron> ie: are these things we would consider part of our infra or is this more along the lines of grander scale than just infrastructure?
14:30:59 <biertie> 1. yes
14:31:42 <biertie> 2. strategy and vision
14:32:18 <biertie> answers from kanarip
14:32:21 <biertie> not from me ;)
14:45:15 <rbergeron> is this related to the FUDCon EMEA discussion somehow, or unrelated?
14:45:34 * rbergeron just wasn't sure if this was a discussion around "why people should come to fudcon" or otherwise
14:49:19 <biertie> no, not really
14:49:26 <biertie> it's for fedora as a whole
14:49:35 <biertie> technical expertise
14:50:14 <biertie> but other target
14:50:14 <biertie> like
14:50:18 <biertie> not pure OS
14:50:37 <biertie> maybe router os, with all funky stuff included like identi.ca and diaspora and whatever
14:50:41 <biertie> or something else
14:50:54 <biertie> debian has the 'freedom' box
14:51:04 <biertie> but we think fedora can do it better
14:51:07 <biertie> and make it happen faster
14:53:44 <biertie> rbergeron: ^
14:55:31 <biertie> better solutions to make fedora emea contributors happy
14:55:35 <biertie> how?
14:55:41 <biertie> discussion is needed
14:55:52 <biertie> because we are here, we believe
14:56:00 <biertie> and it is very important for open source in total
14:56:07 <biertie> ==> was mentioned by Jan
14:56:16 <biertie> Gerold: what are we doing? what is fedora doing?
14:56:24 <biertie> fedora is doing nothing, fedora is a project
14:56:42 <biertie> we are doing: we are individuals spending free time
14:56:52 <biertie> Jan: fedora is an idea, not a pure project
14:57:37 <biertie> what can ' I ' do to make people sit here happy next year?
14:58:04 <biertie> Max = spend 15 hours per week on Fedora
14:58:28 <biertie> Jan = but they don't know me.. (he was wrong ;) )
14:58:36 <rbergeron> sorry, i was making breakfast :)
14:58:57 <biertie> jan: people are smarter than I am
14:59:50 <biertie> Jan: give me your 158procent which list and I'l try to make it happen
15:00:24 <biertie> and
15:00:27 <biertie> no problem rbergeron
15:00:31 <biertie> enjoy
15:02:16 <biertie> Jan gives out business cards
15:02:26 <biertie> Jan: you don't need to do anything with it
15:02:30 <biertie> but
15:02:35 <biertie> if you want something
15:02:39 <biertie> tell me, I'll try to help
15:02:56 <biertie> I want next year 50 procent people here who are happy about red hat's relation with fedora
15:04:02 <biertie> o hi liknus
15:05:19 <biertie> jan: I can make red hat people talk to fedora people more
15:05:31 <biertie> Jeroen: we need a 'go to' guy in emea for community stuff
15:12:05 <rbergeron> I don't want to derail you guys from what your current conversation is, or from your goals / what you want to accomplish at the FAD - but I just want to say this:
15:12:17 <biertie> max: red hat needs to fight in europe that fedora is important!
15:12:28 <rbergeron> you guys captured some interesting ideas up above about "things we could do"
15:12:35 <biertie> bert: maybe that 'go to' guy can help with that?
15:13:13 <biertie> rbergeron: thank you ;)
15:13:25 <biertie> but everything is possible
15:13:49 <rbergeron> and I'd encourage those of you coming up with those ideas to actually capture some of the "what would it take" - rally folks around an idea - AND GO DO IT.
15:15:14 <biertie> hehe, yes yes yes!!!
15:16:21 <rbergeron> if that means a FAD is needed for coming up with a concrete plan for a project - those resources are there. don't let good ideas evaporate. get it down while you guys are at fosdem, talk about it, think about which idea strikes a balance of "not impossible" and "good for fedora" and "good for the world" or whatever you see fit.
