14:09:32 #startmeeting fedora-hubs 14:09:32 Meeting started Wed Apr 27 14:09:32 2016 UTC. The chair is pingou. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:09:32 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:09:32 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-hubs' 14:09:32 mizmo: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. 14:09:37 what! 14:09:39 #endmeeting 14:09:45 mizmo: I went first :-p 14:09:48 oh 14:09:52 #chair mizmo decause sayan 14:09:52 Current chairs: decause mizmo pingou sayan 14:09:58 phew 14:10:03 .hello decause 14:10:04 decause: decause 'Remy DeCausemaker' 14:10:09 .hello sayanchowdhury 14:10:10 sayan: sayanchowdhury 'Sayan Chowdhury' 14:10:14 .mynameis pingou 14:10:18 is pagure.io pagure2.0 right now? 14:10:20 .hello duffy 14:10:21 mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' 14:10:22 .hello devyani7 14:10:24 devyani7: devyani7 'Devyani Kota' 14:10:25 mizmo: even 2.0.1 :-p 14:10:34 .hello pingou 14:10:35 pingou: pingou 'Pierre-YvesChibon' 14:11:04 oh i see the priority column 14:11:14 it appeared when I added them 14:11:16 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issues?tags=!widget 14:11:28 looks like some widget-related tickets aren't tagged widgets 14:11:47 * pingou wonders if we do not have too many tags 14:12:21 thatisprolly my fault :P 14:12:43 i dont mind going thru and cleaning them up 14:12:45 decause: we may want to reduce on this :) 14:12:53 i think using prioirities is the right way to go 14:12:58 tags are handy when we can use them to group 14:13:14 mizmo: I could see us having a 'flock' tag and priorities inside it 14:13:29 nice 14:13:30 pingou: we have a FirefoxOS tag, but nothing in it... is there a way to delete them? https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issues?tags=FirefoxOS 14:13:43 oh i found it, it's in closed (sorry for the noise) 14:13:44 mizmo: the settings page has the list w/ all of them 14:14:06 pingou: what the utility of ! in tag? 14:14:08 yeah, that widget didn't work out all that well 14:14:14 sayan: exclude :-p 14:14:38 sayan: not really documented but I love using it :) (?tags=!widget -> all the tickets *not* tagged with 'widget') 14:14:46 pagure.issue.tag.removed -- duffy removed the FirefoxOS tags from ticket fedora-hubs#21 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/21 14:14:49 pagure.issue.edit -- duffy edited the priority fields of ticket fedora-hubs#21 https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/issue/21 14:15:17 yes, that's a helpful one 14:15:24 hm, it sets by default the priority to high, bummer :/ 14:16:07 i can do the triage to get the widget tags on the ones that are missing it too 14:16:21 i think to figure out what the priorities of things are we need to know where we want to be in time for flock 14:16:32 i think there's a few fundamental things we definitely need done - 14:16:42 the login / forgot password flow 14:17:02 the user's news feed 14:17:10 the user's profile 14:17:15 team hubs 14:17:30 i think we can't get all teams / all people with an amazing experience out the door for flock 14:17:53 probably not :) 14:17:57 so my proposal (feel free to blast it away) would be to pick 2-3 teams in fedora and try to prioritize widgets based on their needs 14:18:12 it's an old saying in UX (from Alan Cooper) -it's better to please 20% of users 90% than 90% of users 20% 14:18:18 we don't want to lose momentum or excitement 14:18:24 mizmo++ 14:18:41 we had this idea in the thursday meeting last week, that the teams we handpick, will go out at launch with fully-formed team pages 14:19:00 that'd be 2-3 teams 14:19:22 other teams beyond that would get a splash, something like, 'your team hub isn't set up yet' and maybe a button for the adminto go in and configure it 14:19:33 sounds good 14:19:53 so at least there's a clear narrative, hey, we're not done yet, we focused on these 2-3 teams, look what an awesome time they're having, i bet you can't wait for your turn, maybe you'll come talk to us about your needs :) 14:20:29 my proposal for the 2-3 teams to work on would be - not packagers. because they have enough toys! 14:20:47 decause - do you remember the teams we talked about? 