19:05:15 <mizmo> #startmeeting
19:05:15 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jan 11 19:05:15 2011 UTC.  The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:05:15 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:05:16 * schendje is
19:05:19 <mizmo> #rollcall
19:05:19 <fabsh> phew
19:05:21 <mizmo> er
19:05:23 <mizmo> #topic roll call
19:05:26 <fabsh> just got outta the shower
19:05:28 <mizmo> so we have finalzone fabsh schendje
19:05:35 <mizmo> lol fresh for the meeting
19:05:39 <fabsh> yeah
19:05:45 <fabsh> just back from a run too :)
19:05:53 <mizmo> oh nice :)
19:06:09 * gnokii lurking
19:06:12 <schendje> isn't showering mandatory for design meetings? :S
19:06:51 <fabsh> lol
19:07:00 <fabsh> my hair is dripping all over the place
19:07:13 * fabsh makes a towel turban
19:07:41 <mizmo> hey Emichan
19:08:28 <Emichan> hi guys :)
19:08:38 <fabsh> heyho
19:08:41 <mizmo> okie let me dive into topics
19:08:47 <mizmo> #topic Fedora 15 supplemental wallpaper submissions
19:09:02 <mizmo> i think our publicizing it more last week worked
19:09:08 <mizmo> as we've gotten more submissions and more interest
19:09:15 <fabsh> arrgh still need to do that
19:09:22 <mizmo> i had some folks message me on identi.ca & email me too to get help in submitting
19:09:23 <fabsh> will blog about it this week
19:09:26 <mizmo> and some already have theirs posted
19:09:33 <schendje> excellent :)
19:09:34 <mizmo> sounds good fabsh,
19:09:51 <mizmo> ianweller had an action item to advertise on deviant art too
19:09:58 <mizmo> but he's not here today so ill email him for a status update on that
19:10:09 <mizmo> #action mizmo to check in with ianweller on deviant art supplemental wallpaper status
19:10:16 <mizmo> #action fabsh to blog advertise supplemental wallpaper submissions
19:10:32 <mizmo> okay
19:10:40 <mizmo> any other notes / questions on $topic?
19:10:44 <fabsh> thanks for adding the action
19:11:01 <mizmo> npp :)
19:11:10 <mizmo> okay next topic
19:11:11 <mizmo> #topic FUDcon Tempe T-shirt design status update
19:11:19 <mizmo> so we had two action items for this
19:11:25 <mizmo> • Emichan to correct date on T-shirt mockup for Tempe and hand off to
19:11:25 <mizmo> Robyn for printers' estimate
19:11:29 <mizmo> • Schendje/Emichan to blog final t-shirt design for Tempe in Fedora
19:11:29 <mizmo> Design team blog
19:11:33 <mizmo> Emichan, schendje  - where we at?
19:11:35 <schendje> yep
19:11:45 <schendje> im working on it, it'll be out before the end of this week
19:11:47 <mizmo> kk
19:11:52 <mizmo> is the design team blog on planet fedora?
19:11:57 <schendje> Emichan: can you send me the final image?
19:12:00 <schendje> mizmo: hmmm not sure
19:12:04 <Emichan> I've posted the final designs as svg and pdf on the list
19:12:09 <schendje> Emichan: or is it simply the latest one on the list?
19:12:11 <schendje> ah ok :)
19:12:11 <mizmo> it doesn't look like it
19:12:12 <schendje> cool
19:12:15 <fabsh> where is the blog at again?
19:12:22 * rbergeron has the corrected tee shirt design and has a quote and is getting ready to pull the trigger on the order.
19:12:23 <mizmo> i can add it, i had to add the board blog so i can just copy/paste the entry in my .planet
19:12:32 <mizmo> #action mizmo to add design team blog to planet fedora
19:12:37 <Emichan> rbergeron, yay!
19:14:04 <mizmo> #info final fudcon tempe t-shirt design http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-January/003899.html
19:14:25 <mizmo> #info robyn got a quote for the tee shirt order and is ready to order
19:14:37 <fabsh> looks absolutely fab
19:14:37 <mizmo> #info jef is working on the design team blog on the tshirt design
19:14:41 <mizmo> fabsh, lemme look it up one sec
19:15:01 <mizmo> fabsh, http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/designteam/
19:15:08 <mizmo> #link Fedora Design team blog http://blogs.fedoraproject.org/wp/designteam/
19:15:12 <t2hot> sorry, I'm late
19:15:14 <fabsh> mizmo: thanks!
