16:00:04 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2014-06-10
16:00:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun 10 16:00:04 2014 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:09 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
16:00:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
16:00:13 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
16:00:24 <sesivany> .hellomynameis eischmann
16:00:25 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
16:00:42 <yn1v> .fas yn1v
16:00:43 <zodbot> yn1v: yn1v 'Neville A. Cross' <yn1v@taygon.com>
16:00:49 * yn1v Nicaragua
16:00:50 <sesivany> robyduck: ping
16:01:03 <sesivany> lbazan: ping
16:01:14 <sesivany> masta: ping
16:03:31 <sesivany> ok, let's wait a bit more if someone shows up.
16:03:39 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
16:03:40 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
16:05:42 <sesivany> I think the hottest topic now is the Flock sponsorships.
16:05:54 <robyduck> +1
16:05:55 <sesivany> robyduck, yn1v: wanna discuss it?
16:06:06 <robyduck> sure
16:06:23 <yn1v> not sure what to said about that
16:06:56 <sesivany> yn1v: do you have any updates about fudcon? Maybe we can start with that.
16:06:59 <robyduck> well it involves more likely NA and EMEA
16:07:22 <sesivany> I'd like to have more people to discuss. Maybe someone will show up meanwhile.
16:07:31 <sesivany> #topic FUDCon LATAM
16:07:41 <lbazan> .fas lbazan
16:07:43 <zodbot> lbazan: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
16:07:45 <yn1v> There is an email from Ruth saying to everyone to be patient
16:07:54 * lbazan late!
16:07:58 <yn1v> that sponsorship to flock will happen
16:08:13 <sesivany> yn1v: let's discuss fudcon now.
16:08:16 <sesivany> any updates?
16:08:35 <yn1v> we have a meeting on Sunday
16:09:07 <sesivany> yn1v: local or on IRC?
16:09:16 <yn1v> we agreed that we will host public irc meetings on saturday at 21:00  GMT-6
16:09:50 <yn1v> it was a local face to face meeting of people involved in organizing the event
16:10:44 <yn1v> the key point that is holding us back is that the person from university has not confirmed dates
16:11:05 <sesivany> ok, it's a good idea to hold regular meetings. We started that with Flock and it's definitely beneficial.
16:11:17 <yn1v> It supposed to happen last week, but she didn't reply
16:11:31 <sesivany> #info The venue for FUDCon LATAM is yet to be confirmed.
16:12:14 <sesivany> #info the local organizers will have a meeting and an IRC meeting is at 21:00  GMT-6 on Saturday.
16:12:36 <sesivany> ok, tuan is not here, so we can't discuss apac for the next year.
16:12:49 <sesivany> so let's move on to the flock topic, shall we?
16:13:00 <lbazan> ok
16:13:01 <sesivany> #topic Flock Sponsorships
16:13:40 <sesivany> yn1v: the problem is not that it takes time. What I want to discuss is a possibility to sponsor people from the regional budgets.
16:14:27 <sesivany> I think it's up to regions, but we are all active in the regional communities, so we might share ideas and opinions.
16:14:56 <sesivany> I'm considering to sponsor several people in EMEA if we have good candidates.
16:15:21 <sesivany> but other regions have a smaller budget and of course it's more expensive to get someone from there to Flock.
16:15:27 <sesivany> so it might differ.
16:15:45 <sesivany> is it something that LATAM is considering, lbazan, yn1v?
16:16:15 <lbazan> I think 2 or 3 people with the budget
16:16:37 * masta looks in
16:16:37 <robyduck> I think we should split the two topics. One is sponsoring people from the regional budget, and every region can use their budget for that.
16:16:51 <masta> hello, sry I'm late... was in another meeting until recently
16:16:57 <robyduck> the other is sponsoring attendees from the FLOCK budget.
16:18:02 <sesivany> robyduck: I don't think we can do much about sponsoring people from the flock budget. The budget is extremely tight and we won't even have enough money for the speakers.
