2025-06-03 15:01:02 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !startmeeting fedora_bootc_initiative
2025-06-03 15:01:05 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-06-03 15:01:02 UTC
2025-06-03 15:01:05 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_bootc_initiative'
2025-06-03 15:01:08 <@walters:fedora.im> .hi
2025-06-03 15:01:09 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !topic roll call
2025-06-03 15:01:22 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !hi jasonbrooks
2025-06-03 15:01:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jason Brooks (jasonbrooks) - he / him / his
2025-06-03 15:01:29 <@jeckersb:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-03 15:01:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Eckersberg (jeckersb)
2025-06-03 15:01:33 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-03 15:01:37 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (jlebon)
2025-06-03 15:01:44 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> !hi
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2025-06-03 15:02:38 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> nimbinatuszodbot tries to associate your matrix handle w/ your fas id
2025-06-03 15:03:33 <@nimbinatus:matrix.org> I'm reading about it now; no worries
2025-06-03 15:03:48 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> How's everyone doing? Who has topics to discuss? :)
2025-06-03 15:05:01 <@walters:fedora.im> One thing that might be good is to write up features targeted for the fedora 43 timeframe
2025-06-03 15:05:17 <@rsturla:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-03 15:05:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (rsturla)
2025-06-03 15:05:21 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !topic features for fedora 43
2025-06-03 15:06:06 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Colin WaltersDo we have a start on this list?
2025-06-03 15:06:19 <@walters:fedora.im> One thing we're actively working on is https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1350
2025-06-03 15:07:15 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> !hi
2025-06-03 15:07:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Sean Thrailkill (snthrailkill)
2025-06-03 15:07:20 <@walters:fedora.im> Also it's really likely that we end up with some improvements to the rechunker
2025-06-03 15:08:32 <@jlebon:fedora.im> could add https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1861 as well (which i've just retitled)
2025-06-03 15:09:54 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Curious - do you have a rough estimate for the Composefs backend implementation?  I appreciate it likely won't be considered "stable" for quite some time, but I'm just curious :) 
2025-06-03 15:09:56 <@walters:fedora.im> Yeah, it's not a directly user-visible thing but should produce nice synergy
2025-06-03 15:10:03 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Curious - do you have a rough estimate for the Composefs backend implementation?  I appreciate it likely won't be considered "stable" for quite some time, but I'm just interested :) 
2025-06-03 15:11:40 <@walters:fedora.im> Robert Sturla: We'll keep https://github.com/bootc-dev/bootc/issues/1190 updated but the main person working on it is/was out, hope to continue momentum though
2025-06-03 15:13:35 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Do we have prospects for the atomic desktops to be fedora-bootc based in f43?
2025-06-03 15:13:39 <@walters:fedora.im> The other main thing top of mind for me is https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/2 which I think we may have a new person joining to work on, I'll try to ensure that's the case and have them update there
2025-06-03 15:14:22 <@walters:fedora.im> Jason Brooks: I think the canonical tracker is https://gitlab.com/fedora/ostree/sig/-/issues/26
2025-06-03 15:14:53 <@walters:fedora.im> Though it gets nuanced, there's deriving on the build side (like FCOS is) and that's mixed in with some client work
2025-06-03 15:15:21 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Is there anything stopping Atomic Desktops for example, from switching over to being fedora-bootc based, while still relying on rpm-ostree for the cases where local layering is required?  
2025-06-03 15:15:54 <@snthrailkill:matrix.org> So its more likely we get FCOS building first and then Fedora Atomic?
2025-06-03 15:16:27 <@jlebon:fedora.im> right, the server side and client side are decoupled. the FCOS work currently to "rebase" to fedora-bootc is pretty invisible to end users. the final artifact is almost identical.
2025-06-03 15:16:28 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Is there anything stopping Atomic Desktops, from switching over to being fedora-bootc based, while still relying on rpm-ostree for the cases where local layering is required?  
2025-06-03 15:16:46 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Is there anything stopping Atomic Desktops from switching over to being fedora-bootc based, while still relying on rpm-ostree for the cases where local layering is required?  
2025-06-03 15:17:28 <@jlebon:fedora.im> (I put "rebase" in quotes, because FCOS currently already inherits from fedora-bootc, but this moves it from inheriting via git submodules to inheriting implicitly via bootc-base-imagectl.)
2025-06-03 15:18:00 <@jlebon:fedora.im> on the client-side, i think https://github.com/coreos/rpm-ostree/issues/4994 would help a lot
2025-06-03 15:18:17 <@jlebon:fedora.im> but i don't think there's any work being done on that currently
2025-06-03 15:18:43 <@jlebon:fedora.im> but basically yes, you can have the 'server side experience' of bootable containers while still using rpm-ostree client side
2025-06-03 15:19:19 <@walters:fedora.im> Yeah we'll continue to support rpm-ostree client layering for quite a while, though there is ongoing discussions with dnf
2025-06-03 15:20:36 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> OK, so we should probably create a tracking issue for features we expect for f43 -- this will help w/ marketing when the release comes near
2025-06-03 15:20:37 <@walters:fedora.im> That's https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/4
2025-06-03 15:23:52 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> I'll follow up on this f43 tracking issue. Do we have other items to discuss? 
2025-06-03 15:23:57 <@rsturla:fedora.im> The issue says it would require the rpm-ostree rechunk mechanism to support regular OCI layers, rather than however the ostree chunking currently works.
2025-06-03 15:23:57 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Another potentially large but invisible change proposed for F43 was the removal of /ostree - https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/base-images/-/issues/58  
2025-06-03 15:24:06 <@rsturla:fedora.im> Another potentially large but invisible change proposed for F43 was the removal of /ostree from the base images - https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/base-images/-/issues/58  
2025-06-03 15:24:06 <@rsturla:fedora.im> The issue says it would require the rpm-ostree rechunk mechanism to support regular OCI layers, rather than however the ostree chunking currently works.
2025-06-03 15:26:27 <@walters:fedora.im> Yeah, I can't say we'll do that for 43 though
2025-06-03 15:26:40 <@walters:fedora.im> Given current other priority targets
2025-06-03 15:29:18 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> Shall we wrap this one up?
2025-06-03 15:30:17 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !endmeeting