01:00:04 <nirik> #startmeeting Learn about exciting Fedora 13 Features 01:00:04 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 10 01:00:04 2010 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 01:00:04 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 01:00:04 <nirik> #topic Introduction 01:00:10 <nirik> welcome everyone! 01:00:27 * lcafiero hands an apple to the teacher 01:00:35 <nirik> I'm going to talk about new features coming up in Fedora 13 tonight. 01:00:59 <nirik> Please do feel free to ask questions on things as I go over them. 01:01:14 <nirik> First off, what do I mean by Features? 01:01:37 <nirik> Fedora in recent releases has tried to note and showcase exciting new changes for each release. 01:02:03 <nirik> So, these are new and exciting things, things that we want to show off and note. 01:02:37 <nirik> If you want more information about the Feature process you can find it at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy 01:03:23 <nirik> There are a lot of Features coming up in F13... 01:03:32 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/FeatureList Is the full list. 01:04:18 <nirik> So, what I would like to do is start at the top of the list and go down them with a few notes about each, and folks can ask questions as they come. 01:04:46 <nirik> Anyone have any questions about what features are at a high level or the list? 01:05:15 <nirik> ok, lets go ahead and start in... as I said there are a lot of features. ;) 01:05:31 <nirik> #topic Anaconda Storage Filtering 01:05:45 <nirik> This is the continuation of some work thats happened in f11/f12. 01:06:07 <nirik> Basically anaconda (the fedora installer/upgrader) is gaining some more storage features. 01:06:47 <nirik> #topic Automatic Print Driver Installation 01:06:54 <nirik> This is a nice one. 01:07:09 <nirik> PackageKit in f13 will be able to detect and install the right drivers for a wide range of printers. 01:07:31 <ardchoille> So, printer drivers will be installed when a new printer is plugged in? 01:07:33 <gunther44> why would an installer/upgrader need storage facilities? 01:07:49 <nirik> ardchoille: yes, for many printers. 01:08:00 <gunther44> that is nice 01:08:04 <ardchoille> Indeed 01:08:10 <nirik> gunther44: it's detetecting and filtering the existing storage on your machine. Ie, what you want to install on, or leave alone, etc. 01:08:25 <gunther44> ah, so if i have existing os' 01:08:54 <nb> didn't it do this for f12? 01:08:56 <nirik> This change with printers allows media to not have to ship all the drivers, they can be installed when you plugin a printer that needs them. 01:08:57 <nb> or it does more for f13? 01:09:10 <nirik> nb: which? printers? or storage? 01:09:15 <nb> printers 01:09:22 <gunther44> i manually partitioned my drives to install fedora, but could anaconda take one big partition with windows on, and repartition it automatically? 01:09:32 <nirik> nb: it didn't in f12 I don't think. 01:09:46 <nb> hmm, i must have but just didnt remember it :) 01:10:20 <nirik> gunther44: lots of info on it at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design/AnacondaStorageUI if you want to look through there. ;) 01:10:21 * nb didnt remember installing his but thats fine :) I forget things a lot 01:10:25 <nb> sorry for interrupting 01:10:32 <ISCrow> Auto Printers: So is the auto driver install just for locally plugged in printers or network descivered printers as well? 01:10:34 <nirik> no problem. 01:11:13 <nirik> ISCrow: it uses a IEEE 1284 Device ID string which all of those have. ;) So it's all of them. 01:11:31 * nirik should be posting the links to the feature pages. 01:11:35 <nirik> This one is: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/AutomaticPrintDriverInstallation 01:11:43 <ISCrow> awesome 01:12:06 <nirik> ok, moving along./ 01:12:12 <nirik> #topic Better Webcam Support 01:12:19 <nirik> This is just more webcam driver support. 01:12:26 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/BetterWebcamSupportF13 01:12:43 <nirik> We have been doing a ton of work on new webcam drivers over the last few releases. 01:12:47 <nirik> This just keeps up the good work. 01:13:18 <nirik> #topic boot.fedoraproject.org 01:13:22 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/boot.fedoraproject.org 01:13:32 <nirik> This is an exciting new way to install fedora. ;) 01:13:42 <nirik> Basically it's a network install using gPXE. 01:14:05 <gunther44> i think the webcam was the only thing that works out of the box in 12 on my laptop ;) 01:14:15 <nirik> gunther44: good to hear it worked. ;) 01:14:48 <nirik> So with boot.fedoraproject.org you can do a network install without having to setup a pxe server. 01:15:14 <gunther44> i'd have an issue with that after all the issues with my wifi 01:15:32 <ardchoille> Also good for folks who may not be able to dl a large iso 01:15:35 <nirik> gunther44: you do need a supported network device... but there are lots. 01:15:57 <gunther44> on demand installs are fine, only if it can be 100% guaranteed that the device can connect 01:16:11 <nirik> gunther44: yeah, it's not for everyone, but it's another nice choice. 