14:09:32 <pingou> #startmeeting fedora-hubs
14:09:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 27 14:09:32 2016 UTC.  The chair is pingou. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:09:32 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:09:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-hubs'
14:09:32 <zodbot> mizmo: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.
14:09:37 <mizmo> what!
14:09:39 <mizmo> #endmeeting
14:09:45 <pingou> mizmo: I went first :-p
14:09:48 <mizmo> oh
14:09:52 <pingou> #chair mizmo decause sayan
14:09:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: decause mizmo pingou sayan
14:09:58 <mizmo> phew
14:10:03 <decause> .hello decause
14:10:04 <zodbot> decause: decause 'Remy DeCausemaker' <decause@redhat.com>
14:10:09 <sayan> .hello sayanchowdhury
14:10:10 <zodbot> sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' <sayan.chowdhury2012@gmail.com>
14:10:14 <pingou> .mynameis pingou
14:10:18 <mizmo> is pagure.io pagure2.0 right now?
14:10:20 <mizmo> .hello duffy
14:10:21 <zodbot> mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' <fedora@linuxgrrl.com>
14:10:22 <devyani7> .hello devyani7
14:10:24 <zodbot> devyani7: devyani7 'Devyani Kota' <devyanikota@gmail.com>
14:10:25 <pingou> mizmo: even 2.0.1 :-p
14:10:34 <pingou> .hello pingou
14:10:35 <zodbot> pingou: pingou 'Pierre-YvesChibon' <pingou@pingoured.fr>
14:11:04 <mizmo> oh i see the priority column
14:11:14 <pingou> it appeared when I added them
14:11:16 <pingou> https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issues?tags=!widget
14:11:28 <pingou> looks like some widget-related tickets aren't tagged widgets
14:11:47 * pingou wonders if we do not have too many tags
14:12:21 <decause> thatisprolly my fault :P
14:12:43 <mizmo> i dont mind going thru and cleaning them up
14:12:45 <pingou> decause: we may want to reduce on this :)
14:12:53 <mizmo> i think using prioirities is the right way to go
14:12:58 <pingou> tags are handy when we can use them to group
14:13:14 <pingou> mizmo: I could see us having a 'flock' tag and priorities inside it
14:13:29 <decause> nice
14:13:30 <mizmo> pingou: we have a FirefoxOS tag, but nothing in it... is there a way to delete them? https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issues?tags=FirefoxOS
14:13:43 <mizmo> oh i found it, it's in closed (sorry for the noise)
14:13:44 <pingou> mizmo: the settings page has the list w/ all of them
14:14:06 <sayan> pingou: what the utility of ! in tag?
14:14:08 <decause> yeah, that widget didn't work out all that well
14:14:14 <pingou> sayan: exclude :-p
14:14:38 <pingou> sayan: not really documented but I love using it :) (?tags=!widget -> all the tickets *not* tagged with 'widget')
14:14:46 <fedmsg-hubs> pagure.issue.tag.removed -- duffy removed the FirefoxOS tags from ticket fedora-hubs#21 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/21
14:14:49 <fedmsg-hubs> pagure.issue.edit -- duffy edited the priority fields of ticket fedora-hubs#21 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/21
14:15:17 <sayan> yes, that's a helpful one
14:15:24 <pingou> hm, it sets by default the priority to high, bummer :/
14:16:07 <mizmo> i can do the triage to get the widget tags on the ones that are missing it too
14:16:21 <mizmo> i think to figure out what the priorities of things are we need to know where we want to be in time for flock
14:16:32 <mizmo> i think there's a few fundamental things we definitely need done -
14:16:42 <mizmo> the login / forgot password flow
14:17:02 <mizmo> the user's news feed
14:17:10 <mizmo> the user's profile
14:17:15 <mizmo> team hubs
14:17:30 <mizmo> i think we can't get all teams / all people with an amazing experience out the door for flock
14:17:53 <pingou> probably not :)
14:17:57 <mizmo> so my proposal (feel free to blast it away) would be to pick 2-3 teams in fedora and try to prioritize widgets based on their needs
14:18:12 <mizmo> it's an old saying in UX (from Alan Cooper) -it's better to please 20% of users 90% than 90% of users 20%
14:18:18 <mizmo> we don't want to lose momentum or excitement
14:18:24 <sayan> mizmo++
14:18:41 <mizmo> we had this idea in the thursday meeting last week, that the teams we handpick, will go out at launch with fully-formed team pages
14:19:00 <mizmo> that'd be 2-3 teams
14:19:22 <mizmo> other teams beyond that would get a splash, something like, 'your team hub isn't set up yet' and maybe a button for the adminto go in and configure it
14:19:33 <pingou> sounds good
14:19:53 <mizmo> so at least there's a clear narrative, hey, we're not done yet, we focused on these 2-3 teams, look what an awesome time they're having, i bet you can't wait for your turn, maybe you'll come talk to us about your needs :)
14:20:29 <mizmo> my proposal for the 2-3 teams to work on would be - not packagers. because they have enough toys!
14:20:47 <mizmo> decause - do you remember the teams we talked about?
14:20:51 <pingou> design
14:21:00 <mizmo> yeh design is good because we know the case very well :)
14:21:03 <pingou> translations?
14:21:05 <decause> g11n, design, and commops
14:21:11 <decause> forvstarters
14:21:11 <mizmo> yes! translations needs love
14:21:13 <mizmo> and commops
14:21:15 <mizmo> right
14:21:16 <pingou> cool
14:21:21 <mizmo> so when prioritizing widgets we should think about these teams needs
14:21:40 <mizmo> maybe i should pull up an etherpad
14:21:50 <decause> i think we could add maybe one or two more
14:22:03 <decause> badges itself?
