2024-04-17 16:32:01 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !startmeeting fedora_coreos_meeting
2024-04-17 16:32:05 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-04-17 16:32:01 UTC
2024-04-17 16:32:05 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_coreos_meeting'
2024-04-17 16:32:09 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> .hi
2024-04-17 16:32:16 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !topic roll call
2024-04-17 16:32:51 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !hi gursewak
2024-04-17 16:32:53 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Gursewak Singh (gursewak)
2024-04-17 16:33:06 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> !hi
2024-04-17 16:33:09 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jean-Baptiste Trystram (jbtrystram) - he / him / his
2024-04-17 16:33:20 <@ravanelli:matrix.org> !hi
2024-04-17 16:33:20 <@jbrooks:matrix.org> !hi jasonbrooks
2024-04-17 16:33:24 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @ravanelli:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
2024-04-17 16:33:25 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jason Brooks (jasonbrooks) - he / him / his
2024-04-17 16:34:08 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !hi marmijo
2024-04-17 16:34:09 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michael Armijo (marmijo)
2024-04-17 16:35:11 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !topic Action items from last meeting
2024-04-17 16:35:18 <@siosm:matrix.org> !hi
2024-04-17 16:35:21 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Timothée Ravier (siosm) - he / him / his
2024-04-17 16:35:28 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-17 16:35:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (jlebon)
2024-04-17 16:36:00 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !hi
2024-04-17 16:36:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his
2024-04-17 16:36:09 <@siosm:matrix.org> I don't see any actions in https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-coreos-community-meeting-minutes-2024-04-10/112474
2024-04-17 16:36:38 <@gurssing:matrix.org> Alright, I'll move on to the only topic we have for today then.
2024-04-17 16:36:45 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !topic Ship dnf in FCOS and RHCOS
2024-04-17 16:36:52 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1687
2024-04-17 16:38:13 <@jlebon:fedora.im> looks like travier tagged it in. do you recall why?
2024-04-17 16:38:55 <@siosm:matrix.org> Well, there was some changes, due to the fact that dnf5 may not be ostree aware soon and some of the work would go on dnf4.
2024-04-17 16:39:03 <@siosm:matrix.org> We can not ship dnf4 anyway so meh
2024-04-17 16:39:21 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> dnf5 "may not" be ostree aware soon ?
2024-04-17 16:39:21 <@siosm:matrix.org> So there was the option of shipping microdnf right now
2024-04-17 16:39:25 <@siosm:matrix.org> or wait for dnf5
2024-04-17 16:39:39 <@siosm:matrix.org> the work will focus on dnf4 for now
2024-04-17 16:39:44 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> did you mean `may`?
2024-04-17 16:39:45 <@siosm:matrix.org> the compat work
2024-04-17 16:39:55 <@siosm:matrix.org> no, may not
2024-04-17 16:40:04 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> was it ever ostree aware?
2024-04-17 16:40:23 <@siosm:matrix.org> "will not be made ostree aware any time soon"*
2024-04-17 16:40:41 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> ok, I understand now
2024-04-17 16:40:54 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think this one probably requires syncing with dcantrell/the dnf team
2024-04-17 16:41:09 <@siosm:matrix.org> I'm currently giving bootc + dnf a try on FCOS to see where the rough edges are
2024-04-17 16:41:43 <@siosm:matrix.org> I had tagged it but I don't think we need to do more than what we did right now, which is wait for dnf5 to land in F41
2024-04-17 16:42:06 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think i saw something go by that the change was accepted
2024-04-17 16:42:31 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yes, https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3191
2024-04-17 16:43:10 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think let's hold discussions on this and sync with the dnf team first
2024-04-17 16:43:27 <@siosm:matrix.org> 👍️
2024-04-17 16:43:50 <@siosm:matrix.org> the switch has been reverted in the past so I wouldn't be confident that this will land in F41 right now
2024-04-17 16:44:02 <@siosm:matrix.org> but that's another issue
2024-04-17 16:44:19 <@siosm:matrix.org> the switch has been reverted in the past so I'm not confident that this will land in F41 right now
2024-04-17 16:44:23 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> if dnf5 isn't ostree aware, does that help us much?

2024-04-17 16:44:55 <@siosm:matrix.org> It helps in the layering case to "avoid" using rpm-ostree install and the confusing logic for dnf users
2024-04-17 16:45:12 <@siosm:matrix.org> It helps in the layering case to "avoid" using `rpm-ostree install` and the confusing logic for dnf users
2024-04-17 16:45:17 <@jlebon:fedora.im> note "ostree aware" in this context means making it useful client-side. it was always my understanding that that would take time
2024-04-17 16:45:23 <@siosm:matrix.org> or rpm-ostree usroverlay + dnf install
2024-04-17 16:45:35 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier: that works today
2024-04-17 16:45:59 <@siosm:matrix.org> yes, we need some tests for that
2024-04-17 16:46:31 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yeah definitely. for the layering flow too
2024-04-17 16:46:42 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i'll file a tracker issue for that
2024-04-17 16:47:07 <@aaradhak:matrix.org> !hi aaradhak
2024-04-17 16:47:10 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aashish Radhakrishnan (aaradhak)
2024-04-17 16:47:42 <@siosm:matrix.org> (so overall, no action, but good discussion :) )
2024-04-17 16:48:00 <@gurssing:matrix.org> Do we want to keep the meeting label for next time? 