15:16:53 <rbergeron> We need more dreaming and doing in fedora, and this is the kind of stuff i like to see. :D
15:28:35 <biertie> I think that we dream already enough ;)
15:28:43 <biertie> but not going enough :>
15:30:45 <biertie> rbergeron: ^
15:30:55 * rbergeron nods
15:32:34 <jsmith> #topic Conflict of interest between Fedora Ambassadors and ambassadorship between other distros
15:33:47 <kanarip> rbergeron, hey there ;-)
15:33:57 <rbergeron> heya kanarip :)
15:37:05 <liknus> rbergeron, heya
15:37:29 <liknus> rbergeron, REMINDER : we need the schedule :) (sorry for all that nudging)
15:38:13 <rbergeron> liknus: it's fixed. im going to have john push it out today :)
15:38:43 <rbergeron> and get that stuff intobmy fedorapeople so im not depending on him :)
15:40:22 <liknus> rbergeron, thank you *very* much :)
15:41:32 <rbergeron> dont thank me. it's my job, and now that fudcon is over i can do it with a little more love :)
15:42:04 * rbergeron is taking folks to school, back soon
15:43:08 <mchua> Pierros had a great post on the cross-distro Ambassadorship conflict some weeks back. Trying to pull it up.
15:43:21 <mchua> liknus: ...or you can probably restate it way faster than I can find the link. ;)
15:43:39 <liknus> mchua, I just did on the room :)
15:43:49 <mchua> #link http://pierros.papadeas.gr/?p=197
15:43:51 <mchua> There we go.
15:44:06 <liknus> and the general consensus is that we should leave people free to select what they want
15:44:10 <liknus> thanks mchua
15:44:26 <liknus> and on top of that try to push them by assigning fedora tasks :)
15:44:53 <mchua> Well, okay, the [[Ambassadors]] page says "Fedora Ambassadors are experienced contributors to the Fedora Project who are responsible for representing, promoting, and expanding the Fedora Project and its ideals to the larger F/LOSS community and the public at large."
15:45:26 <mchua> I don't see anything exclusive about this statement saying that Ambassadors must promote Fedora to the exclusion of other distros.
15:45:38 <liknus> thats what we just said here
15:45:47 <liknus> so I guess we all agree on that :)
15:45:58 <liknus> I will write a post to make sure everyone understands
15:45:59 <mchua> I think that a cross-distro Ambassador should be held to the same standard as one who's only Fedora - and that it takes a nontrivial amount of time to be a good, active Fedora Ambassador.
15:46:21 <liknus> exactly mchua
15:46:45 <mchua> i.e. "I also do this for $otherdistro" is not an excuse for being a less-active Fedora Ambassador. If folks want to double-major, it is their decision to handle both full workloads.
15:47:24 <mchua> So my personal opinion is that concrete, high standards of commitment and involvment (including having Ambassadors also be involved in some other aspect of Fedora) might help clarify things.
15:47:51 <mchua> If folks know that being an Ambassador is typically, say, a 4-hour commitment each week, they might be less apt to sign up for everything in the world willy-nilly. (I'm making numbers up.)
15:47:55 <mchua> Aaaaaand I'll be quiet now. :)
15:47:59 <liknus> mchua, thats what we meant by "assigning them stuff" so as to keep them in Fedora-roll
15:48:02 <liknus> mchua, :)
15:49:40 <kanarip> rbergeron, any more questions on the topic biertie relayed some of the information for?
15:50:10 <kanarip> as in "Transnational Society" stuff etc?
16:00:56 <jsmith> And with that, the meeting is adjourned
16:00:59 <jsmith> #endmeeting
16:01:02 * jsmith isn't a chair
16:03:05 <rbergeron> kanarip: yes, i'm curious as to exactly what transnational society is exactly ;)
16:03:34 <jsmith> rbergeron: Apparently they're handing out "decentralized" ID cards -- that's all we know
16:05:49 <spevack> #endmeeting