2025-01-15 15:01:16 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !startmeeting Fedora Council Meeting
2025-01-15 15:01:17 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-01-15 15:01:16 UTC
2025-01-15 15:01:17 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora Council Meeting'
2025-01-15 15:01:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2025-01-15 15:01:34 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 15:01:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aoife Moloney (amoloney)
2025-01-15 15:01:44 <@rwright:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 15:01:46 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Robert Wright (rwright) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 15:01:47 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 15:01:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jona Azizaj (jonatoni) - she / her / hers
2025-01-15 15:02:14 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 15:02:15 <@zodbot:fedora.im> FAS Fernando F. Mancera (ffmancera) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 15:02:16 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 15:02:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> David Cantrell (dcantrell) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 15:02:20 <@asamalik:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 15:02:21 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Adam Samalik (asamalik) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 15:02:37 <@asamalik:fedora.im> and hello to the humans also! :D 
2025-01-15 15:02:52 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I am a meat popsicle
2025-01-15 15:02:58 <@rwright:fedora.im> We welcome our bot overlords.
2025-01-15 15:03:15 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> zodbot represents our Fedora AI strategy
2025-01-15 15:03:33 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> How you dare to say hello to the humans.. now we all are going to be punished by machines...
2025-01-15 15:04:13 <@asamalik:fedora.im> yes, agree, zodbot is the best! (what do you mean I'm only trying to impress you for when you take over?!)
2025-01-15 15:04:41 <@amoloney:fedora.im> It will kill you last Adam, as you are its favourite
2025-01-15 15:04:41 <@rwright:fedora.im> zodbot would have given you a cookie just now, if it wanted us to know it was aware
2025-01-15 15:05:07 <@mattdm:fedora.im> hi!
2025-01-15 15:05:32 <@mattdm:fedora.im> element didn't want to let me in
2025-01-15 15:05:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Hello Matthew! You need to swap your !
2025-01-15 15:05:40 <@mattdm:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 15:05:41 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Matthew Miller (mattdm) - he / him / his
2025-01-15 15:05:50 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I was saying hi to the people, not the robots
2025-01-15 15:05:51 <@asamalik:fedora.im> does he? maybe that was a human greeting first! 
2025-01-15 15:06:23 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> does zodbot recognize ¡hi!
2025-01-15 15:06:43 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I would fall off the chair if Zodbot just typed 'no'
2025-01-15 15:06:53 <@asamalik:fedora.im> haha someone is practicing for the face to face!
2025-01-15 15:07:16 <@mattdm:fedora.im> okay... SO. Agenda for today?
2025-01-15 15:07:17 <@amoloney:fedora.im> speaking of f2f, let me ping Justin to see if hes around 
2025-01-15 15:07:22 <@amoloney:fedora.im> JWF (he/him): ?
2025-01-15 15:07:57 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> If you have questions about F2F I might be able to help :)
2025-01-15 15:08:16 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I was wondering what the actual hotel is we're staying in
2025-01-15 15:08:17 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I know Justin wanted to talk Flock CfP themes, but he might not be here
2025-01-15 15:08:38 <@amoloney:fedora.im> let me set the topic to f2f real quick then :)
2025-01-15 15:08:42 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I know he had a _lot_ going on yesterday, including an hvac outage
2025-01-15 15:08:48 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Council F2F 
2025-01-15 15:10:43 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Sorry, I am here now
2025-01-15 15:10:56 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Hi Justin!
2025-01-15 15:11:18 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> (please also greet our robot overlords, for the record)
2025-01-15 15:11:22 <@amoloney:fedora.im> ffmancera: JWF (he/him) can you confirm the name of the hotel for the F2F please?
2025-01-15 15:11:48 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Hotel Sevilla NH Plaze de Armas
2025-01-15 15:11:54 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I have seven rooms booked
2025-01-15 15:11:58 <@bookwar:fedora.im> !hi
2025-01-15 15:12:00 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aleksandra Fedorova (bookwar) - she / her / hers
2025-01-15 15:12:30 <@amoloney:fedora.im> That one has an airport shuttle, does it?
