14:18:04 <potty> #startmeeting famsco 14:18:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep 21 14:18:04 2016 UTC. The chair is potty. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:18:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:18:04 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco' 14:18:09 <potty> #topic Roll Call 14:18:25 <potty> ping cwickert mailga giannisk tuanta lbazan gnokii 14:18:38 <potty> .hello potty 14:18:42 <zodbot> potty: potty 'Abdel G. Martínez L.' <abdel.g.martinez.l@gmail.com> 14:18:59 <potty> Welcome to FAmSco weekly meeting 14:19:08 <potty> ping bexelbie 14:19:10 * kushal is here. 14:19:29 <tuanta> .hello tuanta 14:19:29 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com> 14:21:08 <giannisk> .fas giannisk 14:21:09 <zodbot> giannisk: giannisk 'Giannis Konstantinidis' <giannis@konstantinidis.cc> 14:21:15 * giannisk waves at everyone 14:21:50 * potty waves 14:22:31 <bexelbie> .fas bex 14:22:33 <giannisk> How many are we, today? 14:22:33 <zodbot> bexelbie: ybexwqmxnx 'ybexwqmxnx yhdgb' <ybexwqmxnx@nowmymail.com> - bexhet '' <bexhet@hotmail.it> - lonelyibex 'fungo' <lonelyibex@gmail.com> - moko 'moko lee' <ibex@msn.cn> - sfarr01 'Steven Farr' <sfarr@bex.net> - tqtwr 'gsafd' <mesabexudi@top1mail.ru> - mcreps 'Merl Creps Jr' <merljr@bex.net> - tbex 'Tony Beckham' <t2yb5m@gmail.com> - efjiwmos 'takagiatuko' <bexroll@gmail.com> - makubex 'Bruno Lopes de Mello' (2 more messages) 14:22:35 <potty> #info Attendance: 3/7 14:22:46 <giannisk> potty: right 14:22:47 <potty> Plus other contributors 14:22:58 <kushal> bexelbie, should be .hellomynameis bex :) 14:22:59 <potty> Lets start 14:23:03 <bexelbie> .hello bex 14:23:04 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com> 14:23:10 <bexelbie> kushal, I know .. I mistype it constantly :( 14:23:37 * bexelbie really wants to meet ybexwqmxnx 14:24:24 <potty> First topic today will be FOSCo 14:24:46 <potty> #topic Transforming FAmSCo into FOSCo 14:24:56 <potty> .famsco 373 14:24:56 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/373 14:25:05 <gnokii> .fas gnokii 14:25:05 <zodbot> gnokii: gnokii 'Sirko Kemter' <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de> 14:25:30 <potty> bexelbie: do you have updates here? 14:25:57 <potty> mailga: same question 14:26:12 <bexelbie> so 14:26:17 <bexelbie> I didn't finish the English cleanup 14:26:20 <bexelbie> I am sorry 14:26:31 <bexelbie> the conference I was at on Sunday-Tuesday was more intense than expected 14:26:50 <bexelbie> I need to do a bit of wordsmithing as the proposal doesn't reflect mailga real desires ina few places 14:27:09 <potty> It is no problem. The important thing here is that the proposal is in progress. 14:27:11 <bexelbie> I also had dinner with cwickert last night and have a few points from him (in the ticket too) that may wish to be considered 14:27:16 <bexelbie> yes, it is 14:28:47 <potty> So, right now proposal is in progress. People can still share their feedback on the ticket and next week we can review it again? 14:28:54 <bexelbie> yes 14:29:04 <bexelbie> but it would probably be better if people got their input in ASAP 14:29:17 <bexelbie> I am traveling for personal reasons next week starting Friday night - so I need to get this done fast or push it a week 14:29:23 * giannisk is checking the famsco trac. 14:29:24 <bexelbie> I mean this week 14:29:34 <bexelbie> I will be gone until Wednesday without a PC :( 14:29:41 <gnokii> uuh 14:29:41 <bexelbie> sorry - just bad timing with a prearranged vacation 14:29:52 <potty> bexelbie: do you need extra help? I mean somebody help you out? 14:30:02 <gnokii> bexelbie: ouch 14:30:21 <bexelbie> I am enlisting cwickert for help with the ideas he presented in the ticket and over dinner 14:30:43 <bexelbie> as for the other, I think I can get it done by Friday when I leave - I just won't be able to be in the meeting on Wednesday as I'll be in a plane flying home 14:30:54 <bexelbie> But we should be able to get a ticket conversation started, I think 14:31:31 <potty> Ok 14:31:59 <bexelbie> note to self - give up ever having a vacation in septemeber 14:32:24 <potty> Do anyone else have any inputs on this topic? 