01:16:24 <nirik> #topic Boost 1.41 Uplift 01:16:31 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F13Boost141 01:16:39 <gunther44> yeah, but i don't think it could replace any iso's 01:16:44 <nirik> This is an update to the Boost framework to 1.41... which is a major new version with a new buildsystem. 01:17:03 <nirik> This is nice for developers. ;) 01:17:11 <nirik> #topic Dogtag Certificate System 01:17:14 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DogtagCertificateSystem 01:17:26 <yates> nirik: so this is just an update the version of boost provided in the repos? 01:17:41 <nirik> Dogtag is a nice system for managing ssl certs and certificate authority. 01:18:21 <nirik> yates: yes. But boost is used for a LOT of things... this was a major undertaking to update everything. ;) 01:19:02 <nirik> #topic ColorManagement 01:19:05 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ColorManagement 01:19:27 <nirik> Their is a new color management application and tables 01:19:48 <nirik> this is an area that linux hasn't had anything in. Many of the tools are closed source in this area. 01:20:08 <nirik> So, for example you can calibrate your monitor and printer and really get the same color when printing you see. 01:20:18 <nirik> or make your monitor show more real/true colors on photos. 01:20:30 <nirik> This is a big deal for printing and photo work. 01:20:37 <ardchoille> That's going to be nice 01:20:43 <yates> yes, nice! 01:21:04 <nirik> it's amazing how quickly the app has come up to speed. it's nice looking already. 01:21:16 <nirik> #topic Easier Python Debugging 01:21:20 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EasierPythonDebugging 01:21:28 <nirik> This is another great developer feature. 01:21:48 <nirik> You can now use gdb to debug python applications. 01:21:54 <yates> great! 01:22:27 <nirik> It's able to report a lot of the internals, so it's sometimes better than native debuggers in python. 01:22:48 <nirik> #topic Gnome 2.30 01:22:50 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome2.30 01:22:57 <nirik> Another Fedora, another update to gnome. ;) 01:23:26 <VileGent> +1 01:23:27 <ardchoille> Will gnome-shell be default in Gnome 2.30? I hear it's coming. 01:23:28 <nirik> full release notes at: http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.30/ 01:23:34 <gunther44> gnome looks pretty now 01:23:35 <nirik> ardchoille: nope. thats Gnome 3. 01:23:39 <ardchoille> ok 01:23:45 <nirik> it's available however as a tech preview. 01:23:49 <nirik> so, you can install and test it out. 01:24:17 <nirik> I think 2.30 is the last of the 2.x releases, so next cycle we may see gnome3 and gnome-shell. 01:24:34 <nirik> It's worth noting in this release: "nautilus defaults to browser mode now" 01:24:50 <ardchoille> Nice, no more changes for that :) 01:24:53 <nirik> #topic Implicit DSO Linking 01:24:55 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ChangeInImplicitDSOLinking 01:25:02 <nirik> This is another developer related change. 01:25:37 <nirik> Many packages were linking with a particular library, that in turn linked to another one. This feature requires things to list all the libs they are linking to directly... 01:25:53 <nirik> this prevents changes in libraries from messing up applications at runtime. 01:26:20 <nirik> It also moves us along to other new features, like the gold linker (which is much faster than the default gcc ld linker) 01:26:41 <nirik> #topic IntelliJ IDEA 01:26:44 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/IntelliJ_IDEA 01:27:00 <nirik> This is a popular java ide. 01:27:46 <gunther44> are there any plans to include eclipse? 01:28:02 <nirik> gunther44: eclipse is already in Fedora. ;) 01:28:09 <nirik> #topic KDE44 01:28:11 <gunther44> oh, pardon me then! 01:28:12 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE44 01:28:17 <nirik> Another update to another DE. ;) 01:28:35 <nirik> kde 4.4 will have more bells and whistles and improve stability for the 4.x series. 01:29:11 <nirik> The next two features are also kde related. 01:29:16 <nirik> #topic KDE PolicyKit One Qt 01:29:20 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_PolicyKitOneQt 01:29:43 <nirik> This is integration for KDE for polkit... the policy/permissions framework. 01:29:52 <nirik> and 01:29:56 <nirik> #topic KDE PulseAudio Integration 01:29:57 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_PulseAudio_Integration 01:30:05 <nirik> Integration with pulseaudio. 01:30:39 <nirik> #topic KVM Stable PCI Addresses 01:30:41 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KVM_Stable_PCI_Addresses 01:31:01 <nirik> This is a feature of the KVM/libvirt setup to keep stable pci addresses for things it adds to guests. 01:31:35 <nirik> So, if you add a network card for example, then remove it and add it again, the guest would see it as the exact same card. 01:31:52 <nirik> This prevents problems for guest OSes that can't autoconfigure things. 