15:02:06 <robyduck> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2017-02-01
15:02:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb  1 15:02:06 2017 UTC.  The chair is robyduck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:06 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2017-02-01'
15:02:14 <robyduck> #meetingname famsco
15:02:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
15:02:26 <robyduck> #topic Roll Call
15:02:29 <fredlima> .fas fredlima
15:02:29 <zodbot> fredlima: fredlima 'Frederico Henrique Gonçalves Lima' <fred@fredericolima.com.br>
15:02:45 <robyduck> .hello robyduck
15:02:46 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
15:03:08 <jonatoni> .hello jonatoni
15:03:09 <zodbot> jonatoni: jonatoni 'Jona Azizaj' <jonaazizaj@gmail.com>
15:03:31 <mailga> .hello mailga
15:03:32 <zodbot> mailga: mailga 'Gabriele Trombini' <g.trombini@gmail.com>
15:04:35 <robyduck> bexelbie is travelling, so he will not be around today
15:04:43 <giannisk> .fas giannisk
15:04:43 <zodbot> giannisk: giannisk 'Giannis Konstantinidis' <giannis@konstantinidis.cc>
15:04:51 <Kohane> hi
15:04:58 <Kohane> .fas lailah
15:05:00 <zodbot> Kohane: lailah 'Sylvia Sánchez' <BHKohane@gmail.com>
15:05:34 <robyduck> hi all, seems just itamar is missing today, or?
15:07:23 <fredlima> I talked to him today, he didn't told he will not coming
15:07:36 <robyduck> ok, let's start
15:07:41 <robyduck> thank you fredlima
15:07:47 <fredlima> :-)
15:07:50 <Kohane> Hopefully, he'll join lateron.
15:07:58 <Kohane> later on*
15:08:00 <Kohane> Sorry
15:08:10 <robyduck> so, there was a bit of 'confusion' the last days, and I tried to put them a bit in order yesterday
15:08:13 <fredlima> Kohane: probably
15:08:25 <fredlima> robyduck: yes, thanks for that
15:08:43 <robyduck> Itamar, Fred: I understand you want to be active and do many things, but please, we need to work together and with criteria
15:08:56 <fredlima> robyduck: agreed
15:09:05 <robyduck> you, and we all, represent more than 700 ambassadors all over the world, not just the ones from your country. And all ambassadors out there deserve our respect. I do not accept any offensive words towards anyone, whatever the circumstance is.
15:09:37 <robyduck> if you have topic we should discuss, open a simple ticket and let's discuss it. If we can improve things, let's fix them, if things are working as they are but in some part of the world they are misunderstood, we need to fix that too. But writing tons of tickets and private mails only creates confusion.
15:10:17 <robyduck> let's keep calm and do things step by step, we have to discuss stuff and it's good we are from different places, although I have been twice to LATAM FUDCons and know some of your discussions and problems. But it's the same also for APAC, which have different problems.
15:10:31 <robyduck> I hope you don't get my introduction today wrong, it is aimed to improve comunication and should avoid to waste time.
15:10:39 <robyduck> EOF
15:11:04 <fredlima> robyduck: this is an old problem before I was in Fedora Project. But this is reflecting now.
15:11:12 <robyduck> If you want to add something or say to me I'm totally wrong please do, I like a transparent discussion on a public basis ;)
15:11:29 <Kohane> robyduck: I totally agree with you.
15:11:30 <robyduck> fredlima: ok fine, then let's analyze it and try to fix it
15:12:06 <robyduck> ok then let's start definitely
15:12:19 <fredlima> robyduck: Myself, I tried to be an ambassador, I attended events with other ambassadors here in Brazil. But I'm not an ambassador yet. Because the mentor disappeared.
15:12:40 <fredlima> robyduck: and we have others in the same sittuation
15:13:18 <robyduck> fredlima: you can choose another one, it is just not true the old mentor needs to tell you who will be your new mentor. It's up to the mentoree.
15:13:29 * potty is around
15:13:37 <villadalmine> .fas villadalmine
15:13:41 <zodbot> villadalmine: villadalmine 'Rino Rondan' <villadalmine@gmail.com>
15:13:51 <Kohane> hi Rino!
15:13:57 <villadalmine> hi  guys!