14:32:53 <giannisk> potty: none at the moment; will try to add my thoughts on the ticker later this day 14:32:59 <giannisk> s/ticker/ticket 14:33:09 <potty> Thank you giannisk 14:34:38 <giannisk> potty: let's move on, shall we? :) 14:34:56 <potty> Yes 14:35:24 <giannisk> potty: I have one issue I'd like to bring up at the end of the meeting 14:36:35 <potty> #topic Nominating Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay as a mentor from India 14:36:47 <potty> .famsco 402 14:36:47 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/402 14:36:51 <potty> giannisk: ok 14:37:58 <potty> We have to vote on this 14:38:32 <potty> mailga, tuanta, gnokii, giannisk 14:38:45 <potty> AFAIK, gnokii voted +1 14:38:58 <potty> I will vote +1 as well 14:39:21 <tuanta> +1 from me too 14:39:22 <giannisk> kushal vouches for the nominee - i confirm the nomination 14:39:25 <giannisk> +1 14:39:50 <gnokii> you need my vote a second time? 14:39:53 <potty> Right now we have 3 +1 and 0 -1 14:39:58 <potty> Sorry 14:40:16 <giannisk> Also, according to the process: 14:40:17 <potty> 4 +1 and 0 -1 14:40:28 <giannisk> ""Regional Ambassador Mentors are a group of people - selected, proposed and appointed by people - not by a leveling system - based on trust (and a lot of soft facts). Prospective mentors are nominated by existing Mentors and confirmed by FAmSCo" 14:40:37 <giannisk> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor#Regional_Ambassador_Mentors 14:41:18 <potty> giannisk: we are aññ 14:41:23 <potty> all good then 14:41:35 <gnokii> ^^ 14:41:35 <giannisk> potty: yeap 14:42:01 <potty> #agreed Ticket 402 is approved 14:42:22 <giannisk> All: let's also post our confirmations at the ticket itself 14:42:50 <potty> I will post the results and link of this meeting in the trac ticket 14:43:29 <potty> Any extra inputs on this ticket? 14:44:25 <kushal> Thanks for the fast resolution. 14:44:38 <potty> you are welcome kushal 14:45:00 <gnokii> kushal: still waiting for the second ticket 14:45:03 <giannisk> kushal++ potty++ 14:45:18 <potty> do we have any other topics here? 14:45:34 <giannisk> potty: in general? yes, I have one 14:45:39 <kushal> gnokii, yup. 14:45:41 <potty> #chair giannisk 14:45:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: giannisk potty 14:45:45 <potty> set the topic 14:45:55 <potty> i will be away for 15 minutes :( 14:45:58 <giannisk> #topic FAmSCo status for lbazan 14:45:59 <kushal> I have point to ask (or should I do it as a ticket only)? 14:46:22 <gnokii> kushal: ask in open floor 14:46:56 <giannisk> So, folks, as you are all well aware lbazan has not been an active FAmSCo member for quite some time. 14:47:13 <giannisk> If my memory serves me correctly, he has never attended any IRC meeting. 14:47:22 <potty> only one meeting giannisk 14:47:26 <giannisk> And he has rarely posted on the mailing list or commented on a FAmSCo trac ticket. 14:47:29 <giannisk> potty: right 14:47:43 <giannisk> He never sends regrets or anything else at the mailing list. 14:47:59 <giannisk> He's completely absent and does not fulfill any FAmSCo-related duties. 