16:18:11 <robyduck> we should consider the first one only if there is not enough budget to sponsor (also partially) who really contributes.
16:18:27 <yn1v> I would like to sponsor people from LATAM budget, but I think it is expensive
16:18:41 <lbazan> yn1v: +1
16:18:43 <robyduck> sesivany: I don't agree with that, sorry
16:18:47 <sesivany> I personally won't ask for any funding, and will stay in a student dormitory even though I'm a speaker.
16:19:15 <robyduck> sesivany: and that is great, and most people will also be from Brno, right?
16:19:43 <sesivany> robyduck: the reality is that Flock doesn't have any sponsor besides Red Hat. We in fact have much less money than last year.
16:19:49 * masta is not asking for funding either =(
16:20:06 <robyduck> This year FLOCK is the EMEA one, so I don't get why we can't have some budget for contributors who work constantly on the Fedora Project, but are not speakers.
16:20:13 <sesivany> Google pulled out and that chipped in $15k last year.
16:20:53 <robyduck> sesivany: if you sum the two ex-FUDCons and add what has been cut from APAC and LATAM you have 60k, right?
16:21:11 <sesivany> robyduck: the budget for Flock is $80k.
16:21:19 <robyduck> the actual FLOCK budget is 70k AFAIK
16:21:26 <sesivany> $50k goes to sponsorships.
16:21:41 <sesivany> they currently have requests for $70k.
16:21:59 <robyduck> yes, because most are NA speakers!
16:22:28 * cwickert is sorry for being late
16:22:49 <robyduck> don't understand me the wrong way, I'm just saying, not sponsoring anyone is not the right way to gather new contributors or better, to motivate activate contributors.
16:22:54 <sesivany> cwickert: we're discussing Flock sponsorships.
16:22:58 <cwickert> I know
16:23:35 <sesivany> robyduck: it's a question for a large debate what Flock should look like.
16:23:36 <robyduck> I'm just saying, with really few budget we would be able to sponsor at least partially some active contributors
16:24:05 <sesivany> if we cancel half of the talks and have working sessions instead, then we can sponsor people that are coming to Flock to get stuff done.
16:24:09 <robyduck> sesivany: agree, but shouldn't it be a sort of continuity of the "good old" FUDCon?
16:24:30 <robyduck> as cwickert said it should be a "docon"
16:24:49 <sesivany> but it's not really something we can change now for this year's Flock.
16:24:52 <robyduck> so we need probably also contrinbutors that are not speakers or redhatters from Brno.
16:25:02 <sesivany> the schedule is published, it's set.
16:25:04 <cwickert> robyduck: actually I think FLOCK should be different from FUDCon, but that's a different story
16:25:05 <robyduck> sesivany: we just spoke about this last year
16:25:16 <cwickert> ?
16:25:26 <sesivany> cwickert: just speak.
16:25:36 <sesivany> there is too few of us to follow the protocol.
16:25:41 <cwickert> Can anybody quickly update me about what exactly we are discussing right now? What are the diffeernt views on the issue?
16:25:58 <robyduck> sesivany: can you resume pls?
16:26:12 <sesivany> cwickert: we're discussing whether other people than speakers should be sponsored from the flock budget.
16:26:40 * cwickert guessed that much ;)
16:27:07 <sesivany> cwickert: we didn't get to the other question: whether regions should sponsor someone from their budget.
16:27:23 <cwickert> is anybody here who thinks only speakers should be founded? is anybody here who thinks only NA and EMEA people should be founded?
16:28:10 <sesivany> cwickert: I do think that other people should be sponsored, but I don't think we can do much about it now for this year's Flock.
16:28:16 * robyduck 's answer to those questions is "no"
16:28:27 <cwickert> So, AFAIK the schedule is set and all speakers are funded. great, that means that we have a conference full of speakers. means, there is no audience but speakers. Sounds pretty broken to me. :)
16:28:41 <robyduck> cwickert: +1000
16:28:45 <sesivany> we had a planning meeting 2 hours ago. We have much less money this year than last year. We don't even have enough money for sponsors.