15:14:02 <robyduck> and if you don't find one in your region, then file a ticket, in the meanwhile choose another one
15:14:34 <gnokii> interesting how a not ambassador becomes member of famsco
15:14:36 <robyduck> Hi villadalmine and potty
15:14:40 <fredlima> robyduck: I see. And I will. but there are other brazilians that understand english and/or spanish less than me. And they will need an brazilian mentor.
15:15:14 <potty> robyduck: o/
15:15:20 <villadalmine> robyduck:  :)
15:15:39 <Kohane> Yes, the problem still remains. Not everyone in LATAM understands Portuguese although I think most of contributors understand English.
15:15:43 <robyduck> fredlima: that's another thing, but Fedora is english and we shoud try to use it. Same is for APAC people
15:16:12 <robyduck> but we are getting off topic here now
15:16:21 <fredlima> robyduck: yes, this is true. we will discuss this later
15:16:34 <robyduck> we can discuss it when we get to it
15:16:38 <robyduck> ok fine
15:16:46 <fredlima> robyduck: ok. agreed.
15:16:48 <robyduck> #topic Plans to migrate the FAmSCo Trac to pagure (deadline february 28th)
15:17:22 <robyduck> ok, so we psoponed the decision here, but we have not much time left
15:17:37 <Kohane> Yes...
15:17:53 <robyduck> #info Last time the proposal was to close the old trac and start a new one, due to impossibility of keeping tickets per FAS account
15:18:19 <robyduck> linuxmodder: are you around?
15:18:33 <robyduck> I have anothe roption, but I'mm not sure if this is doable
15:19:01 <robyduck> the pagure-importer permits a migration with a --private attribute, means all tickets will be migrated as private tickets
15:19:23 <robyduck> I don't know if those tickets can be viewed by a group afterwards
15:19:58 <robyduck> the only option is to make a testing migration to the staging instance of pagure.io
15:20:15 <giannisk> How did the rest regional communities migrate to pagure? What migration method did they use?
15:20:29 <robyduck> we could test it, create a FAmSCo group and see if we all can access them as 'watchers'
15:20:54 <robyduck> giannisk: I believe they don't have the issue of the FAmSCo trac
15:21:20 <Kohane> giannisk: jflory helped to migrated, he may know
15:22:15 <jonatoni> jflory7 had some comments about this migration, and maybe he can help us to do it
15:22:36 <Kohane> robyduck: I think making a small test with a famsco group as you suggest is a good idea. If it doesn't work we loss nothing.
15:22:42 <giannisk> robyduck, Kohane: I see
15:22:51 <robyduck> giannisk: the problem with the FAmSCo trac, but also with the EMEA swag trac is, we have tickets per FAS account, and all tickets are set as private, unless you have a FAS account to view them
15:22:52 <giannisk> jflory7 will be at FOSDEM, I can ask him
15:22:56 <fredlima> +1 to test
15:23:14 <robyduck> giannisk: are you going to FOSDEM?
15:23:19 <giannisk> robyduck: yes
15:23:24 <robyduck> cool, the please do
15:23:29 * giannisk nods
15:23:56 <robyduck> in the meanwhile I can make a test migration and make you all admins, in order to check it out, even with jflory7
15:24:41 <giannisk> #action giannisk consult with jflory7 regarding FAmSCo's migration from trac to pagure
15:24:50 <robyduck> giannisk: the main problem we have is the sensistive data in specific tickets
15:25:07 <robyduck> if we do a migration like all other, these tickets get publicly available to everyone
15:25:48 <robyduck> #chair giannisk fredlima mailga jonatoni Kohane
15:25:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kohane fredlima giannisk jonatoni mailga robyduck
15:26:05 <robyduck> sorry, forgot that
15:26:17 <Kohane> what thing, robyduck?
15:26:24 <giannisk> giannisk: I see. But didn't other regional community trac instances contain personal data as well?
15:26:37 <giannisk> s/giannisk/robyduck
15:26:42 <robyduck> #action robyduck to make a test migration to the pagure staging instance with private attribute
15:26:58 <robyduck> giannisk: probably yes
15:27:08 <Kohane> giannisk: I think they might have.