01:32:15 <nirik> #topic NetBeans_6.8 01:32:23 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetBeans_6.8 01:32:37 <nirik> Another java framework. :) This was added in F12, but this is a new major upstream version. 01:33:02 <nirik> The next 3 are all NetworkManager related. 01:33:13 <nirik> #topic NetworkManager Bluetooth DUN 01:33:15 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerBluetoothDUN 01:33:36 <nirik> Easy to use support to use a bluetooth dialup device (ie, a phone) as a network source. 01:33:47 <nirik> #topic NetworkManager Command Line 01:33:51 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerCmdline 01:34:01 <nirik> A command line for NetworkManager, nmcli has been added. 01:34:07 <nirik> So you can manage your networks via command line. 01:34:15 <ardchoille> That's going to make a lot of folks happy 01:34:29 <nirik> Yeah, we had cnetworkmanager, but it's interface wasn't the best... 01:34:36 <nirik> #topic NetworkManager Mobile Status 01:34:38 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerMobileStatus 01:34:55 <nirik> And finally for NM, this allows the networkmanager applet to show things like signal strength on 3g devices. 01:35:03 <nirik> You can see when you are roaming or have low signal. 01:35:41 <nirik> It's pretty handy to see that info in an easy way. 01:35:47 <nirik> #topic NFSv4 Default 01:35:49 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NFSv4Default 01:35:55 <nirik> nfs version 4 will be default in f13. 01:36:03 <nirik> It was close to landing for f12, but it didn't quite make it. 01:36:29 <nirik> nfsv4 is nice in that it is much easier to manage on firewalls, faster, better locking, etc. 01:36:45 <nirik> You can easily fall back or use v3 if you like however 01:37:06 <nirik> also for NFS: 01:37:11 <nirik> #topic NFS Client IPv6 01:37:12 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NFSClientIPv6 01:37:25 <nirik> ipv6 client support has been added. For those folks that are using ipv6 networks. 01:37:57 <nirik> We have also added displayport support for 2 of the major video drivers... 01:38:02 <nirik> #topic Nouveau DisplayPort 01:38:04 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NouveauDisplayPort 01:38:16 <nirik> and also for radeon. 01:38:29 <nirik> This will be welcome news for those folks with displayport hardware. 01:38:30 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RadeonDisplayPort 01:38:56 <nirik> #topic Python 3 01:39:00 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python3F13 01:39:16 <nirik> A fully parallel installable python3 package is provided. 01:39:44 <nirik> this should allow folks to test programs and develop on python3, while still being able to use 2.6 for day to day work. 01:40:11 <nirik> #topic RPM4.8 01:40:13 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RPM4.8 01:40:32 <nirik> Another infrastructure update. rpm 4.8 has some nice speed improvements and bug fixes. 01:41:06 <nirik> it's worth noting this time there were no package format changes... 01:41:28 <nirik> so rpm 4.7 in f12 can read/manage any of the 4.8 created packages. 01:41:53 <nirik> #topic SIP Witch Domain Telephony 01:41:55 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SIP_Witch_Domain_Telephony 01:42:26 <nirik> This is a very nice setup for SIP, allowing voice calling between fedora machines running the indicated packages. 01:42:52 <nirik> Hopefully this will gain traction as a alternative to non free solutions in this area. 01:43:19 <nirik> #topic SSSDByDefault 01:43:36 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SSSDByDefault 01:43:46 <nirik> SSSD is an authentication framework. So, you can much more easily manage ldap/krb5/etc authentication. 01:44:21 <nirik> It also allows offline logins... so it caches information needed and allows you to login even when you aren't connected to your ldap server or the like. 01:44:55 <nirik> #topic System Rollback With Btrfs 01:44:58 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemRollbackWithBtrfs 01:45:09 <nirik> This is a nice little feature for folks using the new btrfs filesystem 01:45:24 <nirik> Basically it allows you to take a snapshot then apply updates. 01:45:38 <nirik> Then if you decide something is broken, you can rollback to the snapshot 01:45:52 <ardchoille> I like that, I've been doing this manually with PartImage for too long. 01:45:52 <fenris02> lvm too btw. 01:45:59 <nirik> You do have to have an install using btrfs, but it's a nice preview of what will be possible someday. 01:46:40 <nirik> #topic Systemtap Static Probes 01:46:43 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemtapStaticProbes 01:46:50 <nirik> Here's another developer related change. 01:47:12 <gunther44> nice 01:47:19 <nirik> This basically allows for much better system tap tracing of applications. 01:47:57 <nirik> #topic Sugar_0.88 01:47:59 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Sugar_0.88 01:48:02 <nirik> Another Desktop update. 