19:15:17 <mizmo> it's all good t2hot
19:15:38 * t2hot takes a seat
19:15:40 <fabsh> not much on there yet LOL
19:15:43 <mizmo> so basically we are in good shape for the fudcon tshirt, great job Emichan
19:15:48 <mizmo> fabsh, yep hehe
19:15:57 <mizmo> not *yet*
19:16:17 <mizmo> okay i though maybe ianweller's tempe print guide would be a good next topic but he couldn' make it today
19:16:23 <mizmo> maybe ill send an email to the list on it
19:16:32 * finalzone realized it has been months he blogged
19:16:34 <mizmo> #action mizmo to send an email to the design team list re: ianweller's print design for tempe
19:16:52 * schendje remembers ianweller also wanted to send a mail about the booklet
19:17:26 <mizmo> lol i'll jump his gun and hopefully he can fill in the missing gaps
19:17:30 <mizmo> er
19:17:35 <mizmo> hm
19:17:40 <mizmo> i think that might have been the wrong expression to use
19:17:45 <mizmo> lol dont think about it too hard
19:17:49 <mizmo> okay next topic
19:17:53 * schendje wouldn't even notice
19:18:01 <mizmo> #topic Fedora RPG
19:18:05 <mizmo> i did a mockup!
19:18:08 <mizmo> i posted it to the list
19:18:11 <mizmo> but i dont think i got any comments :(
19:18:14 <mizmo> maybe i should have blogged it
19:18:33 <fabsh> sorry, i was busy. email is overflowing
19:18:42 <schendje> that one bloke gave a few comments, right?
19:18:44 <mizmo> oh i got some feedback i think from kirk
19:18:46 <mizmo> yep thats right
19:18:55 <schendje> i remember some of them being valid too
19:19:00 <schendje> ah, right, kirk :)
19:19:10 <Emichan> mizmo, didn't you put it up on the image annotation thing as well?
19:19:18 <Emichan> we've got to come up with a name for it ;)
19:19:22 <mizmo> #link Mockup + comments on image annotation app http://jefvanschendel.nl/ImageAnnotation/index.php?i=Fedora_RPG_Startpage_Mockup_1
19:19:26 <mizmo> Emichan, yeppers it's so useful!!!
19:19:42 <t2hot> Sorry, what's 'RPG'????
19:19:44 <mizmo> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2011-January/003883.html RPG thumbnail sketches
19:20:05 <finalzone> t2hot: Role Playing Game
19:20:27 <mizmo> t2hot, there's a proposal to build an RPG for fedora to make it easier for new contributors to join fedora
19:20:31 <mizmo> and to win prizes! hehe
19:20:40 <t2hot> I thought so .... but that site looks serious.
19:20:54 <t2hot> I mean its cool, ...
19:21:30 <mizmo> t2hot, what do you mean serious? is the logo too serious? the overall design & coloring? serious as in it doesn't look like a game?
19:21:45 <mizmo> if the seriousness isn't appropriate, what would you change?
19:21:58 <mizmo> (this is exactly the type of feedback that's really useful, btw t2hot)
19:22:12 <t2hot> No, the concept ... the spirit behind the site.
19:22:41 <mizmo> the concept is serious?
19:22:48 <fabsh> it has cute pandas
19:22:52 <fabsh> that aint serious
19:22:55 <mizmo> well it has a serious purpose i guess
19:22:57 <schendje> t2hot: "serious" as in, a really big effort, maybe? or "for real"?
19:22:58 <Emichan> and hotdogs
19:22:59 <mizmo> to make it easier to contribute
19:23:09 <fabsh> i like big efforts :D
19:23:14 <t2hot> schendje has it
19:23:17 <fabsh> think big
19:23:51 <t2hot> its not a joke  ... maybe that should describe it better
19:23:55 <schendje> t2hot: it's sort-of official, not just a mockup floating around :)
19:24:29 <t2hot> It will sell ... big time
19:24:31 <mizmo> t2hot, ohhhh yeh it's not a joke
19:24:42 <mizmo> t2hot, it's for a proposal spot is going to make at FUDcon
19:24:45 <mizmo> later this month
19:24:55 <mizmo> the winning proposal(s) will have developers working on them
19:25:06 <t2hot> I see
19:25:25 <t2hot> This one will definitely pull strings
19:25:36 <t2hot> I like it
19:27:05 <t2hot> Well art-wise, I haven't given it a critical look.