14:20:51 design 14:21:00 yeh design is good because we know the case very well :) 14:21:03 translations? 14:21:05 g11n, design, and commops 14:21:11 forvstarters 14:21:11 yes! translations needs love 14:21:13 and commops 14:21:15 right 14:21:16 cool 14:21:21 so when prioritizing widgets we should think about these teams needs 14:21:40 maybe i should pull up an etherpad 14:21:50 i think we could add maybe one or two more 14:22:03 badges itself? 14:22:17 I'm seeing at least two things here 14:22:17 that makes sense 14:22:20 a) widgets 14:22:24 b) the plateform 14:22:28 yes! 14:22:37 and we gotta figure out the platform bits we need bare minimum for flock 14:22:40 https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/fedora-hubs-roadmap 14:22:41 and w/o b, having a is a little like putting the horse in front of the cariage 14:23:01 yep 14:23:08 the spirit is "places that don't get as much attention/places with lower barrier to entry. 14:23:10 but here I don't know what will be the best flow: 14:23:17 - create the plateform, then the widgets 14:23:30 - create the widgets and see what changes are needed to the plateform to have them working 14:23:58 I feel like the first flow is better, but I could see us missing some things that we would need later 14:24:07 pingou: i think these things are always messy 14:24:08 ending up with the second glow 14:24:13 flow* 14:24:19 we'll definitely end up doing some in the second flow 14:24:20 yeah I guess, it'll be a mix of both 14:24:29 the widgets will kind of dictate things that are needed too 14:24:35 but I don't want to have too many widgets in, before we have a structure for them 14:24:38 but there are definitely basic platform bits that are needed no matter what 14:24:40 exactly 14:25:11 well let's start from the beginning 14:25:33 then there is a third kind: widgets that need changes to another app 14:25:39 (badges, new meeting...) 14:25:42 oh right 14:25:57 what would we call that? changes to provider apps? 14:26:07 infra hooked widgets 14:26:14 and the login/lost password flow will have a pretty big impact there 14:26:21 (fas2 vs fas3 & so on) 14:26:26 yeh 14:27:24 * mizmo looking up something 14:27:27 I think there is the basic "story" that we've been telling folks as a baseline too: 14:27:44 "All the disperate places that make up a subproject, in one place" 14:28:33 yeh so we want to try to capture that as best we can for the teams we've hand-picked in terms of the infra they make use of 14:28:34 so that means, to me: Mailing list, Tickets, Wiki, IRC(ish), Badges 14:28:35 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/fedoradesign/fedora-hubs/master/.archive/mockup.png 14:28:37 at the least 14:28:49 this has a login flow but i dont know if that is what we want 14:28:49 I think we can "commits" there too for certain project repos 14:29:04 IRC would be such a big win 14:29:21 mizmo: we kinda denied the IRC GSoC candidate though 14:29:32 so that may be a 'later' one 14:29:37 which is fair 14:29:42 I think we can *absolutely* do meeting logs/calendar though 14:29:47 we already have that infra 14:29:55 decause: because rntpro and sayan are on it 14:30:05 pingou: oh word? ok :) 14:30:16 decause: adding meetings to fedocal from hubs will require changes to fedocal 14:30:29 decause: our plan is to integrate things before flock 14:30:31 pingou: nod nod 14:30:46 also, the "join" button making folks "apply" to a FAS Group? 