15:02:28 <threebean> #startmeeting fedora-hubs
15:02:28 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 23 15:02:28 2016 UTC.  The chair is threebean. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:28 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:28 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-hubs'
15:02:56 <threebean> #chair threebean pingou mizmo devyani7 dhritishikhar bee2502 decause mleonova
15:02:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: bee2502 decause devyani7 dhritishikhar mizmo mleonova pingou threebean
15:02:59 <threebean> #topic roll call
15:03:06 <threebean> anyone around for the hubs sync up meeting today?
15:03:10 <devyani7> .hello devyani7
15:03:11 <zodbot> devyani7: devyani7 'Devyani Kota' <devyanikota@gmail.com>
15:03:28 <dhritishikhar> .hello dhrish20
15:03:29 <zodbot> dhritishikhar: dhrish20 'Dhriti Shikhar' <dhrish20@gmail.com>
15:03:31 * pingou here
15:04:41 <threebean> ok.  let's get started :)
15:04:49 <threebean> #topic a look at some tickets
15:05:01 <threebean> we talked last week (our first meeting) about trying out a ticket-driven meeting format.
15:05:18 <threebean> I have a couple queued up here to talk about.. but, does anyone have a ticket they'd like to post and talk about first?
15:05:41 * mizmo__ waves
15:06:17 <mizmo> none here
15:06:19 <threebean> well, let's look at this one first:
15:06:21 <threebean> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/84
15:06:38 <threebean> I was going through and reviewing them today and I just wanted to highlight mizmo's mockup in that one.
15:07:08 <threebean> it has some cool redesign elements to it with respect to how we distinguish between a user's "personal" stream and their "public profile"
15:07:58 <threebean> but it also has some elements of the new fedora-bootstrap theme that I'd like to move to.
15:08:37 <mizmo> i have an svg file in the mockups dir thats called bootstrap1.svg or something like that (i will link to it) - i started trying to theme out what it'd look like with fedora-bootstrap but also tried to tackle a few tickets with it
15:08:47 <threebean> +1
15:09:03 <threebean> the badges widget looks fantastic.  way nicer than the little grid of badges we have currently.
15:09:08 <mizmo> https://github.com/fedoradesign/fedora-hubs/tree/master/bootstrap%20theme
15:09:31 <mizmo> yeh i was trying to think about, what badges might give you a picture of who you're looking at, i thought rarest badge might be neat, and we have the data
15:09:42 <mizmo> and most recent too lets you kind of know what they've been working on
15:10:24 <mizmo> and total number, you know how much of a badger they are :)
15:10:42 <mleonova> mizmo, looks like my time was off by an hour =(
15:11:03 <mizmo> mleonova: me too hehe
15:11:46 * mleonova is hoping next week will be fine
15:11:54 <threebean> :)
15:12:30 <threebean> oh, note that we have a cloud instance up now:  http://209.132.184.149/ralph/
15:12:36 <mizmo> \o/
15:12:41 <garrett> nice
15:12:50 <threebean> so, we can poke it and critique it and iterate on it.
15:13:16 <threebean> it doesn't auto-update when we change the code base, so you might have to poke an infra member to have it pull in new changes.
15:13:20 <mizmo> i was trying to get the new feed widget stuff on my local instance but i couldn't figure out how to see the stuff that was in the screenshots in the pull request
15:13:37 * threebean nods
15:13:57 <threebean> mizmo: it currently re-uses your "irc" preferences from https://apps.fedoraproject.org/notifications to figure out what it should and shouldn't show.
15:14:16 <threebean> (I have my irc preferences currently tweaked to show me all blog posts and all badges, just for development)
15:14:27 <threebean> later on, we'll create a new "hubs" context there to separate those rules for people.
15:14:28 <mizmo> AHHH okay, i had just turned them off a couple days ago lol thats why i dont see anything
15:14:32 <threebean> yup!
15:14:33 <mleonova> hey threebean =)
15:14:37 <threebean> mleonova: hey hey :)
15:14:40 <mizmo> (when doing ticket triage, the fedora-notifs thing with gnome shell drives me bonkers)
15:14:57 <threebean> oof, yeah.
15:15:07 * mizmo has been using polari
15:15:51 <threebean> well, tickets.  this is rolled up in the previous ticket (kinda)..
15:16:00 <threebean> but here's a ticket with the mockup just for the badges work:
15:16:02 <threebean> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/85
15:16:25 <threebean> (i'd kinda like to take that one on, but if someone else wants to, feel free to dive in!)