14:48:16 <giannisk> Now, I don't wanna be the bad guy here, but I don't like the situation here. 14:48:22 <giannisk> And we need to solve this. 14:48:58 <potty> I will talk to lbazan 14:49:00 <giannisk> This is an elected position, if lbazan cannot show some kind of commitment, it might be better for him to resign. 14:49:09 <potty> FIll a ticket giannisk 14:49:17 <giannisk> potty: I will certainly do. 14:49:32 <potty> If he is not available to attend 14:49:37 <giannisk> This is quite serious and I'm surprised that none of us brought this up earlier. 14:49:47 <giannisk> (Including myself) 14:50:04 <giannisk> eof 14:50:08 <giannisk> Thoughts, comments? 14:50:33 <potty> If he will not be attending I will tell him to drop his role as Famsco 14:50:39 <potty> There should be no problems at all 14:50:43 <potty> Fill the ticket 14:50:45 <potty> I will do the laundry 14:50:47 <potty> EOF 14:50:55 <giannisk> potty: Sure, thanks 14:50:59 <potty> :) 14:51:01 <potty> Any other topics? 14:51:18 <giannisk> potty: kushal had something to be discussed during Open Floor 14:51:28 <potty> #topic Open Floor 14:51:58 <potty> kushal: go ahead 14:52:07 <kushal> So I can see people (from India) coming in the meeting, and claiming to be Ambassador. Where as their FAS info show as campus ambassador. 14:52:20 <kushal> I have no clue who they are. 14:52:54 <giannisk> Was the campus ambassadors program restarted? 14:53:14 <giannisk> Because, a few years ago, you had to be a fully-vetted ambassador in order to become a campus ambassador. 14:53:21 <gnokii> ^^ 14:53:24 <kushal> Wondering if FAMSCo has anything to say about this. 14:53:24 <kushal> This will confuse the community for sure. 14:53:49 * bexelbie wasn't even aware we had an official campus program 14:53:59 <giannisk> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Campus_Ambassadors 14:54:04 <gnokii> bexelbie: commops thing 14:54:47 <gnokii> for India its indeed a problem, they apply for that group the owner puts them in without questions and they think they are ambassador 14:54:53 <bexelbie> reads like you still have to be a member of the ambassadors program .. kushal do you have an example whose fas record we could look at? 14:55:04 <kushal> wait, looking 14:55:46 <giannisk> FYI: This initiative started several years ago, though never truly made any progress. 14:55:56 <giannisk> Now, AFAIK, CommOps wants to bring it back to life. 14:56:19 <giannisk> Not sure if they changed the structure or what - in the past you had to be an ambassador already in order to join. 14:56:55 <bexelbie> gnokii, nothing on that wiki indicates this is a commops project 14:56:58 <gnokii> .fasinfo phoenix1796 14:56:59 <bexelbie> it reads like an ambassadors project 14:56:59 <zodbot> gnokii: User: phoenix1796, Name: Abhishek Chopra, email: abhishek.chopra1796@gmail.com, Creation: 2016-05-15, IRC Nick: phoenix1796, Timezone: Asia/Kolkata, Locale: en, GPG key ID: None, Status: active 14:57:02 <zodbot> gnokii: Approved Groups: campusambassadors cla_done cla_fpca 14:57:15 <gnokii> bexelbie: look how old the pages are 14:57:15 <kushal> gnokii, thanks. 14:57:31 <bexelbie> this is the problem with the wiki - if the page isn't marked as old program or deleted ... 14:57:49 <giannisk> gnokii: Well, that particular person is not a member of the 'ambassadors' group, therefore is not an ambassador. 14:58:14 <kushal> giannisk, but already a campus ambassador, and then claiming to be ambassador in fedora apac meeting. 14:58:16 <bexelbie> who is approving entry to campusambassadors group? 14:58:23 <gnokii> giannisk: wow, you tell me something I did not realize 14:58:28 <giannisk> kushal: well yes, that's a problem indeed 14:58:40 <gnokii> bexelbie: several people 14:58:46 <giannisk> gnokii: see? I'm smart ;) 14:59:17 <kushal> bexelbie, https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/campusambassadors/*/sponsor is the list 14:59:33 <gnokii> in case of phoenix1796 the sponsor was jbwilia 15:01:07 * potty is away 15:01:23 <bexelbie> So when FAmSCo decided to discountinue the program, what should have been the process to close the group? 