2024-04-24 14:00:47 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !startmeeting Fedora Council Meeting
2024-04-24 14:00:48 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-04-24 14:00:47 UTC
2024-04-24 14:00:48 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora Council Meeting'
2024-04-24 14:01:00 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2024-04-24 14:01:03 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-24 14:01:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aoife Moloney (amoloney)
2024-04-24 14:01:39 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-24 14:01:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Justin W. Flory (jflory7) - he / him / his
2024-04-24 14:01:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Hello from somewhere on the US eastern seaboard :)
2024-04-24 14:02:00 <@mattdm:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-24 14:02:02 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Matthew Miller (mattdm) - he / him / his
2024-04-24 14:02:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Lynchburg, Virginia, apparently.
2024-04-24 14:03:29 <@rwright:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-24 14:03:30 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robert Wright (rwright) - he / him / his
2024-04-24 14:03:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !group members council
2024-04-24 14:03:51 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Members of council: Aoife Moloney, bt0dotninja, David Cantrell, FAS Fernando F. Mancera, Justin W. Flory, Jona Azizaj, Matthew Miller, Robert Wright, smeragoel, Sumantro Mukherjee, Akashdeep Dhar
2024-04-24 14:03:55 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Jona Azizaj (she/her): bt0dotninja dcantrell ffmancera Sumantro Mukherjee Akashdeep Dhar 
2024-04-24 14:04:02 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> !hello
2024-04-24 14:04:03 <@mattdm:fedora.im> hello everyone!
2024-04-24 14:04:04 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Akashdeep Dhar (t0xic0der) - he / him / his
2024-04-24 14:04:20 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I can mark Akash off my list :) 
2024-04-24 14:04:42 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Please don't (Or do - what's the list about anyway?)
2024-04-24 14:04:44 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Hopefully the others are en route
2024-04-24 14:04:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Being here :)
2024-04-24 14:04:58 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Ahh I see ;P
2024-04-24 14:05:20 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Hope everyone is having a good week so far :)
2024-04-24 14:05:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> It is a big week!
2024-04-24 14:05:26 <@jflory7:fedora.im> F40 w00t! 🎉
2024-04-24 14:05:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 🎆
2024-04-24 14:05:55 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Release day and release week and release month too because why stop celebrating... 🎉
2024-04-24 14:06:12 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The party will go on to May :)
2024-04-24 14:06:17 <@amoloney:fedora.im> And because there is no rest for the wicked, Elections are on!
2024-04-24 14:06:33 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> I am around now! 
2024-04-24 14:06:34 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-24 14:06:36 <@zodbot:fedora.im> FAS Fernando F. Mancera (ffmancera) - he / him / his
2024-04-24 14:06:39 <@mattdm:fedora.im> also no rest for the good. :)
2024-04-24 14:06:48 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Wicked _awesome_ people.
2024-04-24 14:07:10 <@amoloney:fedora.im> nope, there is no rest at all, for anyone - you must schedule your rest .😅
2024-04-24 14:07:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> That might be a good reminder that I am on PTO tomorrow :)
2024-04-24 14:07:57 <@amoloney:fedora.im> right while the rest of our esteemed council members trickle in, I will start announcing our ... announcements
2024-04-24 14:08:19 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info  Fedora Week of Diversity runs from June 17th to 22nd, 2024, featuring a series of interviews with community members sharing their Fedora stories. Additionally, we will host a virtual event on June 21st – 22nd, featuring talks, panel discussions and social activities.

CFP is already open Fedora Week of Diversity 2024 :: pretalx and everyone is welcome to apply by May 11.

This year’s theme for Fedora Week of Diversity is “Empowering Diversity, Enriching Communities.

2024-04-24 14:08:30 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Announcements
2024-04-24 14:08:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info Elections are now open! The Nomination period has begun for FESCo, Mindshare, Council and EPEL Steering Committee seats. Visit the Elections documentation for more information and the elections schedule for key dates.
