16:00:00 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2015-03-17
16:00:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Mar 17 16:00:00 2015 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:03 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
16:00:03 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
16:00:06 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
16:00:26 <sesivany> tuanta, robyduck, masta: ping
16:00:32 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
16:00:33 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
16:00:50 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
16:00:51 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
16:02:11 <sesivany> one more and we have a quorum after a long time :)
16:02:18 <robyduck> :)
16:02:26 <tuanta> :)
16:03:07 <tuanta> FAmSCo is a mostly historic committee :)
16:03:13 <sesivany> any topics to discuss today?
16:03:16 * decause waves
16:03:25 <decause> .fas decause
16:03:26 <tuanta> hi decause :)
16:03:28 <zodbot> decause: decause '' <remyd@civx.us>
16:03:31 <decause> tuanta: hello :)
16:03:37 * decause needs to improve that fas entry ;)
16:03:43 <sesivany> ah great
16:03:53 <sesivany> decause: welcome on board!
16:04:01 <decause> sesivany: many thanks
16:04:20 <decause> I'm still "drinking from the firehose" as they say, but I'm starting to get my legs under me
16:04:45 <robyduck> sesivany: Finally I run the amba script, maybe we can talk about this
16:04:46 <sesivany> ok, let's discuss one ticket first and then we can focus on the FOSCo transition thing.
16:04:51 <decause> I have a quick update to discuss if you wanna add me to agenda plz
16:05:02 <sesivany> robyduck: ok, another good topic.
16:05:30 <sesivany> decause: ok, let's start with the ticket, that should be quick.
16:05:47 <sesivany> #topic KDE-SIG media request
16:05:55 <sesivany> .famsco 376
16:05:55 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/376
16:06:30 <sesivany> KDE guys were not happy that they didn't have their spin on DVDs of F21.
16:06:59 <robyduck> yes but we also had a reason for promoting more the products
16:07:14 <sesivany> I understand it and I propose we produce 1000 DVDs for them.
16:07:19 <robyduck> now I feel it's time to push spins again
16:07:36 <sesivany> robyduck: they want to use the dvds for their purposes.
16:08:05 <sesivany> robyduck: that doesn't mean that we need to push spins as much as official products again.
16:08:16 <robyduck> define "their purposes"
16:08:25 <robyduck> ah ok
16:08:29 <tuanta> sesivany, you meant the same DVDs with Workstation? or a seprated one?
16:08:45 <sesivany> robyduck: but I understand that a sub-community of Fedora wants to have something to give away to their users.
16:09:01 <robyduck> sure, that's why I think we can make a Multi-desktop-spin DVD
16:09:01 <sesivany> tuanta: yes, they would have 1000 DVDs of KDE Spin.
16:09:23 <robyduck> sesivany: KDE only?
16:09:50 <sesivany> robyduck: I don't want to mix official products with anything else, the whole message would be lost.
16:10:00 <tuanta> that's fine. They are free to do so. They can request for funds in a specific region (EMEA, in this case?)
16:10:19 <sesivany> so Fedora Workstation DVDs + either KDE Spin DVDs or multi-spin DVDs.
16:10:23 <robyduck> sesivany: I agree, in fact I'm not speaking about workstation, but a DVD with KDE, Xfce and maybe LXDE.
16:10:52 <robyduck> making a KDE only DVD would be too "product" like IMHO
16:10:53 <sesivany> robyduck: yes, that could be doable.
16:11:37 <robyduck> and we avoid to have another ticket in 2 weeks from Xfce folks
16:11:49 <sesivany> robyduck: yeah
16:12:11 <robyduck> sesivany: I'm not sure, but what's about LXQT?
16:12:13 <sesivany> robyduck: let's suggest such a solution to them, we don't have a quorum to decide about it anyway.
16:12:51 <robyduck> Probably it's for F23
16:13:02 <sesivany> robyduck: frankly the only desktops that are alive in Fedora are GNOME, KDE. Xfce is half alive and all others are not maintained or it's just one person.
16:13:18 <sesivany> robyduck: not sure if anyone is working on LXQT.
16:13:30 <robyduck> yes they do
16:13:43 <robyduck> I think it's also available as group
16:13:49 <robyduck> but not yet a spin, so...
