17:00:19 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-05-27
17:00:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 27 17:00:19 2013 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:25 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:00:25 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:00:31 <sesivany> #topic Roll call
17:00:36 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:36 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:00:57 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
17:00:57 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
17:01:07 <sesivany> aeperezt, tuanta, nb: ping
17:01:25 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:01:26 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:01:33 <aeperezt> hello sesivany
17:01:39 <sesivany> aeperezt: hi
17:02:39 <sesivany> I hope it won't be just three of us again.
17:03:05 <aeperezt> right
17:03:48 <sesivany> ok, let's wait a couple more minutes if someone else shows up.
17:04:28 <bckurera> .FAS bckurera
17:04:29 <zodbot> bckurera: bckurera 'Buddhika Kurera' <bckurera@gmail.com>
17:04:46 <bckurera> Hi guys
17:04:46 <sesivany> bckurera: welcome
17:05:34 <sesivany> ok, let's start.
17:05:40 <bckurera> sesivany,  great
17:05:40 <sesivany> #topic Announcements
17:05:48 <sesivany> any announcements?
17:06:16 <sesivany> I was at LinuxTag for the whole week, so I'm not much aware of any important information.
17:06:53 <bckurera> Election nominations are closed
17:07:08 <sesivany> yes, elections
17:07:14 <bckurera> :-)
17:07:41 <sesivany> #topic FAmSCo election nominations have been closed. There are 5 candidates for 4 seats.
17:07:46 <sesivany> #undo
17:07:46 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x2e432c10>
17:07:56 <sesivany> #info FAmSCo election nominations have been closed. There are 5 candidates for 4 seats.
17:07:59 <sesivany> typo...
17:08:44 <sesivany> frankly I expected more candicates, but at least it will be real elections (more candidates than seats).
17:09:56 <sesivany> aeperezt: glad to see more candidates from LATAM. You seemed to make a good job in identifying good candidates for FAmSCo.
17:09:58 <bckurera> Yes 5 is really good :-)
17:10:40 <sesivany> what worries me a bit is that there are no candidates from NA.
17:10:51 <aeperezt> sesivany, I'm glad that people are getting involve
17:10:56 <bckurera> So herlo and nb decided not for the reelection?
17:11:03 <sesivany> so there will be no representatives of NA in FAmSCo in the next term.
17:11:15 <aeperezt> sesivany, o
17:11:31 <sesivany> bckurera: I don't see them in the list of nominated persons.
17:12:24 <tuanta> it's not good. we should have at least one member from each region
17:12:33 <bckurera> Yup so NA will not have a direct representation, but we all support all regions we can cooperate
17:13:31 <sesivany> tuanta: yes, it's not very fortunate, it will be more demaning in terms of cooperation.
17:14:21 <sesivany> FAmSCo will have to make sure that regions are aware of what's going on. So far, it's been easy. But now NA can't be left out.
17:14:54 <sesivany> ok, let's move on if no one else has any announcement.
17:15:36 <sesivany> #topic Quarterly Budget Meeting
17:15:55 <sesivany> I haven't found time to invite everyone :-(
17:16:00 <sesivany> but I'll do it ASAP.
17:16:22 <sesivany> just FYI: next week, we will have a quarterly budget meeting.
17:16:42 <sesivany> to make sure that all regions are on track with planned budgets.
17:16:55 <bckurera> That is good we will prepare ourselves
17:17:27 <sesivany> it will be part of FAmSCo meeting or replace it. Implementation details are not important.
17:17:50 <sesivany> It'd be great to have all regional budget treasurers/wranglers here.
17:18:20 <sesivany> + I'm going to invite rsuehle who is responsible for Fedora budget in RHT.
17:19:06 <sesivany> #info Quarterly Budget Meeting will be during the next FAmSCo meeting.
17:19:07 <bckurera> sesivany, add it as an #info #action :-)
17:20:05 <sesivany> #action every region to update their budgets (add the latest spendings) and prepare some overview of expenses in the near future.
17:20:56 <tuanta> got it.
17:20:59 <sesivany> anything else to this topic?
17:21:36 <sesivany> if not, let's move forward.
17:21:51 <bckurera> Ihave few
17:22:07 <bckurera> This is for Q2 right?