2024-04-24 14:09:02 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info Fedora 40 is now available! https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/releases/f40/
2024-04-24 14:09:48 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Next, we will move to items in progress for a status check
2024-04-24 14:09:59 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Status Check for items in progress
2024-04-24 14:10:07 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info Council Hackfest Write ups
2024-04-24 14:10:26 <@amoloney:fedora.im> How are these progressing? I believe we are getting through them nicely
2024-04-24 14:10:56 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !topic Status checks
2024-04-24 14:11:07 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Oops, my message sent with a huge delay 🫣
2024-04-24 14:11:13 <@amoloney:fedora.im> its ok I got this :)
2024-04-24 14:11:22 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !link https://docs.google.com/document/d/18h6nna1vyFLM_TAvi-BoeTNIllEqj0yofZnF4REpfxE/edit?usp=sharing
2024-04-24 14:11:36 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Ack, will leave it to you :)
2024-04-24 14:11:36 <@amoloney:fedora.im> this is the shared doc we have been using for edits
2024-04-24 14:11:41 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I am working on the IRC/Matrix one this week. No draft yet but on my list.
2024-04-24 14:11:58 <@amoloney:fedora.im> ack
2024-04-24 14:12:04 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Git forge is out, Elections is scheduled for tomorrow
2024-04-24 14:12:45 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Akashdeep Dhar: hows the bugzilla one coming? You had it for review, is it still in that part of the process?
2024-04-24 14:12:47 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I am working on the IRC/Matrix one this week. No draft yet but on my list. I delayed it from the original timeline with the Matrix hosting mess, but I think we have a workable resolution there now.
2024-04-24 14:12:51 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Done
2024-04-24 14:13:01 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> dcantrell and I have been through the entire doc
2024-04-24 14:13:05 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Not just the Bugzilla 
2024-04-24 14:13:13 <@mattdm:fedora.im> strategy post next part is 95% ready for next week
2024-04-24 14:13:33 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> We are collaborating on the sheet too (beginning with the topics assigned to me first, of course)
2024-04-24 14:13:40 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> I have started to work on the Mentored Projects Initiative post too
2024-04-24 14:13:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Oh, Matthew and I talked about breaking these up into smaller pieces
2024-04-24 14:14:00 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Staeting with the guiding star, then post for each Foundatipn
2024-04-24 14:14:12 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Starting with the guiding star, then an article for each Foundatipn
2024-04-24 14:14:20 <@mattdm:fedora.im> yeah it was getting huge anyway and this will make it easier
2024-04-24 14:14:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Starting with the guiding star, then an article for each Foundation
2024-04-24 14:14:34 <@mattdm:fedora.im> will post parts for council edit/review next week too
2024-04-24 14:14:52 <@mattdm:fedora.im> in the end we'll put it all togheter into one doc in the project/council docs space
2024-04-24 14:16:26 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info The git forge evaluation is published, Strategy Update Pt.1 is published, Elections is due to be published tomorrow, Bugzilla is ready to be published, Mentored Projects is in progress, Stratrgy Update Pt.3 is in progress and IRC/Matrix will be started soon. We are over halfway to completing the hackfest write ups
2024-04-24 14:16:35 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Thanks everyone for that!
2024-04-24 14:17:12 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Status Check in
2024-04-24 14:17:26 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info Matrix hosted
2024-04-24 14:17:45 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Justin W. Flory (he/him): any updates for this one?
2024-04-24 14:17:54 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Yes.
2024-04-24 14:18:10 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !link for ref https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/487
2024-04-24 14:19:07 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info We added 200 seats to our hosted EMS homeserver. This sustains us until August, when the contract is up for renewal. Ongoing conversations are seeing if EMS will renegotiate with us if we look at termination, and if not, then JWF is pursuing simultaneous conversations with Red Hat Open Source Program Office and Fedora Infra/CPE on self-hosting options.