14:22:17 <pingou> I'm seeing at least two things here
14:22:17 <mizmo> that makes sense
14:22:20 <pingou> a) widgets
14:22:24 <pingou> b) the plateform
14:22:28 <mizmo> yes!
14:22:37 <mizmo> and we gotta figure out the platform bits we need bare minimum for flock
14:22:40 <mizmo> https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/fedora-hubs-roadmap
14:22:41 <pingou> and w/o b, having a is a little like putting the horse in front of the cariage
14:23:01 <mizmo> yep
14:23:08 <decause> the spirit is "places that don't get as much attention/places with lower barrier to entry.
14:23:10 <pingou> but here I don't know what will be the best flow:
14:23:17 <pingou> - create the plateform, then the widgets
14:23:30 <pingou> - create the widgets and see what changes are needed to the plateform to have them working
14:23:58 <pingou> I feel like the first flow is better, but I could see us missing some things that we would need later
14:24:07 <mizmo> pingou: i think these things are always messy
14:24:08 <pingou> ending up with the second glow
14:24:13 <pingou> flow*
14:24:19 <mizmo> we'll definitely end up doing some in the second flow
14:24:20 <pingou> yeah I guess, it'll be a mix of both
14:24:29 <mizmo> the widgets will kind of dictate things that are needed too
14:24:35 <pingou> but I don't want to have too many widgets in, before we have a structure for them
14:24:38 <mizmo> but there are definitely basic platform bits that are needed no matter what
14:24:40 <mizmo> exactly
14:25:11 <mizmo> well let's start from the beginning
14:25:33 <pingou> then there is a third kind: widgets that need changes to another app
14:25:39 <pingou> (badges, new meeting...)
14:25:42 <mizmo> oh right
14:25:57 <mizmo> what would we call that? changes to provider apps?
14:26:07 <decause> infra hooked widgets
14:26:14 <pingou> and the login/lost password flow will have a pretty big impact there
14:26:21 <pingou> (fas2 vs fas3 & so on)
14:26:26 <mizmo> yeh
14:27:24 * mizmo looking up something
14:27:27 <decause> I think there is the basic "story" that we've been telling folks as a baseline too:
14:27:44 <decause> "All the disperate places that make up a subproject, in one place"
14:28:33 <mizmo> yeh so we want to try to capture that as best we can for the teams we've hand-picked in terms of the infra they make use of
14:28:34 <decause> so that means, to me: Mailing list, Tickets, Wiki, IRC(ish), Badges
14:28:35 <mizmo> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/fedoradesign/fedora-hubs/master/.archive/mockup.png
14:28:37 <decause> at the least
14:28:49 <mizmo> this has a login flow but i dont know if that is what we want
14:28:49 <decause> I think we can "commits" there too for certain project repos
14:29:04 <mizmo> IRC would be such a big win
14:29:21 <decause> mizmo: we kinda denied the IRC GSoC candidate though
14:29:32 <decause> so that may be a 'later' one
14:29:37 <mizmo> which is fair
14:29:42 <decause> I think we can *absolutely* do meeting logs/calendar though
14:29:47 <decause> we already have that infra
14:29:55 <pingou> decause: because rntpro and sayan are on it
14:30:05 <decause> pingou: oh word? ok :)
14:30:16 <pingou> decause: adding meetings to fedocal from hubs will require changes to fedocal
14:30:29 <sayan> decause: our plan is to integrate things before flock
14:30:31 <decause> pingou: nod nod
14:30:46 <decause> also, the "join" button making folks "apply" to a FAS Group?
14:30:48 <pingou> but larger changes since it involves API key and how to get it and from where and FAS2 vs FAS3, w/ ipsilon in the mix
14:30:59 <mizmo> decause: yeh the join button should be a FAS group apply
14:31:05 <decause> and "subscribe" making folks subscribe to a ML?
14:31:21 <decause> those are base-level infra hooked widgets
14:31:39 <mizmo> decause: subscribe is different, subscribe means it shows up in your nav bar and you can get notifications for it
14:31:46 <decause> mizmo: right right, sorry
14:31:56 <decause> so, then "join" also subscribes to ML maybe?
14:32:07 <decause> or there is just a button on the hyperkitty widget?
14:32:10 <pingou> tbh, I am not sure the whole integration with FAS can be done by flock
14:32:28 <decause> pingou: nod nod nod
14:32:30 <pingou> we do not have a FAS3 instance running anywhere, so having one set-up and adjusted for hubs seems really ambitious
14:32:40 <mizmo> decause: i'd be hesitant to make joining a hub be an ML subscribe - they can read the ML posts in the hub itself, and if they go to reply thru the hyperkitty link, the first reply action will autosubscribe them
14:32:51 <mizmo> pingou: ugh :(
14:32:57 <decause> mizmo: sounds very UX good idea
14:33:08 <pingou> and adjusting FAS2 for hubs is imho a no-go
14:33:13 <decause> pingou: yeah, I suppose we don't want to build the hooks into FAS2 if we're going to leave it behind...
14:33:20 <decause> that makes sense
14:33:24 <decause> who is on FAS3?
14:33:28 <mizmo> pingou: is there a roadmap for FAS3 to be deployed?
14:33:41 <pingou> SmootherFrOgZ is leading FAS3
14:33:47 <pingou> Patrick and I are tagging along
14:33:59 <pingou> mizmo: hoping to get a stg instance before the summer
14:34:00 <decause> pingou: nod nod nod
14:34:16 <decause> pingou: what about something like a shim, that just sends an email to the FAS group admin?