14:30:48 but larger changes since it involves API key and how to get it and from where and FAS2 vs FAS3, w/ ipsilon in the mix 14:30:59 decause: yeh the join button should be a FAS group apply 14:31:05 and "subscribe" making folks subscribe to a ML? 14:31:21 those are base-level infra hooked widgets 14:31:39 decause: subscribe is different, subscribe means it shows up in your nav bar and you can get notifications for it 14:31:46 mizmo: right right, sorry 14:31:56 so, then "join" also subscribes to ML maybe? 14:32:07 or there is just a button on the hyperkitty widget? 14:32:10 tbh, I am not sure the whole integration with FAS can be done by flock 14:32:28 pingou: nod nod nod 14:32:30 we do not have a FAS3 instance running anywhere, so having one set-up and adjusted for hubs seems really ambitious 14:32:40 decause: i'd be hesitant to make joining a hub be an ML subscribe - they can read the ML posts in the hub itself, and if they go to reply thru the hyperkitty link, the first reply action will autosubscribe them 14:32:51 pingou: ugh :( 14:32:57 mizmo: sounds very UX good idea 14:33:08 and adjusting FAS2 for hubs is imho a no-go 14:33:13 pingou: yeah, I suppose we don't want to build the hooks into FAS2 if we're going to leave it behind... 14:33:20 that makes sense 14:33:24 who is on FAS3? 14:33:28 pingou: is there a roadmap for FAS3 to be deployed? 14:33:41 SmootherFrOgZ is leading FAS3 14:33:47 Patrick and I are tagging along 14:33:59 mizmo: hoping to get a stg instance before the summer 14:34:00 pingou: nod nod nod 14:34:16 pingou: what about something like a shim, that just sends an email to the FAS group admin? 14:34:19 I need to plan a meeting to follow-up with Patrick and Xavier on Fas3 14:34:26 decause: wfm 14:34:30 to then be actually piped in later 14:34:30 yeah 14:34:49 pingou: cool 14:35:01 we're already going to be saying alot of "coming soon" as part of our Flock preso 14:35:13 so, it's ok if we have some major features coming down the pipe later 14:35:29 and, hopefully, we can draw more contribs and have a strong base of other mentors from GSoC grads too 14:35:38 pingou: what's archive hub? 14:35:38 well for the ones that require external app changes we should figure out which ones are the easiest wins 14:35:49 mizmo: def 14:35:56 sayan: old projects that are no longer dev/to be followed 14:36:10 sayan: archive hubs definitely not a high priority for starting out :) 14:36:31 an example would be when we closed the fedora artwork team and changed to be the fedora design team 14:36:51 mizmo: agreed, but on the other hand it's pretty self-contained and easy to do (flip a status, hide the hub from a couple of places) 14:37:03 ah true 14:37:23 is login / reset password FAS dependent? 14:37:32 If I was going to "Imagine" a tech demo at Flock, it would look something like: 14:37:38 Log in 14:37:39 FAS2 doesn't have password lost 14:37:45 login is done via ipsilon 14:37:51 auto-generated individual hub (awesome) 14:38:07 auto-subscribed to team hubs I'm part of in FAS 14:38:39 go to team hub 14:38:48 show we "all the parts in one place" 14:39:05 say "maybe I wanna join a new team" 14:39:13 pingou: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/user/resetpass 14:39:18 go to new hub, subscribe, see badges path widget 14:39:19 mizmo: btw, login will remain in ipsilon, also after FAS3 14:39:24 mizmo: that's not password lost :) 14:39:41 oh that's what i meant! is password lost with no email either? 14:39:43 oh 14:40:02 mizmo: you're right it is for password lost 14:40:30 * pingou too used to the case 'I've lost my password and my email account' 14:40:42 ipsilon for login is great but i wonder how we make password recovery available 14:40:54 (i dont think we had ipsilon when the login mocks were done) 14:41:34 we could add a link in ipsilon pointing to this page in FAS? 14:41:41 yeh that'd make sense 14:41:48 In general Ipsilon should have a link 14:42:25 * pingou makes a ticket to ipsilon 14:42:48 is hubs compelling if we can't handle fas group joining? (in essence, joining hubs?) 