2024-11-20 16:30:23 <@siosm:matrix.org> !startmeeting fedora_coreos_meeting
2024-11-20 16:30:26 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-11-20 16:30:23 UTC
2024-11-20 16:30:26 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora_coreos_meeting'
2024-11-20 16:30:31 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic roll call
2024-11-20 16:31:00 <@siosm:matrix.org> !hi
2024-11-20 16:31:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Timothée Ravier (siosm) - he / him / his
2024-11-20 16:31:03 <@gurssing:matrix.org> !hi gursewak
2024-11-20 16:31:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Gursewak Singh (gursewak)
2024-11-20 16:31:10 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> !hi
2024-11-20 16:31:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Dusty Mabe (dustymabe) - he / him / his
2024-11-20 16:31:28 <@marmijo:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-20 16:31:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michael Armijo (marmijo)
2024-11-20 16:31:55 <@hricky:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-20 16:31:56 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his
2024-11-20 16:33:28 <@jlebon:fedora.im> !hi
2024-11-20 16:33:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> None (jlebon)
2024-11-20 16:35:14 <@aaradhak:matrix.org> !hi aaradhak
2024-11-20 16:35:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aashish Radhakrishnan (aaradhak)
2024-11-20 16:36:09 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic Action items from last meeting
2024-11-20 16:36:17 <@apiaseck:matrix.org> !hi
2024-11-20 16:36:18 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-coreos-community-meeting-minutes-2024-11-13/136726
2024-11-20 16:36:19 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Adam Piasecki (c4rt0) - he / him / his
2024-11-20 16:36:40 <@siosm:matrix.org> There are no action items from the previous meeting as far as I can see.
2024-11-20 16:37:09 <@siosm:matrix.org> Should we start with the F42 changes?
2024-11-20 16:37:47 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic tracker: Fedora 42 changes considerations
2024-11-20 16:37:56 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1838
2024-11-20 16:38:36 <@marmijo:fedora.im> I updated the script to look at F42 changes and created this issue. I already did a preliminary pass and added some notes for changes that have been deferred from previous release cycles.
2024-11-20 16:38:49 <@marmijo:fedora.im> There are a few new change considerations to review though
2024-11-20 16:38:58 <@siosm:matrix.org> Thanks!
2024-11-20 16:39:04 <@siosm:matrix.org> Let's do a quick review of the remaining ones
2024-11-20 16:39:36 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 101. Update Zlib-ng to version 2.2.x
2024-11-20 16:39:44 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ZlibNG-2.2
2024-11-20 16:40:41 <@siosm:matrix.org> We ship `zlib-ng-compat`. This should come as an update for us. Nothing specific to do.
2024-11-20 16:41:13 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 106. Enable systemd service hardening features for default system services
2024-11-20 16:41:20 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SystemdSecurityHardening
2024-11-20 16:41:28 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> > Considering that API and ABI are expected to be kept the same, no impacts are expected. 
2024-11-20 16:41:52 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I think nothing for us to do unless our tests start to fail
2024-11-20 16:42:01 <@siosm:matrix.org> agree
2024-11-20 16:42:27 <@siosm:matrix.org> For the systemd services hardening one, we already have a tracking issue for it. Nothing specific more to do.
2024-11-20 16:42:50 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 107. Unify /usr/bin and /usr/sbin
2024-11-20 16:42:57 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Unify_bin_and_sbin
2024-11-20 16:43:34 <@siosm:matrix.org> I think Colin did the work for this one: https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/29
2024-11-20 16:43:58 <@siosm:matrix.org> We will have to check Rawhide to confirm that this is OK.
2024-11-20 16:44:07 <@jlebon:fedora.im> doesn't seem like we got feedback yet whether it's sufficient
2024-11-20 16:44:10 <@siosm:matrix.org> Apart from that, I don't think there is anything else to do.
2024-11-20 16:44:26 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> hmm. what if users have already written stuff into `/usr/local/sbin/` on existing systems? 
