02:00:19 <award3535> #startmeeting FAmNA
02:00:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Nov  6 02:00:19 2015 UTC.  The chair is award3535. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
02:00:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
02:00:31 <award3535> #meetingname FAmNA
02:00:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famna'
02:00:42 <award3535> #topic === FAmNA Roll Call ===
02:00:51 <cydrobolt> .hello cydrobolt
02:00:52 <zodbot> cydrobolt: cydrobolt 'Chaoyi Zha' <summermontreal@gmail.com>
02:00:59 <award3535> #chair cydrobolt
02:00:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: award3535 cydrobolt
02:01:05 <award3535> evening cydrobolt
02:01:12 <juggler> evening award
02:01:20 <award3535> evening juggler
02:02:04 <award3535> I havent forgotten I read your reply to me email there are a couple to things we will need to discuss and then get you approved.
02:02:16 <wrnash> Hi everyone.
02:02:19 <cydrobolt> hi award3535
02:02:34 <juggler> no worries award :)
02:02:34 <award3535> #chair wrnash
02:02:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: award3535 cydrobolt wrnash
02:03:03 <juggler> you waited for me patiently, so I will wait patiently likewise
02:03:20 <juggler> heyhey wrnash
02:03:23 <award3535> I have been working doubles almost every day the past three weeks
02:03:34 <juggler> ouch
02:03:36 <award3535> #topic === Announcements ===
02:03:38 <wrnash> Sounds like everyone is busy at work
02:04:38 <award3535> I need a break from work.... so that I can concentrate on fedora
02:05:06 <award3535> has everyone seen the email concerning budget and tracking
02:05:13 <award3535> if not https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/council-discuss/2015-October/013742.html
02:06:35 <award3535> any thoughts on the subject?
02:08:25 <award3535> I had some questions I emailed to Remy with a few areas of concern and who is responsible for what, I havent got a reply yet will let everyone know what and when this all will come down
02:08:38 <wrnash> So do we need to come up with a different way of doing the budget?
02:09:25 <juggler> Referring to the last paragraph, I think that in order to have a Fedora presence, requires some money..
02:09:27 <wrnash> maybe scan the recipes
02:10:03 <wrnash> I agree there must be money spent to promote fedora.
02:10:32 <award3535> the way I see it, each region will have a budget that is tracked and controlled by regional group listed and the Regional Ambassador, and they will leave it up to each area to come up with a program that keeps track of their budget.
02:11:00 * jflory7 is checked in now
02:11:04 <jflory7> Sorry I'm late
02:11:12 <jflory7> Got out of class later than normal
02:11:21 <juggler> jflory you're here, so that matters :)
02:11:25 <award3535> wrnash I always scan my receipts, and everyone should and is required to submit them for reimbursement anyway
02:11:35 <jflory7> juggler: :)
02:11:39 <award3535> evening jflory7
02:11:44 <jflory7> Evening, award3535!
02:12:04 <wrnash> but what about the rest of the ambassadors
02:12:44 <award3535> jflory7 thank you for the suggestions on the ticket but you may want to read the information listed here https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/council-discuss/2015-October/013742.html
02:13:12 <jflory7> award3535: Will read through now.
02:14:09 <award3535> wrnash I believe that each ambassador should and file them with their treasurer in the region as well (under the new program) as the reimbursment ticket
02:14:41 <award3535> that is where we ran into trouble keeping track of actual expenses.
02:15:26 <award3535> events were being completed, no reports and no receipts, just emailed to ruth, or a ticket filed with no proof.
02:15:48 <wrnash> How can we get ambassadors turn in there paperwork
02:15:50 <award3535> #chair kk4ewt
02:15:50 <zodbot> Current chairs: award3535 cydrobolt kk4ewt wrnash
02:16:01 <kk4ewt> wrnash,  scan it
02:16:17 <award3535> wrnash, that is the key, they will not get reimbursed now without receipts
02:16:49 <wrnash> Is there a way to track ambassadors who do not send in the reports
02:17:25 <award3535> there is one sentence in the discussion that also say regions closely monitor expenses and reimbursements
02:19:03 <award3535> wrnash the reimbursement will not happen unless the ticket is opened and scanned copies present, those who dont will not get their money back.