16:28:47 <robyduck> that's what I am saying
16:28:51 <yn1v> no, I would like a broader set of people attending to flock
16:28:57 <cwickert> ok, lets focus on what we can actually do
16:29:03 <sesivany> cwickert: no, speakers are not funded.
16:29:18 <sesivany> cwickert: but it's not important for the topic in fact.
16:29:52 <cwickert> sesivany: lets assume they will be funded, I am optimistic the flock team will get the missing money somehow
16:29:53 <sesivany> cwickert: the funding requests from speakers are $70k in total, we only have $50k.
16:30:12 <cwickert> well, that's why we waste money, but that's a different issue
16:30:31 <robyduck> sesivany: FLOCK is not really FUDCon, I agree with that, but making an event where speakers speak to spekaers and redhatters, that's not the right way. We need to motivate the active contributors within the project.
16:30:31 <sesivany> cwickert: ok, I was just saying that to convey the info that there are not high chances for sponsorships for other people.
16:30:49 <robyduck> just to repeat also to cwickert what I said before ;)
16:31:10 <cwickert> ok, do we think that FAmSCo and/or the regions should do something? for this year I mean
16:31:46 <sesivany> cwickert: speaking for EMEA, I think we can allocate $2000 to it. Not more.
16:32:01 <sesivany> which should be enough to sponsor a few people.
16:32:05 <cwickert> that's not much
16:32:08 <robyduck> sesivany: the more the better
16:33:07 <sesivany> but I'd like to see strong arguments because I don't want to be dragged into the situation when people will complain that someone gets sponsored just for applying a bit earlier than someone else.
16:33:08 <robyduck> cwickert: sesivany: if that's the way we plan FLOCK, I propose to insert FLOCK sponsoring in every regional budget plan from next year on!
16:33:16 <cwickert> robyduck: I beg to disagree. It's not the more the better, we want the *best*, not the *most* people
16:33:32 <sesivany> if we don't have good candidates with strong arguments, I'd rather save the money for something else.
16:33:44 <robyduck> cwickert: the more money the better, I want to have the best people there, sure.
16:34:17 <cwickert> sesivany: if we sponsor say 5 people, we must not make it first come first served
16:34:30 <robyduck> and the most active, who really deserves the sponsoship (and that should be the way to sponsor them from FLOCK budget, but anyway...)
16:34:51 <cwickert> and if there are no good candidates, we should not open that can of worms
16:35:02 <robyduck> cwickert: +1
16:35:17 <sesivany> cwickert: should we make a call or reach out to good candidates ourselves?
16:35:22 <yn1v> is it a prize for collaboration or an opportunity to do stuff on site?
16:35:53 <cwickert> yn1v: let us not consider it a prize, I want people who want to do something at FLOCk
16:36:06 <yn1v> okey
16:36:24 <cwickert> sesivany: I think we should make a call. Something like "5 wildcards availably, apply within 1 week on trac"
16:36:31 <cwickert> available*
16:36:47 <yn1v> same rules for sponsorship, it has to do something worth of the sponsorship
16:36:54 <sesivany> cwickert: 5 wildcards, each with a limit of $400?
16:36:55 <robyduck> and it should not depend on how long you're contributing, but what you want to do there and what you're doing now.
16:37:22 <yn1v> +1 robyduck
16:37:27 <robyduck> sesivany: what about more wildcards and less budget?
16:37:40 <cwickert> sesivany: I don't think we should limit them, but limit the whole think to 2000
16:38:03 <robyduck> I mean, if I want to get there, I will also go there if I get just the flight (which does not cost much within Europe)
16:38:19 <sesivany> cwickert: but it's not really a decision for FAmSCo, but for the region. So I'll bring it up at tomorrow's meeting.
16:38:24 <cwickert> robyduck: simple question: do you want to come or not?
