19:00:46 <mizmo> #startmeeting 19:00:46 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug 3 19:00:46 2010 UTC. The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:46 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:55 * ianweller will be here in a sec 19:01:07 <mizmo> #topic rollcall 19:01:12 <fabsh> here 19:01:14 * mizmo Máirín Duffy 19:01:14 <maxamillion> here 19:01:15 * Schendje reporting 19:01:16 <tatica> maria leandro :D 19:01:25 * maxamillion Adam Miller 19:01:37 <maxamillion> (proper format for rollcall?) 19:01:40 * fabsh Fabian Scherschel 19:01:41 <mizmo> yay welcome to your first design team meeting maxamillion :) 19:01:48 <mizmo> there's no format, whatever works :) 19:01:50 * Emichan here! 19:01:51 <maxamillion> mizmo: many thanks! 19:01:56 <inkscaper> Alexander Smirnov 19:01:59 <maxamillion> mizmo: very happy to be here 19:02:02 <finalzone> luya tshimbalanga there and greeting all 19:02:03 <mizmo> hey Alexander! 19:02:20 <mizmo> all right cool, let me hit up the first topic real quick 19:02:25 <mizmo> #topic schedule reminders 19:02:27 <inkscaper> hey Máirín 19:02:30 <mizmo> we're got breathing room right now 19:02:37 <mizmo> in terms of tasks and when they are due 19:02:48 <mizmo> but things are going to get crazy once the F14 splashes are due I think 19:03:00 <mizmo> #info feedback period on alpha wallpaper ends 17 Aug. 19:03:09 <mizmo> #info supplemental wallpaper submission period ends 19 Aug. 19:03:16 <fabsh> noted 19:03:23 * nicubunu present too 19:03:24 <mizmo> so in terms of F14 those are dates we should be thinking of 19:03:30 <finalzone> that reminds me to submit my extra wallpapers 19:03:37 * kylebaker present 19:03:38 <mizmo> finalzone, please do! :) 19:04:02 <mizmo> i received two submissions this past week and they are pretty cool, one of my friends is a beekeeper and took a picture of his bees, another person from the fedora forums submitted a moon photo 19:04:03 <finalzone> okies =) 19:04:22 <fabsh> cool 19:04:23 <mizmo> okay any issues/concerns/questions regarding the schedule from anybody? 19:04:27 <fabsh> are they on the wiki? 19:04:35 <mizmo> fabsh, yep i uploaded them this morning :) 19:04:43 <mizmo> the last two in the gallery last i checked 19:04:53 <mizmo> aiight let's move on to the next topic 19:05:02 <mizmo> #topic fedora brand fonts project 19:05:02 <fabsh> mizmo: gotta see.... :) 19:05:44 <mizmo> #info ianweller posted a great summary of his conversation with pam chestek regarding our trademarks and fonts http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2010-July/003041.html 19:05:44 <fabsh> wow.... i love those mizmo. ace! 19:05:48 <mizmo> :) 19:06:15 <mizmo> so quick summary of ian's email (which also is a summary lol) 19:06:31 <mizmo> #info we shouldn't change the font of the fedora logo or the fedora remix logo (but we can change the remix logo colors) 19:06:37 * Schendje feels itchy on seeing the bees O_o 19:07:02 <mizmo> #info we shouldn't change the 'fudcon' logotype in the fudcon logo, but we *can* change the 'location' font to be comfortaa if we like 19:07:17 <mizmo> so 19:07:35 <mizmo> does it make sense, do you think, to change the location in the fudcon logo to comfortaa? 19:07:46 <finalzone> I think so 19:07:48 <nicubunu> yes 19:07:48 <maxamillion> would the two fonts look good next to one another? 19:07:58 <inkscaper> yes 19:08:01 * maxamillion isn't familiar with comfortaa (apologies) 19:08:04 <mizmo> maxamillion, thats a good question. maybe ianweller could do a mockup 19:08:20 <mizmo> maxamillion, it's actually very similar to the font used for the fedora logo (bryant2) with a little more flourishes/characer 19:08:29 * tatica has test comfortaa... +1 19:08:31 <mizmo> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design/Fedora_Branding_Fonts 19:08:31 <nicubunu> maxamillion: like this? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Artwork_ArtTeamProjects_WikiDesign_ArtTeamN1.png 19:08:47 <kylebaker> If the size relation of the location to the logo varies enough no one will notice they are different 19:08:54 <maxamillion> ooo, I like it 19:09:15 <inkscaper> looks good 19:09:20 <maxamillion> I actually like Comfortaa better than the old font 19:09:20 <mizmo> i like how this one came out too http://identi.ca/group/fedoradesign (the group avatar) 19:09:25 <mizmo> maxamillion, same here lol 19:09:35 <finalzone> comfortaa package is currently under review 19:09:39 <finalzone> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619518 19:09:41 <mizmo> okay so let's agree to update the fudcon logo with comfortaa for the location 19:09:53 <mizmo> #info we'll change the fudcon logo with comfortaa for the location 19:09:55 * finalzone nods 19:10:02 * Emichan agrees 19:10:05 <mizmo> the other font-related thing, cantarell vs droid sans 19:10:07 * ianweller nods 19:10:18 <mizmo> Emichan did an awesome job building an app to do the comparison 19:10:28 <Schendje> does anyone know yet how we can fix cantarell in inkscape? 19:10:35 <mizmo> Schendje, how is it broken? 19:10:41 <Schendje> the defaulting-to-bold thing 19:10:54 <Emichan> http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight 19:11:00 <Emichan> if anyone hasn't seen it 19:11:05 <nicubunu> the bug is with the font or with inkscape? 19:11:09 <fabsh_> sorry...... my connection died :/ 19:11:12 <mizmo> #link http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight Emily's font comparison app 19:11:29 <mizmo> fabsh_, it's all good, we are talking cantarell vs droid sans 19:11:38 * ianweller is finally back 19:11:46 <fabsh_> that is cool 19:11:49 <mizmo> Schendje, i guess it depends where the bug lies. what we could do is decide to hold off a decision until we try to get the problem fixed 19:11:54 <fabsh_> i prefer cantarell's spacing 19:12:02 <maxamillion> I think Cantarell is easier on the eyes, in large amounts of text Droid Sans appears a bit cluttered 19:12:16 <mizmo> can anybody reproduce the cantarell bold bug? 19:12:22 <fabsh_> although you can adjust for that with droid presumably 19:12:23 <kylebaker> the spacing can be changed 19:12:29 <mizmo> #info cantarell has a bug in inkscape where it goes bold when it shouldn't 19:12:31 <fabsh_> exactly 19:12:46 <ianweller> mizmo: i've had bugs like that in other (non-free) fonts 19:13:00 <fabsh_> i think droid is generaölly easier to read 19:13:00 <Schendje> i thought more people had that bug in previous meetings? 19:13:12 <nicubunu> yes, i have the bug too... complained on the list a few weeks ago and was adviced to use the text dialog (no workee) 19:13:16 <kylebaker> droid would be easier to read if it was spaced the same 19:13:27 <Schendje> nicubunu: indeed, the text dialog also doesn't work 19:13:29 <mizmo> oh i see, it's a problem for me too, the bold button on the toolbar doesn't work 19:13:29 <maxamillion> kylebaker: agreed 19:13:31 <fabsh_> kylebaker: agreed 19:13:41 <Emichan> I don't have that bug, is it just for specific versions of inkscape? 19:13:43 <mizmo> nicubunu, making it bold via the text dialog works for me 19:13:50 <mizmo> nicubunu, but the bold button on the toolbar doesnt 19:14:03 <Schendje> mizmo: it's bold with me too, i can't get the regular version though 19:14:07 <mizmo> im using inkscape-0.47-6.el6.x86_64 19:14:12 <Emichan> I like the spacing of cantarell, too, but agree that droid is easier to read 19:14:14 <nicubunu> for me in the text dialog it goes not bold until i hit apply 19:14:15 <mizmo> Schendje, weird! i get the regular version by default 19:14:37 <Schendje> Inkscape 0.47 r22583 here.. hmmm 19:14:53 * maxamillion tries to find a snarky comment about mizmo running EL6 and not Fedora but can't think of one 19:14:54 <kylebaker> mizmo, what is your gut feeling? 