19:27:19 <t2hot> So far, Its cool
19:27:21 <mizmo> t2hot, well any feedback you have i think would be great
19:27:30 <mizmo> and if anybody has other ideas please, please jump in :)
19:27:45 <fabsh> i'll have a look at it
19:28:03 <fabsh> i'd like to work on the widget thing when we get to that stage
19:28:06 <mizmo> does anybody have any general ideas / questions on the RPG project?
19:28:08 <mizmo> fabsh, that would be awesome
19:28:11 <mizmo> oh
19:28:14 <Emichan> There's already some good comments on the image, I'll also look over it and give feedback
19:28:19 <mizmo> that reminds me i have to upload your widget mockup to the wiki fabsh
19:28:27 <mizmo> #action mizmo to add fabsh's widget mockup to the RPG wiki page
19:28:33 <fabsh> ha, yeah. was just a first try. quite dirty
19:28:34 <mizmo> we need some other pages too
19:28:42 <mizmo> i did pencil sketches on some ideas i had for other pages
19:28:45 <mizmo> i think we need more pages too though
19:30:04 <mizmo> the idea i had was to have detail pages for users
19:30:07 <mizmo> detail pages for missions/quests
19:30:15 <mizmo> some missions though are way more work than others
19:30:19 <mizmo> so i added this idea of 'campaigns'
19:30:27 <fabsh> we definitely need content people then
19:30:33 <fabsh> people to write missions etc
19:30:41 <mizmo> well
19:30:54 <Emichan> the page you currently have mocked up is for a logged in user looking at their own character/account, right?
19:31:01 <mizmo> if we want it to be self-sustaining, i think ideally members of each team within fedora would be writing up the missions
19:31:04 <fabsh> once its up and running of course
19:31:10 <mizmo> Emichan, close - a logged in user, on the 'start page'
19:31:14 <fabsh> yeah cool
19:31:16 <mizmo> i think their own account page would have a lot more details
19:31:21 <Emichan> right, a kind of overview page
19:31:22 <mizmo> about their panda/hotdog in particular
19:31:24 <fabsh> we should ping marketing at some point
19:31:25 <mizmo> exactly
19:31:47 <mizmo> #idea maybe some kind of form field design to make it easier to write up a mission?
19:31:54 <Emichan> but we should also have an overview page for people looking at other players characters which should probably emphasize different information.
19:31:58 <mizmo> #idea ping marketing about rpg idea
19:32:10 <mizmo> #idea overview for people looking at other characters/ pages
19:32:12 <mizmo> yeh definitley
19:32:12 <mizmo> like
19:32:21 <mizmo> 'missions & campaigns you share with this person'
19:32:26 <mizmo> maybe a friend system
19:32:31 <fabsh> social! :)
19:32:54 <Emichan> right - and more information about already completed missions and trophies, and less on missions they're about to complete
19:33:00 <schendje> in a few years time, there will be a movie about this
19:33:10 <schendje> "you know what's cooler than a million points? a BILLION points"
19:33:22 <mizmo> lol
19:33:47 <mizmo> #idea profiles of other users need more emphasis on already-completed missions & trophies, less on those that are almost completed
19:34:04 <mizmo> yeh because from what a person has completed, you can get a good feel for what they like to do and where their skills & interests are
19:34:19 <fabsh> we need a definite design for trophies
19:34:23 <Emichan> right, plus people can show off what they've done! it's something to be proud of! :)
19:34:24 <fabsh> like a style guide
19:34:35 <fabsh> like they have for individual games on psn
19:34:47 <fabsh> the ones from dragon age rock, visually
19:34:57 <fabsh> otherwise they'll look all over the place
19:35:04 <Emichan> fabsh++
19:35:04 <t2hot> RPG site is living
19:35:32 <t2hot> Can the site be customized ...themed
19:35:38 <mizmo> #idea need a set of solid trophy designs
19:35:42 <t2hot> add a question mark there please
19:35:45 <mizmo> #idea trophy design style guide
19:35:54 <mizmo> fabsh, that's a fantastic idea
19:36:05 <fabsh> trophy HIG FTW! ;)
19:36:17 <mizmo> t2hot, i thought about that, it's an interesting idea... depending on your character's color the coloring of the website changes to match
19:36:27 <mizmo> like user pages on twitter or identica you can theme it within certain bounds maybe
19:36:36 <t2hot> cool
19:37:20 <mizmo> any other rpg ideas?