2024-04-24 14:19:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Nothing else right now, and I don't have anything that needs feedback for now.
2024-04-24 14:19:39 <@jflory7:fedora.im> There was a lot of community discussion and feedback, which was really helpful to determine the right path forward for us.
2024-04-24 14:19:40 <@jflory7:fedora.im> <eof>
2024-04-24 14:19:47 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Thank you very much for the update :)
2024-04-24 14:20:11 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic status check in - git forge evaluation
2024-04-24 14:20:22 <@amoloney:fedora.im> That ones me .. :/
2024-04-24 14:22:30 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info amoloney has a ticket open with Fedora council to review initial set of Stakeholders and Decision Makers for the evaluation process https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/488 and is working with jednorozec from the CPE team to refine a timeline and milestones for the investigation to work against. The effort will be mainly CPE -led, with @amoloney supporting administratively
2024-04-24 14:23:23 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Thats all the things checked in on afaik. If there are other things that need status check ins, email them to me please on our email thread so I can add them to the agenda
2024-04-24 14:23:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Discussions
2024-04-24 14:23:50 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Trademark approval request
2024-04-24 14:23:58 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/491
2024-04-24 14:25:10 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I think it should be "Fedora Miracle Desktop" or something. But other than that, +1
2024-04-24 14:26:18 <@jflory7:fedora.im> My hope was Miracle-WM or else "Fedora Miracle" is going to become a social media meme. Not sure if a good or bad meme.
2024-04-24 14:26:21 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I have some comments on the change proposal, but that's for latter
2024-04-24 14:26:41 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Also, it might be more clear that we are not talking about 🌭
2024-04-24 14:27:19 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Nitpicks aside, +1 on the general request, I want to make it work :)
2024-04-24 14:27:22 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I'm not sure if "Miracle WM" is descriptive enough
2024-04-24 14:27:32 <@jflory7:fedora.im> For people who use WMs, they will key in on it
2024-04-24 14:27:35 <@mattdm:fedora.im> ALthough I guess tiling wm people might argue that it's _not_ a "desktop" metaphor
2024-04-24 14:28:09 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I like calling out a WM as a WM, because it is definitely not the traditional desktop experience
2024-04-24 14:28:26 <@mattdm:fedora.im> miracle-wm does seem to be the upstream name
2024-04-24 14:28:41 <@mattdm:fedora.im> If the SIG is okay with that, wfm
2024-04-24 14:28:47 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Whats a WM?
2024-04-24 14:29:00 <@mattdm:fedora.im> And I'm a _little_ serious about suggesting that they include beefy somewhere in the visual design :)
2024-04-24 14:29:07 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> 😂
2024-04-24 14:29:12 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Exactly!
2024-04-24 14:29:17 <@mattdm:fedora.im> "Window Manager"
2024-04-24 14:29:23 <@amoloney:fedora.im> oooh
2024-04-24 14:29:30 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> it's a thing hyper nerds use to make themselves feel like they're being more productive.


/me looks in the mirror
2024-04-24 14:29:38 <@mattdm:fedora.im> It's part of the graphical user interface stack that manages how application windows appear on the screen.
2024-04-24 14:29:40 <@amoloney:fedora.im> thank you, the abbreviations can throw me sometimes
2024-04-24 14:29:47 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Where they go, how they are decorated, etc.
2024-04-24 14:30:00 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Yeah, Neil is right, it is very specific jargon
2024-04-24 14:30:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Most often, they don't have a "batteries included" approach and a user has to do a lot more to get things that a DE (desktop environment) will offer
2024-04-24 14:30:31 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Full desktop environments like GNOME and KDE _also_ have window managers, but they're just part of the whole
2024-04-24 14:30:47 <@mattdm:fedora.im> (They are "mutter" and "kwin", respectively, ftr)
2024-04-24 14:31:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Some Spins make it easier with some integration, but a lot of integration work is up to the user. Like how will you handle Bluetooth connections, connect to WiFi or a VPN, edit your display settings, etc.