2025-01-15 15:13:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Not sure – I can't find it on the hotel website
2025-01-15 15:13:32 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> I am not sure if the Hotel has it but I recommend taking the Airport bus line or Uber/Cabify is going to be much cheaper probably
2025-01-15 15:13:46 <@jflory7:fedora.im> "From the airport, you can take a special airport bus line (EA) to the last stop, Avenida El Cid/Prado. Transfer to line C3 and take it to the Plaza de Armas stop. When you get off the bus, continue walking away from the river on Cristo de la Expiración and turn left at Calle Marqués de Paradas. The hotel will be on your left. Alternatively, you can take a taxi."
2025-01-15 15:14:03 <@mattdm:fedora.im> there's a huge bus station
2025-01-15 15:14:05 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Ill take a look, but I vaguely rememeber that one having either a stop for the airport bus, or a shuttle
2025-01-15 15:14:12 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> "The airport bus stops behind the hotel" is on the hotel main page
2025-01-15 15:14:20 <@amoloney:fedora.im> ah thats it :)
2025-01-15 15:14:22 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> Yep it does
2025-01-15 15:14:52 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> It is near one of the main avenues in Seville so the Hotel is really well connected with airports/bus stations and all
2025-01-15 15:15:35 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I have an action to put together an initial agenda for us, which I plan to get to you by the end of this week, but if you have any topics you want to specifically work on, please suggest them in the discussion thread https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-council-tickets-ticket-505-fedora-council-2025-hackfest/133273/2
2025-01-15 15:15:41 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> oooh, there's a pool on the roof
2025-01-15 15:16:18 <@mattdm:fedora.im> dcantrell: I've heard that one before!
2025-01-15 15:16:38 <@mattdm:fedora.im> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJK74YY-ZI
2025-01-15 15:19:10 <@asamalik:fedora.im> huh?
2025-01-15 15:19:17 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I've stopped receiving some messages I think
2025-01-15 15:19:38 <@amoloney:fedora.im> you will both be missed :( hopefully you will be back though either via the next election or as an initiative lead again, or other means!
2025-01-15 15:19:38 <@rwright:fedora.im> Our initiatives are up. :)
2025-01-15 15:19:55 <@asamalik:fedora.im> aaaaah
2025-01-15 15:20:16 <@amoloney:fedora.im> ok in the interest of time, if theres nothing more for the F2F I propose we move on to the Flock cfp
2025-01-15 15:20:36 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> As note for F2F I will be your local reference
2025-01-15 15:20:42 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !action @amoloney to send an initial draft of council f2f to council members by end of the week
2025-01-15 15:20:47 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> Please ask me anything you need, I am here to help :)
2025-01-15 15:21:13 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info The hotel is the NH Plaza De Armas, Sevilla
2025-01-15 15:21:26 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info ffmancera is our local contact
2025-01-15 15:21:38 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Flock 2025 CfP
2025-01-15 15:21:48 <@amoloney:fedora.im> JWF (he/him): do you want to take this one?
2025-01-15 15:22:46 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Sure!
2025-01-15 15:22:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/518
2025-01-15 15:23:12 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The summary is to identify a short list of 3-5 themes or key technology focuses for the Fedora community submitting content to the Flock 2025 conference CFP.
2025-01-15 15:23:27 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Some important considerations about this year's themes:
2025-01-15 15:23:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Day 1 and Day 2 afternoons will be configured for three separate breakout rooms. 
2025-01-15 15:23:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Day 3 will be configured for the full day as three separate breakout rooms.
2025-01-15 15:23:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * The daily schedule will end one hour earlier, from 6 PM to 5 PM. 
2025-01-15 15:23:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Flock 2025 will be one less day than 2024, going from four days to three days. 
2025-01-15 15:23:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Day 1 and Day 2 mornings will be a single track, i.e. no other simultaneous content will be scheduled. 