19:14:57 <maxamillion> :) 19:15:18 <mizmo> well i set the line-height to 1.5 em 19:15:29 <mizmo> so the line height for both cantarell and droid sans is the same in Emichan's webpage 19:15:37 <Emichan> I'm using inkscape 0.48 - the devel version 19:15:47 <mizmo> i still feel like cantarell is lighter, easier to read, and to me more elegant 19:15:55 <Schendje> i'll upgrade my inkscape, see how that goes... 19:16:01 <Schendje> and otherwise contact the inkscape developers 19:16:04 <maxamillion> mizmo: what's this font fight for? what are we deciding between these to for? 19:16:07 <maxamillion> s/to/two 19:16:09 <mizmo> -my- gut feeling would be to give cantarell a shot 19:16:20 <mizmo> maxamillion, for the fedora brand font recommendations 19:16:25 <Emichan> droid does have support for more scripts 19:16:26 <maxamillion> ohhh ok 19:16:30 <Emichan> something to keep in mind 19:16:38 <mizmo> maxamillion, so we decided comfortaa is going to be our headline font; we need to decide our body font 19:16:40 <maxamillion> Emichan: oh? ... that is something to keep in mind 19:16:48 <maxamillion> mizmo: ahh, makes sense 19:17:15 <finalzone> i personally like cantarell more 19:17:19 <Emichan> droid has CJK support as well... so we wouldn't need a separate font for those scripts... 19:17:20 <mizmo> nicubunu, do you know if Dave has any plans to expand to Greek or Cyrillic? 19:17:28 <maxamillion> Emichan: how many more though? and how much work would need doing to catch Cantarell up? 19:17:44 <nicubunu> mizmo: i don't know his plans 19:17:50 <maxamillion> because I really think Cantarell is a much easier font to read through 19:18:07 <mizmo> "Droid Sans Fallback is a font with CJK support." 19:18:21 <maxamillion> what's CJK? 19:18:43 <mizmo> chinese japanese korean 19:18:43 <Schendje> chinese/japanese/korean 19:18:55 <maxamillion> ah 19:19:15 <maxamillion> so much about fonts I have to learn 19:19:28 <kylebaker> If they are spaced the same in the style sheets Droid does not work as well 19:19:31 <fabsh_> its a world in and of itself 19:19:45 <Emichan> cantarell has Basic Latin, Western European, Catalan, Baltic, Turkish, Central European, Dutch and Afrikaans 19:20:00 <inkscaper> droid good support cyrillic. 19:20:01 <Emichan> according to http://abattis.org/cantarell/ 19:20:19 <Emichan> cantarell does have source availability which droid does not 19:20:25 <mizmo> one thing we could do if we like cantarell better is to pick specific fonts to fill in the gaps 19:20:45 <ianweller> +1 mizmo 19:21:12 <maxamillion> mizmo: use Cantarell where applicable and Droid Sans for the gaps? 19:21:14 <Emichan> we could always use both: cantarell as default/droid for those scripts not supported by cantarell... 19:21:21 <maxamillion> Emichan: +1 19:21:25 <Emichan> maxamillion: great minds! 19:21:32 <maxamillion> :) 19:21:39 <mizmo> so i just verified droid sans doesn't support japanese it falls back to deja vu 19:22:03 <maxamillion> oh 19:22:05 <mizmo> so we could do a fall back like this > Cantarell > Droid Sans > Deja Vu 19:22:10 <mizmo> Deja Vu Sans that is 19:22:12 <fabsh> well, these character sets a very different anyway 19:22:15 <mizmo> yeh 19:22:17 <ianweller> only worry i have is that deja vu looks nothing like cantarell or droid sans ;) 19:22:33 <mizmo> ianweller, deja vu Japanese goes fine with them though 19:22:37 <ianweller> hmm 19:22:43 <fabsh> most fonts designed for western characters use very generic characters for chinese and japanese anyway 19:22:51 <ianweller> should someone do a mockup? 19:23:06 <mizmo> have the same paragraph of text 19:23:08 <maxamillion> ianweller: does the typeface matter that much with such drastically different character sets? 19:23:10 <mizmo> in all the lanaguages fedora supports 19:23:11 <fabsh> maybe we are better off picking a separate font for these locales 19:23:27 <mizmo> showing cantarell for the langs it supports and droid and deja vu sans picking up the gaps? 19:23:44 <mizmo> inkscaper, do you know of any good free cyrillic fonts that might go well with cantarell? 