14:34:19 <pingou> I need to plan a meeting to follow-up with Patrick and Xavier on Fas3
14:34:26 <pingou> decause: wfm
14:34:30 <decause> to then be actually piped in later
14:34:30 <decause> yeah
14:34:49 <decause> pingou: cool
14:35:01 <decause> we're already going to be saying alot of "coming soon" as part of our Flock preso
14:35:13 <decause> so, it's ok if we have some major features coming down the pipe later
14:35:29 <decause> and, hopefully, we can draw more contribs and have a strong base of other mentors from GSoC grads too
14:35:38 <sayan> pingou: what's archive hub?
14:35:38 <mizmo> well for the ones that require external app changes we should figure out which ones are the easiest wins
14:35:49 <decause> mizmo: def
14:35:56 <pingou> sayan: old projects that are no longer dev/to be followed
14:36:10 <mizmo> sayan: archive hubs definitely not a high priority for starting out :)
14:36:31 <mizmo> an example would be when we closed the fedora artwork team and changed to be the fedora design team
14:36:51 <pingou> mizmo: agreed, but on the other hand it's pretty self-contained and easy to do (flip a status, hide the hub from a couple of places)
14:37:03 <mizmo> ah true
14:37:23 <mizmo> is login / reset password FAS dependent?
14:37:32 <decause> If I was going to "Imagine" a tech demo at Flock, it would look something like:
14:37:38 <decause> Log in
14:37:39 <pingou> FAS2 doesn't have password lost
14:37:45 <pingou> login is done via ipsilon
14:37:51 <decause> auto-generated individual hub (awesome)
14:38:07 <decause> auto-subscribed to team hubs I'm part of in FAS
14:38:39 <decause> go to team hub
14:38:48 <decause> show we "all the parts in one place"
14:39:05 <decause> say "maybe I wanna join a new team"
14:39:13 <mizmo> pingou: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/user/resetpass
14:39:18 <decause> go to new hub, subscribe, see badges path widget
14:39:19 <pingou> mizmo: btw, login will remain in ipsilon, also after FAS3
14:39:24 <pingou> mizmo: that's not password lost :)
14:39:41 <mizmo> oh that's what i meant! is password lost with no email either?
14:39:43 <pingou> oh
14:40:02 <pingou> mizmo: you're right it is for password lost
14:40:30 * pingou too used to the case 'I've lost my password and my email account'
14:40:42 <mizmo> ipsilon for login is great but i wonder how we make password recovery available
14:40:54 <mizmo> (i dont think we had ipsilon when the login mocks were done)
14:41:34 <pingou> we could add a link in ipsilon pointing to this page in FAS?
14:41:41 <mizmo> yeh that'd make sense
14:41:48 <sayan> In general Ipsilon should have a link
14:42:25 * pingou makes a ticket to ipsilon
14:42:48 <mizmo> is hubs compelling if we can't handle fas group joining? (in essence, joining hubs?)
14:43:24 <decause> mizmo: we can shim it we said
14:43:39 <decause> aka, have an email sent to FAS Group Admin
14:43:50 <pingou> mizmo: since hubs in read only, I don't see why we should restrict hubs to group members
14:44:08 <pingou> I'm not in the design group, but I probably wouldn't mind subscribe to the design hub
14:44:17 <decause> pingou: we want this to be a pipeline for adding new contribs
14:44:22 <pingou> or we could have 'private' hubs
14:44:28 <decause> as much as a "fancy" view on what is already there
14:44:30 <pingou> requiring to be in a group
14:44:42 <puiterwijk> pingou: note that the fedora theme is not in upstream Ipsilon. So that's an infra ticket or design team ticket
14:44:45 <decause> pingou: that would be a good usecase for council
14:44:53 <pingou> decause: well, following that pipeline will get them into the group in FAS, but for hubs?
14:45:01 <pingou> puiterwijk: roger, thanks
14:45:02 <mizmo> pingou: well subscribe is how you follow a group, but join is how you join the fas group and become a member
14:45:08 <mizmo> pingou: subscribe=>lurk, join=> member
14:45:13 <decause> what mizmo said
14:45:35 <pingou> ok, so we wouldn't have the join feature in then
14:45:45 <mizmo> puiterwijk: ipsilon is fedora themed now though, is that a downstream patch?
14:45:45 <kushal> Just wondering about the gsoc student
14:46:02 <pingou> hi kushal :)
14:46:08 <devyani7> hi kushal :)
14:46:30 * decause waves to kushal
14:46:33 <decause> which one?
14:46:33 <kushal> devyani7, ah, you are there.
14:46:47 <decause> kushal: we have a handful of others too
14:46:48 <puiterwijk> mizmo: the Ipsilon theme is downstream for fedora
14:46:50 <kushal> decause, devyani7 :)
14:46:58 <puiterwijk> Ask ryanlerch as to where as he made it recently
14:47:09 <pingou> puiterwijk: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/5263 :]
14:47:12 <puiterwijk> mizmo: the entire current theme is custom
14:47:24 <ryanlerch> hai!
14:47:34 <mizmo> puiterwijk: i would expect a theme to be downstream tho no?
14:47:38 <mizmo> hey ryanlerch
14:47:57 <decause> ok, we're at 75% of the way through the hour
14:48:01 <mizmo> eek
14:48:05 <puiterwijk> mizmo: in this case we are downstream. And yes we have a custom theme.. So I think I'm missing your point?