15:01:55 * kushal goes out 15:01:57 <giannisk> May I propose the following? A) Campus Ambassadors should not accept any new contributors at the FAS group at this time - until they figure out what the scope of their program is. B) It needs to be clearly communicated that all Campus Ambassadors who are not fully-vetted Ambassadors cannot call themselves as such at this point. 15:02:15 <giannisk> bexelbie: it was never decided to be discontinued in fact, it just started gathering dust. 15:02:30 <giannisk> bexelbie: now some CommOps folks want to bring it back to life 15:02:47 <bexelbie> Did they contact FAmSCo about that? 15:03:03 <giannisk> bexelbie: No, they did not. 15:03:07 <gnokii> bexelbie: commops contacts nobody they go just ahead 15:03:26 <bexelbie> If they didn't contact famsco how did they get permission to add people to the FAS group? 15:03:27 <giannisk> bexelbie: At least there has been no public communication towards FAmSCo so far, we have not been notified as a whole. 15:03:48 <gnokii> bexelbie: simple a group admin can make sponsors 15:04:03 <bexelbie> but all of the group admins should be ambassadors 15:04:07 <bexelbie> who would know the rules, right? 15:05:07 <bexelbie> so it sounds like there needs to be 1) confirmation of the idea that commops really wants to restart campus ambassadors in partnership with ambassadors (and the willingness of ambassadors to do it) and 2) and audit and clean up of hte campus ambassadors group that should have been done when ambassadors decided to halt the program (even if it was a slow halt) 15:06:41 <gnokii> to be honest campus ambassadors is a little bit unecessary like the description on the page you will get you blog added to the planet, hello the ambassadors have added it alread 15:06:47 <bexelbie> giannisk, I just saw your comment above - didn't mean to repeat it in different words 15:07:00 <giannisk> bexelbie: no worries 15:07:02 <bexelbie> gnokii, the page is out of date as you pointed out 15:07:14 <bexelbie> but I think the page's description is the smallest issue here 15:08:03 <gnokii> bexelbie: what I mean the group is obsolete in that way like the planet thing 15:08:05 <bexelbie> (related: is there a better way to query details about a FAS group? I'd love to figure out who is not also an ambassador and when those kinds of folks started getting added) 15:08:18 <giannisk> kushal: Would you like to open up a ticket on the FAmSCo trac? We will keep the discussion flowing and will also involve CommOps. 15:08:21 <bexelbie> gnokii, if famsco wants to completely disband the group - then take that action 15:08:46 <bexelbie> but worrying about planet access right now is ignoring the larger structural issue, imho 15:09:45 <bexelbie> especially because even I am allowed to put my blog in planet.fp.o :D 15:09:47 <giannisk> I don't think we should disband something which is currently being reformed by other contributors. It's just that these contributors need to notify FAmSCo and make sure that clear guidelines are set before accepting new people at the group.. 15:10:02 <gnokii> bexelbie: I just have the feeling some wanted to outreach more to campuses and thought well there is that group lets just use in instead of thinking is it the right way 15:10:10 <bexelbie> giannisk, so how about we start by opening communication with commops and clarifying their intentions 15:10:14 <bexelbie> we may not even know what they want 15:10:48 <giannisk> bexelbie: exactly, this is what I proposed earlier as well - I, or kushal, may open up a ticket, then we initiate the discussion. 