19:37:23 <Emichan> mizmo, t2hot ++
19:38:26 <mizmo> okay we got two more topix
19:38:40 <mizmo> although if anybody wants to work on rpg stuffs please let me know
19:38:54 <mizmo> if it's a matter of not knowing where to start or what to work on im happy to write up some ideas
19:39:47 <fabsh> that sounds good
19:40:02 <mizmo> okay next topic i wanted to do is the anaconda design stuff
19:40:02 <Emichan> put it on the wiki! :)
19:40:04 <mizmo> #topic anaconda ux
19:40:14 <mizmo> #action (mizmo to write up some open tasks on RPG wiki)
19:40:34 <mizmo> so last week i worked on some mockups for the localization / location sections of anaconda
19:41:04 <mizmo> #link start of anaconda UI localization discussion https://www.redhat.com/archives/anaconda-devel-list/2010-December/msg00110.html
19:41:13 <fabsh> btw, is there any reason you can't switch the language on the live cd
19:41:14 <fabsh> ?
19:41:21 <mizmo> fabsh, the live cd only fits english
19:41:30 <mizmo> i think if the other translations were included it wouldn't fit
19:41:31 <fabsh> that threw me when i tried to install it for my mother over xmas
19:41:40 <mizmo> if we go to a live dvd format i think they would be added back
19:41:43 <fabsh> ah. shame.
19:41:46 <mizmo> sorry about that :(
19:41:50 <fabsh> no worries
19:41:56 <mizmo> we have i think 20+ languages
19:42:04 <fabsh> they could at least include the language switcher app though
19:42:20 <fabsh> trying to find what package to actually install to get a lang is a nightmare
19:42:25 <mizmo> hmm
19:42:38 <mizmo> it would be nice if the language switcher app was there, then you could pick a language and package kit would get hte files you needed
19:42:44 <fabsh> i installed systemconfig-language or whatever its called
19:42:49 <mizmo> fabsh, i think it's totally worth filing a bug on, do you want me to file it?
19:42:51 <fabsh> yeah
19:42:58 <fabsh> i will do it
19:43:16 <fabsh> #action fabsh to file Ananconda bug on language switcher for live cd
19:43:19 <mizmo> okie!
19:43:32 <mizmo> oh i forgot the mockups lol
19:43:35 <fabsh> i did it by hand and now my ma has fedora auf deutsch :)
19:44:12 <mizmo> #link mockups for anaconda location https://www.redhat.com/archives/anaconda-devel-list/2011-January/msg00111.html
19:44:23 <mizmo> i basically took notting's idea and made it into mocks
19:45:24 <mizmo> one thing that is tricky about the mocks
19:45:44 <mizmo> is displaying the currently-set option but keeping a clean appearance while letting folks edit the options
19:45:55 <mizmo> so if you page through the mocks you'll see there's on-hover buttons for the various fields
19:45:59 <mizmo> eg
19:46:13 <mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/f/f3/Anaconda-location-4b-1.png <= there's one for "United States"
19:46:19 <mizmo> if you click on it then an overlay dialog appears
19:46:34 <mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/d/d6/Anaconda-location-4b-2.png
19:46:40 <finalzone> mizmo, is that for live media or dvd?
19:46:42 <mizmo> so that's the general pattern here
19:47:00 <mizmo> finalzone, it'd be for both although it may need some modifications for live media if it doesn't include all the langs
19:47:09 <mizmo> i think we're supposed to be going to live dvd for f15 though
19:47:11 <fabsh> i like the design
19:47:13 <schendje> mizmo: i'm liking the backdrop
19:47:23 <fabsh> you know, I'm warming up to that wallpaper
19:47:30 <mizmo> just a note, i did make these mockups before the wallpaper drama
19:47:39 <fabsh> lol
19:47:44 <fabsh> don't call it a drama
19:47:50 <fabsh> things like that happen
19:48:17 <mizmo> yeh
19:48:25 <finalzone> to be frank, it was time to take a break from wallpapers design to focus elsewhere
19:48:34 <fabsh> we'll sort it out and afterward we'll be stronger for it
19:48:35 <mizmo> i mean
19:48:40 <mizmo> if we focus on anaconda rather than wallpaper
19:48:47 <mizmo> those anaconda changes will make a huge, huge difference for years
19:48:51 <mizmo> the wallpaper only lasts 6 months..
