02:09:11 #startmeeting famna 02:09:11 Meeting started Wed Dec 7 02:09:11 2011 UTC. The chair is nb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 02:09:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 02:09:30 #meetingname famna 02:09:30 The meeting name has been set to 'famna' 02:10:08 #topic Events 02:10:16 * nb will just do the agenda from memory since i don't know of one 02:10:56 nb: isn't there an agenda on the fedora site? 02:11:10 * nb is looking 02:11:23 there is a pat agenda of containers with nothing specific added to any of them 02:11:33 #topic Announcements 02:11:34 that is one of our meeting problems 02:11:39 Anyone have any announcements? 02:12:02 that isn't an agenda - just a list of things that sound like something we should talk about :) 02:12:10 i missed last month's meeting 02:12:19 that's all i have 02:12:24 * nb wonders if it would be nice to go back to biweekly 02:12:29 but i guess thats a topic for open floor 02:12:44 Southern_Gentlem, ping meeting going on 02:13:18 rbergeron, rrix ianweller 02:13:22 nb: what we need is someone to kick us out of our funk 02:13:27 hey what 02:13:39 * nb was trying to ping the NA people 02:13:44 who might be interested in meeting 02:13:53 I guess no one has announcements 02:13:56 #topic Events 02:14:00 Anyone have any news about events? 02:14:04 hi! 02:14:07 ooh a famna meting 02:14:08 I don't, aside from that fudcon is in a little over a month 02:14:08 * mock gets a boot... 02:14:25 * ianweller is working on fudcon booklets as we speak 02:14:34 that's far more awesome than cleaning my desk 02:14:37 WHAT UP FAMNA 02:14:49 * rbergeron notes scale is coming up in January 02:14:59 weekend after fudcon. 02:15:19 I believe herlo is planning a FAD / learn to sysadmin / etc. class 02:16:14 Good information, rbergeron. 02:17:02 nb 2 meetings at the moment 02:17:19 #info SCALE (so cal linux expo) is Jan. 20-22 02:18:06 I think that's really the last NA event of the year (the fiscal year). Northwest linux fest is april, and unless there is something in march or Feb, I think that is it. 02:18:11 I could be entirely wrong though. 02:18:14 I usually am. 02:18:15 ;) 02:18:32 * rbergeron looks around wondering if she's the only person here 02:18:37 * nb here 02:18:41 * disunited here 02:18:45 i guess this is probably the only event 02:18:57 #topic Budget 02:19:22 dramsey here, too. 02:19:23 I .... really don't have anything here. 02:19:29 But if anyone has questions, you kno, ask, and I shall harass. 02:20:03 rbergeron, how are we doing? Budget page is not updated since 10/27 02:20:30 I don't know. I'm not in charge of the budget page nor am I in that department :\ 02:20:35 harish: ping 02:20:49 nb: did you hear back on media yet? 02:21:20 rbergeron, oh yeah, i forgot you aren't actually commarch :) 02:21:37 rbergeron, nope, will send email tonight, sorry, i got sidetracked yesterday 02:21:38 rbergeron, pong 02:21:41 i have the email ready 02:21:45 nb: no problemo 02:22:03 harish: had some curious folks in the NA ambassador meeting curious about budget status 02:22:14 ...where we are for the year, etc. 02:23:36 `220 02:23:58 SGS, ? 02:24:01 rbergeron, yes, i am in the process of updating the budget status 02:24:31 nb: was there anything specific you were wondering about 02:24:33 Ignore that. 02:24:37 how much is in the budget for next year? 02:24:49 rbergeron, not really, just how we were progressing 02:24:52 is there a ball park figure? 02:24:55 * rbergeron nods 02:25:12 although we do have approx 5000 something that isn't added in yet, so regional support will take a fairly big hit once that is in there 02:25:14 for media 02:25:18 mock: you can look at the number on the existing budget page, and probably add... what, 8-10k at bare minimum for media 02:25:25 between NA and europe 02:25:36 how much is left in this year's budget is more interesting to me and whether we should use any of it to stock up some on swag supplies for next year's events? 02:25:45 inode0: exactly 02:26:06 how much media do we have in stock? 