14:48:11 <decause> I think we've made some good progress here
14:48:24 <decause> but we should think about "for next time" stuff
14:48:49 <mizmo> puiterwijk: OHHH i totally misread what you said i thought you were suggesting having the theme go upstream, osrry, i'm stupid
14:49:19 <puiterwijk> mizmo: I said it's NOT upstream :)
14:49:29 <mizmo> puiterwijk: i know, i'm silly :)
14:49:43 * ryanlerch is in the middle of the stream
14:50:19 <mizmo> how are we with the hyperkitty widget
14:51:23 <pingou> the idea there is to link to HK right?
14:51:43 <pingou> no 'reply here' widget (since it's in HK already), correct?
14:51:49 <mizmo> pingou: yeh, layer 1 anyway would be to display at least an excerpt of the convo with some stats if we have them (# comments, # participants) and link to the HK thread
14:52:04 <mizmo> pingou: ideally i'd like people to be able to write a quick reply in hubs too but i know that's more complex
14:52:27 <ryanlerch> mizmo: any idea if that is possible with the current HK api?
14:52:29 <pingou> mizmo: it would require us to figure out central-auth
14:52:35 <pingou> which may make puiterwijk happy :)
14:52:43 <mizmo> ryanlerch: i dont know but im guessing not
14:52:53 <ryanlerch> last time i looked, it was pretty sparse (that was a while ago tho)
14:52:59 * ryanlerch can look into that
14:53:01 <puiterwijk> pingou: which I've figured out just need to get code reviewed
14:53:12 <decause> puiterwijk++
14:53:13 <decause> nice!
14:53:27 <puiterwijk> I have the code ready. Just waiting for time from one of the co maintainers to help with review as its a big patch
14:53:30 <mizmo> puiterwijk++
14:53:41 <pingou> puiterwijk: same protocol or new one?
14:53:54 <puiterwijk> pingou: openid connect and its oath2
14:53:59 <puiterwijk> Oauth2
14:54:10 <mizmo> oh one big platform thing we dont have in the list yet is the bookmarks bar, we have one in the code now but it'll probably need some refinement
14:54:31 <pingou> puiterwijk: cool
14:54:48 <pingou> puiterwijk: will that require changes to our app?
14:54:52 <puiterwijk> Any other info anyone wants from me at the moment?
14:55:04 <puiterwijk> pingou: I have flask fas openid for it.
14:55:09 <mizmo> puiterwijk: if someone logs into hubs, when would the login time out
14:55:26 <puiterwijk> mizmo: depends on what we do. That's configurable
14:55:45 * mizmo likes longer auth sessions
14:55:58 <puiterwijk> pingou: I have a patch for Python fedora basically but I'm waiting with getting that reviewed until I get the Ipsilon patch accepted
14:56:05 <pingou> puiterwijk: but we still need to port to it, right?
14:56:10 <puiterwijk> mizmo: I know. Not just you. And we'll get there
14:56:16 <mizmo> how much do we want to care about mobile?
14:56:21 <puiterwijk> pingou: yes. But I have patches for most things
14:56:26 <pingou> puiterwijk: ok cool
14:56:39 <puiterwijk> As said I'm just holding on until the Ipsilon protocol is accepted
14:57:46 <mizmo> devyani7: are any of these looking like appealing things to work on?
14:57:48 <sayan> mizmo: afaik devyani7 would be working on the bookmarks bar during GSoC
14:57:53 <mizmo> oh okay great!
14:57:59 <pingou> the meeting reminder widget is there no?
14:57:59 <puiterwijk> mizmo: as soon as we get single login and logout, which I'm working on, we can have longer auth sessions. But that's outside of The scope of this meeting.
14:58:03 <devyani7> mizmo: yup that^^^
14:58:13 <mizmo> yep i have that in the list pingou
14:58:22 <mizmo> puiterwijk: ahh okay very glad it's in the roadmap
14:58:41 <pingou> mizmo: I think we can cross it :)
14:58:42 <devyani7> :P
14:58:47 <decause> mizmo: alot
14:58:50 <decause> I think
14:58:57 <decause> bootstrap will help us here
14:59:10 <mizmo> pingou: do you have thoughts on what eric will work on?
14:59:12 <decause> re: mobile
14:59:28 <decause> mizmo: think like tahrir, which looks pretty ok on mobile
14:59:31 <mizmo> decause: my main worry is our reliance on modals, i wonder if bootstrap has something built in for those on mobile
14:59:45 <decause> mizmo: we have modals? :P
14:59:49 <decause> I didn't notice many yet
14:59:53 <pingou> decause: you haven't run hubs in a while :)
15:00:01 <decause> pingou: obv
15:00:04 <mizmo> decause: yeh the widget config is modal
15:00:08 <decause> gotcha
15:00:12 <pingou> widget config and widget add
15:00:20 <decause> mizmo: there is modal support in bootstrap AFIAK, yes
15:00:26 <mizmo> ok phew
15:00:38 <pingou> that's where we get them from
15:00:39 <decause> bootstrap++
15:00:42 <mizmo> its sort of a nice to have, but it's also really a good clean way of developing to make it mobile compatible to start
15:00:47 <pingou> but I wonder how they look on mobile
15:00:50 <ryanlerch> mizmo: the modals in use in hubs are the bs ones, AFAICT
15:01:14 <mizmo> threebean made a testing/development instance for us but i dont know how to update the code running on it
15:01:18 <mizmo> but that would be a good way to test mobile
15:01:21 <pingou> I know
15:01:23 <decause> ok, we're at the top of the hour folks
15:01:31 <decause> I'll talk to threebean about pushing to prod
15:01:46 <decause> #action decause talk to threebean about pushing to testing instance
15:01:47 <pingou> decause: I can do it, no need to bother Ralph for this :)
15:01:50 <mizmo> well we have a start at a roadmap :)
15:01:52 <decause> #undo
15:01:52 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: ACTION by decause at 15:01:46 : decause talk to threebean about pushing to testing instance
15:02:00 <decause> #action decause talk to pingou about pushing to testing instance
15:02:06 <decause> :)
15:02:15 <ryanlerch> i think we need to add a meta tag to get it the mobile responsive stuff scaling properly though
15:02:16 <pingou> #action pingou talk to decause about pushing to testing instance
15:02:18 * puiterwijk notes prod != testing
15:02:27 <mizmo> sayan, you are interested in the badges implementation right? ill put your name down on it?