19:24:09 <inkscaper> no 19:24:38 <inkscaper> i used droid 19:24:54 <inkscaper> and deja vu 19:25:10 <mizmo> inkscaper, do you think droid sans in cyrillic would be compatible with cantarell for latin? 19:25:49 <mizmo> #info development version of inkscape .48 does not have cantarell bug so it may well be an inkscape bug 19:26:00 <nicubunu> can us use Emichan's app to compare droid and dejavu for cyrillic? 19:26:13 <inkscaper> should try 19:26:18 <mizmo> #info current font proposal is to use cantarell where possible > fall back to droid > fall back to dejavu OR cantarell + specific hand-picked fonts per locale 19:26:42 <Emichan> nicubunu: sure - I can make the changes today 19:26:59 <mizmo> #action Emichan will add the ability to compare droid and dejavu for cyrillic in her font compare app 19:27:01 <ianweller> +1 to either of the proposals 19:27:03 <mizmo> okay cool 19:27:19 * ianweller checks to see if there were any other questions he had based on his summary from pchestek 19:27:47 <ianweller> is everybody cool with what was suggested in that email, btw? 19:28:00 <ianweller> i'm going to mock up the fudcon and foundations logos with the new font and post to the list. 19:28:20 * tatica is just doing that :S 19:28:29 <mizmo> ianweller, yep 19:28:32 <ianweller> or tatica is and i don't have to do work. 19:28:40 <ianweller> which is much better. :) 19:28:40 <mizmo> ianweller, a bunch of us agreed changing the location font to comfortaa in the fudcon logo is a good idea 19:28:49 <tatica> ianweller, LOL 19:29:08 <fabsh> i dont understand all the points in the email but i cant factually argue with tm lawyers, i know that 19:29:08 <tatica> not like that, but I'm doing a banner for latam-magazine right now and I was just going to ask that 19:29:19 <tatica> I can export what I did 19:29:35 <mizmo> so does anybody have strong feelings against cantarell with fallbacks? 19:30:00 <Emichan> mizmo: I'm fine with that 19:30:06 <fabsh> NOPE 19:30:06 <ianweller> +q1 19:30:07 <ianweller> +1 * 19:30:11 <fabsh> sorry caps lock 19:30:14 <ianweller> keke 19:30:14 <mizmo> lol 19:30:20 <finalzone> not at all 19:30:41 <mizmo> okay, let's stick to our FLOSS roots and go cantarell. we just need to figure out which fallback fonts for those locales it doesn't support 19:30:41 <Schendje> sounds good to me 19:30:45 <mizmo> Emichan's app will help with that 19:31:07 <mizmo> #info We've decided on using Cantarell and will work to determine specific fallback fonts for uncovered languages 19:31:09 <mizmo> cool 19:31:17 <mizmo> any other font-related questions / issues / concerns? 19:31:25 <nicubunu> mizmo: maybe ask on planet or on the fonts list for non-latin fonts suggestions? 19:31:30 <Emichan> mizmo: btw droid sans DOES support CJK, but you have to have droid sans fallback or droid sans japanese,etc installed 19:31:34 <mizmo> nicubunu, thats a great idea 19:31:51 <mizmo> Emichan, oh okay awesome! are those just as open or is ascender charging $$ for them? 19:31:58 <fabsh> mizmo: i think we should change all the fonts. i won't argue with the lawyers though ;) 19:32:02 <Emichan> mizmo: have to check 19:32:08 <mizmo> kk 19:32:16 <mizmo> so that would make CJK fallbacks easier 19:32:22 <mizmo> fabsh, i agree 100% :) 19:32:30 <tatica> http://tatica.fedorapeople.org/Fedora_Artwork/Logos/fudcon-comfortaa.png 19:32:32 * mizmo designed the new gnome logotype because it was an MS font before!! 19:32:40 <tatica> hmm... I need to fix those border... 19:32:44 <finalzone> woah 19:32:58 <mizmo> tatica, is the 'fudcon' part comfortaa? cuz we have to leave that modata 19:33:14 <tatica> ahhhh 19:33:15 <fabsh> mizmo: cool. i like their new slogan :) 19:33:18 <tatica> better 19:33:34 * tatica changing it 19:34:16 <tatica> http://tatica.fedorapeople.org/Fedora_Artwork/Logos/fudcon-comfortaa.png <= done 19:34:16 <mizmo> kk 19:34:23 <tatica> only country will be comfortaa? 