17:22:46 <bckurera> Then next saturday we are having APACbi weekly, can we still go for the approvals for fun request
17:23:05 <sesivany> bckurera: it's for both. We'd like to share how much the regions spent in the last quarter and how it looks like for the next one.
17:23:14 <bckurera> Even though we do not talk about the Q2 budget in famsco
17:23:15 <tuanta> Q1 of FY2014 (from 3-5/2013), bckurera
17:23:45 <sesivany> bckurera: there is no deadline. Q1 is already closed.
17:23:56 <bckurera> Ok cleared :-) thanks
17:24:31 <sesivany> bckurera: the thing is that rsuehle told me 2 weeks ago that we'd so far spent only 8k out of 27k allocated for Q1.
17:24:57 <tuanta> bckurera: requests for reviewing in the next APAC meeting will be accounted in Q2
17:25:00 <sesivany> bckurera: we just want to make sure that regions are on track and have no long-term problems to meet the budget plans.
17:25:27 <bckurera> tuanta,  yes it is obvious
17:26:07 <sesivany> the goal is to avoid situation that at the end of the fiscal year, we will find out that we have spent only 2/3 of our budget or something.
17:26:08 <bckurera> sesivany,  if so that means we lost around 19k and we cannot use it again?
17:26:49 <aeperezt> yes we were working on yarly budget not quaterly
17:26:59 <aeperezt> *yearly
17:27:06 <sesivany> bckurera: yes and no, I've spoken about it with rsuehle several times and told her that we can't have quarterly deadlines.
17:27:34 <aeperezt> and then the other part was that the credit card charges do't go to the month but to next month
17:27:48 <aeperezt> when the statement is don
17:27:53 <aeperezt> *done
17:27:57 <sesivany> bckurera: but OSAS has strict quarterly budgets, so they lose the money. Our budget is part of their budget, but we shouldn't be affected. They should balance it somehow.
17:28:06 <aeperezt> so that is what we need to learn to work
17:28:11 <bckurera> sesivany,  yes we need to get it clarified and yearly is the best
17:28:33 <sesivany> so we should try to land as many expenses in the same quarter as they're planned to help OSAS.
17:28:42 <aeperezt> when was reimbursed not when the ticket was filled
17:29:04 <sesivany> so please remind people that they should not take time to ask for reimbursement.
17:29:05 <tuanta> +1 sesivany
17:29:37 <bckurera> Yes agree with you
17:29:47 <sesivany> we have cases when people ask for reimbursement after 6 months of more. I don't want to set any strict rule, but it's just not acceptable.
17:30:15 <sesivany> if people want money back from Fedora, they should find time to provide receipt and ask for reimbursement.
17:31:13 <sesivany> but that's something we can discuss more in detail at the meeting.
17:31:50 <sesivany> ok, can we move on?
17:31:57 <bckurera> Yes will move
17:32:17 <sesivany> #topic Segio's Blog post (vol. 2)
17:32:25 <sesivany> just very briefly...
17:32:35 <sesivany> because we discussed it in length last time.
17:32:46 <sesivany> #link http://blog.sergiodj.net/post/2013-05-16-so-long-ambassadors/
17:32:50 <aeperezt> sesivany, ok
17:32:58 <sesivany> for those who don't know what's going on.
17:33:30 <sesivany> aeperezt: I read a blogpost of one Brazilian ambassador who felt really offended by the original blogpost.
17:34:00 <aeperezt> have not seen it
17:34:07 <sesivany> aeperezt: I hope the case hasnt caused any big turmoil in the regional community.
17:34:22 * sesivany is searching for it.
17:34:26 <aeperezt> sesivany, it has and some step are in place
17:34:47 <aeperezt> sesivany, there will be a new mentor on Brazil
17:35:18 <aeperezt> latam mentor are selecting the best candidate for it
17:35:59 <tuanta> I prefer peer program as sesivany mentioned last meeting
17:36:12 <sesivany> aeperezt: I just wanted to say that FAmSCo is here to help in case the situation gets out of control. FAmSCo should help in such cases with advice, judging etc.