01:48:11 <nirik> This time Sugar. Used on the OLPC. 01:48:24 <nirik> It's a very different setup, but some people really like it. ;) 01:48:48 <nirik> They have added a number of activities that were not in previous releases too. 01:48:52 <nirik> Lots of ways to learn. 01:49:15 <nirik> #topic Udisks Improvements 01:49:19 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UdisksImprovements 01:49:19 <gunther44> sugar is built into fedora? 01:49:28 <fenris02> gunther44, yum install @sugar-desktop 01:49:29 <nirik> gunther44: it is built on fedora. ;) 01:49:56 <nirik> Udisks gains some very nice improvements, including lvm support... 01:50:32 <gunther44> ah sorry, newbie q's :) 01:50:46 <nirik> gunther44: no problem at all. ;) Try it out sometime... it's an interesting desktop. 01:50:53 <nirik> #topic Upstart0.6.0 01:50:56 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Upstart0.6.0 01:51:10 <nirik> Upstart (the init framework) has been updated to 0.6.0 01:51:11 <fenris02> have they finalized the iniscript files for this release? 01:51:20 <nirik> fenris02: nope. ;( 01:51:31 <fenris02> bummer. 01:51:41 <nirik> basically this was to get to a supported upstream release (they ended support for the old one), and help improve stability. 01:51:51 <nirik> There aren't many other changes yet. 01:52:22 <nirik> #topic User Account Dialog 01:52:24 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UserAccountDialog 01:52:44 <nirik> This is an interesting feature. Basically it allows users to set information for small/single user deployments. 01:52:57 <nirik> It's worth noting that this has some of the features of the old gdmsetup in it to manage gdm 01:53:27 <nirik> So, you can easily hide the user list in gdm for example. 01:54:11 <nirik> The next 4 features are all libvirt/virtual machine related. ;) 01:54:15 <nirik> #topic VHostNet 01:54:18 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VHostNet 01:54:31 <nirik> This basically greatly increases the performance of virtual networks. 01:54:54 <nirik> #topic Virtx2apic 01:54:57 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Virtx2apic 01:55:18 <nirik> This improves performance on machines with x2apic support. 01:55:37 <nirik> Typically this is newer machines with lots of cpus. ;) 01:56:01 * nirik is sad not to have a machine where this is supported. ;( 01:56:05 <nirik> #topic Virtio-Serial 01:56:07 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/VirtioSerial 01:56:37 <nirik> This feature adds a simple serial interface between the guest and hosts in a virtual setup. 01:56:48 <nirik> This has all kinds of handy implications. 01:56:56 <nirik> You can talk to guests that don't have any network support enabled. 01:57:15 <nirik> SPICE (a fancy new accelerated graphics for virtual machines) will use this interface 01:57:34 <nirik> Lots of possible uses. 01:58:04 <nirik> #topic Virt Shared Network Interface 01:58:07 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Shared_Network_Interface 01:58:28 <nirik> This allows for virtuals to use a bridged network instead of a routed one (which is the default). 01:58:51 <nirik> Sadly, support hadn't landed in networkmanager, so you still need to disable it and use the network service, but at least it's much easier to setup. 01:59:08 <nirik> and finally... 01:59:12 <nirik> #topic Zarafa 01:59:15 <VileGent> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Zarafa 01:59:32 <nirik> Zarafa is a open source Exchange replacement. It can do mail, calendaring, webmail, smtp, etc. 01:59:58 <ardchoille> A lot of folks are going to like that. 02:00:07 <nirik> It's a pretty slick setup... 02:00:21 <nirik> #topic Q and A / General feature discussion 02:00:42 <nirik> So, whew. Thats the list. ;) Lots of features... showing how quickly Fedora jumps in just 6 months. 02:01:05 <nirik> Does anyone have any questions on any of the features? Anything we should go into more detail on? 02:01:23 <ardchoille> I had a question about the IPv6 02:01:38 <nirik> sure, the nfs ipv6? 02:01:43 <ardchoille> Will this speed up Firefox without having to disable IPv6 in Firefox's config 02:02:07 <nirik> This is just for NFS... network file sharing. ;) 02:02:16 <ardchoille> Ah, ok 02:02:16 <nirik> So, it will not affect firefox any. 02:03:26 <ardchoille> Lots of exciting features, especially for developers. I'm looking forward to Fedora 13 :) 02:03:28 * nirik is most excited by the NM changes, and possibly the color management. 02:03:56 <quagga> I updated to the RC today. I have kms on my intel. wahoo! Thanks to all your hard work 02:04:42 <nirik> cool. 02:04:54 <nirik> Well, if no further questions, I will go ahead and wrap things up. ;) 02:05:12 <nirik> Hopefully this has been informative and let folks know about a feature or two to look forward to. ;) 02:05:41 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone! 02:05:41 <ardchoille> Very informative, thank you nirik 02:05:59 <nirik> #endmeeting