2025-01-15 15:24:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 
2025-01-15 15:24:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Find it, use it, change it: Linux accessibility (Fedora Docs, Fedora Linux, release engineering tools).
2025-01-15 15:24:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Be a mentor, have a mentor: Empower a culture of mentoring in Fedora and scale it.
2025-01-15 15:24:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Release stories: Fedora releases should have a story behind changes in each release.
2025-01-15 15:24:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Open collaboration: More partnership with peer communities and upstream projects.
2025-01-15 15:24:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> My v0.1 proposal for themes could be this. Add to it or revise it. 😃 This is some of the existing messaging we provide to Fedora Ambassadors to talk about the Fedora 2028 Strategy:
2025-01-15 15:24:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But if I could add something else, maybe like:
2025-01-15 15:24:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 
2025-01-15 15:24:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Just some ideas…
2025-01-15 15:24:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 
2025-01-15 15:24:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Community sustainability (sessions that encourage/focus on governance sustainability and team succession planning?)
2025-01-15 15:24:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> * Emerging Technologies (RISC-V, AI/ML, eBPF?)
2025-01-15 15:24:55 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Thoughts?
2025-01-15 15:25:35 <@rwright:fedora.im> A technology focused track might be interesting to share some of what people are working on and playing with Fedora with. I bet there's a lot of community interest in that.
2025-01-15 15:25:44 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I personally love the open collaboration theme, especially with Forgejo and Konflux on the 2025 horizon
2025-01-15 15:25:59 <@amoloney:fedora.im> oooh yeah I like that one too!
2025-01-15 15:26:01 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Agreed although it needs to be narrowed down
2025-01-15 15:26:06 <@amoloney:fedora.im> we have a lot of cool spins now wth fedora
2025-01-15 15:26:13 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I think we should do something about new gitforge, new workflows
2025-01-15 15:26:29 <@jflory7:fedora.im> A theme for contributor tooling?
2025-01-15 15:26:39 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> tied to that it might be useful to actually have sessions explaining to people how to get started contributing to Fedora
2025-01-15 15:26:54 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> we never really seem to do that.  Flock and past conferences are generally always for the long seasoned Fedora people
2025-01-15 15:27:08 <@bookwar:fedora.im>  I would try to separate talks by expectations for the audience
2025-01-15 15:27:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> That was a feedback we heard in the 2024 survey too
2025-01-15 15:27:20 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> but we could have sessions that explain how we do things and how to get started, but assume you are not a novice.  for example, the Debian dev who wants to start contributing to Fedora
2025-01-15 15:27:30 <@amoloney:fedora.im> We could have a 'contributor' theme where that has space for tooling, onboarding (getting started), best practices, et
2025-01-15 15:27:30 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> Sessions about Fedora governance might be useful. It is hard to understand all the parts of Fedora and what are their "duties"
2025-01-15 15:27:34 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Yeah. I'd hoped we could have a day dedicated to that this time, but the budget doesn't allow it
2025-01-15 15:27:43 <@bookwar:fedora.im> For GitForge for example I would love to see a bit more advanced discussion on the work items rather than introduction for newcomers
2025-01-15 15:27:55 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> yeah, I like that.  I think there is a place for mentoring here.  mentoring new contributors, helping onboard, etc
2025-01-15 15:27:59 <@mattdm:fedora.im> (dedicated to new contributors)
2025-01-15 15:28:15 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I think it needs to be more narrow though. Ideally, all the themes reflect us pushing more for contributor-centered topics. We need to push away from user-centered content for Flock and instead, defer that sort of content to DevConf CZ
2025-01-15 15:28:34 <@mattdm:fedora.im> The format this year will cut the number of sessions drastically.
2025-01-15 15:28:53 <@amoloney:fedora.im> yeah ok, thats very true
2025-01-15 15:29:23 <@mattdm:fedora.im> do we have a chance of having a "contribute to Fedora" track at devconf?
2025-01-15 15:29:31 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Probably no
2025-01-15 15:29:33 <@asamalik:fedora.im> Talks about how tooling works would show how contributing works, and could also open a discussion about how to make it better, how the new git forge fits in, etc. 