15:10:49 <bexelbie> it may also be worthwhile to make sure that all fasgroups associated with famsco have clean sponsor and admin lists :) 15:11:01 * giannisk brb 15:11:19 <bexelbie> giannisk, you are right you proposed it .. I am not hearing everyone saying, "yes, let's do that" 15:11:25 <gnokii> bexelbie: that sounds like a plan 15:12:36 <bexelbie> are all of the administrators of the campusambassadors group ambassadors? 15:12:59 <gnokii> bexelbie: we would have to look to that 15:13:10 <bexelbie> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/campusambassadors/*/administrator?_csrf_token=4326ae62fc4ca33cc578550a6ee3a6199539b682 15:13:45 <gnokii> admins are all ambassadors 15:13:48 <giannisk> bexelbie: just checked all of them - yes, they are 15:14:02 <bexelbie> and they are active so they can be expected to know what the situation is? 15:14:12 * bexelbie doesn't know how to tell if someone is active or not with this group 15:14:15 <gnokii> in case of nb yes 15:14:38 <gnokii> biertie wasnt seen some years and markdude, works more periodically 15:14:46 <giannisk> bexelbie: I believe most of them should still be active 15:14:52 <bexelbie> same with the sponsors? 15:15:00 <gnokii> right now he seems to be in the period doing something else 15:15:17 <nb> jo 15:15:18 <nb> hi 15:15:24 <giannisk> bexelbie: Oh, hold on. I meant most of the sponsors are active. Not the members. Same with their ambassadors status. 15:15:40 <bexelbie> I was asking about the group admins as well giannisk 15:16:13 <gnokii> bexelbie: they are all ambassadors as well 15:16:36 <nb> At least originally, FAmSCo did not run campusambassadors, as far as i understand 15:16:59 <bexelbie> nb, who did? does? 15:17:25 <nb> from what I have been told, the campusambassadors admins 15:17:27 * giannisk needs to leave in a few. 15:17:29 <nb> used to 15:17:42 * nb searches for the meeting log where famsco talked about it before 15:17:56 <potty> people 15:17:57 <bexelbie> a quick look seems to indicate there are probably only 4 users who were incorrectly added 15:18:02 <potty> may i close the meeting? 15:18:03 <nb> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/famsco/2010-April/000157.html 15:18:14 <potty> or are we still in the meeting? 15:18:29 <nb> bexelbie, incorrectly by what definition? 15:18:39 <bexelbie> nb, they aren't ambassadors as required by the wiki definition 15:18:49 <nb> bexelbie, the wiki needs to be updated, we removed that requirement 15:18:49 <bexelbie> I also suggest that you all are allowed to revisit a 2010 decision 15:18:56 <bexelbie> nb, when? 15:19:11 <nb> bexelbie, a few months ago when we started adding people again 15:19:18 <bexelbie> as it sounds like there is now confusion as people are claiming to be ambassadors when they aren't which is upsetting ambassasdors 15:19:27 <nb> oh 15:19:38 <nb> maybe we need to make it more clear that campusambassador != ambassador 15:19:40 <bexelbie> and it sounds like the restart was never communicated outward 15:19:44 <gnokii> bexelbie: its not about upsetting 15:19:52 <bexelbie> where is the blog or mag article that says the group is restarted? 