2024-04-24 14:31:19 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Ack. So can we get a vote to approve the trademark? Or do we want to go back to the requestor with some requirements we have before we approve it?
2024-04-24 14:31:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Given this, this is the way I lean :)
2024-04-24 14:31:40 <@mattdm:fedora.im> What I particularly like here is that the primary developer is planning to do this in Fedora.
2024-04-24 14:31:48 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I am +1 for Fedora Miracle-WM Spin
2024-04-24 14:32:06 <@mattdm:fedora.im> _This is what I've been hoping for for years_ -- instead of everyone with a new idea for a desktop environment _making their whole own distro_, we've got a place for them.
2024-04-24 14:32:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think we will still have to do the legal process before we can officially approve it, but we want to make sure the name we send to legal is the same name that the team wants
2024-04-24 14:32:41 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I'm +1 for "Fedora Miracle-WM", "Fedora Miracle WM", or any other "Fedora Miracle [reasonable descriptive word]"
2024-04-24 14:32:50 <@amoloney:fedora.im> exactly 💯
2024-04-24 14:33:17 <@amoloney:fedora.im> other council members? How do you feel about this request?
2024-04-24 14:33:31 <@rwright:fedora.im> +1, no preference here.
2024-04-24 14:33:52 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Or the request of the council to ask the SIG to rename to Fedora Miracle-VM?
2024-04-24 14:34:55 <@amoloney:fedora.im> if no objections, I will try summarize and move to our next item :)
2024-04-24 14:35:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> +1
2024-04-24 14:36:11 <@bt0dotninja:fedora.im> +1 too, hello 
2024-04-24 14:37:05 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !agreed The council would like to see this trademark request be renamed from Fedora Miracle Spin to Fedora Miracle-VM Spin (or other descriptive term) before submitting the request to legal, but are in favour of the request as a whole. If the name can be altered, this request will be accepted by the council and continue on through the process.
2024-04-24 14:37:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic - Stakeholder and Decision Maker list
2024-04-24 14:37:46 <@amoloney:fedora.im> lets make this quick please, I want to give more time to the AI discussion
2024-04-24 14:38:14 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I have created a list of stakeholders and decision makers for the git forge evaluation https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/488
2024-04-24 14:38:30 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Im certain Ive missed groups, so I need your help reviewing them
2024-04-24 14:38:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Substitute WM for VM, but yeah, sounds good to me :)
2024-04-24 14:38:54 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Note: Decision Makers *are* stakeholders too and I will make sure to call that out more explicitly
2024-04-24 14:39:23 <@rwright:fedora.im> Jona had asked to include DEI as a stakeholder I believe.
2024-04-24 14:39:50 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Thank you Robert! will add that one in
2024-04-24 14:39:53 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is the ask for the ticket?
2024-04-24 14:40:10 <@amoloney:fedora.im> it is
2024-04-24 14:40:29 <@amoloney:fedora.im> and if there are any questions about the ticket, please ask them now
2024-04-24 14:40:31 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Cool. I can take a look after the meeting. I'll want to take some time to read the proposal and also think of other possible stakeholders.
2024-04-24 14:40:43 <@amoloney:fedora.im> thank you!
2024-04-24 14:40:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I likely need a bit more time to review and the AI discussion is more interesting to me
2024-04-24 14:41:02 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I have the tab open, will look at the ticket today
2024-04-24 14:41:29 <@jflory7:fedora.im> (I wish the Discourse bot still commented on the Pagure ticket with the Discussion URL, it is hard to keep tabs of the discussions)
2024-04-24 14:41:43 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I need this done preferrably by next week please :()
2024-04-24 14:41:58 <@jflory7:fedora.im> (I wish the Discourse bot still commented on the Pagure ticket with the Discussion URL, it is hard to keep tabs of the discussions—mattdm, maybe you know the behind the scenes)
2024-04-24 14:42:05 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !agreed The council will review the ticket for stakeholders & decision makers and add comments for any groups that may have been accidentally omitted.  The deadline for the review is April 30th.