16:14:35 * robyduck is +1 to suggest a Multi Spin DVD for F22 (KDE, Xfce, LXDE)
16:14:36 <sesivany> ok, I will reply to the ticket that we suggest they go for a multi-spin DVDs, we'll see how they will take it.
16:15:07 <tuanta> that;s ok for me too
16:15:13 <sesivany> #action sesivany to suggest that we go for multi spin DVD.
16:15:43 <sesivany> next topic then
16:15:52 <sesivany> #topic FOSCo
16:16:04 <sesivany> decause: your turn
16:16:08 <decause> kk
16:16:24 <robyduck> oh, hi decause ;)
16:16:51 <decause> I'm still getting plugged into the conversations around FOSCO, and my role right now is all about listening
16:17:34 <decause> I'm trying to read all the archived discussions, and wrap my head around all the different constituencies that FOSCo will be comprised of
16:18:00 <decause> there are 2 pieces of infrastructure that are spun up to help gather input and direct tasks
16:18:14 <decause> we now have #fedora-outreach on freenode, and folks are starting to gather there
16:18:44 <decause> I'm going to announce to the various lists later this week that folks interested should join
16:18:57 <decause> the second piece of infrastructure is a trac instance
16:19:05 <decause> http://fedorahosted.org/fosco
16:19:44 <decause> this is mostly just a shell right now, but is a place where we can have folks file tickets, to then feed into the meeting agendas and contributor activity
16:20:56 <sesivany> decause: do you already have some idea how FOSCo should look? We've discussed that several times, but there was never any conclusion.
16:22:00 <robyduck> cwickert did a great summary yesterday and I think his thoughts are really good
16:22:14 <sesivany> decause: we're waiting for FOSCo as for redemption, most of us has been in FAmSCo for a long time and we're definitely overserving :)
16:22:16 <decause> sesivany: FOSCo includes many different parts of Fedora, and figuring out how best to organize this meta-organizing layer deserves discussion
16:22:25 <sesivany> robyduck: in the ticket or mailing list?
16:22:31 <robyduck> ML
16:23:07 <robyduck> sesivany: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/council-discuss/2015-March/013231.html
16:23:30 <tuanta> +1 robyduck. I read it and replied some ideas
16:23:32 * sesivany is quickly reading through it...
16:24:43 <decause> the first couple of meetings I think will mostly be about gathering input. I think cwickert's post from yesterday is an excellent starting point
16:25:38 <sesivany> his proposal is pretty much what I suggested 2 months ago, he proposes 9 seats, I proposed 7 (just one elected), otherwise it's the same. So... I'm all for it :)
16:25:46 <decause> I would add that in addition to the ambassadors/design/marketing, docs/translation/i18n/mentors and a few other groups should def have some stakeholders involved
16:26:38 <robyduck> maybe websites too
16:26:51 <robyduck> it's also an outreach channel
16:26:57 <decause> robyduck: nod nod nod
16:27:17 <tuanta> mentors group is not exactly a group, they are form of experienced people inside each those groups
16:27:28 <decause> tuanta: gotcha
16:28:34 <decause> these discussions will continue on the maillist, and in trac, and FOSCO is going to meet reguarly in IRC
16:28:41 <sesivany> we just have to make sure the scope is not too large, the idea behind FOSCo is to improve communication among teams that should work together, but we include too many teams that have rather little in common, it could have the opposite effect. Im not sure myself where the line is :/
16:29:59 <decause> sesivany: duly noted
16:31:08 <robyduck> once FOSCo will start working we also should, at least for a while redirect FAmSCo trac to FOSCo, just to redirect bookmarks and wiki links there
16:31:51 <sesivany> the question also is if there is enough interest in some teams. Ambassadors are used to having a steering committee, so we always find candidates, some other teams struggle to find their representatives for such committees.
16:32:05 <decause> sesivany: nod nod nod
16:34:02 <sesivany> for me, ambassadors, design and marketing is a must, then I would consider other teams properly how much they're directed to the outside of the project etc.
16:35:22 <sesivany> maybe having 9 seats, 4 for ambassadors, 2 for design and marketing and 3 elected where people from other teams can be elected could be a good start. And if there is really big interest in participation in one of the other teams, they can eventually get one seat permanently.
16:35:30 <robyduck> that's why we could try to involve candidates who are in more than a group, not just one. Having a translator who also is in docs or design would be nice, and we could avoid lack of candidates asking these people directly.