2025-01-15 15:29:36 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I _really_ do not love how these conferences are going to compete.
2025-01-15 15:29:39 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Better fits into the Linux track
2025-01-15 15:30:11 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Let's see how it goes this year and then revisit how we want to do it in 2026…
2025-01-15 15:30:13 <@bookwar:fedora.im> I would say "Onboarding for complete newbies" is a also topic for release parties. For Flock it should be something on cross-team collaboration and growing into step 2, not the initial step 1.
2025-01-15 15:30:24 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I will agree to not complain further :)
2025-01-15 15:30:40 <@amoloney:fedora.im> could we try to push for more workshops?
2025-01-15 15:30:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is a long-time desire for me
2025-01-15 15:31:12 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I tend to agree, although some sort of beginner focus is important for Flock, since we are not doing release parties presently
2025-01-15 15:31:14 <@jflory7:fedora.im> At least, not virally
2025-01-15 15:31:28 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> The problem for workshops is that they require a bigger time slot and also extra effort from the person leading it
2025-01-15 15:31:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Remember to keep these dynamics in mind for how we push for themes
2025-01-15 15:32:00 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Let me try to summarize what I am hearing into a strawman proposal
2025-01-15 15:32:21 <@asamalik:fedora.im> personally, I almost never go to workshops because they're long and the conferences are short, and I'm there to meet people in person primarily
2025-01-15 15:33:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 
2025-01-15 15:33:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> - Emerging Tech: New, fancy technologies that we want to discuss more in the releases ahead (RISC-V, AI/ML, your idea here)
2025-01-15 15:33:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> - New contributors: Workshops focused on getting new contributors engaged with the Fedora community and getting hands-on with some topic for a beginner focus
2025-01-15 15:33:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> - Contributor tooling: Presentations and workshops that are about the tools and methods we use to build and collaborate on Fedora, such as git forge, bug reporting tools, communication platforms, and program management
2025-01-15 15:33:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> ## Flock 2025 CFP themes, v0.2
2025-01-15 15:34:19 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I like iut
2025-01-15 15:34:23 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I like it
2025-01-15 15:34:48 <@amoloney:fedora.im> its missing *something* .... but I dont know what
2025-01-15 15:35:00 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We have talked a long time about Flock being more about "doing" things than passive listening, but I also hear you that hallway track is a big plus for people
2025-01-15 15:35:06 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is why we are drastically reducing the overall content
2025-01-15 15:35:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 2024 was content overload, that was a major theme we heard from the survey
2025-01-15 15:35:43 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I think these are good, but need to be made more exciting. Like, not just "contributor tooling", but "reinventing contributor collaboration"
2025-01-15 15:35:51 <@rwright:fedora.im> New Contributors overlapping with Contributor Tooling may be tricky - the people who will do those talks for New folks will want to be in the Tooling panels.
2025-01-15 15:36:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Start basic now, more exciting later :)
2025-01-15 15:36:09 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I'll feed it to AI to make it interesting :P
2025-01-15 15:36:20 <@asamalik:fedora.im> what if we schedule a few 30 min blocks of no talks to make people talk to each other? (I wanted to say a longer lunch break, but that could mean groups of friends leave for a longer lunch)
2025-01-15 15:36:28 <@mattdm:fedora.im> JWF (he/him): Is there a possibility for a closing read-out plenary on day 3 or are we locked to the break-out format?
2025-01-15 15:36:43 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Hmm, good question, I can ask, but I suspect likely locked in
2025-01-15 15:36:51 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I would also like to do the lean coffee thing better. It is a structured hallway track, basically.
2025-01-15 15:37:06 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Like the coffee breaks we did last year? Or different?
2025-01-15 15:37:07 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I think we could definitely incorporate this into the schedule when were at that point, its a good idea
2025-01-15 15:37:08 <@asamalik:fedora.im> although we'll have coffee breaks I guess 
2025-01-15 15:37:14 <@amoloney:fedora.im> but for now....themes
2025-01-15 15:37:24 <@bookwar:fedora.im> I like it. Though again I suggest to consider "new contributors" as contributors who have passed further than initial "forum is here, chat is there, SIGs are there" onboarding.
