16:06:29 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting fedora-join
16:06:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Feb 13 16:06:29 2017 UTC.  The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:06:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:06:29 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-join'
16:06:44 <FranciscoD> #chair mailga Rhea Southern_Gentlem x3mboy pwhalen
16:06:44 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Rhea Southern_Gentlem mailga pwhalen x3mboy
16:07:06 <FranciscoD> if there's anyone else here, please let me know (you need to be a chair to use the meetbot commands)
16:07:07 <Southern_Gentlem> (in 2 meeting at once)
16:07:17 <Rhea> Your name is too long..
16:07:26 <FranciscoD> #topic Agenda
16:07:28 <Rhea> Squished my text portion to .. two words width eh
16:07:41 <FranciscoD> #info Roll call
16:07:47 <FranciscoD> #info New members' introduction
16:07:56 <x3mboy> !
16:07:56 <FranciscoD> #info Announcements
16:08:15 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: gotcha, lemme just chuck the agenda into the logs
16:08:32 <FranciscoD> #info  Resurrect classroom programme  - https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/22
16:08:44 <FranciscoD> #info  Resurrect the mentoring programme - https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/22
16:08:50 <FranciscoD> #info Open floor
16:08:57 <FranciscoD> #topic Roll call
16:08:59 <FranciscoD> .hello ankursinha
16:09:00 <zodbot> FranciscoD: ankursinha 'Ankur Sinha' <sanjay.ankur@gmail.com>
16:09:19 <FranciscoD> .hello mailga
16:09:20 <zodbot> FranciscoD: mailga 'Gabriele Trombini' <g.trombini@gmail.com>
16:09:30 <FranciscoD> you're welcome, mailga :P
16:10:07 * FranciscoD waits for others
16:10:17 <Rhea> .hello rhea
16:10:19 <zodbot> Rhea: rhea 'Radka Janek' <radka.janek@redhat.com>
16:10:21 <Rhea> #info Radka Janek; UTC+1; CommOps, Diversity, DotNet,...
16:10:43 <FranciscoD> ah, hrm, forgot that bit :/
16:10:48 <Southern_Gentlem> .hello jbwillia
16:10:49 <zodbot> Southern_Gentlem: jbwillia 'Ben Williams' <vaioof@yahoo.com>
16:11:07 <FranciscoD> #info Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD) - Fedora Join, Freemedia, and wherever else I can help
16:12:03 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: did you want to introduce yourself? I'll move to the "New members topic" if that's what you had in mind :)
16:13:39 <FranciscoD> Moving to next topic anyway now
16:13:46 <FranciscoD> #topic New members' introduction
16:14:20 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: let me know when you're around and I'll yield the floor to you
16:14:24 * FranciscoD wonders where skamath is
16:14:26 <FranciscoD> and dhanesh95
16:14:31 <FranciscoD> dhanesh95: ping ping ping ping
16:14:53 <dhanesh95> .hello dhanesh95
16:14:54 <zodbot> dhanesh95: dhanesh95 'Dhanesh Bhalchandra Sabane' <dhanesh95@disroot.org>
16:14:57 * FranciscoD waits two minutes to move on to next item
16:14:57 <dhanesh95> Here.. I'm here
16:15:01 <Rhea> PIIIIIING
16:15:02 <FranciscoD> :P
16:15:15 <x3mboy> Sorry
16:15:30 <dhanesh95> #info Dhanesh B. Sabane, UTC +5:30, CommOps, Marketing, ML, Python, RPM Packaging, Join and more to come
16:15:54 <x3mboy> Yes, Eduard Lucena, From Venezuela. Marketing, Ambassadors and Magazine
16:16:02 <FranciscoD> awesome :)
16:16:13 <x3mboy> I'm pretty interested in the Classroom Programme
16:16:19 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: can you say that again with an info command? It'll turn up in the logs that way :)
16:16:33 <FranciscoD> (both your sentences, actually ;))
16:16:45 <x3mboy> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:X3mboy
16:17:09 <FranciscoD> If there's anyone else here for the join meeting, please let me know so that I can give you the chair perms
16:17:10 <x3mboy> #info Eduard Lucena, From Venezuela. Marketing, Ambassadors and Magazine. Interest: Classroom Programe
16:17:18 * dhanesh95 will lurk around in this meeting.. Busy with Mozilla Club preparations. Sorry about that :(
16:17:34 <FranciscoD> dhanesh95: no worries, only the two tickets today
16:17:39 <FranciscoD> Ok, next topic
16:17:44 <FranciscoD> #topic Announcements
16:17:50 <FranciscoD> Any announcements anyone?