15:16:41 <mizmo> the idea there is the one of the right is the 'expanded' form, and if you hover oever the badges it'll tell you what they are in a little hover popup thingy
15:17:10 <threebean> +1 bootstrap.css has nice facilities for little popups built-in that we can use.
15:17:21 <dhritishikhar> mizmo +1
15:17:29 <mleonova> mizmo, cool thought about the rarest badge =)
15:17:38 <mizmo> the other thing about this one not noted is that for each category they're in order earned... so it's the most recent 5 or so
15:17:47 <mizmo> the '...' should take you to the user's profile on badges.fpo i think
15:17:54 <mizmo> thanks mleonova :)
15:18:10 <threebean> +1 to that.  "most recent" is good criteria there.
15:18:13 <garrett> threebean: BTW, speaking of tooltips; I made a truncation + tooltip thingy @ http://codepen.io/garrett/pen/VaLGzw
15:18:48 <threebean> garrett: nice!  That could help with some of our overflow issues.
15:18:54 <garrett> (for cockpit, but it's simple & reusable enough to be able to be used elsewhere... it's intended to be used with a tooltip library like with what bootstrap provides)
15:20:09 <threebean> last week I was trying to make some progress on this one:
15:20:10 <threebean> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/7
15:20:34 <threebean> there's lots more to do, but I'm trying to pay attention to my feed while I work on other parts and then take time to fix things when they look funky.
15:21:17 <threebean> if I look at my feed here:  http://209.132.184.149/ralph/  there's lots of spam from different systems.  stuff that I do want to know about, but I don't want it to take up the entirety of my feed's real estate.
15:21:30 <mizmo> it's awesome to see it with real data, it really helps figure out how things should work
15:21:30 <threebean> so.. more work to do there writing code to collapse different categories together.
15:21:38 <threebean> mizmo: yeah :p
15:22:18 <devyani7> threebean: +1 for the feed widget
15:23:28 <pingou> we'll need to tweak the monokai css
15:23:28 <threebean> ok - another one:
15:23:34 <threebean> pingou: oh, yes.  agreed.
15:23:44 <threebean> pingou: I just kind of picked it at random :P
15:23:53 <pingou> threebean: looks nice, but unreadable :D
15:24:16 <mizmo> pingou: what is monokai?
15:24:37 <pingou> mizmo: the css we're apparently using to color the diff
15:24:41 <mizmo> ahhh
15:24:41 * threebean nods
15:24:46 <threebean> the css for code patches, yeah.
15:24:52 <pingou> mizmo: scroll down, there is an entry from sayan on a commit on fedimg
15:25:08 <mizmo> ah yeah, green on gray o_O
15:25:25 <pingou> not working :D
15:25:31 <threebean> "easy on the eyes"
15:25:46 <mizmo> something long like that should probalby be ellipsized by default too
15:25:51 <mizmo> like maybe 5-10 lines up front
15:26:03 <mleonova> mizmo, +1
15:26:15 * threebean files a ticket for that.
15:26:50 <fedmsg-hubs> pagure.issue.new -- ralph opened a new ticket fedora-hubs#123: "Fix pygments css so that diff patches are readable." https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/123
15:26:58 <mleonova> there is a 'col' - but it should be by default and not all of it, I guess
15:27:29 <mleonova> also - 'col'? =)
15:27:35 <fedmsg-hubs> pagure.issue.new -- ralph opened a new ticket fedora-hubs#124: "Collapse super long long_form content by default." https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/124
15:27:48 <mleonova> for a non-native speaker might be confusing
15:27:53 <pingou> colapse?
15:27:56 <threebean> mleonova: ah -- the full word there is 'collapse'
15:28:03 <pingou> w/ 2 l :)
15:28:09 <mleonova> threebean, yeah, i got that =) but weird
15:28:10 <mizmo> col i associate with column not collapse, so it's confusing for native speakers too
15:28:16 <threebean> but the content pushes beyond the boundary of the widget.. and our css isn't adjusting appropriately.
15:28:35 * mizmo hasn't poked around the CSS since before leave and needs to
15:28:39 <mleonova> threebean, aww something broke the time space continuum again?
15:28:46 <threebean> mleonova: so sorry :(
15:28:51 <mizmo> i might try starting to apply the fedora-bootstrap to it and see if i get anywhere
15:28:59 <threebean> +1, mizmo that would be rad.
15:29:03 <mleonova> threebean, don't be =)
15:29:13 <pingou> btw do we use the PR mechanism on hubs or not yet?