2024-11-20 16:44:56 <@siosm:matrix.org> I don't think that touches anything /usr/local related
2024-11-20 16:45:12 <@siosm:matrix.org> It's only /usr/bin /usr/sbin
2024-11-20 16:45:28 <@siosm:matrix.org> ah, my bad, it's not from the change page
2024-11-20 16:45:51 <@jlebon:fedora.im> `/usr/local` is node state currently, so it can't really touch that
2024-11-20 16:46:00 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> > The same change is also done to make /usr/local/sbin point to bin, effectively making /usr/local/bin/foo and /usr/local/sbin/foo point to the same place.
2024-11-20 16:46:04 <@siosm:matrix.org> Then we need some form of migration / transition / warning
2024-11-20 16:46:37 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: if they are going to drop `/usr/local/sbin` from the path then they'll need to migrate sbin to bin
2024-11-20 16:47:01 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> but really I feel like this is a global Fedora problem and not FCOS specific 
2024-11-20 16:47:35 <@jlebon:fedora.im> hmm ok, yeah this needs some investigation for the upgrading case
2024-11-20 16:48:07 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2024-11-20 16:48:07 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> doesn't say they are going to remove `/usr/local/sbin` from path
2024-11-20 16:48:07 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 
2024-11-20 16:48:07 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> > /usr/sbin will be removed from the default $PATH
2024-11-20 16:48:07 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> though.. it only says:
2024-11-20 16:48:07 <@siosm:matrix.org> In Fedora the migration is done in a postprocess script that will not run for us
2024-11-20 16:48:20 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> so maybe we should just clarify that
2024-11-20 16:49:24 <@jlebon:fedora.im> travier: there might be a delta though between new vs upgrading nodes
2024-11-20 16:49:30 <@siosm:matrix.org> Alright,n I've marked https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1759 as needing action/investigation
2024-11-20 16:50:00 <@siosm:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon: Yes, we might need some migration
2024-11-20 16:50:22 <@jlebon:fedora.im> currently `/usr/local` is populated via tmpfiles shipped by rpm-ostree, and i don't think we changed anything there yet
2024-11-20 16:50:49 <@jlebon:fedora.im> https://github.com/coreos/rpm-ostree/blob/main/src/app/rpm-ostree-0-integration.conf#L8-L18
2024-11-20 16:50:58 <@siosm:matrix.org> I've just booted up a Rawhide FCOS and it's not in there so looks like this did not land yet
2024-11-20 16:51:23 <@jlebon:fedora.im> that'll require some tweaking on the rpm-ostree side too i think
2024-11-20 16:52:51 <@siosm:matrix.org> I asked in https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/tracker/-/issues/29 if there are any updates
2024-11-20 16:53:10 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 112. Retire zbus v1
2024-11-20 16:53:17 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RetireZbusV1
2024-11-20 16:54:33 <@siosm:matrix.org> I think we should be good for this one
2024-11-20 16:54:46 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> doesn't look like we own any of the packages that are still using the old zbus v1? 
2024-11-20 16:54:50 <@siosm:matrix.org> ah, no, we ship nmstate
2024-11-20 16:55:00 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> right, but we don't own that package?
2024-11-20 16:55:04 <@siosm:matrix.org> yep
2024-11-20 16:55:11 <@siosm:matrix.org> so we'll only need to watch it
2024-11-20 16:55:43 <@siosm:matrix.org> > No action for our packages. We will have to watch the progress for the nmstate package.
2024-11-20 16:56:00 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 204. Confidential Virtualization Host with AMD SEV-SNP
2024-11-20 16:56:09 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ConfidentialVirtHostAMDSEVSNP
2024-11-20 16:57:06 <@siosm:matrix.org> It does not look like we have anything specific to do here for now
2024-11-20 16:58:06 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> travier: because we already added support for GCP?
2024-11-20 16:58:14 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1777#issuecomment-2328567389
2024-11-20 16:58:28 <@jlebon:fedora.im> might be good to add CI for it
2024-11-20 16:58:30 <@siosm:matrix.org> No, the support for GCP/Azure is for running as guest
2024-11-20 16:58:36 <@siosm:matrix.org> this is for running as a host
2024-11-20 16:58:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> we would need specific hardware to test that
2024-11-20 16:59:06 <@siosm:matrix.org> I don't think we can get that kind of hardware in the clouds AFAIK
2024-11-20 16:59:31 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> ok, so we'd need some bare metal hardware in Fedora infra to be able to test it? what are the change owners using? 