2024-04-24 14:42:18 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Um, I'll look at what's broken
2024-04-24 14:42:39 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !Topic Discuss & Decide on a Fedora Council Policy on the use of AI-based tooling for contributions
2024-04-24 14:42:47 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/486
2024-04-24 14:43:04 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 👀
2024-04-24 14:43:18 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Akashdeep Dhar: want to start the ball rolling? :)
2024-04-24 14:44:15 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is also likely the same conversation that dcantrell kicked off
2024-04-24 14:44:34 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Sure
2024-04-24 14:44:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> From the ticket, this seems like the ask:

> As a member of the Fedora Council, I ask that we discuss and decide on a policy for the use of AI-based tooling for making contributions. These could include but are not restricted to things like the nature of AI-based toolings used, the ways that one could maintain contribution quality, the things contributors need to be wary of while making a choice and the implications of copyright and trademark laws when a certain such tool is employed.
2024-04-24 14:44:46 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I know dcantrell has suggested a policy to specifically ban them for contributions.
2024-04-24 14:44:48 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> I will let Justin W. Flory (he/him) go first
2024-04-24 14:45:13 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I don't know if I have a firm proposal either, I am curious to get more eyes on this topic.
2024-04-24 14:45:17 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I guess my wish would be this:
2024-04-24 14:45:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 1. A statement that affirms that we believe AI tools for contributions are risky and should be avoided.
2. Do not make a policy.
2024-04-24 14:46:06 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I am not sure I am totally comfortable with #1, but I am looking in a mindshare lens at it, not an engineering lens
2024-04-24 14:46:17 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Lots of people use generative AI as an assist for English, for example
2024-04-24 14:46:30 <@rwright:fedora.im> The ticket is really two asks as well: "Our stance on Contributions being used in an AI model" and the "usage of AI models to create and contribute"?
2024-04-24 14:46:33 <@jflory7:fedora.im> There are good and bad ways of doing that. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as the old expression goes
2024-04-24 14:46:34 <@mattdm:fedora.im> My hot take: content _primarily generated by LLMs should be avoided. Content where LLMs are used for assistance can be okay (assuming it would _otherwise_ be okay).
2024-04-24 14:46:46 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Negative with 1 as well
Unless at least we state that we are investigating how we can make it easier or less riskier for folks to use assistive AI technologies for making their contributions
2024-04-24 14:46:49 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I _strongly_ think we should use more precise terminology than AI
2024-04-24 14:46:54 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Basically, this
2024-04-24 14:47:20 <@bt0dotninja:fedora.im> Always human-reviewed 
2024-04-24 14:47:55 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Despite what a weird cranky person arguing with me about this on mastodon says, there's a significant difference between LLM text-generation and, say, text-to-speech or speech-to-text.
2024-04-24 14:47:57 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is what I actually would want to underline most of all
2024-04-24 14:48:05 <@bt0dotninja:fedora.im> Using it as a tool, not as a contributor substitute 
2024-04-24 14:48:21 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I'm also really wary about the "license-washing" aspect of code-generation and image-generation AI.
2024-04-24 14:48:25 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> During the review period of Outreachy, ffmancera's project and our project was able to figure out the contributions that we made using generative AI so I do think that we are more than equipped to figure out what is and what is not an AI-assisted contribution
2024-04-24 14:49:03 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I think we should ask that image generation only use "ethically sourced" data -- public domain or otherwise explicitly licensed for use without specific attribution.