15:02:39 <sayan> mizmo: yes
15:02:48 <ryanlerch> mizmo: on the badges side?
15:02:50 * decause will make sure we ahve the paths identified, and designed (with design team)
15:02:53 <pingou> mizmo: I honestly do not know what both interns will be doing
15:03:02 <mizmo> sayan: \o/
15:03:05 <decause> pingou: hubs interns?
15:03:07 <decause> pagure interns?
15:03:11 <pingou> decause: hubs :)
15:03:12 <mizmo> ryanlerch: it'll involve both i think
15:03:17 <ryanlerch> intern interns?
15:03:23 <puiterwijk> If nobody needs me anymore I'm heading off for PTO again :)
15:03:23 <pingou> decause: for pagure it's easy, they did their own roadmap :)
15:03:26 <pingou> ryanlerch: RH interns
15:03:28 <pingou> puiterwijk: have fun
15:03:32 <decause> pingou: we're starting with "where do we want to get to" so that we can have a buffet of tasks, and then allocate
15:03:35 <mizmo> PTO! puiterwijk get out of here and go have fun (and get some sleep lol)
15:03:45 <ryanlerch> PTO!
15:03:48 <decause> puiterwijk++
15:03:48 <mizmo> thank you for being here tho :)
15:03:51 <decause> PTO!
15:03:53 <mizmo> puiterwijk+++++++++++++++
15:03:54 <ryanlerch> puiterwijk++
15:04:03 <ryanlerch> no cookies for you
15:04:17 <puiterwijk> :) okay, bye
15:04:29 <decause> pingou: we're getting closer to our "what is the end-state"
15:04:33 <decause> for Flock
15:04:39 <decause> that will *really* help
15:04:45 <ryanlerch> there goes my only friend online in my TZ :D
15:04:55 <ryanlerch> farewell puiterwijk !
15:05:00 <decause> I've got a rough workflow of a demo, but it could prolly use a reality check
15:05:05 <decause> it's in the etherpad
15:05:25 <mizmo> ryanlerch, puiterwijk is in everyone's TZ :)
15:05:32 * ryanlerch disappears too, its 1am and im a little loopy
15:05:38 <mizmo> ryanlerch: sleep!!!
15:05:39 <pingou> - Shows FAS Groups you are in <- that's a widget we do not have
15:05:45 <pingou> ryanlerch: sleep tight
15:05:51 <pingou> and thanks for being there as well :)
15:05:56 <sayan> ryanlerch: sleep well!
15:06:12 <mizmo> oh
15:06:19 <mizmo> that reminds me theres some filtering we gotta do on FAS data
15:06:21 <mizmo> eg
15:06:22 <decause> ryanlerch: thanks
15:06:29 <mizmo> there shouldn't be hubs for git commit groups IMHO
15:06:45 <pingou> mizmo: def
15:07:49 <mizmo> how do we do that kind of filtering? i guess we worry about it when we have the data?
15:07:59 <mizmo> should that be a roadmap work item?
15:08:22 <pingou> I seem to remember Ralph having worked up on something for this
15:09:13 <mizmo> well he wrote a python script that populates hubs based on fas groups
15:09:17 <mizmo> i dont know if it does any filtering though
15:09:48 <mizmo> oh one thing too - unrelated
15:09:54 <mizmo> are we doing a *demo* or flock, or a *launch* ?
15:09:59 <mizmo> (feels like demo might be better)
15:10:10 <pingou> demo
15:10:11 <pingou> def demo
15:10:30 <pingou> badges was launched at flock, and we burned out one of the dev then :)
15:11:05 <pingou> demo is fine, if we have a 0.1 running I'm fine with announcing it
15:11:16 <mizmo> okay cool let's make the goal explicitly demo then
15:11:19 <pingou> but it definitely will not be: here, have at it, it's working
15:11:59 <mizmo> im always scared of the fedora community app problem happening again
15:12:04 <mizmo> or an extent, the fedora packages app
15:12:12 <mizmo> launch, excitement, then goes dead
15:12:13 <sayan> can be: it's here, explore it?
15:12:39 <mizmo> sayan: maybe more like, look at this demo, do you see the potential? how could a tool like this help your team?
15:12:58 <pingou> having a cloud instance to expose
15:13:05 <pingou> or maybe even stg
15:13:16 <pingou> would allow more people to check it out
15:14:11 <pingou> so demo + cloud instance at min
15:14:20 <pingou> demo + stg/prod 0.1 at best
15:14:25 <mizmo> if we're focusing on 3-4 specific teams
15:14:30 <mizmo> is it possible to make demo accounts
15:14:37 <mizmo> so they could understand from that perspective what it will look like?