2024-11-20 17:00:30 <@jlebon:fedora.im> but anyway, this is unlikely to have anything FCOS-specific. it looks more like enablement in the kernel and qemu
2024-11-20 17:00:30 <@jlebon:fedora.im> gcp supports nested virt but not sure if SEV-SNP nests.
2024-11-20 17:01:49 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> travier: can you clarify [Huijing's comment](https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1777#issuecomment-2328567389) when you update the issue? She is specifically talking about guest, whereas this change is talking about host support
2024-11-20 17:02:44 <@siosm:matrix.org> Apparently we support sandboxed containers (which is similar but not the same) on some clouds so maybe this could work in some clouds https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/openshift_sandboxed_containers/1.7/html/user_guide/index
2024-11-20 17:03:17 <@siosm:matrix.org> but yeah, this is not something specific to us apart form testing that it works but that's another problem
2024-11-20 17:04:07 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 206. Enable Drm Panic
2024-11-20 17:04:13 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/EnableDrmPanic
2024-11-20 17:05:04 <@siosm:matrix.org> So be transparent (hopefully not or we would not see the QR code 🙃) to us
2024-11-20 17:05:41 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 207. Tomcat 10.1.x
2024-11-20 17:05:48 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Tomcat10ChangeProposal
2024-11-20 17:05:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> We don't ship Tomcat.
2024-11-20 17:06:31 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> purple screen of death!
2024-11-20 17:06:39 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 208. Integrate FEX in Fedora Linux
2024-11-20 17:06:44 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FEX
2024-11-20 17:07:34 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i could imagine that one coming up in the tracker at some point
2024-11-20 17:07:48 <@siosm:matrix.org> We don't ship FEX. But if it's faster than QEMU on aarch64 to emulate x86-64 containers then that may be interesting
2024-11-20 17:07:49 <@jlebon:fedora.im> given that we ship qemu today for this purpose
2024-11-20 17:08:22 <@siosm:matrix.org> That would be a prime candidate for a sysexts (go hide behind a corner) 🙂
2024-11-20 17:08:31 <@siosm:matrix.org> That would be a prime candidate for a sysext (go hide behind a corner) 🙂
2024-11-20 17:08:34 <@jlebon:fedora.im> would be annoying to ship both though. i think this is probably more an argument for removing qemu :)
2024-11-20 17:08:46 <@jlebon:fedora.im> or layering, yeah
2024-11-20 17:08:47 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> is FEX better or something? 
2024-11-20 17:09:01 <@jlebon:fedora.im> it's faster apparently
2024-11-20 17:09:21 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> > QEMU is the best implementation for correctness, but it's extremely slow in comparison, making it unsuitable for a lot of practical usecases (such as gaming).
2024-11-20 17:09:23 <@siosm:matrix.org> It is getting development and optimization effort from the Asahi crowd
2024-11-20 17:09:30 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> ehh. I'm more interested in correctness TBH
2024-11-20 17:09:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> agree, for server use cases we want correctness
2024-11-20 17:10:34 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i guess it depends if the "non-correctness" is well-understood and people know what's safe to run and what isn't
2024-11-20 17:11:14 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> I say let's no-op for now and revisit if requests come in
2024-11-20 17:11:24 <@siosm:matrix.org> yes
2024-11-20 17:11:30 <@jlebon:fedora.im> let's just skip the next one and go straight to 210
2024-11-20 17:12:06 <@siosm:matrix.org> 209 PHP, we don't include it
2024-11-20 17:12:26 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 210. Distributing Kickstart Files as OCI Artifacts
2024-11-20 17:12:34 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KickstartOciArtifacts
2024-11-20 17:13:05 <@siosm:matrix.org> This does not impact us
2024-11-20 17:13:09 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> honestly I don't really get it
2024-11-20 17:13:18 <@siosm:matrix.org> We could do things related to that but it's not a requirement
2024-11-20 17:14:19 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 209. PHP 8.4
2024-11-20 17:14:25 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/php84
2024-11-20 17:14:32 <@siosm:matrix.org> We don't ship PHP (for the notes)
2024-11-20 17:14:44 <@siosm:matrix.org> !info 211. Enabling composefs by default for Atomic Desktops
2024-11-20 17:14:50 <@siosm:matrix.org> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ComposefsAtomicDesktops
2024-11-20 17:15:00 <@siosm:matrix.org> This is for the Atomic Desktops and we already did this in FCOS.
