14:01:57 <potty> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2016-04-20
14:01:57 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 20 14:01:57 2016 UTC.  The chair is potty. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:57 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2016-04-20'
14:01:58 <gnokii> potty: mailga send regrets
14:02:06 <potty> #meetingname FAmSCo
14:02:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
14:02:18 <potty> .hello potty
14:02:19 <zodbot> potty: potty 'Abdel G. Martínez L.' <abdel.g.martinez.l@gmail.com>
14:02:29 <cwickert> potty: please make us chairs
14:02:37 <cwickert> .hello cwickert
14:02:37 <potty> #chair cwickert gnokii
14:02:37 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert gnokii potty
14:02:38 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@gmail.com>
14:02:43 <gnokii> .fas gnokii
14:02:43 <zodbot> gnokii: gnokii 'Sirko Kemter' <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de>
14:02:55 <potty> mailga sent regrets
14:03:00 <potty> lbazan sent regrets
14:03:24 <cwickert> tuanta, too
14:03:26 <decause> .hello decause
14:03:27 <zodbot> decause: decause 'Remy DeCausemaker' <decause@redhat.com>
14:03:30 <potty> tuanta sent regrets
14:03:34 <cwickert> #info mailga, lbazan and tuanta sent regrets
14:03:45 <cwickert> who else is missing?
14:04:02 <gnokii> yeah to be honest that meeting time is ugly for south east asia
14:04:25 <cwickert> so, only giannisk is missing
14:04:30 <cwickert> did anybody hear from him?
14:04:38 <potty> not me
14:05:16 <potty> #info No quorum today. Attendance: 3/7
14:07:02 <potty> Welcome!
14:07:17 <potty> Do anyone have a special topic to discuss?
14:07:28 <cwickert> !
14:07:39 * jflory7 is listening in
14:07:45 <cwickert> lazy consensus please!
14:07:55 <cwickert> potty: ok if I take over for this?
14:08:01 <potty> yes, you may cwickert :)
14:08:12 <cwickert> .fas 390
14:08:12 <zodbot> cwickert: steveo65 'STEVE Swirsky' <7fc42390@opayq.com> - pcguy390 'HDM' <pcguy390@gmail.com> - jessieann 'Jessica Buchta' <jessie_ann1390@hotmail.com> - r4rounak 'Rounak Agarwal' <rounakagarwal6390@gmail.com> - deepakdj26390 'Deepak jain' <deepakdj26390@gmail.com> - arthurf3902 'arthur flederus' <arthurf3902@yahoo.com> - stings40 'Mark Stenger' <mjstenger3906@hotmail.com> - lilixx 'Aura Lila Gutierrez Tejada' (1 more message)
14:08:18 <cwickert> oops
14:08:21 <cwickert> .famsco 390
14:08:22 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/390
14:08:41 <cwickert> As agreed in the last meeting, we wanted to further formalize this
14:08:51 <cwickert> some people felt clarification was needed
14:08:58 <cwickert> so I came up with a proposal
14:09:03 <cwickert> please read https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/390#comment:22
14:09:13 <cwickert> and let's vote on this then
14:09:26 <gnokii> still strange, i am sure who gives -1 will explain it right away
14:09:55 <cwickert> jflory7: I hope this proposal meets your initial idea
14:10:43 * potty is reading
14:10:50 * cwickert just fixed a typo
14:11:37 <jflory7> cwickert: I just read the latest comment and I think it sounds great! I'm +1 for it.
14:12:22 <potty> cwickert: finished reading... I'm +1 too. Good job!
14:12:28 <jflory7> cwickert++
14:12:34 <cwickert> thanks :)
14:13:41 <cwickert> jflory7: the only thing that is different from your initial proposal is that we will have to wait a week in any case (or at least it is not +7/-0). but I think this is a fair price for avoiding even longer deadlocks.
14:14:41 <cwickert> gnokii: what about you?
14:15:14 <gnokii> well i said strange to me, 7 days see above
14:15:50 <cwickert> gnokii: what's wrong with the 7 days?