02:26:10 harish: so I think the request is more or less "where are we" and if we're going to have money leftover, so that it can get used to prepare for the next FY in terms of swag, etc. 02:26:18 f16 media, that is 02:26:25 mock, 0 02:26:26 so having a good idea of where we are as the year ends is helpful. 02:26:40 nb: not gotten any yet or used up all we had? 02:26:51 mock, it is being produced, and i'm following up with the production company 02:26:56 ok 02:27:08 * nb is considering finding a new company for next year 02:27:18 i'm not too happy with AMS, especially since brent apparently is gone 02:27:21 and we ended up with a boatload of stickers from around sept-ish? 02:28:42 anyone have anything else about budget? 02:28:54 or any items they want us to look at getting or reordering 02:29:12 was wondering about pens too 02:29:19 are we ok on pens? 02:30:05 We have a box. 02:30:09 Here in VA. 02:30:19 * nb has a good supply of pens 02:30:26 ok 02:31:42 rbergeron, yep. i am awaiting some numbers from finance as well - but I think i can safely update to show what I am already aware of. give me a few hours. 02:32:27 harish, ok thanks 02:32:33 #topic open floor 02:32:39 Ok, what else does anyone have 02:33:08 * inode0 will mention that the 1st fedora raffle completed 02:33:17 would it be benificial to have a small group of people meet before the meetings to set agenda leadership ect? 02:33:24 we are in the process of shipping prizes to the 30 winners now 02:33:51 most are from non-NA countries so we'll likely spend a few hundred dollars shipping this time 02:34:00 * nb would like to see us get a stamps.com or endicia account linked to the credit card 02:34:15 perhaps to keep focus.. and if we continue 1 a month should we have a similar pre-meeting so information doesnt get lost in that time? 02:34:31 disunited: there is a wiki page for the agenda for each upcoming meeting and it would be really swell if any ambassador added items to it before the meeting 02:34:40 it'd cost us about 20 or 30/month, but would let any famna shipper ship usps very conveniently 02:35:17 inode0, i would be happy to do that if i knew what all we were going to have on the agenda. i am new to the ambassadors so i might need a little guidence 02:35:21 * mock thinks nb is onto something 02:35:45 the downside is that the shipper would have to use windows when printing labels, they are a software program, not a web based program 02:35:49 I don't recall why we didn't before - let me investigate that a bit 02:36:14 nb: that's seems fundamentally opposing us 02:36:20 that would make it impossible for me, I don't do windows anywhere 02:36:25 mock, yeah.............. thats the bad art 02:36:36 is there an alternative? 02:37:28 disunited: the way it is supposed to work is that ambassadors who are doing things should add those things to the agenda if they wish to report about them or need any help with them 02:38:01 there isn't any magic group who knows what should be on the agenda outside of the group of ambassadors doing stuff 02:38:09 supposedly stamps.com supports web based now 02:38:11 * nb is investigating 02:38:28 would anyone oppose us trying it for say a month (assuming there is an alternative to requiring windows)? 02:38:49 inode0, i realize that, i was juist wondering if a central point of contact for agenda creation might smooth things over is poepl arent adding 02:38:57 I don't have any opinion at the moment since I don't know anything about it yet 02:39:16 * mock motions for a 1 month trial of stamps.com as proposed by nb 02:39:34 and if it requires linking the credit card to it we'll need to pass that by finance 02:39:45 if it pans out from nb's investigation 02:42:13 * nb has used them before, and just tried the web based and it looks like it would work for us 02:42:47 * nb is not sure what finance would think hopefully they'd approve, its similar to the way ups works 02:42:50 nb: eww 02:42:54 * inode0 just suggests we get the details and benefits clear before making any decisions 02:42:58 * rbergeron was just looking at the stamps.com thing 02:43:03 rbergeron, stamps.com has a totally web based option 02:43:08 oh 02:43:16 nb: what were your thoughts on the prepaid shipping boxes? 