16:18:01 <FranciscoD> #info New Bugzilla beta coming soon
16:18:36 <FranciscoD> #info Mailman stack updated to latest code base
16:19:06 <FranciscoD> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ParallelInstallableDebuginfo - may be interesting to some devs
16:19:27 * FranciscoD doesn't have anything else
16:19:37 <FranciscoD> well, not anything interesting :)
16:19:41 <dhanesh95> Nothing here
16:20:11 <FranciscoD> I'll wait a minute for anyone else that may think of something, and then we can move on to our first ticket!
16:21:06 <FranciscoD> #topic  Resurrect classroom programme  - https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/22
16:21:37 <FranciscoD> Right, so, this is somewhat simpler than resurrecting the mentoring programme
16:21:51 <FranciscoD> The older method was:
16:21:57 <Rhea> idea rhea teaching the crazy stuff everyone in floss STILL hates
16:22:07 <FranciscoD> hahaha
16:22:10 <Rhea> :D
16:22:21 <FranciscoD> So, when this was active previously
16:22:35 <FranciscoD> #info This is where the classroom program lived: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom
16:22:59 <FranciscoD> #info A teacher scheduled a classroom, added it to the list on that page
16:23:10 <FranciscoD> #info E-mail went out to the classroom mailing list
16:23:31 <x3mboy> !
16:23:37 <FranciscoD> #info Some publicity was done - although I don't know if there was a fixed channel for this. I reckon blog posts and so on
16:23:40 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: go on
16:23:58 <FranciscoD> #info People turned up to class, learned, went away happy
16:24:02 <FranciscoD> (last step)
16:24:14 <x3mboy> There was a discussion about this in CommOps Meeting
16:24:23 <x3mboy> 2017-01-24
16:26:23 <FranciscoD> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/commops/commops.2017-01-24-17.29.html - if you're looking for the logs
16:26:26 <x3mboy> #info https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/28
16:26:32 <Rhea> Yep i already mentioned that in the ticket that we were talking about it
16:27:25 <FranciscoD> Let's take a minute to quickly go over what was said in that ticket
16:27:49 <Rhea> The whole ticket is old
16:27:56 <FranciscoD> dhanesh95: this seems to be the Fedora University bit that you couldn't locate :P
16:28:01 <Rhea> TLDR about the update - stuff we came up with would require infra that we dont have - closed
16:28:11 <FranciscoD> ah, what kind of infra?
16:28:20 <FranciscoD> Was it going towards a proper Moodle instance type thing?
16:28:24 <Rhea> I don't remember that far, that was before devconf
16:28:29 <FranciscoD> Coursera and all that?
16:28:46 <Rhea> what's moodle and coursera lol
16:28:48 <FranciscoD> Seems a bit like it
16:28:48 * Rhea googles
16:28:50 <FranciscoD> #Introducing "Fedora University", or FedoraU. FedoraU could be an online platform of lessons or curriculum curated by Fedora contributors teaching interested individuals about the steps necessary to become a Fedora contributor and how to get involved with the sub-project that interests them most. These lessons would teach some of the fundamental aspects universal to any sub-project, and as
16:28:56 <FranciscoD> they progress, they would learn more about the resources, workflow, and tools utilized by a specific sub-project
16:29:00 <FranciscoD> er
16:29:00 <FranciscoD> #info Introducing "Fedora University", or FedoraU. FedoraU could be an online platform of lessons or curriculum curated by Fedora contributors teaching interested individuals about the steps necessary to become a Fedora contributor and how to get involved with the sub-project that interests them most. These lessons would teach some of the fundamental aspects universal to any sub-project, and
16:29:06 <FranciscoD> as they progress, they would learn more about the resources, workflow, and tools utilized by a specific sub-project
16:29:14 <dhanesh95> FranciscoD: Yes yes yes.. This is what I was talking about
16:29:29 <Rhea> i see hmm
16:29:37 <FranciscoD> #info https://moodle.org/ - Moodle - online system used by a lot of universities
16:29:47 <x3mboy> My concern here is: The content will mutate in future
16:30:02 <FranciscoD> #info https://www.coursera.org/ - one of the many online learning web services now available
16:30:31 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: true, I hadn't thought of it this way. I had thought of it more on the lines of the older setup.