02:20:47 <award3535> and of course the regional treasurer should have access to edit in trac with their region
02:21:07 <award3535> the same goes for shipping in the region
02:21:18 <wrnash> sounds like a good plan
02:22:07 <award3535> there are many things that will need to be ironed out, but we will get there
02:22:17 * ParadoxGuitarist wanders in
02:22:26 <award3535> #chair paradoxguitarist
02:22:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: award3535 cydrobolt kk4ewt paradoxguitarist wrnash
02:22:30 <award3535> welcome
02:22:33 <jflory7> This seems like a good starting point.
02:22:34 <kk4ewt> have we even thought about a budget?
02:23:37 <award3535> kk4ewt I sent an email to remy asking more questions, but we havent got that far here yet
02:24:16 <award3535> kk4ewt your proposal looked great but the question no lies with are we doing regional budgets?
02:24:40 <award3535> how do we approve events for region, or does it remain the same
02:24:54 <kk4ewt> that remains the same
02:25:00 <award3535> and we all vote on events even outside of our region
02:25:15 <kk4ewt> we all deal with our region
02:25:43 <kk4ewt> so far, and i emailed the ambassador list with questions myself
02:25:47 <award3535> now is our region NA or NA east, west, mid
02:25:51 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'm not thrilled with that idea.
02:26:30 <kk4ewt> as far as this committe is concerned we are NA so all 3
02:26:52 <award3535> since we are talking about this let me open the ticket
02:27:03 <award3535> #topic === Tickets ===
02:27:07 <ParadoxGuitarist> Technically there's a region in Canada, but we haven't had an active presence there.
02:27:17 <award3535> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famna/report/9
02:27:19 <kk4ewt> the budget i propose is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yiAgz1-9MRk3LboDWpB6RCrCshBDqHPgIiYAaT5WqlQ
02:27:35 <award3535> .famnaticket 115
02:27:36 <zodbot> award3535: #115 (FAMNA Budget Tracking ideas) – FAmNA general trac - https://fedorahosted.org/famna/ticket/115
02:28:26 <award3535> so in FAMNA we will have 3 regions tracking budget?
02:28:49 <kk4ewt> no we are one region we track one budget
02:29:18 <wrnash> I agree with are one region
02:29:49 <award3535> ok now that makes sense, so that means I will get all event expense reports and compile the budget
02:30:14 <kk4ewt> yes nothing is really changeing as far as that goes
02:30:42 <award3535> but I believe that its going to get tighter on reimbursements
02:30:49 <kk4ewt> the regions are NA, EMEA, APAC, Latin
02:32:39 <award3535> now that leads back into the ticket I opened about getting information to me for expenses.
02:33:24 <kk4ewt> the current plan is that each region has 3 leads  treasurer, logistics, storyteller
02:34:34 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'm guessing Logistics = swag shipping ect
02:34:44 <ParadoxGuitarist> It was missing from the email
02:34:59 <award3535> makes sense
02:35:02 <kk4ewt> to me Treasuser and logistics are easy the storry teller main job should be the person who badgers the event owners for reports
02:35:33 <award3535> so how do we elect those individuals
02:35:34 <kk4ewt> and the treasurer ond story teller both should sign off on reemburstments
02:35:42 <ParadoxGuitarist> I think if award3535 is up to it I would like to see him be both story teller and treasurer
02:36:00 <award3535> I would be honored
02:36:06 <kk4ewt> ParadoxGuitarist,  they need to be different people in my mind
02:36:30 <kk4ewt> i will take logistics (what i normally do anyways)
02:36:59 <kk4ewt> (current shippers are me,nb, and paradox)
02:37:09 <kk4ewt> that will remain the same
02:37:31 <kk4ewt> ParadoxGuitarist,  i really think you or jsandys should be the story teller
02:37:40 <award3535> +1 for logistics
02:38:25 <ParadoxGuitarist> +1 for logistics, and I'm happy to continue helping cover the west coast
02:38:56 <wrnash> +1
02:39:44 <kk4ewt> and i think we have the best treasurer we could hope for with award3535
02:39:55 <juggler> +1 for award3535
02:40:10 <ParadoxGuitarist> kk4ewt: I don't see that, I think he's been making more headway than any other member with budget stuff. We've been talking about budget reform since I signed on, (f15) and he's been consistent
02:40:16 <award3535> kk4ewt I agree with paradoxguitarist, both treasurer and story teller go hand in hand, without reports, reimbursment tickets that would provide an easy tracking
02:40:34 <ParadoxGuitarist> I don't see that about needing them to be seperate people.
