2025-01-28 15:00:43 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !startmeeting fedora_bootc_initiative
2025-01-28 15:00:48 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-01-28 15:00:43 UTC
2025-01-28 15:00:48 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_bootc_initiative'
2025-01-28 15:01:19 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-28 15:01:30 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !topic roll call
2025-01-28 15:01:43 <@hricky:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-28 15:01:55 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his
2025-01-28 15:01:56 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his
2025-01-28 15:02:02 <@rsturla:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-28 15:02:03 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (rsturla)
2025-01-28 15:02:11 <@jmarrero:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-28 15:02:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Joseph Marrero (jmarrero)
2025-01-28 15:02:18 <@pwhalen:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-28 15:02:19 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Paul Whalen (pwhalen)
2025-01-28 15:02:41 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !hi jasonbrooks
2025-01-28 15:02:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jason Brooks (jasonbrooks) - he / him / his
2025-01-28 15:02:55 <@siosm:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-28 15:02:58 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Timothée Ravier (siosm) - he / him / his
2025-01-28 15:03:33 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-28 15:03:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (jlebon)
2025-01-28 15:03:52 <@jeckersb:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-28 15:03:53 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Eckersberg (jeckersb)
2025-01-28 15:04:46 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !hi
2025-01-28 15:04:48 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jean-Baptiste Trystram (jbtrystram) - he / him / his
2025-01-28 15:04:55 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !topic Action items from last meeting
2025-01-28 15:05:44 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> I think there was only one action item, which was mine, which was to file an issue talking about the question of what this initiative might become, where to continue the work, once it has run its course, in May.
2025-01-28 15:06:01 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> I haven't done that yet
2025-01-28 15:06:19 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !action jbrooks to write issue about future of this initiative
2025-01-28 15:06:51 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Are there other topics that folks here want to discuss?
2025-01-28 15:07:22 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think last time we said we would discuss one issue further.. let me grab the link
2025-01-28 15:07:50 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Right, Colin's container native builds issue
2025-01-28 15:07:58 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !link https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/32
2025-01-28 15:08:23 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !topic Supportable customizable base images
2025-01-28 15:08:47 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> I think you were going to ponder that further, right, Dusty?
2025-01-28 15:09:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> ahh yes, i missed the convo around that ticket last week
2025-01-28 15:09:15 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> We discussed this in the FCOS community last week: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1861#issuecomment-2608134063
2025-01-28 15:09:33 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> AGREED: FCOS is generally on board with changing FCOS builds to use podman
2025-01-28 15:09:33 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> ```
2025-01-28 15:09:33 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> ```
2025-01-28 15:09:33 <@dustymabe:matrix.org>                 build with multi-stage builds in the future. (@dustymabe:matrix.org, 17:30:05)
2025-01-28 15:10:19 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Cool, is there a game plan for making that switch?
2025-01-28 15:10:42 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> As mentioned in our ticket - there is still some nuance on whether we go directly to a derived build or we continue to build from scratch esssentially 
2025-01-28 15:12:05 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jason Brooks: FCOS rawhide today is already inheriting from bootc base-images repo. I think we could start experimenting there. Jonathan Lebon would know more about any potential blockers 
2025-01-28 15:12:13 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> I'm curious about the "look like a base image" comment in there
2025-01-28 15:12:20 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i'm going to prototype building FCOS as a derived container using the recent work that landed in rpm-ostree
2025-01-28 15:12:26 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Does fcos rawhide derive from tier-x?
2025-01-28 15:12:44 <@jlebon:fedora.im> "inherit" would be a better word
2025-01-28 15:12:58 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we inherit manifest definitions, but otherwise build from scratch
2025-01-28 15:13:39 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Ah, ok, I see vs derive, and does that relate to this comment about more efficient images?
2025-01-28 15:14:12 <@jmarrero:matrix.org> Does that change with the effort we have on the custom base images, a lot of the manifests are being reworked here:  https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/base-images/-/tree/wip-baseimage-rework?ref_type=heads
2025-01-28 15:14:28 <@jmarrero:matrix.org> Does that change with the effort we have on the custom base images?, a lot of the manifests are being reworked here:  https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/base-images/-/tree/wip-baseimage-rework?ref\_type=heads
2025-01-28 15:14:39 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yeah exactly. doing a "simple derive" where we just `RUN dnf install -y big list of packages` would give suboptimal results
2025-01-28 15:15:06 <@rsturla:fedora.im> From an end-user perspective, doing this is far more simple than forcing people to deal with git submodules
2025-01-28 15:15:06 <@rsturla:fedora.im> I've been playing around with the new build-chunked-oci, and while I've not (yet) been able to make it work, I do really like the flow of adding 10ish lines to the bottom of a Containerfile and forgetting about it.  