15:29:19 <threebean> pingou: yes, we do.
15:29:28 <pingou> ok
15:30:04 <threebean> mizmo: feel free to be disruptive in that.  I noticed in your mockup that the 'subscription' information appeared above where the other widget-looking content was placed.  if we want to break that out into a non-widget content in the main template to make things look right, that's okay with me.
15:30:39 <mizmo> threebean: okay cool. yeh i was just flailing around to see what might work
15:30:47 <threebean> (looks nice to me)
15:31:11 <threebean> other tickets?
15:31:32 <mleonova> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/92  - i wanted to talk a bit about this one
15:31:39 <threebean> mleonova: yeah, go for it :)
15:31:52 <mleonova> what else might be on the welcome hub?
15:32:27 <mleonova> besides the hubs that might be of interest
15:32:36 <mizmo> i think at one point we talked about ask.fedoraproject.org content
15:32:56 <mizmo> like, if you're new as a fedora contributor, you might also need help using fedora
15:33:02 <mizmo> not sure if that's a strong connection tho
15:33:04 * mizmo thinks
15:33:23 <mleonova> frankly I only opened it for the first time yesterday)
15:33:37 <mizmo> well every hub can have different standard things associated with it -
15:33:39 <mizmo> ticket queue
15:33:41 <mizmo> mailing list
15:33:43 <mizmo> irc channel
15:33:48 <mleonova> maybe fedora magazine something
15:33:49 <mizmo> maybe wiki page
15:33:51 <mizmo> meetings
15:33:55 <threebean> (wiki page namespace)
15:33:56 <mizmo> etc etc
15:34:00 <mizmo> yeh
15:34:14 <mizmo> there used to be a welcome sig but i dont think it's really operational these days
15:34:21 * threebean nods
15:34:30 <mizmo> commops is pretty active though, welcome might be a space where commops can meet 'n greet newbies
15:34:46 <mizmo> so if we think about it as a newbie gathering place, with maybe some commops helpers monitoring
15:34:53 <threebean> yeah.  I bet they'd be warm to the idea too, but they might get overwhelmed with noise if we add every new hub user there?
15:34:55 <dhritishikhar> mleonova, perhaps a rss feed widget for fedora magazine?
15:35:18 <mizmo> threebean: yeh i think they are going to want some stats, like 10 new potential contribs this week or something, like a regular report kind of thing
15:35:30 <mleonova> dhritishikhar, yeah
15:35:38 <mizmo> threebean: where individual users come in for commops i think is the halp! feature they mentioned, i think there's a separate ticket for it
15:35:58 <mizmo> mleonova: ooh an asknot widget might be cool
15:36:04 <mizmo> mleonova: whatcanidoforfedora.org i think
15:36:19 <mizmo> if you're joining hubs as a newbie, you're basically joining to try to start contributing
15:36:21 <mleonova> actually, yeah! that's pretty neat
15:36:24 <threebean> ah, agreed!  I think garret's idea of the "start wizard" was that a new user wouldn't necessarily know what to search for, and would need to be lead somewhat to find what groups we do have.
15:36:39 <threebean> and asknot is meant to do just that..
15:36:44 <garrett> yep
15:36:59 <mizmo> but maybe rather than point at the project page, it'll point at the project hub
15:37:04 <mleonova> well, for that I like what reddit did - they kinda auto-subscribe you to the most popular subreddits as a start
15:37:04 <threebean> +1
15:37:35 <mizmo> mleonova: +1
15:37:41 <mizmo> subscribe, not join though! :)
15:37:54 <mizmo> so you can follow along with the more popular ones
15:38:00 <mleonova> mizmo, definitely
15:38:17 <mizmo> altho maybe we end up with an echo chamber of new contributors being way more likely to sign up for projects that are already popular and the less popular / known ones starving for contribs?
15:38:26 <garrett> also, I've seen some onboarding where it has groups of things, like photography, programming, baking, etc. and adds those topics for you (like popular blog posts in those categories for a news app, or popular boards in pinterest, etc.)
15:39:00 <mizmo> ohh yeh
15:39:06 <mizmo> i like how pinterest does it, it works well
15:39:23 <mleonova> https://plus.google.com/collections/featured - also chcek out g+
15:39:36 <mizmo> mleonova: the welcome page doesn't just need to have the feed widget on the left either, you can make other widgets on the left too
15:39:53 <mizmo> mleonova: the general idea we'd had so far was that stuff on the left is more dynamic / time based and stuff on the right is more stateful
15:40:12 <threebean> yeah - but that's just convention.  we could put anything on the left or right.