15:27:14 <fredlima> it will be perfect if we can create a group with everyone that have an fas on it, and make the imported tickets public to them
15:27:30 <robyduck> fredlima: waht do you mean?
15:27:47 <robyduck> we cannot create a group with all FAS accounts
15:28:10 <fredlima> or at least with all ambassadors and famsco members
15:28:36 <fredlima> and make the imported tickets public to them
15:28:43 <Kohane> I think that group with famsco members is enough
15:29:31 <robyduck> fredlima: you are talking about 700 people
15:30:04 <robyduck> and every time we have a new ambassador we need to add him by hand?
15:30:13 <robyduck> that's not doable
15:30:23 <fredlima> fedmsg is there for this
15:30:34 <fredlima> the badges aren't giving by hand
15:30:52 <robyduck> but pagure doesn't talk to FAS
15:31:09 <robyduck> it has it's own DB
15:31:17 <fredlima> robyduck: we will import the tickets to make them public only for 7 poeplo?
15:31:47 <fredlima> robyduck: zanata too, but infrastructure team will make zanata comunicate with fedmsg
15:31:48 <Kohane> Or just leave it and start over
15:31:54 <robyduck> fredlima: mainly yes. COnsider we are speaking about closed tickets
15:32:05 * giannisk notices we're halfway through the meetings.
15:32:22 <giannisk> s/meetings/meeting
15:32:53 * mailga thinks we're running toward something complicated and unuseful. I can't find any reason to not make public only the tickets we want.
15:33:07 <robyduck> let's try that way for this week, and then make a decision
15:33:22 <fredlima> robyduck: ok.
15:33:24 <giannisk> robyduck: +1
15:33:47 <robyduck> mailga: we can make them public later, sure, but who want to do that? We have 400 tickets
15:34:26 <mailga> robyduck: closed tickets are closed, nothing more and nothing less.
15:34:57 <robyduck> yes, but migration to get them all, even if closed, even if invalid
15:35:17 <robyduck> s/migration/migration is meant
15:35:45 <robyduck> #topic Storyteller
15:35:54 <robyduck> This is related to ticket 409
15:35:59 <robyduck> .famsco 409
15:36:00 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/409
15:36:21 <robyduck> I see two topics here.
15:36:36 <robyduck> 1) We need to define better what a storyteller is
15:36:52 <robyduck> 2) jflory7 wants to be storyteller for EMEA
15:37:18 <robyduck> IMHO #2 is region related, we should leave that to the region
15:37:39 <giannisk> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Budget.next#Regional_Delegates
15:37:58 <giannisk> robyduck: +1 regarding #2, this can be brought up during the next EMEA ambassadors meeting
15:38:00 <robyduck> While we should really define, with bexelbie, define this important rule in the budget process
15:38:43 <robyduck> thanks giannisk
15:39:05 <robyduck> yeah, there is not much actually
15:39:15 <robyduck> #info The Storytelling Delegate will be accountable for Regional Reports. They don't necessarily have to write all the original content, they just need to be accountable for ensuring content makes it out onto our channels.
15:40:02 <robyduck> so this means anything, but is rather clear if you look it from a budgeting POV
15:40:23 <Kohane> Okay, so EMEA will discuss and decide in the meeting whether we want Justin be the Storyteller or not. Am I correct?
15:40:49 <robyduck> Kohane: EMEA should also ask what's up with the actual storyteller
15:41:32 <Kohane> Yes, you're right
15:41:41 <robyduck> #link https://budget.fedoraproject.org/#delegates
15:41:53 <giannisk> robyduck: To the best of my knowledge, the actual storyteller doesn't respond.
15:42:03 <Kohane> I don't know edgates
15:42:06 <robyduck> oh fine :S
15:42:18 <mailga> robyduck: afaik the storyteller tasks are so important that I think FCAIC should explain very well all the points. It can't be difinied in two or three row in the wiki.
15:42:19 <Kohane> His name sounds familiar to me, but very vaguely familiar
15:42:40 <Kohane> FCAIC?
15:43:01 <fredlima> Kohane: Fedora Community Action and Impact Coordinator
15:43:10 <giannisk> Kohane: bex :)
15:43:10 <robyduck> budget.next is now getting into its second FY, and the Council needs much better event reports if we want to get more budget
15:43:24 <mailga> aka bexelbie at the moment.