16:35:55 <robyduck> sesivany: +1, completely agree with that :)
16:36:25 <decause> robyduck: is there a place where we are collecting FOSCO proposals such as this already?
16:36:46 <robyduck> decause: we have a ticket IIRC
16:36:49 * robyduck looks
16:36:53 <sesivany> decause: there was a ticket opened for it.
16:36:58 <decause> robyduck: good good
16:37:15 <sesivany> .famsco 373
16:37:15 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/373
16:37:27 <decause> has FOSCo come to a consensus on when the next IRC meeting will happen?
16:37:27 <robyduck> thx sesivany
16:37:43 <sesivany> but Matt redirected the discussion to the outreach mailing list.
16:38:03 <tuanta> that ticket is also included in Christoph's message
16:38:06 <sesivany> but I think some concrete proposals that come from the discussion should be placed there.
16:39:01 <decause> sesivany: that seems reasonable to me.
16:39:19 <decause> +1
16:40:58 <decause> I won't lie, I've typed and deleted so many more things in this buffer than have shown up in channel
16:41:10 <decause> so I'm going to turn off my filers for a minute and just say a few things:
16:41:15 <decause> I am *so* thrilled to be here
16:41:32 <decause> I thought I was "in the loop" on Fedora things before
16:41:47 <decause> I really was only scratching the surface
16:42:17 <decause> this project is expansive, and there are so many moving parts, and in all the timezones
16:42:36 <decause> my experience with the Fedora community has been exceptionally positive
16:42:59 <decause> I am certainly in a "honeymoon" state right now, and want to help everyone do everything :P
16:43:34 <decause> figuring out how to prioritize, and not overcommit and burn out, and filter all the massive amounts of information is where I'm at right now
16:43:37 <sesivany> decause: glad to hear that
16:43:54 <sesivany> decause: don't let things burn you out.
16:43:54 <decause> The FCL position is a brand-new position
16:44:04 <decause> we're doing something that hasnt' been done before
16:44:25 <decause> many of my proposed tasks/roles have an external focus
16:44:27 <decause> but to me
16:44:51 <decause> my role is just as much about building up and supporting the people who are already here
16:44:56 <decause> who have been working for years
16:45:05 <decause> and doing amazing work, sometimes thankless work
16:45:16 <decause> I'm here to help bring shine to the things that are going right
16:45:27 <decause> I'm here to say thanks to the folks who are working hard
16:45:33 <decause> kick down blockers
16:45:42 <tuanta> sounds glad :)
16:45:49 <robyduck> :)
16:46:19 <decause> I'm not going to know everything, and everyone yet, but I want to
16:47:49 <decause> I don't wanna do too much monologue, but suffice it to say that I am *so* glad to be here, and want to get to know the ambassadors program properly, and I'm here to help
16:48:22 <robyduck> decause: thanks
16:48:35 <sesivany> decause: I'm hoping that you'll make a difference, it was definitely good news for me when I heard they'd hired you.
16:49:03 <sesivany> decause: if you have any questions about ambassadors, you can ask any of us, we'll be happy to help you.
16:49:16 <tuanta> +1 sesivany
16:49:55 <decause> I'll be hanging out in here, and will try to schedule some kind of "brain dumping" session with you folks in the near future
16:50:11 <sesivany> decause: we did a lot of work to make the regions pretty much independent, so they now work on their own. In the past, FAmSCo was not a steering committee, but a committee of every-day decisions.
16:50:41 <decause> sesivany: nod nod
16:51:37 <sesivany> decause: we also have functional budget, expense, and reimbursement processes, that's something we might want to expand to the rest of the project.
16:52:02 * decause is interesting in spinning up infra and tooling for sure
16:52:12 <tuanta> decause, I have no idea, but one thing you may help us is checking and pushing our budget proposals
16:52:30 <decause> tuanta: I'm having my first budgetary talks with OSAS thursday
16:52:37 <tuanta> FY2016 has been started for weeks
16:52:45 <tuanta> thanks, decause
16:53:03 <decause> tuanta: drop me a line and bring me up to speed if you can, or point me to where the convo is
16:53:11 <decause> decause@redhat
16:53:44 <robyduck> sesivany: last topic before ending?