2024-11-20 17:15:04 <@siosm:matrix.org> So nothing else to do
2024-11-20 17:15:12 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> 🎉
2024-11-20 17:15:18 <@siosm:matrix.org> Alright, we're at the end. Anything else?
2024-11-20 17:15:37 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> marmijo: how do you want to handle updates with results from this meeting? 
2024-11-20 17:15:42 <@siosm:matrix.org> Which issue of the two other ones should we talk about in the 10 minutes remaining?
2024-11-20 17:15:46 <@jlebon:fedora.im> yeah, not sure either. i guess the idea is about making distribution easier. if tooling around this picks up, there could be asks to deliver our live artifacts via OCI as well. anyway, obviously something that's happening in parallel to just be aware of for now
2024-11-20 17:16:33 <@marmijo:fedora.im> dustymabe: I dont think there are any new trackers to open, so I'll update the tracker issue with the results. 
2024-11-20 17:16:42 <@marmijo:fedora.im> dustymabe: I dont think there are any new trackers to open, so I'll update the changes tracker issue with the results.
2024-11-20 17:17:24 <@jlebon:fedora.im> i think basically it's about improving the ergonomics around finding live artifacts. but for FCOS, we did that with the stream metadata, which has public APIs and e.g. go/rust bindings etc...
2024-11-20 17:17:36 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> marmijo: thank you for picking this up and keeping things up to date over in https://pagure.io/fork/dustymabe/fedora-pgm/pgm_scripts/commits/dusty-fcos-changes 
2024-11-20 17:17:54 <@marmijo:fedora.im> of course!
2024-11-20 17:18:25 <@siosm:matrix.org> Should we move that repo to the coreos org to make it more visible? (not urgent, can happen later)
2024-11-20 17:19:01 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> :) - you mean from pagure to github? 
2024-11-20 17:19:02 <@siosm:matrix.org> Time is getting short so I'll move to open floor soon.
2024-11-20 17:19:11 <@siosm:matrix.org> yeah :)
2024-11-20 17:19:27 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> maybe.. it's kind of a fork of an unrelated repo, though
2024-11-20 17:19:57 <@siosm:matrix.org> alright, does not have to happen. We'll revisit that once pagure goes away (hopefully at some point)
2024-11-20 17:20:48 <@siosm:matrix.org> !topic Open Floor
2024-11-20 17:21:30 <@siosm:matrix.org> Thanks to everybody that did the F41 releases! Looks like a smooth update :) (We did not get a lot of issues from what I could see :) )
2024-11-20 17:22:53 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Yep. went pretty smooth. I'd say the biggest problem was not booting on VMWare, but we fixed that in the beta cycle and it never shipped to `testing`/`stable` 
2024-11-20 17:22:53 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> Hey all ! Just chiming to say I have an eye on the dracut/kdump stuff that have been discussed recently and if it does not become urgent I will pick that up when I am back
2024-11-20 17:23:10 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> Thanks jbtrystram 
2024-11-20 17:23:27 <@jlebon:fedora.im> jbtrystram: hope things are going well!
2024-11-20 17:25:56 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> Jonathan Lebon thanks for asking :) not 100% smooth sailing but nothing too extraordinary 
2024-11-20 17:27:25 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> I wanted to attend community meetings but it's right at the time of day when we need all hands on deck. Not sure I'll be able to attend them for a while to be honest 
2024-11-20 17:27:48 <@dustymabe:matrix.org> don't worry about it - go where needed :) 
2024-11-20 17:28:01 <@jbtrystram:matrix.org> Thanks everyone for f41! 
2024-11-20 17:29:28 <@siosm:matrix.org> baby dinner time! :)
2024-11-20 17:29:53 <@siosm:matrix.org> Alright, closing in 1 min :)
2024-11-20 17:32:12 <@siosm:matrix.org> !endmeeting