16:38:46 <robyduck> If I get holidays I will come
16:39:01 <cwickert> and would the sponsorship really make a difference for you?
16:39:07 <sesivany> robyduck: we can also sponsor the accommodation, but I would require the candidates to stay in the student dormitory.
16:39:13 <robyduck> I have a problem that it is not during weekend
16:39:30 <sesivany> sponsoring a €90 room for someone... I'd rather sponsor more people.
16:39:46 <sesivany> I'm staying in the student dormitory, too, just to save Fedora's money.
16:39:59 <robyduck> no really, flight is 90€ today I guess, dunno if there is space in the dormitory
16:40:11 <sesivany> robyduck: we can get more.
16:40:15 <sesivany> robyduck: rooms
16:40:53 <cwickert> robyduck: my point is: if your flight is 90EUR, then it's probably not the important factor for decision making
16:41:31 <sesivany> I don't think other regions have enough funds to get someone to Flock.
16:41:39 <cwickert> lets ask
16:41:44 <robyduck> cwickert: I'm not speakin for me personally, I have that opinion in favour of all active contributors
16:41:47 <yn1v> I think that there is no clear message. I make a reservation at the hotel because that sound formal, but I happily will stay at the dorms
16:43:06 <cwickert> robyduck: what I wanted to say is that I want to sponsor people who otherwise would not come, but I don't want to sponsor people who are not sure if they are willing to pay 90 EUR from their own pocked
16:43:09 <cwickert> pocket*
16:43:26 <robyduck> clear, agree
16:43:27 <sesivany> yn1v: no, the hotel is ok, if you're flying from overseas, you should have a good bed to lay on.
16:43:48 <yn1v> :)
16:43:54 <robyduck> but there also people for whom it makes a difference if we can cover say 150-200€ for the flight
16:43:59 <yn1v> In any case, if LATAM decide to sponsor one person will cost about $1,500 or $2,000 depending on where that person is located
16:44:24 <sesivany> yn1v: yes, for LATAM it is expensive.
16:45:56 <cwickert> ok, so, what can we agree upon? that every region should check if and how much money they have left and if so, ask in the regional meeting if people are ok with spending some money?
16:46:03 <cwickert> I think we need to get this going quickly
16:46:09 <robyduck> +1
16:46:39 <yn1v> +1
16:46:54 <sesivany> cwickert: that's also my opinion. I sometimes feel like we a bit spoil the contributors. I'm going to GUADEC and paying everything from my pocket. If it's one or two very important events which Flock should be for fedora contrib, I don't see a problem.
16:46:58 <sesivany> +1 btw
16:47:57 <robyduck> we should also ask to FLOCK organizers to plan a small attendee budget for 2015
16:48:12 <robyduck> (IMHO)
16:48:15 * cwickert is +1 to his own proposal ;)
16:49:00 <sesivany> #info FAmSCo asks the regional communities to check if they can allocate some money to sponsor their contributors to attend Flock.
16:49:04 <robyduck> sesivany: right, but think also about students who don't work, but contribute.
16:49:29 <cwickert> #agreed All regions should check if they can allocate some money to sponsor additional attendees. If so, have their regional meeting approve the money and then come back with numbers (money and number of candidates). Report back next week please
16:49:30 <sesivany> robyduck: yes, students are a different case.
16:50:23 <robyduck> anything other on this topic?
16:50:34 <robyduck> or more proposals?
16:50:46 <cwickert> sesivany: can you do this for EMEA?
16:50:47 <yn1v> There is the proposal for mentor
16:51:10 <sesivany> robyduck: I just sometimes get a feeling that some people think that sponsorship is something obvious and if there is not money, they feel offended that Fedora don't pay them to go to a conference. It should always be a nice-to-have thing.
16:51:30 <sesivany> cwickert: sure
16:51:37 <robyduck> sesivany: I agree with that statement ;)
16:52:07 <sesivany> done with this topic?