19:34:25 <mizmo> oh! that works fine 19:34:27 <mizmo> yep 19:34:29 <Emichan> according to the versions I have installed DS fallback/japanese are apache v2 licensed 19:34:38 <mizmo> unfortunately :( the lawyers said we need to keep modata, tatica 19:34:43 <mizmo> Emichan, okay kick ass 19:34:49 * fabsh still thinks we should change the I in that font :) 19:34:52 <tatica> mizmo, np, I guess they where going to say that 19:34:53 <mizmo> #info Droid Sans Fallback / Japanese have CJK support, apache v2 licensed 19:35:05 * Emichan agrees with fabsh 19:35:06 <finalzone> comfortaa package is submitted for review, it will be nice if there is someone taking it 19:35:08 <mizmo> fabsh, it definitely sticks out 19:35:18 <ianweller> finalzone: i would but i don't understand the font guidelines well enough :( 19:35:33 <mizmo> finalzone, matthew miller had volunteered to help package it. can you ask him to help with the package review? 19:35:40 <mizmo> i bet he'd be happy to do it 19:35:50 <maxamillion> finalzone: is comfortaa not currently under review? 19:35:55 <inkscaper> i want try create alpha banner using comfortaa and droid (cantarell) 19:35:58 <finalzone> mizmo, sure 19:36:20 <mizmo> inkscaper, that would be awesome!!!!!! i think it's due pretty soon 19:36:24 * mizmo not sure how it didn't end up on the schedule 19:36:36 <mizmo> #action inscaper to create alpha banner for f14 using comfortaa and droid 19:36:47 <mizmo> okay, lets move on to the next topic :) 19:36:52 <mizmo> #topic new Design wiki page 19:36:55 <finalzone> maxamillion: no one is currently assigned as reviewer =( 19:36:58 <mizmo> Emichan did a kickass job cleaning up our wikipage 19:37:05 <mizmo> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design 19:37:06 <Emichan> thanks mo 19:37:08 <maxamillion> finalzone: link me, I'll review it 19:37:15 <mizmo> and I think nicubunu and msourada made some edits as well 19:37:18 <fabsh> finally! 19:37:25 <nicubunu> minor edits 19:37:33 <fabsh> nice work :) 19:37:38 <mizmo> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork the artwork page is now happily deprecated :) 19:37:45 <finalzone> maxamillion: cool, I am doing it right now 19:37:56 <mizmo> i like the new banner too 19:38:01 <fabsh> should we have a list of people on the team or does that change too much? 19:38:04 <nicubunu> still, i don't think is good for us to add a lot of stuff on the page, keep it readable 19:38:16 <mizmo> well 19:38:25 <mizmo> i definitely need to clean up the meeting notes section 19:38:30 <mizmo> i think i'll make a new wikipage for them 19:38:36 <mizmo> that should cut down on the page length a lot 19:38:54 <mizmo> kk 19:38:56 * fabsh doesnt think the page is too long 19:39:02 <mizmo> so does any body have questions/comments/concerns about the page? 19:39:06 <Emichan> the old artwork page also has some information on resources and guidelines that may need to be moved over 19:39:17 <Emichan> i'm not sure which of that stuff is still relevant 19:39:19 <mizmo> i think most of those are out-of-date 19:39:28 <mizmo> a lot of hte artwork requirements are totally different now 19:39:31 * ianweller has to run :( 19:39:43 <Emichan> maybe we should link to the new guidelines? 19:40:02 <mizmo> we don't actually have new ones :( i don't think 19:40:14 <mizmo> what we usually do every release is refer to the artwork from the release before to understand the specs 19:40:35 <fabsh> maybe we should work on that 19:40:36 <mizmo> it might be worth having a section that links to every release's artwork 19:40:36 <mizmo> eg 19:40:37 <mizmo> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_Artwork 19:40:40 <mizmo> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_Artwork 19:40:42 <mizmo> so on and so forth 19:40:42 <maxamillion> ianweller: laters 19:40:46 <mizmo> later ianweller 19:41:20 <mizmo> okay so we have 20 minutes left 19:41:42 <Emichan> maybe we should talk about creating new guidelines in the next meeting? 