17:36:15 <tuanta> it's much easier
17:36:33 <aeperezt> sesivany, thanks
17:36:48 <tuanta> please do not forget we also have cwg
17:37:06 <sesivany> I've found it...
17:37:12 <sesivany> #link http://www.cleitonlima.com.br/2013/05/dont-throw-a-grenade-when-you-leave-some-place/
17:37:38 <tuanta> which I am also a member
17:37:44 <tuanta> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_working_group
17:38:19 <aeperezt> sesivany, I will read it
17:38:30 <sesivany> tuanta: thanks for pointing that out.
17:38:41 * tuanta reading it
17:39:01 * bckurera reading.....
17:40:47 <aeperezt> Now that I read it
17:41:34 <aeperezt> sesivany, he refer to "that every year we have a war when the FISL (Free Software’s International Forum) is approaching. It goes more far that discuss about money, and enter in a “I did more for Fedora than you did” to receive the money to pay the costs to represent Fedora in the event. And that’s exactly what happened this year as well."
17:42:19 <aeperezt> well that is true and before the issue with fisl was simple group desided who goes and that was the main issue
17:43:10 <aeperezt> this year we open it before that desisions where made on close doors
17:44:04 <sesivany> aeperezt: openness can sometimes bring the opposite effect than expected, but it's better in long term.
17:44:25 <tuanta> +1 sesivany
17:44:41 <aeperezt> At the end I have to rescue the comment by brochecha , fedora community on Brazil is not healty
17:45:02 <aeperezt> sesivany, that is what I wanted it to be everything has to be transparent
17:45:36 <aeperezt> the main issue on Brazil is for many people the mention of Padula on the list cause trouble
17:46:04 <sesivany> aeperezt: that's a good step, now it's important to make sure people can work in transparent environment. Sometimes they take time to get used to it.
17:47:00 * nirik would like to note there's a request for a second br mailing list: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3814
17:47:09 <aeperezt> right, I think I'm taking the bullet for that, but there are many people on Brazil that has agreed specially new ones
17:47:25 <aeperezt> nirik, you are welcome to bring that
17:47:27 <aeperezt> here
17:48:03 <nirik> yeah, it's not been made yet (two lists competing seems non ideal to me), but perhaps FAmSCO could weigh in on it...
17:48:28 <aeperezt> what really need there is a another moderator
17:48:31 <sesivany> nirik, aeprerezt: what is wrong with the current one?
17:48:32 <aeperezt> on the list
17:49:05 <aeperezt> sesivany, the issue now is that the list is close, if you want to join need owner approval
17:49:06 <nirik> I don't know any details. Just the request for a new list and what I have heard second hand.
17:49:25 <nirik> I heard that the moderator is slow to add new people or moderate.
17:49:28 <aeperezt> people on the list has ask for another moderator
17:50:00 <aeperezt> but manteiner has not appoint someone but he said it is a good idea
17:50:07 <aeperezt> but does not take action
17:50:35 <aeperezt> nirik, you right
17:50:55 <aeperezt> I got lot of complains about it
17:50:56 <sesivany> aeperezt: can fedora infra do it if the regional community proposes an additional moderator?
17:51:41 <tuanta> yes, it's better to request infra to add more moderators
17:51:46 <aeperezt> sesivany, my response was talk to manteiner. If he does not solve ask infra to add others
17:51:48 <nirik> as a side note, I don't know why the list is closed. Shouldn't at least archives be open to all?
17:51:57 <tuanta> not to create a new list
17:52:10 <aeperezt> nikik archives are open
17:52:13 <nirik> oh, they are... nevermind.
17:52:22 * nirik thought they were not for some reason, sorry
17:52:46 <sesivany> nirik: that's right, closed mailing list for users looks a bit odd.
17:53:01 <aeperezt> sesivany, right
17:53:29 <sesivany> aeperezt: can you bring this up in the LATAM community?
17:53:33 <aeperezt> nirik can I modify the ticket so the request changes to add another moderators
17:53:37 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes
17:53:49 <nirik> aeperezt: sure.
17:54:08 <nirik> might talk to the submitter of the ticket and see if they are ok with that or want more.
17:54:10 <sesivany> there seems to be two solutions: 1. add another moderator, 2. open the mailing list for everyone since it's a user mailing list.