19:49:03 <mizmo> finalzone, fabsh ++
19:49:48 <finalzone> I learn more with anaconda UX redesign
19:50:14 <mizmo> finalzone, would you be interested in reviewing the location mockups for me?
19:50:29 <mizmo> just walk through them and let me know if anything doesn't make sense or if you have any ideas / suggestions?
19:50:38 <finalzone> mizmo, sure
19:50:39 <fabsh> ok
19:50:43 <mizmo> awesome :)
19:51:23 <mizmo> #action finalzone to review anaconda location mockups https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/UX_Redesign/Anaconda_Location#Mockups
19:51:29 <t2hot> Can I look at those too?
19:51:37 <mizmo> t2hot, absolutely that'd be quite helpful!
19:51:43 <mizmo> #action t2hot to review anaconda location mockups
19:51:58 <mizmo> any other ideas / questions on the anaconda ux project?
19:52:04 <mizmo> honestly
19:52:11 <mizmo> if there is anything at all that bugs you about the fedora install process
19:52:14 <mizmo> now is the time to bring it up!!
19:52:19 <fabsh> ehhh
19:52:29 <mizmo> because we have a chance to fix it with this project
19:52:29 <fabsh> the fact that i have to enter stuff after the install?
19:52:30 <t2hot> can only think of ntp
19:52:37 <mizmo> fabsh, the firstboot screens?
19:52:38 <fabsh> i want to enter it all at the start
19:52:41 <fabsh> yeah
19:52:50 <mizmo> hm
19:52:52 <Emichan> fabsh++
19:52:53 <fabsh> and i want it to start installing while i do that
19:53:00 <fabsh> like the new ubuntu does
19:53:06 <mizmo> well the reason we have firstboot is for OEMs who ship pre-installed linux machines to customers who should fill out that info
19:53:10 <mizmo> but maybe a flag could be set
19:53:10 <fabsh> caldera had that YEARS ago apparently
19:53:23 * finalzone is also thinking about revamping the entire custom install layout (Pirut needs to die for good)
19:53:24 <fabsh> +1 on setting a flag
19:53:29 <mizmo> so by default it asks you the questions up front, but if you put a flag in the ks file it asks firstboot later for OEMs
19:53:38 <fabsh> +a
19:53:40 <fabsh> +1
19:53:45 <t2hot> +1
19:53:50 <mizmo> #idea ask firstboot questions in installer so users can finish all questions at once, have a flag in kickstart to use firstboot for OEMs
19:53:53 <Emichan> sounds great
19:54:06 <mizmo> it would be really hard to maintain as two separate code paths though
19:54:11 <mizmo> im not sure the devel solution for that
19:54:28 <mizmo> but ill talk to the anaconda peeps and see what they think
19:54:33 <fabsh> awesome
19:54:38 <fabsh> you rock! :)
19:54:39 <finalzone> hmm, does flag bring political problem?
19:54:41 <mizmo> #action mizmo to talk to anaconda folks about firstboot drop flag
19:54:57 <mizmo> finalzone, oh it's a different kind of flag, the kind of flag i mean is just setting a variable in a kickstart text file
19:55:05 <mizmo> finalzone, e.g., firstboot=1 or firstboot=0
19:55:06 <fabsh> lol
19:55:14 <finalzone> oh ok
19:55:14 <mizmo> the non-controversial kind of flag, thankfully
19:56:03 <fabsh> will we have an open floor?
19:56:25 <mizmo> well
19:56:30 <mizmo> the next topic is the wallpaper then open floor
19:56:35 <mizmo> but we might as well do open floor for both
19:56:36 <fabsh> i just have a short question
19:56:39 <mizmo> #topic open floor
19:56:40 <fabsh> ok cool
19:56:54 <fabsh> who will be at FOSDEM?
19:57:10 <mizmo> ah you asked me this in identi.ca sorry i missed it!
19:57:13 * mizmo won't be going :(
19:57:18 <fabsh> did i?