02:43:25 rbergeron, i like them and would like to continue using htem 02:43:31 i'm using some right now for the raffle 02:43:52 if ups wouldj ust have a more reasonable international option, it'd be nice, but they don't 02:44:11 although prepaid boxes are easier and more convenient imho for a lot of uses 02:44:25 we need to remember that we are trying something new with the credit cards and shouldn't overreach with them, avoiding any problems is important to the long term health and expansion of this method of finance 02:44:53 inode0, true 02:45:22 and since the cards are limited and already linked to multiple places adding more uncertainty about monthly charges applied to them concerns me some 02:45:47 * rbergeron notes that she could do it via her credit card 02:46:03 not to the point I would necessarily object if there is a lot of benefit to it and everyone using it was responsible ;) 02:46:08 inode0: :) 02:46:42 hmm 02:47:10 it's up to y'all :) 02:47:16 * nb could possibly test it with a regular account linked to rbergeron credit card before we upgrade to one of the more expensive multiperson accounts 02:47:22 they support ones that can track who spends money, etc 02:47:37 what need is being solved? 02:47:54 inode0, the need to pay and get reimbursed or have to have rbergeron or inode0 make labels for you 02:48:03 I never felt the need when I was doing shipping and really haven't heard anyone else complain 02:48:22 well, for NA shipping UPS works, right? 02:48:22 mainly because of all the international we are doing right now 02:48:32 but i can handle doing it without it, it was just an idea 02:48:46 i think if we moved to using usps for a lot of stuff we could save as much as the monthly fee is 02:48:48 ok, so that is a special problem that I am not sure affects our entire shipping department :) 02:49:01 so it is kind of something that could save us money overall imho 02:49:25 ok, so perhaps switch entirely from UPS to USPS 02:49:53 inode0, perhaps 02:50:15 inode0, we'd need to explore rates more, but from the comparisons ive done, usps has been better for a lot of things 02:50:31 I do suspect USPS flat rate domestic shipping would often be cheaper than UPS 02:53:04 +1 for free flat rate boxes, labels and forms with USPS. Order at usps.com and have the "empty boxes" delivered to your place for free of charge, in order to do your own "boxing" and labeling. 02:53:52 well, there are some details in there that make that a little more complicated I think 02:54:10 well, i have ordered a fwe of the pre-paid flat rate boxes for nb as well. 02:54:17 fewer people can do the ordering/labeling that way than can do it now via UPS 02:54:19 which really lowers the receipt hassle. 02:54:41 problem is that you don't want to just send everyone a zillion boxes, because... they could vanish :) 02:54:43 rbergeron, yeah, i wish they offered prepaid intl flat rate boxes 02:54:55 UPS will reuse my old amazon boxes which works well for me :) 02:55:21 inode0: it's more like... free priority mail boxes with the stamp already attached, not paying for actual boxes 02:55:42 yeah, they'll send free boxes without stamps too 02:55:58 right, but still it involves a 3rd party to make happen 02:55:58 oh, i see what he was getting at 02:57:00 being able to just go ship yourself without anyone else needing to intervene is worth a slightly higher price from UPS IMO 02:57:13 inode0, thats what using stamps.com would do 02:57:24 usps offers online postage via several different vendors 02:57:30 they don't have a direct option like ups 02:58:08 nb, I have ordered stamps via USPS.com and the delivery cost for my $2,000 (USD) in stamps was $1 (USD,) food for thought. 02:58:26 dramsey, this is different 02:58:34 you can print whatever amount you want 02:58:45 they do have stamps, but you can't get the exact amount 02:59:55 Ah, understood nb that makes sense. 