2025-01-15 15:37:31 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> we need workshops and the hallway track feel meaningful and not bring on FOMO syndrome
2025-01-15 15:37:49 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is a good point, maybe we can narrow it down further, or be intentional about avoiding schedule overlaps
2025-01-15 15:38:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Since there is less programming, there should also be less overlaps
2025-01-15 15:38:08 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The schedule is going to be competitive this year
2025-01-15 15:38:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Specifically I want workshops for the new contributor track, because I want people to get hands-on with something and to do something
2025-01-15 15:38:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The Flock 2015 wiki editing session was a gateway for me becoming a wiki editor extraordinaire months after Flock :P
2025-01-15 15:39:02 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But it was good and structured for newcomers
2025-01-15 15:39:08 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Content like this is what I want for newcomer track
2025-01-15 15:39:23 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I think we can agree we want workshops, but not too many 
2025-01-15 15:39:33 <@amoloney:fedora.im> again though, themes for these workshops... :p
2025-01-15 15:39:34 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I'd like to see workshops on _improving the new contributor experience_ not just onboarding people in person -- especially in this smaller format.
2025-01-15 15:39:38 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Workshops are basically out for Day 1/Day 2 mornings
2025-01-15 15:39:42 <@mattdm:fedora.im> we won't have space to do both.
2025-01-15 15:39:46 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Because of the large plenary setup
2025-01-15 15:39:54 <@rwright:fedora.im> Maybe - and just a thought - but if we did that for the first part in different talks, and then coalesced everyone into the gitforge together in the afternoon? Newbies at Flock get onboarded, people collaborate and meet each other, and then afternoon is a larger "hack on fedora processes" as a single track?
2025-01-15 15:40:23 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I don't like that word:  plenary.  it sounds so...medical?
2025-01-15 15:40:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Improving the new contributor experience sounds like a target audience of advanced contributors more than newcomers though. Right?
2025-01-15 15:40:45 <@mattdm:fedora.im> well, it helps to have new people to share their experiences.
2025-01-15 15:40:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Big room, small rooms :D
2025-01-15 15:41:00 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Mornings on Day 1 and Day 2 are one big room, no competing tracks
2025-01-15 15:41:04 <@amoloney:fedora.im> so is one theme 'Contributor Experience'?
2025-01-15 15:41:09 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> just say big rooms and small rooms.  keep it simple
2025-01-15 15:41:12 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Day 1 and 2 afternoon, and all of Day 3 are three bnreakouts
2025-01-15 15:41:28 <@bookwar:fedora.im> tbh, I am afraid of such workshops because usually they generate huge list of complaints and an even larger list of workitems, with noone able to do anything about them. Which becomes depressing after some time :)
2025-01-15 15:42:07 <@amoloney:fedora.im> we have ~19 mins, can we not talk about types of sessions and get to an agreement on the themes please?
2025-01-15 15:42:13 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But I think it is also unlikely for newcomers to be submitting to the CFP. Often, newcomers show up and participate versus lead a session or workshop
2025-01-15 15:42:18 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I was hoping for a "we know the docs need work, let's improve them!" workshop -- cross off work items rather than generate them
2025-01-15 15:42:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Yes, sorry
2025-01-15 15:42:35 <@amoloney:fedora.im> no apologies needed, just making sure we stay on track :)
2025-01-15 15:42:36 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Generally, I am hearing a consensus for these themes 
2025-01-15 15:42:41 <@jflory7:fedora.im> With some detail-picking
2025-01-15 15:42:54 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I'm +1 to the themes v0.2, with some spicing up of their presentation
2025-01-15 15:42:54 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But I am not hearing something majorly missing or majorly revised
2025-01-15 15:42:58 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> so like having themes but also a bounty list or something like that?  to provide scoping for what people should do?