02:41:35 <ParadoxGuitarist> Plus award3535 has been faithful about sending out reports that are well written for public consumption
02:41:50 <kk4ewt> +1 award3535  for anything else he wants to do
02:42:34 <ParadoxGuitarist> I wouldn't mind being story teller, but I think award3535 would do a better job at it.
02:43:20 <award3535> I would like to try both, If i need help I have a great bunch of people (ambassadors) that I can count on
02:43:41 <kk4ewt> ParadoxGuitarist,  tracking the money is a hard enough job, so if someone else can help track reports that would help
02:44:00 <kk4ewt> i have done that job its herding cats at time
02:44:46 <ParadoxGuitarist> I hear you, I can certainly help with that if needed.
02:45:11 <ParadoxGuitarist> Assistant to the Story Teller
02:45:11 <kk4ewt> ParadoxGuitarist,  that was my next statement nothing is saying he cant have an assistant
02:45:19 <ParadoxGuitarist> ;)
02:45:40 <ParadoxGuitarist> been watching a lot of The Office during paternity leave
02:46:25 <cydrobolt> ParadoxGuitarist, congrats on your child!
02:46:39 * cydrobolt is reading scrollback
02:46:47 <award3535> so what is the verdict.... Logistics stay the same, Treasurer me, storyteller ParadoxGuitarist with me as backup
02:47:26 <kk4ewt> that works for me
02:47:28 <kk4ewt> +1
02:47:33 <juggler> +1
02:47:37 <wrnash> +1
02:47:43 <kk4ewt> all in favor please vote
02:47:49 <award3535> +1
02:48:10 <award3535> ParadoxGuitarist........
02:49:10 <jflory7> I have no opposition, but I'm still pretty new so I don't feel like I'm fully informed. This seems like the best way to do it based on how things are running as-is.
02:49:23 <ParadoxGuitarist> +1
02:49:27 <ParadoxGuitarist> sorry baby was crying
02:50:00 <ParadoxGuitarist> thanks cydrobolt
02:50:23 <cydrobolt> +1 for this
02:50:57 <ParadoxGuitarist> Though I'm good with me as backup instead
02:50:58 <award3535> #agreed Logistics kk4ewt nb ParadoxGuitarist, Treasurer award3535, Storyteller ParadoxGuitarist w/Back up of award3535
02:51:07 <ParadoxGuitarist> =)
02:51:10 <ParadoxGuitarist> that's fine
02:51:23 <kk4ewt> jflory7,  basicly redhat is changing the way things work and we will need to do things in a business like way (tracking the money better)
02:52:05 <jflory7> kk4ewt: That's what I've been gathering from the council-discuss mailing list - just read that thread for the first time tonight.
02:52:16 <ParadoxGuitarist> I think there needs to be something addressed when $$ is spent out of our budget that isnt approved by our group
02:52:46 <kk4ewt> ParadoxGuitarist,  when there is no tracking of our money how can we say anything
02:53:16 <ParadoxGuitarist> Well we can go through our previous closed tickets and get estimates.
02:53:22 <kk4ewt> if we have a budget and we track it as we are suppose to we know how much we have
02:53:43 <ParadoxGuitarist> but we have no way of seeing a line by line of what is being pulled out.
02:53:50 <kk4ewt> with people not reporting and closing events we have guessamates
02:54:11 <award3535> ParadoxGuitarist, that was brought up last meeting, kk4ewt is right, we do not have all the pieces to the puzzle
02:54:24 <wrnash> Is creating a ticket the best way to request money
02:54:25 <award3535> that is why we will now have some ground rules
02:54:26 <ParadoxGuitarist> Every business has a way to audit their books
02:54:34 <kk4ewt> we should know where our money is going and all of us need to do that
02:54:47 <ParadoxGuitarist> so if we need to do things in a business like way, we need to be able to audit.
02:55:16 <award3535> there will be some ground rules all of us will need to discuss
02:56:00 <wrnash> what about signing a tracking number to each request.  We can track event and money spent via the tracking tool.
02:56:20 <ParadoxGuitarist> wrnash:  I'm pretty sure it's the only way, unless you have a RH credit card
02:56:40 <award3535> for example, following reimbursement guidelines, following event open to completion guidelines, and shipping reports
02:56:55 <wrnash> It is almost like we do at my job.  I have to create a request for a certain amount of money once approved a tracking number is assign that you use for all expense.