15:14:48 <mizmo> bc if i'm a packager and i log in and i dont see packager widgets, i might give up on the whole thing
15:15:14 <mizmo> but if i log in as Beefy Miracle, Artist Extraordinaire, then i see how it would look for a designer, and i maybe get the concept better
15:15:55 <mizmo> a lot of app demo sites use this idea, of making a fake user account to make sure they're demoing to their strengths
15:16:00 <pingou> well, we already have bodhi updates, pending ACLs requests, bugzilla tickets widgets
15:16:02 <mizmo> and that you dont get an empty login area
15:16:12 <pingou> so for packagers there is already a base
15:16:17 <mizmo> pingou: together tho, they don't make a compelling designed UX for packagers though
15:16:29 <mizmo> pingou: i want the 3 teams we picked to have an awesome initial experience
15:16:37 <pingou> mizmo: but they do provide useful info
15:16:41 <pingou> mizmo: agreed on this
15:16:53 <mizmo> pingou: packagers are so hard to impress tho... *nightmares about fedora community app :( *
15:16:56 * decause had another call, but wants to chime in
15:17:10 <mizmo> during usability testing, "oh, that is cool. i have command line tools and scripts that automate this tho."
15:17:18 <decause> I think we def should do a demo, but if we don't 'launch' at Flock, when would we do it?
15:17:40 <mizmo> i'd like to see a launch end of 2016
15:17:57 <mizmo> i think it could be doable if we were all really focused. i think it could be an amazing launch
15:18:11 <mizmo> im pretty much all in on hubs at this point, most of my compass goals are for it
15:18:49 * decause has a large number of compass goals on Hubs, and has already publicly declared "yes, 2016 is the year we make hubs happen"
15:19:07 <mizmo> merry christmas, here are your hubs
15:19:41 <decause> I mean, the 'killer' feature is really "all your stuff in one place, and you don't need to do anything* to configure it."
15:20:05 <decause> if there is configuration that needs to be done, it is my goal that commops members can be the ones to admin hubs that do not have "owners"
15:20:32 <decause> having the Hub be the new place to point your contribs to with questions is crucial
15:20:34 <mizmo> decause: that makes a lot of sense
15:20:52 <decause> like, right now, someone says "I wanna join/help, where do I go?"
15:20:57 <decause> we point to 7 diff places
15:21:03 <mizmo> decause: quick q - i'm not as good working with fedmsg - is there a way i can view raw fedmsg data for any given user?
15:21:10 <decause> mizmo: yes, def
15:21:11 <mizmo> i'd like to look thru the fedmsg streams of users in our target groups
15:21:18 <decause> happy to help with that
15:21:24 <decause> mizmo: we have a repo in commops
15:21:28 <decause> that has example scripts
15:21:31 * decause digs for it
15:21:32 <pingou> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/datagrepper/raw?user=duffy
15:21:47 <sayan> pingou: +1
15:21:48 <mizmo> \o/ thanks pingou
15:21:51 <pingou> click on the JSON to get the raw message
15:21:59 <decause> mizmo: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/datagrepper/raw?user=decause
15:22:12 <decause> mizmo: the datagrepper API is *amazing*
15:22:15 <decause> but
15:22:17 <pingou> the text is from fedmsg_meta that converts fedmsg messages to human readable description (short or long), icon, url...
15:22:19 <decause> it's expensive to query
15:22:25 <mizmo> i'm going to go thru and code these - we may want to filter the firehose for feed widget consumption
15:22:30 <decause> this is why we need statscache
15:22:40 <mizmo> statscache should be on the roadmap then
15:22:46 <decause> mizmo: threebean has been working on "conglomeration"
15:22:48 <mizmo> is statscache something for eric or symon to work on?
15:22:53 <pingou> decause: statscache isn't quite for that
15:23:05 <pingou> statscache is for stats based on fedmsg message
15:23:07 <decause> mizmo: statscache is something I'm hoping skamath will work on
15:23:10 <pingou> not for caching info
15:23:16 <decause> our commops intern #2
15:23:28 <mizmo> decause: okay cool i have skamath on it in the etherpad
15:23:41 <pingou> we have conglomerators and hubs' own cache system for caching
15:24:02 <pingou> mizmo: the feed widget will be based on FMN's preferences
15:24:37 <pingou> where we would add a new place for message (in addition to irc and email) which would be 'hubs'
15:24:39 <mizmo> pingou: that's a lot of individual user config tho
15:24:54 <mizmo> pingou: it makes sense for individual user feeds though. but for team/project feeds?
15:24:58 <sayan> mizmo: decause: I am these days working on statscache specifically on this issue - https://github.com/fedora-infra/statscache/issues/50
15:25:13 <pingou> mizmo: the idea then is that each team would have its set of fmn rules that be added to the user's
15:25:32 <mizmo> pingou: how do the teams rules get configured?
15:25:58 <pingou> mizmo: no decision on this yet, I'd think FMN
15:26:08 <decause> sayan: so, having skamath work with you is going ot be crucial when figuring out what they're doing
15:26:33 <mizmo> pingou: okay, and is there priority / overriding between a user's FMN config and the group FMN config? or does the users FMN config only control their own news feed, and the team's only control the team newsfeed?
15:26:40 <mizmo> (does that make sense what i'm asking?)
15:27:09 <pingou> mizmo: all good questions to which I do not have an answer right now
15:27:20 <mizmo> pingou: lol it's all good, ill make sure there's items for it on the roadmap
15:27:39 <pingou> hubs is going to impact quite a few projects
15:27:47 <decause> mizmo: perhaps we can create a user for a hub in FAS, that way FMN works the same way as it would for a peson?
15:27:59 <decause> that would also allow us to have "hubs" badges...
15:28:03 <mizmo> decause: well, we already have fas groups for hubs - so maybe FMN could support groups
15:28:06 <decause> which we have *not* discussed yet
15:28:09 <mizmo> as if a group was a user
15:28:18 <pingou> FMN, statscache aren't part of hubs' plateform itself :)
15:28:19 <mizmo> decause: where a hub can earn badges?