03:00:56 * inode0 will think about this, I see good points and bad 03:01:05 I have a variety of stamps from $0.01 to $18.30 with variants within that range. There is also the "print shipping labels" option which saves 15% on postage, too. 03:01:18 dramsey, yeah, this would get the discount 03:01:30 +1 nb and inode0 and rbergeron 03:01:33 I wonder if there is another solution to the occasional international shipping problem 03:02:18 not really without bugging a cc holder, or unless someone does like i think max did with lcafiero and just gives them the cc number 03:02:21 part of our goal of regional ambassadors was to get each region to produce and ship their own resources 03:02:24 then usps.com's label printer could be used 03:02:37 inode0, oh, that kind of solution 03:02:39 I'm not sure we really should be shipping as much as we do internationally 03:03:09 true, especially considering the cost of shipping 03:03:17 shipping costs more than the item is worth a lot of times 03:03:24 but if we decide we should, then we really need to solve the problem of how best to do it 03:03:52 shipping is an understood cost of business though, just a fact of life 03:04:29 true 03:04:36 true 03:05:11 seeing up close what we spend on shipping I am definitely not opposed to doing things to reduce that cost 03:05:19 and with ups there is a definite paper trail 03:05:40 kk4ewt, there is with this too, they have all kinds of reports 03:05:59 (I've used it personally before and have had good experiences and have seen all the tons of reports you can get) 03:06:19 I'm inclined to favor a single solution rather than all the shippers needing multiple accounts and learning multiple systems 03:06:23 sorry all i was in another meeting 03:06:25 Would a point of contact within the for example, EMEA region be a useful "one shipment" of product, in order to distribute from there? 03:06:42 inode0, well, actually stamps.com supports more than one shipper under one account 03:06:52 they'd each get separate usernames, but it'd all be linked to one account 03:06:59 dramsey: then it would cost 50 to ship to them then for them to ship it 03:07:15 still, they need account access and still need to learn whatever processes are involved 03:07:18 inode0, yeah 03:07:39 true kk4ewt and local shipping from the region and corresponding budget as well as workload. 03:08:20 perhaps at fudcon we can discuss with other ambassadors about local production vs. shipping from NA 03:08:53 kk4ewt, absolutely very true. Could be part of the calculus. 03:08:55 dramsey: i can see us paying that $50 to send lot of things in someones bag going to EMEA 03:09:06 but regardless of that, we always will occasionally need to ship internationally 03:09:28 at least 2x a year to canada 03:11:12 it may be cheaper to give money to emea to produce the raffle shirts and to distrubute 03:12:05 the money isn't a problem 03:12:32 we are only talking about something like $300 shipping 03:12:46 spending that once in a blue moon to thank our contributors is nothing 03:12:54 +1 03:13:27 we've been going for over a hour now 03:13:41 Good discussions. ;) 03:13:46 my proposal is to have rbergeron use her cc for a regular 1-user account for a month and see how it works, report back at next meeting 03:14:09 but if the meeting chooses otherwise, that is fine 03:14:21 that account can easily be upgraded to higher user-limit later if we choose 03:18:04 * nb hears crickets chirping 03:18:05 if she can do that for you to use for the raffle shipments I'm all for it 03:18:30 we can get experience with it, and solve a pending need 03:18:43 that was my idea 03:19:28 okay 03:19:29 that's fine 03:19:36 just tell me where to put my information 03:19:48 ok 03:19:54 will pm you after meeting 03:19:58 Anything else for open floor? 03:20:00 sure 03:20:14 yes 03:20:36 congratulations to the missing herlo for his new seat on famsco 03:20:48 yes, congrats herlo 03:20:56 #info Congratulations herlo on being elected to famsco 03:20:56 grats, herlo 03:20:58 it is nice to have someone from NA back on famsco 03:21:33 Congratulations herlo :D 03:23:07 if nothing else...... will close the meeting 03:23:15 please do :) 03:23:24 #endmeeting