2024-04-24 14:49:05 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I would almost _rather_ put out a statement about how we deal with generative AI over discouraging it. Like, how the approach and community model we have in Fedora is naturally resistant to poor-quality genAI contributions, because it would be the same as low-quality contributions _without_ genAI
2024-04-24 14:49:18 <@jflory7:fedora.im> It also gives us a more positive bend to encourage people toward
2024-04-24 14:50:00 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Here's another question, though: what do we do about _upstreams_ using generative AI? I don't think we can police that .
2024-04-24 14:50:20 <@mattdm:fedora.im> This could be code generation, but say for example some project has a logo they made with midjourney.
2024-04-24 14:50:27 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Exactly, so in a statement, I would like us to talk about the maintainer model and how our contributors are always encouraged to make sure what we ship in Fedora aligns with our Freedom Foundation
2024-04-24 14:51:17 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Kinda makes me want to go back to the "what is contributor" problem - If we can define what a contribution looks like then we can also help define to what extent can someone use assistive AI to make those happen
2024-04-24 14:51:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> As far as integration in Fedora goes, I am fine leaving enough alone.
2024-04-24 14:51:58 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I think the definition I came up with actually works really well here
2024-04-24 14:51:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Is it a useful activity for us to figure out to what extent a contribution is supported by generative AI?
2024-04-24 14:52:24 <@mattdm:fedora.im> No. That seems like a time-suck.
2024-04-24 14:53:02 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> I personally think that a statement on keeping an eye out for contributions of poor quality made with AI should be more than enough. Flagging of those contributions can help us decide what we should be wary against but doing this dedicated-ly seems to be a waste of time.
2024-04-24 14:53:38 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Lets proceed with using that as a base to define to what extent of the usage of assistive AI is "okay" by us
2024-04-24 14:53:48 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> For this statement
2024-04-24 14:53:59 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Seems actionable and we do seem to have a starting point
2024-04-24 14:54:15 <@bt0dotninja:fedora.im> Yep
2024-04-24 14:54:29 <@amoloney:fedora.im> We seem to be aligning here, can we get an agreement? And maybe an owner and action item?
2024-04-24 14:54:47 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I can give a go at writing a `!proposed`
2024-04-24 14:54:54 <@amoloney:fedora.im> yes please :)
2024-04-24 14:55:02 <@amoloney:fedora.im> this goes a bit outside my verbage :)
2024-04-24 14:55:04 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> I can take this. 

Please link me to the definition of "contribution/contributor" definition article.
2024-04-24 14:55:10 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Or Justin W. Flory (he/him) 
2024-04-24 14:55:19 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Fine with anything
2024-04-24 14:55:31 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Justin W. Flory (he/him):  can you summarise? And Akashdeep Dhar can you take the action & ownership?
2024-04-24 14:55:40 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Contributor Definition
A Fedora Project contributor is anyone who:
Undertakes activities
which sustain or advance the project towards our mission and vision
intentionally as part of the Project,
and as part of our community in line with our shared values.

(And “a contribution”, then, is any product of such activities.)

Explanation:
It has to be, you know, actually doing something. And, I like this to be plural — one drive-through might be a contribution, but to be (present tense) a contributor, it should be an ongoing thing.
And not doing just anything, but something that goes in the direction our project is all about.
An activity which is incidentally or accidentally a benefit to Fedora doesn’t count.
We’re not just a free-and-open-source-software-licensed project, but an intentional community with shared foundations.

2024-04-24 14:55:43 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Works for me
2024-04-24 14:55:52 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> mattdm++ :)
2024-04-24 14:55:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> t0xic0der gave a cookie to mattdm. They now have 158 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle
2024-04-24 14:55:58 <@mattdm:fedora.im> this part of next week's article
2024-04-24 14:56:09 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !proposed We do not want to write a policy about generative AI contributions. We do not want to create a policy about generative AI contributions in upstream projects. We want to write a statement about generative AI use in contributions in Fedora. The statement describes why the maintainer model in Fedora is important and why we care about getting the Freedom Foundation right.