2025-01-15 15:42:59 <@bookwar:fedora.im> For example, I wouldn't put "improvement" as a target of the gitforge talk. I would put "migration to git forge" as the current goal, because we know it is the work which must be done and we are going to do it.
2025-01-15 15:43:09 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Not sure I follow what you mean?
2025-01-15 15:44:00 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> to avoid the open ended people just sitting at circular tables doing their own thing and instead have some guidance for what the workshop is there for.  a to do list to get started, so to speak
2025-01-15 15:44:26 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This sounds like something the individual speaker should do in their abstract planning
2025-01-15 15:44:44 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> like Theme Name -> then here's a list of topics we'd like this room to work on.  if you reach a solution, an idea, or proposal...GREAT!  otherwise, let's see what the room did
2025-01-15 15:44:53 <@jflory7:fedora.im> To bookwar's previous point, workshops that are not structured and lead to complaint farming are not really good workshops. Workshops should get people hands-on with things. The CoreOS workshops that Dusty used to do are a great example
2025-01-15 15:44:55 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But 
2025-01-15 15:44:55 <@mattdm:fedora.im> If we want that kind of session though, we should make sure to ask for it up front
2025-01-15 15:44:58 <@jflory7:fedora.im> These are not themes
2025-01-15 15:45:08 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Yes, this is what the theme should encourage or discourage
2025-01-15 15:45:10 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> tbh the idea of a bounty list and being able to cross TODOs which will end in a badge being rewarded sounds AWESOME to me but a lot of effort to make it work
2025-01-15 15:45:10 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I would love to see the cool stuff people are doing with Fedora - is that included in the V.2 themes?
2025-01-15 15:45:14 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We need to provide that insight to submitters
2025-01-15 15:45:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Sounds user-focused to me?
2025-01-15 15:45:28 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> tbh the idea of a bounty list and being able to cross TODOs which will end in a badge being awarded sounds AWESOME to me but a lot of effort to make it work
2025-01-15 15:45:29 <@mattdm:fedora.im> release parties!
2025-01-15 15:45:54 <@amoloney:fedora.im> oh yeah the Spins are there for sure :) Just wondering if Flock is a good venue for that too"
2025-01-15 15:46:33 <@bookwar:fedora.im> If you get a really good talk submitted with such a content for Flock i guess it can be accepted, but it does feel like more of the Release Party context
2025-01-15 15:46:34 <@jflory7:fedora.im> It needs some sort of further direction 
2025-01-15 15:46:43 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Like what our contributors are doing for users 
2025-01-15 15:46:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I'm not framing it right but something like this 
2025-01-15 15:46:53 <@rwright:fedora.im> A maybe bad idea - booths for spins and stuff for people to learn about these things.
2025-01-15 15:47:14 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I'm a bit skeptical about adding booths because we haven't planned for them in our bid
2025-01-15 15:47:22 <@jflory7:fedora.im> May not be possible to insert them in now 
2025-01-15 15:47:24 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I think (especially given the new format) we should _explicitly_ discourage that kind of content at Flock this year. Send it to DevConf or to a different general Linux/OSS conference
2025-01-15 15:47:25 <@amoloney:fedora.im> no I get where youre going with it JWF (he/him) ! I agree release parties are best place for those kinds of content
2025-01-15 15:47:41 <@amoloney:fedora.im> its good to know what we dont want (or at least not fot this one) too
2025-01-15 15:47:51 <@rwright:fedora.im> a never said it was a good idea :D
2025-01-15 15:48:05 <@rwright:fedora.im> i never said it was a good idea :D
2025-01-15 15:48:05 <@jflory7:fedora.im> It is novel :)
2025-01-15 15:48:12 <@bookwar:fedora.im> bazzite booth at devconf.cz would be fun
2025-01-15 15:48:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> About ten minutes left… do we want to focus this contributor/user theme into a fourth theme, or keep the 0.2 list? 