19:41:46 * fabsh wants meetings in manaworld 19:41:53 <mizmo> Emichan, that sounds great 19:42:04 <mizmo> #action we'll discuss new artwork guidelines for fedora next meeting 19:42:07 <mizmo> i want to do open floor for at least ten minutes since we haven't had time for it in so long 19:42:14 <mizmo> #topic open floor 19:42:22 <mizmo> we could try the social half hour in mana world today 19:42:25 <mizmo> :) :) :) 19:42:38 <fabsh> if i manage to figure out how to find people :) 19:42:43 <Schendje> lol that'd be awesome 19:42:46 <fabsh> and i have no shirt in there... :/ 19:42:52 <mizmo> i never get very far in it, i get killed by wormy guys 19:42:57 * Emichan has never played 19:43:02 <mizmo> it's very cute 19:43:04 <Schendje> are shirts obligatory for meetings? darnit... 19:43:10 * Schendje neither :( 19:43:12 <mizmo> it's a 2d anime-ish mmorpg 19:43:15 <mizmo> and it's open souce 19:43:17 <fabsh> i just found out about it from mizmo 19:43:17 <mizmo> source 19:43:35 <Emichan> has anyone tried google wave for online meetings? 19:43:41 <mizmo> http://themanaworld.org/ 19:43:42 <fabsh> it breaks down 19:43:49 <fabsh> wave that is 19:44:02 <mizmo> i haven't tried it for live meetings. the gnome guys use it sometimes for long running conversations 19:44:03 <fabsh> not quite on the Firefly level yet, that... 19:44:07 * Emichan is a sad panda 19:44:33 <Emichan> i know gw has a vector drawing plugin and some other neat things 19:44:38 <Emichan> but i haven't used it yet 19:44:46 <mizmo> there's an open source gw thingy http://pygowave.net/ 19:45:03 <mizmo> and also https://echowaves.com/ 19:45:18 <mizmo> why sad panda Emichan 19:45:22 <fabsh> suse has one as well 19:45:44 <mizmo> fabsh, it's not open though :( 19:45:59 <Emichan> sad about gw breaking down - would be cool to try it... ;) 19:46:02 <mizmo> OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 19:46:06 <mizmo> i forgot 19:46:07 <Schendje> wave looked so magical at first... then everybody tried it and went 'huh. well. ok.' (at least that's the feeling I had) 19:46:16 <fabsh> mizmo: it isn't? :( 19:46:18 <mizmo> http://django.parcodiyellowstone.it/pickpic/ 19:46:25 <mizmo> it's a little rough around the edges 19:46:40 <mizmo> but this is an app one of the students of the professors mchua met at oscon created 19:46:47 <mizmo> it's for collaborating on art 19:46:57 <mizmo> i was thinking it might be cool if we try it for F14 artworks 19:47:00 <fabsh> hmmm..... django. yum :) 19:47:00 <Schendje> mizmo: have you tried it yet? 19:47:08 <mizmo> Schendje, just for a few test images 19:47:11 <Schendje> the idea seems great but i haven't tried it myself yet... 19:47:23 <mizmo> it's hard to get a feel for how it would work collaboratively with just one off uploads tho 19:48:22 <fabsh> i 19:48:27 <fabsh> sorry.... 19:48:30 <mizmo> okay i just started an F14 proejct on there 19:48:32 <fabsh> i'd love to help test it 19:48:44 <mizmo> #link http://django.parcodiyellowstone.it/pickpic/singleproject/?projectid=112 19:48:48 <mizmo> join!!! 19:48:51 <Schendje> i should just create an account, right? 19:48:51 <fabsh> i could even poke at the code. django is one of the few code things i understand 19:48:54 <Schendje> cool :D 19:49:06 <finalzone> mizmo: I got errors 19:49:08 <fabsh> oops.... django error 19:49:15 <mizmo> my username on there is mairin 19:49:23 <mizmo> finalzone, fabsh can you guys sign up for accounts first? 19:49:30 * Emichan joined! 19:49:31 <fabsh> it went kaploooooo-ey! 19:49:37 <finalzone> mizmo: just a moment 19:49:39 <fabsh> mizmo: sorry :/ 19:50:02 <inkscaper> i have account on pickpic 19:50:35 <fabsh> thats better 19:50:49 <maxamillion> still broken on my end 19:50:59 <finalzone> now it works 19:51:08 <mizmo> maxamillion, what's it doing? 