16:52:20 <robyduck> I think yes
16:52:30 <sesivany> ok
16:52:54 <sesivany> #topic LATAM mentor proposal
16:53:02 <sesivany> yn1v: do you have a link to the ticket?
16:53:08 <yn1v> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Delete
16:53:20 <yn1v> I can look up the ticket
16:54:32 <sesivany> .famsco 365
16:54:32 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/365
16:54:37 <yn1v> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/365
16:55:08 <sesivany> yeah, but we got stuck last time on the fact that lvaz was not even an ambassador in fas, right?
16:55:18 <yn1v> well, in regional meeting it was agreed that Matias was a suitable candidate for mentoring ambassadors
16:56:10 <sesivany> yn1v: was the situation with lvaz cleared?
16:56:17 <yn1v> yes, I think that was a honest mistake, people assumed as Leonardo was an active collaborator that he was an ambassador
16:56:28 <robyduck> :/
16:57:17 <sesivany> ok, the new mentor is proposed by lbazan anyway.
16:57:45 <sesivany> if yn1v and lbazan say he's a good candidate I don't see a reason not to approve him.
16:57:59 <robyduck> .fasinfo delete
16:58:00 <zodbot> robyduck: User: delete, Name: Matías Kreder, email: mkreder@gmail.com, Creation: 2009-06-01, IRC Nick: delete, Timezone: America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 2048R/54A62E60, Status: active
16:58:03 <zodbot> robyduck: Approved Groups: fedorabugs packager ambassadors cla_fedora cla_done freemedia marketing +fedora-socialmedia cla_fpca
16:58:17 <robyduck> should we vote?
16:58:18 <yn1v> and it is backed up by latam
16:58:39 <sesivany> yep, +1
16:58:40 <yn1v> +1
16:58:43 <robyduck> +1
16:58:56 <cwickert> +1
16:59:07 <sesivany> ok, approved.
16:59:22 <yn1v> There was one more thing
16:59:36 <sesivany> #agreed FAmSCo approves Matias Kreder as an ambassador mentor for LATAM.
16:59:43 <sesivany> yn1v: go ahead.
16:59:48 <yn1v> lbazan, will check how we are about the balance
17:00:17 <yn1v> between Spanish speaking mentors and Portuguese speaking mentors
17:00:19 <robyduck> sesivany: can you mark an action for tuan to remove lvaz from the mentor status?
17:00:44 <yn1v> Not that is an issue at the moment, but to confirm that we are fine
17:01:01 <sesivany> #action tuanta to remove lvaz from the group of mentors, and add delete (matias kreder).
17:01:35 <sesivany> yn1v: do we have any Portuguese speaking mentors?
17:01:43 <yn1v> yes, Bruno
17:02:18 <yn1v> I was concern to keep an eye on him to avoid overload
17:02:27 <sesivany> ok
17:02:56 <yn1v> as I said, it is not an issue at the moment
17:03:22 <sesivany> we should also document the process for adding new mentors as we promised at the last meeting. But I don't really have time for it right now (busy with Flock).
17:03:32 <sesivany> so if there is any volunteer for that...
17:03:52 <yn1v> o/
17:03:58 <yn1v> I will do it
17:04:09 <sesivany> yn1v: thanks
17:04:20 <sesivany> yn1v: I think we should create a ticket and discuss it there first.
17:04:38 <sesivany> because last time we didn't completely agreed what the process should look like.
17:04:52 <yn1v> okey
17:04:52 <robyduck> sesivany: +1
17:05:41 <sesivany> #action yn1v to create a ticket in famsco trac to discuss the process for adding new mentors.
17:05:50 <sesivany> ok, are we done for today?
17:06:00 * sesivany will have to leave soon.
17:06:07 <yn1v> I think so
17:06:10 <robyduck> I think we are done
17:06:55 <sesivany> ok, thank you for attending today!
17:07:05 <sesivany> meet you next week!
17:07:19 <robyduck> yep, thanks also to you sesivany, see you.
17:07:22 <sesivany> #endmeeting