15:28:28 <mizmo> pingou: oh nuts, you're right
15:28:33 <decause> mizmo: yeah, but that's a "new" idea
15:28:41 <decause> like, 1 minute ago
15:28:42 <decause> :P
15:28:44 <mizmo> pingou: they're not widgets though. "platform-supporting infra" ?
15:28:46 <decause> Layer 4
15:28:49 <mizmo> decause: lol
15:28:59 <pingou> mizmo: +1
15:29:04 <mizmo> decause: i like the old terms, "missions" for badge series
15:29:09 <mizmo> decause: and hub badges? could be team trophys
15:29:47 <decause> sure sure, I'm good with vocab'ing how we decide later
15:29:51 <pingou> mizmo: they aren't widgets but they are apps we'll need to adjust for some widgets
15:30:01 <mizmo> oh okay
15:30:06 <pingou> (where did we put those? ^^)
15:30:11 <mizmo> i moved them back
15:30:13 <mizmo> sorry
15:30:22 <decause> wed has become a crazy meeting day for me too...
15:30:30 <decause> I'm in 2 irc meetings and one conf call right now
15:30:39 <decause> #FCLPeopleProblems
15:30:43 <pingou> decause++
15:30:45 * jflory7 is partially around but unable to make this meeting time slot on Wednesdays, sends regrets
15:30:47 <mizmo> decause is gumby getting pulled
15:31:09 <decause> htis meeting is getting most of my attention tho ;)
15:31:19 * decause checks elsewhere quick
15:31:23 <mizmo> ah so we need a zanata widget
15:31:30 * pingou apologizes to the other meetings for pulling decause
15:31:38 <pingou> mizmo: def!
15:32:15 <mizmo> pingou: does the meeting display widget show upcoming meetings as well?
15:32:18 <decause> pingou: s'ok, I'm a regular FAMSCo lurker, today they didn't need me as much as usual
15:32:22 <mizmo> or just the standard / regular meeting time
15:32:28 <pingou> mizmo: it shows the next meeting in that calendar
15:32:33 <mizmo> oh okay great
15:32:47 <mizmo> meeting logs is integration with m0te
15:32:48 <pingou> sometime more than one
15:32:49 <decause> mizmo: yeah, Zanata also needs badges too
15:32:59 <decause> zanata is *brandnew* on fedmsg
15:33:01 <decause> the newest
15:33:02 <pingou> I need to check how it's computed
15:33:12 <pingou> decause: after bugzilla? :)
15:33:16 <decause> along with BZ and
15:33:20 <decause> pingou: yes :)
15:33:27 * devyani7 reads about zanata
15:33:31 <mizmo> we have BZ now!
15:33:34 * pingou thoughts bugzilla was newer
15:33:35 <mizmo> \o/
15:33:47 <decause> our next commops hack session (after this week) is going to be a badges session
15:33:56 <decause> so long as there are no other fires
15:34:00 <mizmo> pingou: is trac support for the tickets widget hard? better to try to move the 3 teams over to pagure?
15:34:11 <decause> pingou: zanata is even newer than BZ
15:34:16 <decause> but still, both need badges
15:34:24 <decause> along with another new one for mailing lists...
15:34:30 <decause> which is def a deep rabbit hole
15:34:33 <decause> of awesome :)
15:34:39 <pingou> mizmo: shouldn't be too difficult, if the trac instance enables xml-rpc
15:34:54 <mizmo> we have a few styles for the widget https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/1
15:35:21 <decause> mizmo: we could manually do so if we needed to (commops would be willing to help)
15:35:24 <decause> but yes
15:35:26 <pingou> mizmo: one thing I see about these is the number of tickets in them
15:35:29 <decause> we def would prefer a script
15:35:32 <decause> brb
15:35:40 <pingou> basically seeing 4 tickets seems, useless for my use case
15:35:56 * sayan was away for a bit. reads the log
15:36:00 <pingou> pagure has quite a bunch of tickets atm, hubs has 69
15:36:13 <pingou> so seeing them all is bad, but seen 4 doesn't help me much
15:36:27 <mizmo> pingou: where would you see only 4 tickets?
15:36:55 <mizmo> the widget? the idea with the widget is that there are different templates you can use for it -
15:37:04 <mizmo> so it might show the 4 newest tickets that haven't been traiged
15:37:08 <mizmo> triaged
15:37:18 <mizmo> or it might show the 4 tickets that are waiting on you to take action
15:37:21 <pingou> and if we start to mix all the sources: pagure/pagure pagure/hubs fedorahosted/fedocal github/pkgdb2 bugzilla... then 4 tickets is nothing :(
15:37:22 <mizmo> or tickets you filed
15:37:31 <mizmo> well
15:37:48 <mizmo> i think there would be another component here, where you'd click on 'view more' and get a more full list
15:38:01 <mizmo> what i was thinking with this (and this is maybe going to involve some new platform features)
15:38:18 <mizmo> is the right-hand side ticket widget gives you the most important 4/5 tickets in the category, and you can click view more,
15:38:30 <mizmo> and it takes you to a subpage in hubs, where there's a left-hand side tickets widget that has a more full list
15:39:00 <mizmo> the personal ticket widget would be a compilation of your tickets across sytems, so there's no place to link them out externally
15:39:09 <mizmo> so having a page in hubs itself that aggregates the ticket data i think makes sense
15:39:23 <mizmo> for the team ones - i dont think any teams use more than one ticketing system, so youcould link out externally in their cases
15:39:54 * pingou isn't sure about the agregation
15:40:05 <pingou> but I guess we can make it optional
15:40:19 <pingou> infra uses github, fedorahosted and pagure
15:40:48 <pingou> (might not be the best example :))
15:40:52 <mizmo> pingou: oh wow
15:40:59 <mizmo> so that is even a case
15:41:09 <pingou> oh and gitlab (for HK)
15:41:17 <pingou> each project may be hosted anywhere
15:41:30 <mizmo> i think the aggregation is crucial
15:41:34 <pingou> mizmo: but I'm not sure we should consider this case
15:41:37 <mizmo> thats one of the big wins of using hubs for users
15:41:59 <pingou> mizmo: I'm not, I've 96 tickets on pagure, 69 on hubs, ~15 on pkgdb
15:42:14 <pingou> I want to be able to have multiple ticket widget, each one for their own project
15:42:22 <pingou> or maybe do a mix model
15:42:27 <mizmo> you have to log into multiple different systems to figure out what's waiting on you ticket wise
15:42:35 <pingou> 1 widget for pagure, 1 for hub, 1 for the others
15:42:39 <mizmo> well wiat
15:42:45 <mizmo> so there's two ticket widgets
15:42:50 <mizmo> theres the ticket widget for teams/projects
15:42:54 <mizmo> which is what you're talking about
15:43:00 <mizmo> but there's also *user* ticket widgets
15:43:09 <pingou> I was thinking user hus
15:43:11 <pingou> hubs*
15:43:28 * decause fumbles through the conf call a bit...