14:43:24 mizmo: we can shim it we said 14:43:39 aka, have an email sent to FAS Group Admin 14:43:50 mizmo: since hubs in read only, I don't see why we should restrict hubs to group members 14:44:08 I'm not in the design group, but I probably wouldn't mind subscribe to the design hub 14:44:17 pingou: we want this to be a pipeline for adding new contribs 14:44:22 or we could have 'private' hubs 14:44:28 as much as a "fancy" view on what is already there 14:44:30 requiring to be in a group 14:44:42 pingou: note that the fedora theme is not in upstream Ipsilon. So that's an infra ticket or design team ticket 14:44:45 pingou: that would be a good usecase for council 14:44:53 decause: well, following that pipeline will get them into the group in FAS, but for hubs? 14:45:01 puiterwijk: roger, thanks 14:45:02 pingou: well subscribe is how you follow a group, but join is how you join the fas group and become a member 14:45:08 pingou: subscribe=>lurk, join=> member 14:45:13 what mizmo said 14:45:35 ok, so we wouldn't have the join feature in then 14:45:45 puiterwijk: ipsilon is fedora themed now though, is that a downstream patch? 14:45:45 Just wondering about the gsoc student 14:46:02 hi kushal :) 14:46:08 hi kushal :) 14:46:30 * decause waves to kushal 14:46:33 which one? 14:46:33 devyani7, ah, you are there. 14:46:47 kushal: we have a handful of others too 14:46:48 mizmo: the Ipsilon theme is downstream for fedora 14:46:50 decause, devyani7 :) 14:46:58 Ask ryanlerch as to where as he made it recently 14:47:09 puiterwijk: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/5263 :] 14:47:12 mizmo: the entire current theme is custom 14:47:24 hai! 14:47:34 puiterwijk: i would expect a theme to be downstream tho no? 14:47:38 hey ryanlerch 14:47:57 ok, we're at 75% of the way through the hour 14:48:01 eek 14:48:05 mizmo: in this case we are downstream. And yes we have a custom theme.. So I think I'm missing your point? 14:48:11 I think we've made some good progress here 14:48:24 but we should think about "for next time" stuff 14:48:49 puiterwijk: OHHH i totally misread what you said i thought you were suggesting having the theme go upstream, osrry, i'm stupid 14:49:19 mizmo: I said it's NOT upstream :) 14:49:29 puiterwijk: i know, i'm silly :) 14:49:43 * ryanlerch is in the middle of the stream 14:50:19 how are we with the hyperkitty widget 14:51:23 the idea there is to link to HK right? 14:51:43 no 'reply here' widget (since it's in HK already), correct? 14:51:49 pingou: yeh, layer 1 anyway would be to display at least an excerpt of the convo with some stats if we have them (# comments, # participants) and link to the HK thread 14:52:04 pingou: ideally i'd like people to be able to write a quick reply in hubs too but i know that's more complex 14:52:27 mizmo: any idea if that is possible with the current HK api? 14:52:29 mizmo: it would require us to figure out central-auth 14:52:35 which may make puiterwijk happy :) 14:52:43 ryanlerch: i dont know but im guessing not 14:52:53 last time i looked, it was pretty sparse (that was a while ago tho) 14:52:59 * ryanlerch can look into that 14:53:01 pingou: which I've figured out just need to get code reviewed 14:53:12 puiterwijk++ 14:53:13 nice! 14:53:27 I have the code ready. Just waiting for time from one of the co maintainers to help with review as its a big patch 14:53:30 puiterwijk++ 14:53:41 puiterwijk: same protocol or new one? 14:53:54 pingou: openid connect and its oath2 14:53:59 Oauth2 14:54:10 oh one big platform thing we dont have in the list yet is the bookmarks bar, we have one in the code now but it'll probably need some refinement 14:54:31 puiterwijk: cool 14:54:48 puiterwijk: will that require changes to our app? 14:54:52 Any other info anyone wants from me at the moment? 