02:57:25 <ParadoxGuitarist> wrnash: I don't think we have a literal account to pull from
02:57:41 <wrnash> ok
02:58:04 <ParadoxGuitarist> otherwise an audit of what we have spent would have been easy for us to get.
02:58:25 <award3535> we should already be doing that, tickets for events, tickets for reimbursements, all tickets should have a final expense attached or reported
02:58:26 * ParadoxGuitarist is speculating.
02:58:40 <ParadoxGuitarist> true true
02:58:43 <wrnash> How about adding a topic to each meeting on open expense reports.
02:59:24 <ParadoxGuitarist> +1
02:59:40 <award3535> but that would not help me with what is actually spent, because not all ambassadors attend these meetings
03:00:21 <wrnash> if an open expense has not been closed then we can start emailing or calling that ambassador.
03:00:33 <award3535> I could post and updated sheet but would not help in getting final reports
03:00:35 <kk4ewt> award3535,  i hate to say this but i think we need a trac for events
03:00:49 <wrnash> then they cannot create another ticket till all expense reports are closed.
03:00:57 <ParadoxGuitarist> kk4ewt: isn't that what famnarequests is?
03:01:03 <award3535> kk4ewt we already do, and I have full access
03:01:12 <kk4ewt> award3535,  ok
03:01:47 <kk4ewt> famnarequest is forthe logistics side that people order what they need for the events
03:01:57 <ParadoxGuitarist> sorry I'm thinking of famna
03:02:10 <ParadoxGuitarist> <--- is running on empty
03:02:27 <kk4ewt> ParadoxGuitarist,  when we ship anything for an event we need to put that on that events wiki
03:02:43 <wrnash> +1
03:02:52 <kk4ewt> with tracking #
03:02:55 <ParadoxGuitarist> kk4ewt: That's a good idea
03:02:56 <award3535> no we do have one for those, that is where we request swag, banners , etc, all we would have to do is add the shipping cost as well
03:03:07 <kk4ewt> with amount that ups tells us
03:03:12 <ParadoxGuitarist> no wiki no shipping?
03:03:22 <award3535> or the event wiki works as well
03:03:23 <ParadoxGuitarist> Is there a concern with theft?
03:03:43 <ParadoxGuitarist> Like I put the tracking number online and someone knows when to steal it?
03:04:37 <kk4ewt> we can put it in the famnarequest and just put total shipping in the wiki
03:04:38 <kk4ewt> tracking
03:04:42 <kk4ewt> #
03:05:08 <ParadoxGuitarist> I normally put it in famnarequests, or say that I dropped it off.
03:05:25 <award3535> I think we need to come up with ground rules and get this hammered out, but I agree on one thing that no reimbursements unless the requirements are met, reports, receipts, and our thumbs up on the reimbursment request before ruth or inode0 pays for anything
03:05:26 <kk4ewt> so add the shipping cost in there as well
03:05:58 <kk4ewt> award can see those so he can get the info
03:06:13 <wrnash> We are already past our time do we want to talk about this again on the next meeting or via email?
03:06:32 <kk4ewt> next meeting
03:06:39 <ParadoxGuitarist> I think the only requests that have gone through award3535 should get to ruth or inode0
03:07:00 <kk4ewt> yes
03:07:02 <wrnash> +1
03:07:22 <wrnash> that way Award3535 can track it.
03:07:35 <ParadoxGuitarist> So tell Ruth (or whoever at RH) to ignore unless from award3535
03:07:43 <ParadoxGuitarist> it forces the issue.
03:08:03 <award3535> we will keep this open for next meeting and these are all good ideas
03:08:49 <award3535> the event sponsorship is the easy part, we approve it here and I update or the event owner updates the ticket
03:09:11 <ParadoxGuitarist> Speaking of which, there was an email chain about SCaLE.
03:09:15 <kk4ewt> and if they pay for rooms at events the person they are paying for are responsible for making sure that award gets the recipt
03:09:45 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'll get a ticket in for it this next week.
03:10:00 <award3535> kk4ewt the biggest issue is just that, I never see the room or travel paid in advance
03:10:20 <kk4ewt> award3535,  300 shipping for lisa and fossetcon
03:10:58 <award3535> great meeting tonight, we need to give up this time slot up
03:11:11 <ParadoxGuitarist> see you all next week?
03:11:14 <award3535> kk3ewt will record that amount
03:11:57 <award3535> everyone have a great rest of the evening....
03:11:59 <award3535> #endmeeting