19:51:25 <Schendje> "GOOD JOB SCHENDJE" why thank you, dear pickpic! 19:52:00 <fabsh> they need to work on the design... lol ;) 19:52:38 <Schendje> fabsh: i'm thinking the dark grey on black is a little *too* dark 19:52:43 <mizmo> yeh it's a work in progress 19:52:49 <mizmo> it seems they are happy to hear our suggestoins though 19:52:56 <fabsh> cool 19:52:57 <mizmo> fabsh, it's AGPL :) 19:53:14 <maxamillion> mizmo: http://www.fpaste.org/o1Xw/ 19:53:18 <fabsh> mizmo: ACE! I love the AGPL. 19:53:32 * fabsh loves his precious AGPL soooo much! :D 19:53:45 <mizmo> maxamillion, what happens if you go here? 19:53:45 <Schendje> maxamillion: i got that too, but it went away after i created an account 19:53:47 <mizmo> http://django.parcodiyellowstone.it/pickpic 19:54:17 <maxamillion> mizmo: takes me to a page talking about collaborative toolkit for graphic designers 19:54:29 <maxamillion> mizmo: should I register? 19:54:37 <mizmo> maxamillion, yep! then try the link again 19:54:47 <mizmo> so i guess let's make an effort to use pickpic and see how it goes! 19:55:00 <mizmo> if it works well enough maybe we can have our own installation set up 19:55:17 <maxamillion> wow ... doesn't even ask for an email address ... interesting 19:55:20 <fabsh> something i wanted to mention..... 19:55:35 <fabsh> GUADEC got me really interested in Gnome Shell theming 19:55:48 <fabsh> I think we should have a look at that soon 19:55:48 <maxamillion> mizmo: now it works :) 19:55:54 <mizmo> fabsh, i agree 19:56:00 <mizmo> i dont think gnome shell is going to be default for f14 now 19:56:07 <fabsh> apparently it's all CSS so it should be easier then Gnome 2 theming 19:56:07 <mizmo> but i think it'll be good to get our feet wet in theming for it 19:56:09 <Emichan> fabsh: I brought it up on the list a while back so i'm for it 19:56:12 <Emichan> :) 19:56:14 <mizmo> unfortunately i dont know anything about how to load the CSS into it 19:56:16 <fabsh> mizmo: really? wow! 19:56:19 <mizmo> i know there is a console 19:56:26 <mizmo> ive seen walters work with it before 19:56:30 <Emichan> i've played with the theming a bit 19:56:32 <mizmo> he has tools like firebug for it 19:56:36 <mizmo> Emichan, is it hard? 19:56:36 <Schendje> fasbh: you can do all kinds of things with it, apparently http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/214/3/7/GNOME_Shell___Ambiance_Theme_by_half_left.png 19:56:43 <Schendje> fabsh: look how close that is to the default ubuntu theme :O 19:56:49 <mizmo> it would be cool if we could write a how to or something for it 19:56:49 <fabsh> maybe we should talk to him about it 19:56:49 <Schendje> fabsh: fits really nicely methinks 19:56:54 <Emichan> not at all, esp if you are already familiar w/css 19:56:59 <maxamillion> mizmo: console for gnome-shell? 19:57:00 <Emichan> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell 19:57:05 <Emichan> for install instructions 19:57:06 <mizmo> #action we need to investigate gnome shell theming, it is not hard if you are famliar with css 19:57:11 <aym> greetings 19:57:17 <Emichan> v. easy - jhbuild does all the work for you 19:57:20 <fabsh> i'll look into it 19:57:22 <mizmo> maxamillion, yeh, he showed me a live javascript console, so you could set CSS properties and watch them change LIVE 19:57:27 <mizmo> this was months and months ago too 19:57:28 * Schendje will also try some theming 19:57:29 <maxamillion> mizmo: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/LookingGlass 19:57:36 <maxamillion> mizmo: its looking glass, info in the link :) 19:57:37 <maxamillion> brb 19:57:41 * Schendje will do so after he actually get the shell working again haha 19:57:44 <mizmo> maxamillion, that's it!!! 19:57:48 <Emichan> then you just have to edit the gnome-shell.css file 19:57:57 <mizmo> #link http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/LookingGlass GNOME shell firebug-like tool for editing 