14:55:04 pingou: I have flask fas openid for it. 14:55:09 puiterwijk: if someone logs into hubs, when would the login time out 14:55:26 mizmo: depends on what we do. That's configurable 14:55:45 * mizmo likes longer auth sessions 14:55:58 pingou: I have a patch for Python fedora basically but I'm waiting with getting that reviewed until I get the Ipsilon patch accepted 14:56:05 puiterwijk: but we still need to port to it, right? 14:56:10 mizmo: I know. Not just you. And we'll get there 14:56:16 how much do we want to care about mobile? 14:56:21 pingou: yes. But I have patches for most things 14:56:26 puiterwijk: ok cool 14:56:39 As said I'm just holding on until the Ipsilon protocol is accepted 14:57:46 devyani7: are any of these looking like appealing things to work on? 14:57:48 mizmo: afaik devyani7 would be working on the bookmarks bar during GSoC 14:57:53 oh okay great! 14:57:59 the meeting reminder widget is there no? 14:57:59 mizmo: as soon as we get single login and logout, which I'm working on, we can have longer auth sessions. But that's outside of The scope of this meeting. 14:58:03 mizmo: yup that^^^ 14:58:13 yep i have that in the list pingou 14:58:22 puiterwijk: ahh okay very glad it's in the roadmap 14:58:41 mizmo: I think we can cross it :) 14:58:42 :P 14:58:47 mizmo: alot 14:58:50 I think 14:58:57 bootstrap will help us here 14:59:10 pingou: do you have thoughts on what eric will work on? 14:59:12 re: mobile 14:59:28 mizmo: think like tahrir, which looks pretty ok on mobile 14:59:31 decause: my main worry is our reliance on modals, i wonder if bootstrap has something built in for those on mobile 14:59:45 mizmo: we have modals? :P 14:59:49 I didn't notice many yet 14:59:53 decause: you haven't run hubs in a while :) 15:00:01 pingou: obv 15:00:04 decause: yeh the widget config is modal 15:00:08 gotcha 15:00:12 widget config and widget add 15:00:20 mizmo: there is modal support in bootstrap AFIAK, yes 15:00:26 ok phew 15:00:38 that's where we get them from 15:00:39 bootstrap++ 15:00:42 its sort of a nice to have, but it's also really a good clean way of developing to make it mobile compatible to start 15:00:47 but I wonder how they look on mobile 15:00:50 mizmo: the modals in use in hubs are the bs ones, AFAICT 15:01:14 threebean made a testing/development instance for us but i dont know how to update the code running on it 15:01:18 but that would be a good way to test mobile 15:01:21 I know 15:01:23 ok, we're at the top of the hour folks 15:01:31 I'll talk to threebean about pushing to prod 15:01:46 #action decause talk to threebean about pushing to testing instance 15:01:47 decause: I can do it, no need to bother Ralph for this :) 15:01:50 well we have a start at a roadmap :) 15:01:52 #undo 15:01:52 Removing item from minutes: ACTION by decause at 15:01:46 : decause talk to threebean about pushing to testing instance 15:02:00 #action decause talk to pingou about pushing to testing instance 15:02:06 :) 15:02:15 i think we need to add a meta tag to get it the mobile responsive stuff scaling properly though 15:02:16 #action pingou talk to decause about pushing to testing instance 15:02:18 * puiterwijk notes prod != testing 15:02:27 sayan, you are interested in the badges implementation right? ill put your name down on it? 15:02:39 mizmo: yes 15:02:48 mizmo: on the badges side? 15:02:50 * decause will make sure we ahve the paths identified, and designed (with design team) 15:02:53 mizmo: I honestly do not know what both interns will be doing 15:03:02 sayan: \o/ 15:03:05 pingou: hubs interns? 15:03:07 pagure interns? 15:03:11 decause: hubs :) 15:03:12 ryanlerch: it'll involve both i think 15:03:17 intern interns? 