15:40:15 <mleonova> mizmo, sure, yeah
15:42:04 <mizmo> threebean: true, i think its good to have an overarching pattern though
15:42:21 <mizmo> at least for each page
15:42:55 <threebean> hm, yes.  good ideas.  maybe we can bat more ideas/sketches back and forth in the ticket?
15:43:00 <mizmo> (iow, each page should probably be consistent, but different pages could adopt diff patterns if it suits them)
15:43:02 <mizmo> makes sense
15:43:17 <threebean> cool, cool.
15:43:21 <mleonova> threebean, yup
15:43:31 <mizmo> another design issue garrett and mleonova and i talked about this morning is the main nav
15:43:45 <mizmo> im not sure 100% what to do there yet
15:43:54 <threebean> heheh, ok.  :p  new problems?
15:44:10 <mizmo> the current design is to have the bookmarks bar, garrett has done some mockups with a categorical breakdown of groups / people / projects
15:44:33 <mizmo> i like the idea of being able to have separate groups / people / projects pages, each that has a stream of activities for those things you're a member of
15:44:48 <mizmo> eg if i clicked on groups/teams, it'd be a fedora planet like aggregation of activities in the teams i'm following -
15:45:02 <mizmo> not all of that would show up in my stream, bc my stream only shows stuff related to me, a package i own, someone mentioned my name, etc.
15:45:19 <mizmo> but, what i like about the bookmarks bar is it kind of limits what you can be active in
15:45:45 <mizmo> which i think is good, kind of in avoiding burn out and just human limits being what they are, you can't really be actively contributing every day to more than a handful of things
15:45:56 <mizmo> but with the bookmarks bar - how do you follow stuff you're less involved in? it's not as easy
15:46:51 <threebean> hm, yeah.  :/
15:46:59 <mizmo> but i am worried about people thinking about groups/teams vs projects, eg would latam be in groups/teams or would it be a project?
15:47:22 <mizmo> so we started talking about how groups/teams => fas group, people => fas account, project => fedorahosted or pagure project + project-wide initiatives (eg fedora.next, modularity)
15:48:32 <mizmo> anyway im starting to lean towards the groups / people / projects thing, but maybe some thinking on better wording, and we need mockups for the landing pages / streams for each of those
15:48:37 <mizmo> so this should probably be a new ticket i think
15:49:20 <threebean> I see the problem.  we kind of have a 'scope' issue where, we don't want to include too much info in your main feed.. so we starting breaking out your feed into different scopes:  here is your personal feed, here is your groups feed, etc..
15:49:28 <mizmo> yeh
15:49:37 <threebean> but then we could wind up in a new problem where we have too many scopes and we end up overloading people in a different way.
15:49:39 <mizmo> where i get a little weirded by that, is i don't feel compelled to check a groups feed
15:49:41 <mizmo> exactly
15:49:57 <mleonova> mizmo, yeah
15:49:59 <mizmo> so maybe groups isn't just the groups feed, but a listing of the your memberships with the feed below it
15:50:16 <garrett> mizmo: yep, exactly
15:50:16 <mizmo> it should be more than just a feed
15:50:22 <mleonova> I don't think separating feeds is good
15:50:24 <threebean> cool.  let's keep thinking on it and talking about it.. but, consider the option also to 'say no' to a feature :p
15:50:33 <threebean> we could call 'scopes' just 'out of scope' for fedora-hubs.  :p
15:50:38 <mizmo> hehe
15:51:01 <mizmo> so if we weren't going to do the scopes
15:51:02 <mleonova> for example: we had this separate feeds on vkontakte and I never ever checked the groups
15:51:14 <threebean> heh, we have this firehose of information with fedmsg.. so we put a kaleidoscope in front of it!