19:58:06 <mizmo> #link http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell GNOME Shell install instructions 19:58:06 <finalzone> gnome-shell can be edited with css?? 19:58:08 <fabsh> i might talk to owen taylor ask him for some pointers on this 19:58:13 <aym> I'll put you in touch with Emanuele soon, re pickpic 19:58:22 <mizmo> #info to play with GNOME shell theming, install it then you just have to edit the gnome-shell.css file 19:58:23 <Emichan> i think it's in gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src/theme/gnome-shell.css 19:58:25 <Schendje> finalzone: yep, at least the theme can 19:58:28 <aym> need to sort some stuff 1st and rest a bit 19:58:31 <mizmo> aym, that would be great 19:58:39 <fabsh> mizmo: don't use their experimental repo! 19:58:39 <Emichan> restart gnome-shell to see the changes 19:58:42 <mizmo> aym, we'll be trying it out as a team, a bunch of us just joined a project 19:58:51 <Emichan> i haven't tried it with lookingglass 19:58:52 <mizmo> okay sweet 19:59:01 <mizmo> is there a console or UI to switch themes? 19:59:15 <mizmo> kind of like the theme chooser is old gnome? 19:59:25 <fabsh> that gnome shell repo busted my machine at guadec. luckil� mcepl was able to help me fix it 19:59:28 <Emichan> mizmo: not that i've seen 19:59:36 <mizmo> okay 19:59:43 <Emichan> hopefully before release 19:59:47 <mizmo> ill try to find out if they are planning it in time for f14 19:59:52 <aym> did you guys send us something for make art? 19:59:56 <mizmo> if so it might be nice to ship with some optional themes 20:00:06 <mizmo> aym, no we didnt get a chance to discuss it yet 20:00:11 <mizmo> aym, do you want to do a little promo for it now? 20:00:17 <fabsh> i thought current plan was ship it as an option with f14 20:00:23 * mizmo notes there are eu folks in here now 20:00:29 <fabsh> but even then it can't hurt to be prepared as a team 20:00:39 <mizmo> fabsh, oh i meant, planning a gnome shell theme switcher for f14 :) 20:00:41 <aym> http://makeart.goto10.org/call/ 20:00:49 <fabsh> mizmo: ah, ok. cool! 20:00:52 <mizmo> #topic make art / open source art conference 20:00:57 <kylebaker> check this out http://sixrevisions.com/web_design/a-web-designers-guide-to-linux-fonts/ 20:00:58 <mizmo> #link http://makeart.goto10.org/call/ 20:01:11 <aym> mizmo: any chance red hat could sponsor a flight for the non-eu ? 20:01:14 <maxamillion> back 20:01:27 <mizmo> aym, it's certainly a possibility! 20:01:28 * fabsh finds out where the frak pointiers is 20:01:31 <maxamillion> mizmo: yeah, walters showed me at FUDCon and I thought it was the coolest shiz I'd seen in quite some time 20:01:32 <tw2113> hi everybody *does a little dance* 20:01:57 <mizmo> aym, would tutorials in working with the FLOSS tools be useful? 20:02:02 <finalzone> kylebaker: cool, I was looking for that website 20:02:14 * mizmo doesn't really have any art works of note to show, but is happy to talk about workflow & tooling 20:02:19 <fabsh> oh..... that's far :( 20:02:34 <aym> mizmo: we're quite full on the workshop side, but we could make some room, some lectures on methodologies and workflows could be nice 20:03:08 <mizmo> aym, ill send out a notification about this to our team's list 20:03:18 <aym> mizmo: we will be starting to sort the responses we got from the call in the coming weeks 20:03:29 <mizmo> aym, i'll send it out internally at red hat too because i know there are engineers here who are artists in their free time and use the open source tools 20:03:45 <aym> ah, good to know :) 20:04:03 <mizmo> okay cool 20:04:07 <mizmo> so we're pretty much out of time 20:04:17 <aym> I think if we get something before mid mid august that's still fine for us 20:04:17 <mizmo> if anybody wants to hang around we'll have a social half-hour starting now :) 20:04:29 <tw2113> it's because i showed up isn't it 20:04:30 <mizmo> thanks aym! 20:04:38 <mizmo> #endmeeting