14:16:32 <jflory7> cwickert: I think for some of the bigger decisions, particularly for budget / funding type decisions, this should give sufficient time for everyone to have time to consider and cast their vote. I think a week is fine.
14:16:37 <gnokii> so i give -1 and them i wait 7 days to say why?
14:16:53 <cwickert> gnokii: no, read again please
14:17:05 <cwickert> "In the event that there IS a negative vote by any member, that member must explain their thinking or logic behind their vote within the seven days timeframe."
14:17:20 <cwickert> so it is part of the voting timeframe
14:18:13 <potty> gnokii: you give -1 and explanation, then until the 7 days timeframe is gone the other people can rethink about their vote and change if necessary. If there's no change on voting, the ticket would be approved (because of majority of +1) or rejected (if there are more -1).
14:18:40 <cwickert> it is not "explain within seven days after voting" but "within the seven days timeframe", and that obviously refers to the voting timeframe mentioned in the previous sentence.
14:19:21 <gnokii> yeah cwickert I have to explain why i give -1 until 7 days later
14:19:41 <cwickert> right
14:19:57 <jflory7> And seven days after the *ticket* was originally filed
14:20:22 <cwickert> jflory7: well, after we agreed to vote
14:20:26 * jflory7 nods
14:21:05 <potty> correct
14:21:23 <gnokii> strange to me, I am sure it can be explained right away
14:21:59 <cwickert> gnokii: sometimes you might be on the go, so you can just say "Hey, I'm -1 and will explain why tomorrow"
14:22:21 <cwickert> anyway, do you think all questions are sorted out and you can vote now?
14:22:27 <gnokii> so makes 14 days then
14:22:45 <cwickert> no
14:22:49 <potty> no
14:22:59 <potty> all happens within the 7 days frame
14:23:02 <gnokii> 7 days I wait then I give a -1 and say he I am out of internet range then and wait 7 days to explain
14:23:23 <gnokii> its for me 14 days
14:23:36 <cwickert> gnokii: let me explain in german
14:23:52 <cwickert> "that timeframe" ist ein Demonstrativpronomen
14:24:01 <cwickert> "dieser Zeitraum"
14:24:17 <cwickert> und das bezieht sich ganz klar auf den Abstimmungszeitraum
14:24:42 <cwickert> for the others: and that refers to the voting timeframe
14:24:42 <gnokii> mmh
14:26:09 <gnokii> yeah fine
14:26:30 <cwickert> is that a +1 from you?
14:26:43 <gnokii> yes
14:26:47 <cwickert> great
14:26:51 <cwickert> that makes it +3
14:27:10 <cwickert> I will ask the other famsco members to vote on trac then
14:27:18 <cwickert> anything else on this?
14:28:25 <cwickert> .fasmco 389
14:30:17 <gnokii> hello/
14:30:19 <cwickert> .famsco 389
14:30:19 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/389
14:30:24 <cwickert> that worked
14:30:41 <cwickert> gnokii: mattdm asked about sponsors in https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/389#comment:11
14:31:53 <cwickert> potty: can you continue, somebody just requires my attention
14:31:59 <potty> cwickert: ok
14:32:11 * giannisk waves at everyone.
14:32:18 <cwickert> hey giannisk
14:32:44 <potty> hi giannisk
14:32:49 <giannisk> Sorry for the delay, couldn't make it earlier.
14:33:26 <potty> it is ok giannisk, we discussed about lazy consensus
14:33:48 <potty> and now we are waiting gnokii comments about the sponsors question made by mattdm
14:34:38 <gnokii> yeah he has an answer to that and i still wait for an answer from him
14:35:11 <gnokii> i want to get clearified why for pune nobody came and said 15k is to much
14:36:10 <gnokii> and yes there are sponsors, who would take a look into the bid would see it
14:36:35 * decause catches up on the backlog
14:36:36 <potty> gnokii: please update the ticket with the sponsors info
14:38:36 <gnokii> but maybe i get this time an answer to my question i asked tuanta and cwickert two meetings ago, as it looks it continues with the contributors thing
14:39:10 <gnokii> i want to know how many contributors live in puno
14:39:33 <decause> AFAIK, 15K is the max amount that we are willing to budget for a FUDCon. It's not that we cannot spend more than that to make one happen, but it will either have to come from 1) Outside Sponsorship (which is what mattdm was asking about) or 2) The regional Ambassador budget (should ambassadors approve the additional expense)
14:40:19 <potty> decause: correct
14:42:14 <gnokii> decause: it looks more mattdm says nobody requested ever more as 10k, what isnt true and i repeat there was and there are sponsors, even we lost the biggest one now and its clear writtten in the bid
14:42:41 <cwickert> gnokii: I don't really care how much contributors you have, I care about how many people do you think you have to fly in and how much it costs.