15:03:23 If nobody needs me anymore I'm heading off for PTO again :) 15:03:23 decause: for pagure it's easy, they did their own roadmap :) 15:03:26 ryanlerch: RH interns 15:03:28 puiterwijk: have fun 15:03:32 pingou: we're starting with "where do we want to get to" so that we can have a buffet of tasks, and then allocate 15:03:35 PTO! puiterwijk get out of here and go have fun (and get some sleep lol) 15:03:45 PTO! 15:03:48 puiterwijk++ 15:03:48 thank you for being here tho :) 15:03:51 PTO! 15:03:53 puiterwijk+++++++++++++++ 15:03:54 puiterwijk++ 15:04:03 no cookies for you 15:04:17 :) okay, bye 15:04:29 pingou: we're getting closer to our "what is the end-state" 15:04:33 for Flock 15:04:39 that will *really* help 15:04:45 there goes my only friend online in my TZ :D 15:04:55 farewell puiterwijk ! 15:05:00 I've got a rough workflow of a demo, but it could prolly use a reality check 15:05:05 it's in the etherpad 15:05:25 ryanlerch, puiterwijk is in everyone's TZ :) 15:05:32 * ryanlerch disappears too, its 1am and im a little loopy 15:05:38 ryanlerch: sleep!!! 15:05:39 - Shows FAS Groups you are in <- that's a widget we do not have 15:05:45 ryanlerch: sleep tight 15:05:51 and thanks for being there as well :) 15:05:56 ryanlerch: sleep well! 15:06:12 oh 15:06:19 that reminds me theres some filtering we gotta do on FAS data 15:06:21 eg 15:06:22 ryanlerch: thanks 15:06:29 there shouldn't be hubs for git commit groups IMHO 15:06:45 mizmo: def 15:07:49 how do we do that kind of filtering? i guess we worry about it when we have the data? 15:07:59 should that be a roadmap work item? 15:08:22 I seem to remember Ralph having worked up on something for this 15:09:13 well he wrote a python script that populates hubs based on fas groups 15:09:17 i dont know if it does any filtering though 15:09:48 oh one thing too - unrelated 15:09:54 are we doing a *demo* or flock, or a *launch* ? 15:09:59 (feels like demo might be better) 15:10:10 demo 15:10:11 def demo 15:10:30 badges was launched at flock, and we burned out one of the dev then :) 15:11:05 demo is fine, if we have a 0.1 running I'm fine with announcing it 15:11:16 okay cool let's make the goal explicitly demo then 15:11:19 but it definitely will not be: here, have at it, it's working 15:11:59 im always scared of the fedora community app problem happening again 15:12:04 or an extent, the fedora packages app 15:12:12 launch, excitement, then goes dead 15:12:13 can be: it's here, explore it? 15:12:39 sayan: maybe more like, look at this demo, do you see the potential? how could a tool like this help your team? 15:12:58 having a cloud instance to expose 15:13:05 or maybe even stg 15:13:16 would allow more people to check it out 15:14:11 so demo + cloud instance at min 15:14:20 demo + stg/prod 0.1 at best 15:14:25 if we're focusing on 3-4 specific teams 15:14:30 is it possible to make demo accounts 15:14:37 so they could understand from that perspective what it will look like? 15:14:48 bc if i'm a packager and i log in and i dont see packager widgets, i might give up on the whole thing 15:15:14 but if i log in as Beefy Miracle, Artist Extraordinaire, then i see how it would look for a designer, and i maybe get the concept better 15:15:55 a lot of app demo sites use this idea, of making a fake user account to make sure they're demoing to their strengths 15:16:00 well, we already have bodhi updates, pending ACLs requests, bugzilla tickets widgets 15:16:02 and that you dont get an empty login area 15:16:12 so for packagers there is already a base 15:16:17 pingou: together tho, they don't make a compelling designed UX for packagers though 15:16:29 pingou: i want the 3 teams we picked to have an awesome initial experience 15:16:37 mizmo: but they do provide useful info 15:16:41 mizmo: agreed on this 15:16:53 pingou: packagers are so hard to impress tho... *nightmares about fedora community app :( * 15:16:56 * decause had another call, but wants to chime in 15:17:10 during usability testing, "oh, that is cool. i have command line tools and scripts that automate this tho." 15:17:18 I think we def should do a demo, but if we don't 'launch' at Flock, when would we do it? 15:17:40 i'd like to see a launch end of 2016 15:17:57