2025-01-15 15:49:29 <@amoloney:fedora.im> i like v.2 list. all it needs is a bit of wordsmithing
2025-01-15 15:50:13 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I can take the 0.2 list and turn it into a 1.0 list with proper wordsmithing
2025-01-15 15:50:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Mostly I wanted to make sure that the major ideas and desires are captured 
2025-01-15 15:50:29 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Because we are going to have be strict this year 
2025-01-15 15:50:47 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Cool, thank you JWF (he/him) 
2025-01-15 15:50:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Anything that does not fit into a theme, we will likely have to reject due to scheduling conflicts 
2025-01-15 15:51:27 <@amoloney:fedora.im> From the timeline Dorka shared yesterday, the cfp needs to be finalised by 21st Jan. Is there anything you need us to help you with to meet this?
2025-01-15 15:52:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I could use help with comms but I know that is really my job hahah
2025-01-15 15:52:33 <@amoloney:fedora.im> yes but you have support from the council too :)
2025-01-15 15:52:44 <@amoloney:fedora.im> so anything that needs punting, punt!
2025-01-15 15:52:50 <@amoloney:fedora.im> one of us will catch it
2025-01-15 15:53:08 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Specifically, anyone not Justin, me, or Aoife want to take a crack at turning 0.2 into 1.0?
2025-01-15 15:53:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This past week has been really difficult personally. I'm at a hospital now, but I am trying to keep up with everything 
2025-01-15 15:53:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Thanks Aoife
2025-01-15 15:53:55 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I wouldn't say no if someone wanted to beat me to it, I still need to get the Flock dates and location published this week too
2025-01-15 15:54:13 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Im useless for writing these things :(
2025-01-15 15:54:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Worst case, I can get it in the next week sometime. I'm really trying to focus energy between FOSDEM and Flock (and still closing out 2024 budget line items, sigh :D ) 
2025-01-15 15:54:53 <@rwright:fedora.im> I can try to help. I am a master of <del>using AI</del> of typing.
2025-01-15 15:55:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Do you think by Monday is realistic?
2025-01-15 15:55:27 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Ideally the CFP is being configured next week 
2025-01-15 15:55:38 <@bookwar:fedora.im> Do we have AI Policy on the agenda for F2F? (me hides..)
2025-01-15 15:55:42 <@rwright:fedora.im> Deal! I'll ping you both with a draft shortly.
2025-01-15 15:55:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Robert Wright (he/him)++
2025-01-15 15:56:00 <@amoloney:fedora.im> not formally, but mentally in my head 
2025-01-15 15:56:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> jflory7 has already given cookies to rwright during the F41 timeframe
2025-01-15 15:56:05 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Cool. JWF (he/him) focus on the flock  location publishing, Robert Wright (he/him) give us a 1.0 of the CFP themes. Aoife Moloney Do you know how to do the CFP configuration? Or can we get someone else to help?
2025-01-15 15:56:26 <@amoloney:fedora.im> feel free to loop me in too as I can send out email/blog post when its ready
2025-01-15 15:56:27 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The CFP is basically a fork of last years Pretalx
2025-01-15 15:56:45 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Fortunately the hard work is done, just needs some substituting, update the themes, and revise the reviewer questions based on the themes 
2025-01-15 15:57:00 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I can take a stab at it
2025-01-15 15:57:37 <@amoloney:fedora.im> ok super quick Ill do some actions
2025-01-15 15:58:03 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !action Robert Wright (he/him) to draft cfp themes by end of week & send to Justin & cc Aoife
2025-01-15 15:58:31 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !action JWF (he/him) to sign off on Flock 2025 themes
2025-01-15 15:59:06 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !action @amoloney to try to get the cfp stuff updated in pretalx, and JWF (he/him) will help when, not if, she gets stuck ;p
2025-01-15 15:59:17 <@mattdm:fedora.im> yay!