16:53:51 <tuanta> sesivany has initiated this on the mailing list. I will look for it and drop you a line
16:54:02 <decause> tuanta: thank you
16:54:19 <sesivany> decause: if you want some background about the whole thing, we can arrange a call (I also work for RH, so it could be bluejeans), it's difficult to say everything over IRC or mail.
16:54:26 <tuanta> decause, you are welcome
16:54:38 <decause> sesivany: yes pleas. send calendar invite for Friday if you have time?
16:54:48 <sesivany> robyduck: yes
16:54:52 <sesivany> decause: I will
16:55:01 <decause> sesivany: will keep an eye out for it
16:55:08 <sesivany> #topic Removal of "Inactive" ambassadors
16:55:14 <sesivany> robyduck: your turn :)
16:55:36 <robyduck> So I was able to run the script finally, threebean did some changes on datanommer and it works fine
16:55:54 <decause> threeean++
16:55:57 <robyduck> we have 182 "inactive" ambassadors, no activity for at least 540 days
16:56:00 <tuanta> good.
16:56:24 <sesivany> what is the total number of ambassadors now?
16:56:27 <robyduck> some of them are inactive for more than 1200 days !
16:56:31 <sesivany> 600+ right?
16:56:34 <robyduck> total is 729
16:56:46 <tuanta> thanks robyduck
16:57:21 <robyduck> so if we agree I could filter them all out with email address and send the first email to all of them, as decided time ago
16:57:21 <sesivany> robyduck: good work
16:57:51 <sesivany> robyduck: yes
16:57:55 <robyduck> in fact this is related to tickets 355, 358 and 375
16:58:05 <robyduck> (India too)
16:58:29 <robyduck> sesivany: tuanta: or do you want to see the list of them before somewhere?
16:58:42 <sesivany> robyduck: although I was thinking that we could mark them as inactive right away and if they wanna be active they can change it themselves.
16:58:53 <tuanta> then following approved process, their FAS should be marked as "inactive".
16:58:53 <sesivany> robyduck: or how else did you want to filter them out?
16:58:55 <tuanta> +1 sesivany
16:59:50 <sesivany> robyduck: just mark them as inactive and send them an email: Hey, you haven't been active for 540 days, we mark you as inactive and if you wanna become active again, go to...
16:59:53 <robyduck> sesivany: I have already a list, and we said we should send them an email to say that they are going to be set as inactive
17:00:04 <robyduck> that can be also a solutiion
17:00:18 <tuanta> can they log into FAS once being marked inactive?
17:00:28 <sesivany> robyduck: but what would have to do to avoid that after the email?
17:00:29 <robyduck> but we didn't talk to Infra yet about doing a bulk action on ambassadors status
17:00:49 <robyduck> sesivany: they can simply login
17:00:50 <sesivany> robyduck: they would have to log in somewhere and then you would run the test again?
17:01:04 <robyduck> after 2 weeks I'll run the script again and then set them as inactive
17:01:20 <robyduck> lol, yes
17:01:44 <sesivany> robyduck: whatever flows your boat, it's more work for you, but if you're ok with it, I'm fine with both ways.
17:02:24 <robyduck> ok, I think I'll follow what we discussed in ML and wrote into the wiki page
17:02:35 * decause has to go momentarily
17:02:45 <sesivany> decause: ok, take care!
17:02:49 <robyduck> it would be more work to rewrite the wiki than running the script twice
17:02:59 <sesivany> robyduck: ok then
17:03:09 <robyduck> I'll copy FAmSCo in the email
17:03:12 <tuanta> I am ok with that, robyduck
17:03:42 <robyduck> I'm just not sure what kushal had for a list and if he wanted to look at it
17:04:31 <robyduck> but maybe he can see it after the process
17:04:41 <sesivany> robyduck: yes
17:04:47 <robyduck> ok the
17:04:49 <robyduck> EOF
17:04:52 <sesivany> we're out of time, anything else?
17:04:56 <robyduck> s/the/then
17:05:06 <tuanta> he is just interested in his list (Indian)
17:05:07 <robyduck> no, it's all fine. Thx
17:05:23 <robyduck> tuanta: I can't filter them per region actually
17:05:23 <tuanta> nope from me too
17:05:54 <sesivany> ok, see you next week!
17:06:00 <tuanta> robyduck, kushal can do it manually :)
17:06:04 <sesivany> #endmeeting