2024-04-17 16:48:14 <@siosm:matrix.org> I don't think we need to
2024-04-17 16:48:39 <@gurssing:matrix.org> Got it.
We don't have any other issue on our plate.
2024-04-17 16:49:01 <@gurssing:matrix.org> Is there anything else before I can move to open-floor?
2024-04-17 16:50:19 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i'd like to bring up https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1652 at some point but there's still discussions ongoing there from people who know more about the platform
2024-04-17 16:50:34 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think maybe next week will be good. and we can see if they want to join
2024-04-17 16:50:55 <@jlebon:fedora.im> but the summary is that that platform is quite messy
2024-04-17 16:52:30 <@jlebon:fedora.im> we might have to support parsing a subset of cloud-init in afterburn to provide a good experience
2024-04-17 16:53:13 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> hmm
2024-04-17 16:53:34 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: like to pick up SSH keys? or all of Ignition?
2024-04-17 16:54:15 <@jlebon:fedora.im> SSH keys and hostname, possibly other things. no Ignition
2024-04-17 16:54:30 <@jlebon:fedora.im> the platform basically owns the cloud-config for its own platformy purposes
2024-04-17 16:54:31 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> the users have to manually upload image right? 
2024-04-17 16:54:55 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yes, that's my understanding
2024-04-17 16:55:04 <@jlebon:fedora.im> well, i think there's a templating system
2024-04-17 16:55:18 <@jlebon:fedora.im> so someone could upload once, and then users can build VMs off of that template
2024-04-17 16:55:18 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> might be an option for the users to bake in a pointer ignition config into the image they upload (using coreos-installer) and then update the https location when they want to change things
2024-04-17 16:55:54 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think we can have advanced options for passing ignition configs, but again, if we want to provide a good UX, we would have to parse proxmox's cloud-config
2024-04-17 16:57:06 <@siosm:matrix.org> That's not a great experience :/
2024-04-17 16:57:55 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> travier: which part?
2024-04-17 16:57:55 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yeah, it's definitely not ideal. i guess it depends how much we want to care about fitting into the paradigm of that platform
2024-04-17 16:58:51 <@siosm:matrix.org> modifying an image and uploading it each time you want to change the URL
2024-04-17 16:58:55 <@jlebon:fedora.im> but from a user's POV clicking through the UI, there's no way really to just paste in your Ignition config (or for that matter, your own custom cloud-init config for cloud-init-based images)
2024-04-17 16:59:09 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier: ahh gotcha. thought you were talking about something else
2024-04-17 16:59:20 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> travier: my suggestion was more bake a single URL into the image and then update that location anytime you want to make a change
2024-04-17 16:59:45 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> so you don't need to upload a new image
2024-04-17 17:00:14 <@jlebon:fedora.im> that's one way. there's also support for custom ISOs or overriding the user-data, but they're more advanced
2024-04-17 17:01:14 <@siosm:matrix.org> https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1652#issuecomment-2056663210
2024-04-17 17:01:56 <@siosm:matrix.org> feels hacky but could work
2024-04-17 17:02:05 <@siosm:matrix.org> (this platform looks like a mess)
2024-04-17 17:02:20 <@jlebon:fedora.im> agreed
2024-04-17 17:03:02 <@jlebon:fedora.im> open floor?
2024-04-17 17:03:19 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> how realistic would it be to ask the platform and hope for a change ?
2024-04-17 17:03:54 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> if cloud-init UX is bad as well, that's a strong case IMO
2024-04-17 17:05:27 <@siosm:matrix.org> I'm afraid that it "works" for cloud-init: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Cloud-Init_Support
2024-04-17 17:05:29 <@jlebon:fedora.im> it seems quite fundamental to how it works, so it'd be a non-trivial change i think
2024-04-17 17:07:04 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier: yes, but passing custom cloud-init data isn't really first-class AIUI
2024-04-17 17:07:04 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I guess maybe continue to have the discussion in the ticket and maybe by next week we can get a suggested proposal for a path forward ?
2024-04-17 17:07:18 <@jlebon:fedora.im> which is really surprising
2024-04-17 17:07:37 <@jlebon:fedora.im> it's like the expectation is that you just bring up the VM and then SSH to do your configuration
2024-04-17 17:07:47 <@jlebon:fedora.im> dustymabe: yeah, agree
2024-04-17 17:08:05 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !topic Open Floor
2024-04-17 17:10:23 <@gurssing:matrix.org> I'll give another minute or so before I end the meeting:)
2024-04-17 17:11:36 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !endmeeting