2025-01-15 15:59:37 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Happy to help :) 
2025-01-15 15:59:44 <@amoloney:fedora.im> final topic
2025-01-15 15:59:54 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic provenpackager investigation
2025-01-15 16:00:02 <@amoloney:fedora.im> really quick to touch on this
2025-01-15 16:00:43 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info ffmancera has investigated the timeline of events on behalf of the council. The council needs to meet again to discuss this in more detail
2025-01-15 16:01:11 <@amoloney:fedora.im> dcantrell: I saw fesco has a report they want to send to council, are you the messenger? And thus, not to be shot :D
2025-01-15 16:01:52 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I am not the messenger.  Personally, I'm trying to let others in each group handle this situation since i'm in both groups and I don't want someone to think there's a conflict of interest
2025-01-15 16:02:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> thats fair, I think theres an assumption you will give the report to council though as the fesco rep
2025-01-15 16:02:49 <@amoloney:fedora.im> either way, if there is a report from fesco I would like to read it
2025-01-15 16:02:59 <@mattdm:fedora.im> I don't think delivering the report is a conflict of interest
2025-01-15 16:03:08 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> that makes sense.  well, it will either be me or someone else on fesco
2025-01-15 16:03:09 <@amoloney:fedora.im> can you follow up with fesco about this please for us
2025-01-15 16:03:14 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> yes, I will
2025-01-15 16:03:14 <@amoloney:fedora.im> can you follow up with fesco about this please for us?
2025-01-15 16:03:20 <@amoloney:fedora.im> merci :)
2025-01-15 16:03:25 <@mattdm:fedora.im> Once we have that, what's our next steps?
2025-01-15 16:03:51 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !action dcantrell will follow up with FESCo on behalf of the council to request their report be sent to the counci;
2025-01-15 16:04:04 <@amoloney:fedora.im> dang it, thats immortalized forever now in meetbot
2025-01-15 16:04:24 <@asamalik:fedora.im> 
2025-01-15 16:04:24 <@asamalik:fedora.im> And then I think we can discuss next steps in public.
2025-01-15 16:04:24 <@asamalik:fedora.im> We started an investigation in private, so we should end it in private and figure out what the result is. I don't know if it's a unified message from the Council, or if we'll just align and then each post something. 
2025-01-15 16:04:24 <@asamalik:fedora.im> 
2025-01-15 16:04:24 <@asamalik:fedora.im> My opinion:
2025-01-15 16:04:31 <@amoloney:fedora.im> anyway, next steps is the council meet privately to discuss this and align on what we want to do
2025-01-15 16:04:42 <@amoloney:fedora.im> ha yes asamalik :D
2025-01-15 16:04:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I would add too—
2025-01-15 16:05:18 <@mattdm:fedora.im> are we going to try to have that private meeting yet this week, or early next week?
2025-01-15 16:05:32 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Aoife Moloney and ffmancera are invited to the CoC Committee monthly meeting tomorrow to seek input and advice from the Committee, not in an official capacity but as a way to get more input from a neutral body to this issue 
2025-01-15 16:06:19 <@jflory7:fedora.im> As of present, I think I can say there is not a CoC incident about this issue and it is being resolved out of band from the CoC Committee, but I think there is a lot of lived wisdom and experience with interpersonal issues in FOSS communities there 
2025-01-15 16:06:32 <@jflory7:fedora.im> So that was why the decision was made to consult the CoC Committee in an advisorial capacity 
2025-01-15 16:06:42 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Just wanted to note that quickly too as something happening in the background 
2025-01-15 16:06:47 <@jflory7:fedora.im> <eof>
2025-01-15 16:07:13 <@ffmancera:fedora.im> IMHO, the sooner the better. we need to figure out a slot in our calendars.
2025-01-15 16:07:37 <@asamalik:fedora.im> And just so people know, we already discuss this async in a private channel, so we don't sit and wait for a video call. But I think we need one as a proper closer of the private part. 
2025-01-15 16:07:54 <@asamalik:fedora.im> closer -> closure 
2025-01-15 16:08:40 <@mattdm:fedora.im> okay. let's take the calendaring offline too
2025-01-15 16:10:18 <@amoloney:fedora.im> ok were gone over so will end the meeting now, thanks all"!
2025-01-15 16:10:21 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !endmeeting