15:43:29 <fredlima> Kohane: Brian Exelbierd, bexelbie
15:44:17 <Kohane> Ah, good. I know Bex
15:44:38 <robyduck> the storyteller has the important rule to make sure all event owners make detailled reports and he should take them to bex
15:44:50 <robyduck> Kohane: is this important now?
15:45:05 <robyduck> what's up with FCAIC?
15:45:30 <Kohane> No, no, just that now I know what and who is FCAIC
15:45:37 <fredlima> robyduck: she didn't know what is FCAIC.
15:45:54 <Kohane> Otherwise I was going to need a fast Google search to understand the dialogue.,
15:46:30 <robyduck> ok
15:47:00 <robyduck> when you to the bottom of the https://budget.fedoraproject.org/ website
15:47:37 <Kohane> Yes?
15:47:42 <robyduck> you will find a lot of points which are a "nice to have" when owners write event reports for the storyteller/budget
15:48:10 <mailga> for the ones still don't know who is the FCAIC and which responsabilities he has has https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Community_Leader
15:48:40 <robyduck> unfortunately we are lacking event reports totally, not only inaccurate
15:50:15 <robyduck> so, before people nominate themself for the storyteller role, we need to define all that and write it down on the wiki or wherever bexelbie wants to have it
15:50:42 <Kohane> robyduck: this is only for those who organise or is it for those who attend and ask reimbursement too?
15:50:57 <Kohane> robyduck: agree
15:51:03 <robyduck> just wanted to give you some background about what we expect from a storyteller
15:51:14 <robyduck> but please, any ideas here are welcome
15:51:44 <robyduck> Kohane: no, only for those who organize, you have no data as attendee to make other reports
15:52:24 <gnokii> robyduck: there are other things more important as noting exactly that down as more define clear the data which are needed to make their job easier, its an job who means you have to kick a lot of asses
15:53:19 <Kohane> robyduck: thanks for the explanation
15:53:27 <mailga> gnokii: +1 (also get a lot of kicks)
15:54:36 <robyduck> question: should the storyteller report to FAmSCo/FOSCo, as partially responsible for budgeting requests, or directly to FCAIC?
15:55:35 <Kohane> I think it would make sense to report to famsco/fosco too.
15:55:48 <fredlima> Kohane: I think the same.
15:56:30 <robyduck> the storyteller should have one POC, not more
15:56:30 <mailga> robyduck: no, maybe to the treasurer that is not our business.
15:57:06 <robyduck> mailga: the treasurer is not involved in that, he just takes care about the money spent and left
15:57:55 <robyduck> but as FAmSCo we approve events over 499$, so that would make sense to me, but it's just an idea I want to put on the table
15:58:24 <gnokii> robyduck: nope
15:58:55 <mailga> robyduck: I know, but the storyteller should validate the events, so if he don't have to reach the FCAIC the other who "speaks" about money is the treasure. Or FCAIC or treasuser, who reports to FCAIC. Non other bodies in the middle.
15:59:26 <gnokii> famsco approves it when it is not in the budget plan, there are several events where is spent more as that and it ends not up in famsco as you had to approve the plan anyway :)
15:59:58 <robyduck> yes, and?
16:00:21 <robyduck> the 499$ rule still exists
16:00:34 <gnokii> means you have not to decide each ticket which is over 499$
16:01:16 <robyduck> gnokii: did I say that?
16:01:32 <robyduck> please do not make your points on anything
16:01:42 <robyduck> we are out of time for today
16:01:47 <fredlima> people, I need to have lunch
16:02:05 <robyduck> any action to make here? we need to open a ticket in the budget trac
16:02:58 <Kohane> To me it should be:  1) let's define clearly what's the Storyteller role is  2) Storyteller should report to famsco/fosco as well
16:03:12 <fredlima> Kohane: +1
16:03:21 <robyduck> #action robyduck opens a dtoryteller ticket in the budget trac to start a discussion with bexelbie - to continue next time
16:03:41 <robyduck> I'll add that as point in the ticket
16:03:47 <robyduck> anything else?
16:04:07 <robyduck> #topic Open Floor
16:04:34 <robyduck> ok then, closing for today, thanks all for coming!
16:04:44 <robyduck> #endmeeting