14:43:02 <gnokii> cwickert: why you then not ask that question for Puno?
14:43:26 <decause> gnokii: I cannot speak to what has happened far in the past, and I'm doing my best to piece together what has happened, but this year, we are allocating up to 10K for FUDCon LATAM, and up to 15K for FUDCon APAC from our "Fedora Events" budget (so far, the adjustment period is still active.)
14:43:44 <gnokii> I am sure they fly nearly everybody there also, what shall that nonsense to which place in APAC you would not hve to fly an amount?
14:44:13 <cwickert> gnokii: because their amount for flying in people is significantly bigger
14:44:16 <gnokii> decause: 15k is fine
14:44:40 <decause> gnokii: this is us 'saving' the funds, there is still the matter of the bid being approved
14:45:57 <cwickert> gnokii: let's ignore the airfare for now. What about the sponsors? Your bid only mentions two, but not how much they are willing to spend
14:46:11 <gnokii> decause: to be honest, all here have given up, because it always comes back to there live only 4 ambassadors in phnom penh and such nonsense
14:47:22 * decause goes back to GSoC administration deadlines
14:49:31 <cwickert> gnokii: really, that never was an issue for me
14:49:39 <cwickert> and not for anybody else
14:50:18 <cwickert> gnokii: how can we support you? what –except money and an approval of course– do you need to make this fudcon happen?
14:51:22 <gnokii> no?
14:51:25 <gnokii> Sirko, please be so kind as to clarify some things:
14:51:25 <gnokii> 1. Including you
14:51:25 <gnokii> [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
14:51:25 <gnokii> we currently have 4 ambassadors in Cambodia].
14:51:50 <cwickert> read on please
14:52:02 <gnokii> please cwickert be so kind and tell me an place in APAC which is not the RH office Pune that has more contributors
14:52:04 <cwickert> "How many more contributors do you think you will have to fly in order to have enough speakers?"
14:52:52 <gnokii> cwickert: the same amount as for the other fudcons apac
14:53:02 <cwickert> gnokii: I don't care about PUNE. If we followed their logic, we would have FLOCK in Brno and Raleigh all the time. Nobody wants that, just as nobody wants FUDCon APAC in Pune every (other) year.
14:53:31 <cwickert> I'm fine with doing FUDCon on a place with not so many contributors
14:53:32 <gnokii> exactly, but why you coming then and start with that?
14:53:46 <gnokii> fine, so where is then the problem?
14:53:50 <cwickert> because I want to know how many people we have to fly in and how much that costs
14:53:58 <cwickert> that's all
14:55:02 <gnokii> cwickert: how much that costs? Simple tuanta can choose a cheap domestic ticket for roundtrip 60$ and a bus ticket for 16$ or he can book a flight from Hanoi to Phnom Penh sitting 5hrs in Vientane drinking beer for 400$
14:56:18 <cwickert> Did he ever do that and expect us to pay for his beer or why do you bring this up now?
14:56:32 <cwickert> I really don't understand what you are up to.
14:57:23 <cwickert> I just want you to tell us "We have to fly in roughly X speakers and estimate it will cost us Y $"
14:58:39 <gnokii> cwickert: APAC has never done the way LATAM does it, asking first who wants come and then calculate the costs, it was more with submit your paper and then seeing
14:59:06 <cwickert> so how many people have submitted one?
14:59:49 <gnokii> how many have submitted to what an event that doesnt take place or what?