15:51:32 <mizmo> mleonova: yeh im the same on facebook, lol, i dont ever check groups unless an interesting message from the gruop comes into my main feed, i might click over, but i never go to the listing
15:52:08 <mleonova> mizmo, so probably better to keep it all together)
15:52:17 <mizmo> if we weren't going to do the scopes then maybe the bookmarks bar works, but then we need to have a way for people to more casually follow stuff
15:52:32 <garrett> mizmo: (on the other hand, I check the stream of reddit, but browser over to subreddits to see stuff I missed)
15:52:36 <mizmo> so your personal stream right now is a 'me' item in the bookmarks bar -
15:52:58 <mizmo> the stuff i follow more casually could jsut be a 'following' item in the bookmarks bar (kind of like your twitter @ notifications vs your twitter firehose)
15:53:11 <mizmo> so instead of scopes / categories, it's just, me vs the world lol
15:53:11 <garrett> mizmo: like /r/android or such, because there's no way to read all the streams when merged
15:53:32 <mizmo> garrett: do you go to the url specifically or click on it somewhere
15:53:43 <garrett> mizmo: Android app
15:53:51 <mizmo> bc there isn't any reason why someone couldnt go specifically to a url here, the urls are very sensical
15:54:01 <garrett> mizmo: the website is hard to use... when I do use it, I type it in directly for /r/android, /r/kindle, etc.
15:54:08 <mleonova> garrett, people do that from time to time, but smt I can forget for a subreddit for half a year ;P
15:54:15 <garrett> mizmo: (can't find them on the website)
15:54:42 <mleonova> garrett, it's like - out of sight out of mind kind of thing
15:55:07 <mizmo> mleonova: and thats what i worry about, if the most popular hubs you follow aren't in your nav bar, maybe you don't go to them as much bc they are out of sight
15:55:24 <garrett> mleonova: totally; that's one of the big reasons I prefer using an android app (reddit sync) over the website, because I can actually look at the groups I care about most
15:55:49 <mleonova> garrett, haha, cool =) mobile first
15:56:02 <threebean> hey team - we're at 5 minutes until the hour.  can I ask a question before we close out?
15:56:13 <mleonova> threebean, shoot
15:56:16 <mizmo> go4it
15:56:30 * mizmo needs to try the reddit android app
15:56:35 <threebean> is there anything the design/ux group would like to see prioritized on the implementation list?  something we should do asap so we can iterate over time?
15:56:58 <mizmo> i think feed widget is #1
15:56:59 <threebean> otherwise, we'll just start picking stuff at random that looks like fun (to get done before next week's meeting)
15:57:34 <devyani7_> threebean +1
15:57:46 <mizmo> getting hyperkitty and blogs into the feed widget i think would be biggest bang for the buck in terms of the app's effectiveness but i dont know how PITA that would be (im guessing very)
15:57:55 <threebean> mizmo: cool - we can try to focus there.
15:58:03 <threebean> mizmo: we should actually already have both of those in place now :)
15:58:09 <mizmo> ohhh!! \o/
15:58:18 <threebean> (if they're not in the demo, it's only a configuration issue // spam issue)
15:58:20 <mizmo> then two other things, also related -
15:58:30 <mizmo> - prepopulating the db with the list of groups from fas
15:58:40 <threebean> +1 we have a ticket for that.  it's already high on my list.
15:58:59 <mizmo> - allowing config of fas groups so we can associate the design team list and the design team bloggers with the design team
15:59:08 <mizmo> (if that association isn't done in fedmsg?)
15:59:12 * threebean thinks
15:59:13 <mizmo> or does fedmsg already know about that
15:59:27 <threebean> fedmsg doesn't know that stuff.. but we can have hubs tie the two threads together.
15:59:34 <threebean> the fas thread and the fedmsg thread.
15:59:53 <mizmo> in terms of having a prototype at flock that people would "get", i think browsing people's profiles and seeing their blog posts / mailing list posts / badges would be a nice base level of functionality, and i think the same for teams would be as well
16:00:25 <mizmo> so in a potential intitial demo-ware prototype i'd want to go to the design team group and see the list posts... oh and tickets too
16:00:40 <threebean> cool, sounds good.  roundly -- let's get better default data in there (default profiles and groups, etc..)  something that really maps to fas and the existing community.
16:00:44 <mizmo> for a team i think maybe tickets + mailing list posts are bigger than ml posts + blogs (since the blogs aren't always to do with the team)
16:01:35 <threebean> oh, I have an announcement too.  I'm going to be leaving the project in about a month..
16:01:59 <threebean> I'm moving to a different team internally in RH, but there's going to be one or more people taking my place to help run meetings and drive development.
16:02:15 <mleonova> threebean, :(((
16:02:16 <threebean> I'll still be around in Fedora, but just not taking as much of an active role in hubs so.. more on that in the coming weeks I guess.  :)
16:02:22 * pingou hopes to be helpfull
16:02:29 <threebean> pingou++
16:03:16 <threebean> ok.  thanks all :)  lots to do!
16:03:18 <threebean> #endmeeting