17:54:22 <aeperezt> sesivany, we try to solve the issue by talking to the manteiner
17:54:29 <aeperezt> with no response
17:54:31 <aeperezt> so
17:54:47 <aeperezt> sesivany, brasil has 3 list
17:55:02 <aeperezt> that one is like ambassadors list
17:55:06 <aeperezt> but still
17:55:22 <aeperezt> don't know why it needs to be closed
17:55:27 <tuanta> too many lists. it's not necessary, I think
17:55:28 <sesivany> aeperezt: then the next step should be a request to infra arguing that the maintainer is not responsive.
17:55:34 <aeperezt> tuanta, right
17:55:41 <aeperezt> sesivany, right
17:55:56 <aeperezt> will change the request on the ticket
17:56:07 <aeperezt> I don't like to splits things around
17:56:29 <aeperezt> but issue is that if they cannot solve the issue the have to go higher
17:56:48 <sesivany> aeperezt: ok
17:57:08 <aeperezt> we try to be open
17:57:18 <aeperezt> another issue came up this weekend
17:57:31 <aeperezt> and touch the brazilian domain
17:57:57 <aeperezt> and is the freemedia program on brazil seems like that domain point people to a form that does not exist
17:58:07 <aeperezt> instead of freemedia track
17:58:52 <aeperezt> so a discution on the list is progress and the main idea is to point request to fedora freemedia track
17:59:20 <sesivany> aeperezt: so it's not a problem of unresponsive maintainer?
17:59:48 <aeperezt> sesivany, that is another matter
18:00:43 <sesivany> I'm afraid we're now too deep in LATAM issues.
18:00:49 <aeperezt> the brazilian ambassadors mailing lists is maintainer unresponsive or when he does he agreed but not solved
18:01:17 <aeperezt> sesivany, it a country issue, that inside Latam
18:01:37 <sesivany> FAmSCo is here it help with issues when they prove not to be solvable in the region.
18:01:56 <aeperezt> sesivany, that is what we are trying to do now
18:02:05 <sesivany> aeperezt: we can easily track in in a ticket created in FAmSCo trac.
18:02:29 <aeperezt> next latam meeting we will talk about new mentor on Brazil
18:02:37 <aeperezt> there is a ticket on latam track
18:02:40 <aeperezt> about that
18:02:49 <sesivany> but all I can say now is that FAmSCo is watching the situation and is ready to help if the situation asks for it.
18:03:12 <tuanta> ticket number please, aeperezt
18:03:22 <aeperezt> and next week a ticket on famsco will be a new mentor for Brazil so famsco can approved
18:03:54 <sesivany> #info FAmSCo is watching the situation in the Brazilian community and is ready to help if necessary.
18:04:09 <aeperezt> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-latam/ticket/120
18:04:23 <aeperezt> I will also address the issue with the mailling list
18:05:47 <aeperezt> we appreciate famsco support and we are working to make the situation better
18:05:49 <sesivany> ok guys, we've spent too much time on this issue regarding we discussed it last time, too.
18:06:01 <tuanta> it
18:06:08 <tuanta> it's a hot topic :)
18:06:34 <sesivany> tuanta: I know, but if we can to discuss it in length, we should move it to a ticket.
18:06:36 <aeperezt> tuanta, yes
18:06:58 <sesivany> We just can't spend an hour on it at FAmSCo meeting.
18:06:59 <tuanta> aeperezt: you should open a new ticket in FAmSCo track
18:07:30 <sesivany> there used to be a 15-minute rule which I don't have to necessarily follow, but there was something about it.
18:07:31 <tuanta> LATAM trac is not in English
18:07:35 <aeperezt> tuanta, the idea is to open it once we have the candidates as part of the solution to the issues on the region
18:08:31 <tuanta> +1 sesivany, really good rule
18:09:35 <sesivany> ok, if you feel we need to discuss it more, please open a ticket in FAmSCo trac.
18:10:01 <sesivany> if there is nothing else you want to add, I'm going to end the meeting.
18:11:16 <tuanta> no more from me
18:11:24 <sesivany> ok, thank you for coming and meet you next week! don't forget it will be the budget meeting! ;)
18:12:12 <sesivany> #endmeeting