15:20:11 <bexelbie> also the mailing list for the group is inactive 15:20:44 <gnokii> just rename the group to campusinitiative 15:21:20 <nb> it was discussed at least in some of the regional meetings, i thought it was mentioned in at least one famsco meeting 15:21:52 <bexelbie> nb but how does the project as a whole know? 15:22:01 <nb> bexelbie, it hasn't really been kicked off yet 15:22:09 <nb> jflory7, ping 15:22:09 <zodbot> nb: Ping with data, please: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/No_naked_pings 15:22:19 <nb> jflory7, would be good if you were here to talk since you are kind of spearheading this 15:22:21 <bexelbie> apparently it is active enough that people in India are already showing up in meetings saying they're ambassadors 15:23:23 <bexelbie> sounds like this should move as giannisk has suggested to a ticket 15:23:29 <bexelbie> just offering some questions that should be explored 15:23:37 <bexelbie> I am happy to attend a meeting (if I am available) if it would help 15:23:55 <nb> for now, i will add the ambassadors requirement back 15:24:02 <nb> until there is more discussion 15:24:04 <nb> if that sounds ok 15:24:51 <bexelbie> you have that power alone nb? 15:25:50 <bexelbie> but, given the communication status, questions raised, and the wiki page, it sounds like the non-ambassadors need to be spoken too and considered and that the program should stop until it is clear what is going on 15:26:08 * nb is an admin, i was going to do it as an interim measure until there is more discussion about if we want it to be open to non-ambassadors 15:26:15 * nb was not going to remove anyone from the group 15:26:52 <bexelbie> when does this group meet nb? There doesn't seem to be a fedocal for them 15:26:54 <nb> bexelbie, does that sound ok? I have to leave now, work meeting 15:26:58 <nb> bexelbie, no scheduled meetings 15:27:36 <gnokii> bexelbie: its more an administrative group 15:28:00 <bexelbie> I think you should do that nb 15:28:03 <nb> bexelbie, ok 15:28:09 <bexelbie> I think this "administrative" group needs to think about how it is supposed to work 15:28:14 <bexelbie> as it is far from transparent from where I sit 15:28:17 <nb> bexelbie, done 15:28:22 * nb will read the log, I have to leave now 15:28:25 <bexelbie> how did you do it nb? 15:28:51 <nb> bexelbie, FAS 15:28:59 <nb> edit the group and put the prerequisite back 15:29:08 * nb didn't remove any existing non-ambassador members 15:29:33 <bexelbie> ahh 15:29:39 <gnokii> ok, lets get some action items for that 15:30:03 <gnokii> #action kushal make the ticket in famsco trac describe the problem 15:30:55 <gnokii> #action bexelbie talk with commops what they want to achieve with reanimating campusambassadors 15:31:30 <gnokii> #action all continue discussion in the ticket of kushal 15:31:38 <gnokii> ok that way? 15:32:12 <gnokii> anything else or can we close? 15:33:45 * bexelbie has nothing to raise in open session 15:33:51 <bexelbie> open table 15:34:14 <gnokii> bexelbie: when you for holiday over weekend until wednesday, you would have no time on monday to? 15:34:42 <bexelbie> I will be without a PC from Saturday to Wednesday night 15:34:53 <bexelbie> gnokii, is this re: fudcon APAC? 15:34:59 * giannisk is out, goodbye everyone. 15:35:02 <gnokii> bexelbie: yes 15:35:32 <bexelbie> gnokii, I don't recall us having a meeting scheduled for monday, did I forget one? 15:36:10 <gnokii> bexelbie: idea was 2pm you timezone 15:37:48 <bexelbie> crap 15:37:50 <bexelbie> :) 15:38:15 <bexelbie> ok, I didn't put it on my calendar if we did pick a date 15:38:31 <bexelbie> Monday at 2pm my time will not work because I will be in Italy without a PC and possibly eating cheese and drinking wine :P 15:38:49 <gnokii> bexelbie: its ok 15:38:50 <gnokii> i will close the meeting now 15:38:50 <gnokii> #endmeeting 15:39:01 <bexelbie> Friday would work, but I think that will destroy the opps for APAC as that is your Saturday, I think 15:39:09 <potty> thank you gnokii 15:39:13 <bexelbie> Thursday at another time 15:39:23 <gnokii> mmh, looks I am not chairing potty close it 15:39:28 <bexelbie> Wednesday, if I have to after 9pm my time 15:39:39 <potty> #endmeeting