15:43:31 <decause> maybe gushed too much
15:43:34 <decause> but, had a lot to say
15:43:36 <decause> :P
15:43:58 <mizmo> the two templates i thought of for user hub ticket widget were:
15:44:03 <pingou> mizmo: anyway your mockup are showing that the agregation can be done or not
15:44:19 <pingou> so it'll be up to the user/hub admin to pick what they want
15:44:23 <mizmo> - tickets waiting on me (eg needsinfo in BZ, forget the trac equivalent)
15:44:38 <pingou> (there isn't in trac)
15:44:49 <mizmo> pingou: (there is, it's blocked by)
15:44:58 <pingou> that's dependency between tickets
15:44:59 <mizmo> pingou: oh! but yeh you have a good point about config
15:45:10 * devyani7 gets dinner, before it gets over ! brb :)
15:45:11 <mizmo> in design team we put user names in that field o_O and it works
15:45:18 <pingou> oh?
15:45:29 <pingou> I always thought that was for ticket id only
15:45:32 <mizmo> i dont know if it nags them, but we use it to generate a report of tickets that are blocked by people
15:45:42 <pingou> that's cool :)
15:45:44 <mizmo> heh
15:45:53 <mizmo> i guess we use it wrong though :( i didnt realize
15:45:55 <decause> yeah, tha twould be *amazing*
15:46:00 <decause> blocker widget
15:46:04 <mizmo> anyway! youre absolutely right about the user ticket widget config -
15:46:04 <decause> for the individual hub
15:46:12 <decause> "you are blocking the following things"
15:46:15 <decause> lolol
15:46:17 <mizmo> i think the user should, if they want, add three separate ticket widgets and configure each for a different project
15:46:19 <mizmo> OR
15:46:32 <mizmo> they could elect to configure one widget with three projects configured to it
15:46:39 <pingou> sounds good
15:46:42 <decause> pingou: your new "priority" feature could be a good one for weighting which tickets show up in the widget too?
15:46:45 <mizmo> it's up to them what they want
15:46:47 <decause> in pagure
15:46:50 <pingou> might be challenging technically, but the idea is nice
15:46:58 <pingou> decause: sure
15:48:12 <mizmo> the overall goal for the user ticket widget is that folks get a sense of what they can work on
15:48:57 * mizmo looking at etherpad again
15:49:49 <mizmo> so we have two new widgets under commops too
15:50:18 <mizmo> - #halp widget (DNE)
15:50:20 <mizmo> - Release Tasks Countdown Widget (DNE)
15:50:35 * decause added those
15:50:45 <mizmo> i know theres a ticket for the #halp one
15:51:07 <decause> the 'countdown' widget I just kinda made up, sorry :P I guess it's a fedocal of the release schedule
15:51:26 <mizmo> decause: ah so i misunderstood what you meant by badges hub
15:51:31 <mizmo> thought you meant for the badges team
15:51:41 <decause> which, could also be *awesome*
15:51:41 <mizmo> i dont think we'll be able to do the grid for flock bc of the data model change requirement, no?
15:52:14 <decause> mizmo: we can use the tags and still make it happen, but the data model change shouldn't be so scary... I don't think it would...
15:52:18 <decause> I need a consult here
15:52:28 <decause> because I dunno what it would mean for fedmsg for instance
15:52:47 <decause> like, if we change the datamodel, would all of a sudden all the of badges resend fedmsgs?
15:53:25 <pingou> doubt so
15:53:47 <decause> mizmo: I was hesitatnt to talk about changing the data model just because I'm a scaredy-cat, and it's not something that I'd do myself wihtout lots of help. If we could get an 'expert' opinion from threebean/pingou/fedora-infra, that would be a better more informed place to start from
15:54:06 <decause> also: http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2016/04/26/plan-to-level-up-contributors-with-fedora-hubs/
15:54:10 <decause> this is amazing
15:59:02 <mizmo> i want to do blog posts like this to spec out stuff for the interns too
15:59:17 <decause> mizmo++
15:59:21 <decause> I'm with it
16:01:46 <decause> mizmo: so it looks like the meeting traffic has died down
16:01:50 <decause> should we close this one out?
16:01:53 <decause> #link http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2016/04/26/plan-to-level-up-contributors-with-fedora-hubs/
16:02:01 <mizmo> yeh maybe we should end meeting, i can try to summarize for the list
16:02:08 <pingou> #endmeeting