15:00:24 <cwickert> this is a chicken and egg problem then. If APAC has always done it this way, how did we ever solve this problem?
15:01:01 <gnokii> exactly and I dont understand why that never played a role before
15:01:09 <cwickert> it did in fact
15:01:25 <gnokii> hu
15:01:30 <cwickert> in my very first mail I pointed out that we always had these problems in APAC and asked how we solved it before
15:02:06 <cwickert> let me quote: "AFAIK travel is an ongoing problem for the APAC FUDCons. How did we solve the problem in the past?"
15:02:40 <gnokii> I have seen that, how it was solved in the past? Same way as we do
15:03:20 <potty> sorry guys but meeting is getting too long
15:03:38 <cwickert> well, but looking at previous bids, they came up with a reasonable budget where a larger chunk of the money was allocated for travel
15:03:46 <cwickert> potty: fair point
15:04:13 <cwickert> gnokii: can you please answer in the ticket? we need the answers in trac anyway for the people not present in this meeting
15:04:52 <cwickert> I'm fine with approving this, but if we want to convince the Council, we need to address mattdm's question about sponsors
15:05:11 <potty> cwickert: +1
15:05:22 <gnokii> cwickert: strange https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014
15:05:34 <gnokii> 5550$ are for me lesser then 6000k
15:06:11 <gnokii> 6k
15:07:55 <gnokii> and even more strange 8*600$ and 5*150$ for travel makes 13 person, well one more as in our bid
15:08:18 <cwickert> gnokii: well, China has a bigger community, so less people to fly in. Anyway, I'm tired of pointing fingers at other bids. If we want to get this one approved, we need answers. I'm the one to support your bid in the council
15:08:40 <cwickert> and I need to be prepared to answer the same questions that I've asked you
15:09:16 <gnokii> cwickert: are you sure its bigger?
15:09:48 <cwickert> at least to FAMA it is
15:10:50 <cwickert> anyway, you can point fingers all day, but it will not help making progress with this ticket. I trust you and we rely on your information, so please provide some more details and we can approve this.
15:11:25 <gnokii> yeah i try to give this answers again in the ticket
15:11:28 <cwickert> focus on sponsoring. if there is sponsoring, all these discussions about airfare become moot
15:11:31 <cwickert> thank you!
15:12:29 <potty> gnokii: thanks :)
15:13:03 <cwickert> ok, I think we need to stop now
15:13:21 <cwickert> #action gnokii to answer questions in #389
15:13:28 <potty> cwickert: yes
15:13:53 <cwickert> if nobody has anything, we'll close the meeting in 3 minutes
15:14:07 <potty> close it cwickert
15:14:16 <potty> Thank you all for participating
15:14:19 <gnokii> please my ticket from last week
15:14:27 <cwickert> gnokii: which one?
15:14:51 <gnokii> the solution for x-regional travel
15:15:16 <cwickert> .famsco 394
15:15:16 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/394
15:15:43 <potty> !
15:15:47 <cwickert> gnokii: thank you for bringing this up
15:15:56 <cwickert> can you also come up with a proposal?
15:16:53 <potty> My thinking (I have to leave the meeting): If the person wants to go to a country outside his/her region the regional budget should cover this. If the person is invited from another region then this region budget should cover it.
15:17:39 <cwickert> potty: I think it depends on the purpose: If the person wants to grow the community elsewhere, it is something different than flying there to attend a conference and learn
15:17:40 <gnokii> I think we should, getting out of the regional budgets 1k from each region and famsco decides that, because I really had the expirience by myself with that kind of travel
15:17:47 <cwickert> so I would decide by case
15:17:52 <gnokii> potty: your region is an example
15:18:00 * cwickert will add his thoughts on the ticket
15:18:09 <gnokii> like tatica she goes to LGM in europe, EMEA pazs
15:18:31 <cwickert> #action all FAmSCo members to add their thoughts on #394
15:18:36 <cwickert> #undo
15:18:36 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by cwickert at 15:18:31 : all FAmSCo members to add their thoughts on #394
15:18:43 <cwickert> #action all FAmSCo members to add their thoughts on #394 in the ticket by next week
15:18:55 <cwickert> #undo.