2024-04-24 14:56:17 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ^^ Does this summarize?
2024-04-24 14:56:32 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Good enough for me
2024-04-24 14:56:39 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I think some key words here: "sustains or advances", " "intentionally", and "shared values".
2024-04-24 14:57:26 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I don't understand the first line
2024-04-24 14:57:30 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Sentence.
2024-04-24 14:57:33 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Akashdeep Dhar: If you took the statement writing here, I think those two pillars are the topics of focus: maintainer model, Freedom Foundation (i.e. images and creative works)
2024-04-24 14:57:39 <@mattdm:fedora.im> "We do not want to write a policy about generative AI contributions."
2024-04-24 14:57:56 <@jflory7:fedora.im> A policy like David suggested where the Council bans contributions with genAI
2024-04-24 14:58:05 <@mattdm:fedora.im> IS THIS GENERATED BY AI?
2024-04-24 14:58:17 <@bt0dotninja:fedora.im> :p
2024-04-24 14:58:18 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> No
2024-04-24 14:58:27 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> We don't have enough information on you to feed to an LLM
2024-04-24 14:58:31 <@amoloney:fedora.im> 2 mins folks ⏰
2024-04-24 14:58:43 <@jflory7:fedora.im> +1/+0/-1 folks?
2024-04-24 14:58:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !group members council
2024-04-24 14:58:50 <@amoloney:fedora.im> +1
2024-04-24 14:58:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Members of council: Aoife Moloney, bt0dotninja, David Cantrell, FAS Fernando F. Mancera, Justin W. Flory, Jona Azizaj, Matthew Miller, Robert Wright, smeragoel, Sumantro Mukherjee, Akashdeep Dhar
2024-04-24 14:58:53 <@jflory7:fedora.im> +1
2024-04-24 14:58:55 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Explicit +1
2024-04-24 14:59:02 <@bt0dotninja:fedora.im> +1
2024-04-24 14:59:04 <@rwright:fedora.im> +1
2024-04-24 14:59:14 <@mattdm:fedora.im> -1
2024-04-24 14:59:30 <@mattdm:fedora.im> hold on a second I'm writing a revision
2024-04-24 14:59:33 <@farribeiro:matrix.org> !hi
2024-04-24 14:59:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fábio Ribeiro (farribeiro) - he / him / his
2024-04-24 14:59:39 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I have to go to another meeting 😕
2024-04-24 14:59:46 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We likely need a full meeting for this topic
2024-04-24 14:59:47 <@jflory7:fedora.im> It is huge
2024-04-24 14:59:52 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Justin W. Flory (he/him): just catch up with the logs 
2024-04-24 14:59:57 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Dontcha worry! 
2024-04-24 15:00:00 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Let's document the `!proposed` and revisit async on Discussion
2024-04-24 15:00:12 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> +1
2024-04-24 15:00:35 <@amoloney:fedora.im> that works for me
2024-04-24 15:00:43 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Thanks all! 
2024-04-24 15:00:59 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Aoife Moloney++ and Justin W. Flory (he/him)++ for chairing
2024-04-24 15:01:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> t0xic0der gave a cookie to amoloney. They now have 34 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle
2024-04-24 15:01:07 <@jflory7:fedora.im> No, it was all Aoife :)
2024-04-24 15:01:11 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Aoife Moloney++
2024-04-24 15:01:21 <@t0xic0der:fedora.im> Justin W. Flory (he/him)++ because fresh F40 cookies
2024-04-24 15:01:22 <@zodbot:fedora.im> jflory7 gave a cookie to amoloney. They now have 35 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle
2024-04-24 15:01:27 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !agreed The proposed statement for the AI ticket does not have consensus. A revision will be posted on discourse and/or the fedora council chat channel for further discussion & collaboration
2024-04-24 15:01:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> t0xic0der gave a cookie to jflory7. They now have 351 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 40 release cycle
2024-04-24 15:01:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !endmeeting