2025-01-28 15:15:57 <@rsturla:fedora.im> From an ~~end-user~~ builder/developer's perspective, doing this is far more simple than forcing people to deal with git submodules
2025-01-28 15:15:57 <@rsturla:fedora.im> I've been playing around with the new build-chunked-oci, and while I've not (yet) been able to make it work, I do really like the flow of adding 10ish lines to the bottom of a Containerfile and forgetting about it.  
2025-01-28 15:16:07 <@jlebon:fedora.im> jmarrero: i haven't looked at that work closely yet
2025-01-28 15:16:52 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !link https://github.com/coreos/rpm-ostree/issues/5221
2025-01-28 15:19:21 <@jlebon:fedora.im> Robert Sturla: yeah, to be clear, the git submodule approach in FCOS at least was never meant to be permanent. but it's a good preparatory step
2025-01-28 15:19:32 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Is there more to discuss on this? I suppose it'd be good to have Colin Walters 
2025-01-28 15:19:33 <@jmarrero:matrix.org> I think that re-work is a big part of the effort in the base images MR to make the build more container native not just for bootc but also for others that want to have custom base images and hopefully provide a base(base) image others can easily start with and then just rechunk at the end.
2025-01-28 15:20:07 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Are there any blockers in fedora infra, like, we don't need konflux for this, do we?
2025-01-28 15:20:44 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jason Brooks: FCOS specifically doesn't need konflux because we already know how to do container builds across architectures 
2025-01-28 15:20:59 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> other variants/editions might need it? 
2025-01-28 15:21:18 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jason Brooks: FCOS specifically doesn't need konflux because we already know how to do container builds across architectures in our existing pipeline
2025-01-28 15:21:25 <@jlebon:fedora.im> dustymabe: though eventually we do build FCOS in Konflux as well. though yeah, we're not blocked by it
2025-01-28 15:22:05 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2025-01-28 15:22:05 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: I can't remember -- would this change require `podman build` running as `root` ? right now our container builds in FCOS are done as a normal user
2025-01-28 15:22:05 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think I did a bootc build recently as a normal user 
2025-01-28 15:22:53 <@jlebon:fedora.im> Jason Brooks: it's the overall mechanisms currently used to build the base images. there's ongoing work to stand that up in the Fedora Konflux instance, so it should fit in with that
2025-01-28 15:23:03 <@jlebon:fedora.im> dustymabe: it does not
2025-01-28 15:23:43 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Any action items related to this?
2025-01-28 15:23:48 <@jlebon:fedora.im> that said, i usually use at least `--security-opt label=disable` so i don't have to relabel the contextdir
2025-01-28 15:24:33 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: would that also mean we could get away from using supermin for unpriv builds in openshift ?
2025-01-28 15:24:56 <@jlebon:fedora.im> Jason Brooks:  maybe not for now? i think as FCOS and others explore that new workflow, gaps will emerge
2025-01-28 15:24:58 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I guess that also depends on running podman itself in openshift
2025-01-28 15:25:09 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> anyway - this is off topic - we can move on
2025-01-28 15:25:23 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !topic Next Meeting
2025-01-28 15:25:35 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> What should we discuss next time? 
2025-01-28 15:25:43 <@jlebon:fedora.im> dustymabe: yeah, that won't work with the default restricted SCC i think
2025-01-28 15:25:56 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> I may not be here, I'm going to the fedora council hackfest next week
2025-01-28 15:27:31 <@jlebon:fedora.im> Jason Brooks: maybe the base-images rework that joseph pointed to earlier
2025-01-28 15:27:33 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Well, maybe I'll bug Colin in the main room to come up w/ a topic 🙂
2025-01-28 15:27:52 <@jlebon:fedora.im> assuming Colin is present
2025-01-28 15:28:10 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> I'll poke him after the meeting
2025-01-28 15:28:30 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> All right, should we wrap it up?
2025-01-28 15:29:19 <@siosm:matrix.org> we could also talk about sysexts at some point :)
2025-01-28 15:29:54 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Yeah, that's an interesting one, I haven't even tried it yet
2025-01-28 15:30:12 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> yeah. there a few use cases from the FCOS side we need to discuss I think - i.e. features in bootc we want to see 
2025-01-28 15:31:06 <@rsturla:fedora.im> I added a comment on an existing issue RE sysexts and generic overlays inbootc, but I'm not too sure if it belongs there or a separate issue
2025-01-28 15:31:06 <@rsturla:fedora.im> https://github.com/containers/bootc/issues/7#issuecomment-2591390476
2025-01-28 15:31:25 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> (like Jason Brooks I'll be away next week, doing training) 
2025-01-28 15:32:04 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Ok, I'm wrapping it up
2025-01-28 15:32:11 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !endmeeting