15:18:55 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by cwickert at 15:18:43 : all FAmSCo members to add their thoughts on #394 in the ticket by next week
15:19:04 * decause would like to request budget information updates if there is time
15:19:07 <gnokii> for me its just I made the ticket and nobody commented so far
15:19:23 <cwickert> #action all FAmSCo members to add their thoughts on #394 in the ticket by next week. if anybody wants to come up with a proposal, please go ahead.
15:19:37 <decause> #help Ambassadors please commit your Proposals, Reports, and Delegate Selections to the budget repo: http://pagure.io/fedora-budget
15:20:14 <potty> gnokii: sorry for not answering it earlier
15:20:20 <cwickert> ok, I think this is all we can do for now
15:20:27 <potty> decause: by this week i will send the budget info from LATAM
15:22:25 * cwickert will close this meeting in 3 minutes if noone objects
15:22:42 <decause> potty: the sooner the better, council is likely going to decide next meeting
15:22:45 <decause> (monday)
15:22:54 <decause> potty++
15:22:56 <cwickert> potty: what decause said
15:22:58 <decause> thank you for your help though :)
15:23:01 <potty> :)
15:23:07 <gnokii> decause: for APAC its tuanta
15:23:10 <decause> I've updated the budget.fp.o site with the info I have thusfar
15:23:31 <decause> gnokii: good to know. I just got some info from izhar on spending
15:23:33 <cwickert> #info send your budgets to decause ASAP. The councile wants to make a decision on Monday
15:23:49 <decause> but if you have any other info, that would be helpful for us to make decisions gnokii
15:23:59 <decause> do you know who APAC decided for delegates?
15:24:04 <gnokii> yes
15:24:14 <decause> gnokii: :) Please do tell!
15:24:23 * decause will update the site himself
15:24:23 <gnokii> the story teller will be gerad braad
15:24:37 <decause> .fas gerad
15:24:39 <zodbot> decause: 'gerad' Not Found!
15:24:51 <decause> .fas braad
15:24:51 <zodbot> decause: gbraad 'Gerard Braad (吉拉德)' <me+fedora@gbraad.nl>
15:24:53 <gnokii> .fas gbraad
15:24:53 <zodbot> gnokii: gbraad 'Gerard Braad (吉拉德)' <me+fedora@gbraad.nl>
15:25:04 <decause> treasurer?
15:25:08 <decause> Logsitician?
15:25:16 <cwickert> story teller I think
15:25:20 <gnokii> decause: sticks to izhar
15:25:27 * potty is leaving the room. Thank you for everything.
15:25:30 <decause> izhar = treasurer
15:25:32 <decause> potty++
15:25:34 <cwickert> right
15:25:37 <potty> decause++
15:25:39 <zodbot> potty: Karma for decause changed to 42 (for the f23 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:25:40 <potty> cwickert++
15:25:42 <gnokii> logistician looks like pjp ;)
15:25:43 <decause> gbraad = storyteller
15:25:45 <potty> gnokii++
15:25:49 <decause> .fas pjp
15:25:49 <zodbot> decause: pjp '' <pj.pandit@yahoo.co.in> - pjpedro 'PJ Pedro' <pjpedro@rogers.com> - sandeepj 'sandeepj' <sandeepjp22@gmail.com>
15:25:58 <decause> hrm
15:26:08 <gnokii> my gf said its half past 10 now she wants me to go to bet ;)
15:26:27 <decause> gnokii: which pjp?
15:26:36 <decause> then I'll stop asking questions
15:26:37 <gnokii> mom
15:27:01 <cwickert> ok gnokii, but please don't forget to update #389
15:27:12 <decause> gnokii++
15:27:40 <gnokii> decause: pjp@fedoraproject.org
15:27:47 <decause> gnokii: thanks
15:28:03 * cwickert will end the meeting in 3
15:28:05 <cwickert> 2
15:28:06 <cwickert> 1
15:28:07 <cwickert> #endmeeting