16:30:40 <x3mboy> I mean, if the content will be static, Is really need it of an University/Classroom?
16:30:44 <FranciscoD> Which pretty much meant someone taking a 90 minutes session
16:31:21 <Rhea> I don't think that we nede to go into learning systems such as these
16:31:23 <x3mboy> Because if we make a proper repository of media content, maybe the infra for this could not be huge
16:31:32 <FranciscoD> it really depends on what people want to teach - I don't see a point in us teaching programming for example - there are excellent resources on the internet already available
16:32:05 <x3mboy> FranciscoD, agreed! Maybe how to contribute with your programming into the project?
16:32:10 <FranciscoD> #info an example of excellent programming resources: https://www.khanacademy.org/computing
16:32:18 <x3mboy> But not to teach how to program
16:32:34 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: yeah - more fedora specific or hands on classes is what we usually had in the past
16:32:35 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD, but i can see the docs group possible useing something like this to get there people up and running
16:32:42 <Rhea> I think that what the classroom is about is a bit more simple - schedule with different topics being lectured, usually european late evening, which means that far east has morning, US has around the noon, all timezons (except india) covered.
16:32:53 <Rhea> People can turn up and attend, or get recordings.
16:33:00 <Rhea> I'd rather see visual content than IRC.
16:33:11 <FranciscoD> Rhea: it again depends on what you're teaching
16:33:16 <Rhea> Yes infra for recording content helps - plenty of stuf fout there to be used
16:33:23 <Rhea> (no problem with infra)
16:33:39 <FranciscoD> packaging is great to teach over IRC - I've done a few where I take them through packaging the GNU hello world software
16:33:42 <Southern_Gentlem> youtube how to install fedora , install third party repo etc
16:33:50 <Rhea> FranciscoD I don't know, my idea is sort of a lecture, maybe series of lectures... on specific topic.
16:34:15 <FranciscoD> Southern_Gentlem: yea - I think I read something about docs changing things but I don't remember specifics
16:34:16 <Rhea> And visual teaches more than text only. Hard to keep up with text only for some people.
16:34:26 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD,  all the time
16:34:50 <FranciscoD> As I'd said before, I think the teacher can pick the format
16:34:50 <Southern_Gentlem> so it looks like we need to narrow the scope of things
16:35:20 <Southern_Gentlem> so is this sig on joining any group in fedora or what groups
16:35:33 <Southern_Gentlem> and what does those groups need
16:35:38 <x3mboy> Yeap, maybe a good brainstorming of ideas about what, when and how, highly focused in "What?"
16:36:11 <x3mboy> Because, a lot of the Reading is done in wiki pages
16:36:11 <FranciscoD> Southern_Gentlem: joining any group - commops is working on specifically improving various groups' onboarding (improving and clarifying wiki and so on)
16:36:21 <Rhea> The teacher can pick format, we should however make sure that they have infrastructure necessary.
16:36:47 <Southern_Gentlem> so step one would be to reach out to comm-ops and those groups to see where help is needed
16:36:55 <Rhea> e.g. they want to run visual (screenshare+audio) then we should make sure that they know how to do that using provided platform
16:37:12 <Rhea> Moderators would be useful who would read out chat-questions on voice
16:37:14 <FranciscoD> Rhea: but we need a provided platform to start with - we as a community don't have one
16:37:32 <FranciscoD> Rhea: that's sounding less like a class and more like a Q&A session
16:37:39 <FranciscoD> a class sort of teaches something from scratch
16:37:45 <Southern_Gentlem> so what are the requirement to get a Fedora group on youtube
16:37:46 <Rhea> That's a lecture
16:37:58 <Rhea> a class, where you present the topic, and in the end you answer questions on the topic
16:38:00 <FranciscoD> Southern_Gentlem: we have one already - I think mktg controls the channel
16:38:04 <Rhea> class, talk, lecture, whatever
16:38:24 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD, so we need to find out for sure
16:38:26 <FranciscoD> So, I'd rather not limit either - the topics or the format or the infra
16:39:15 <FranciscoD> Southern_Gentlem: this seems quite official - all the flock videos are here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnIfca4LPFVn8-FjpPVc1ow
16:39:26 <x3mboy> Maybe something like the one used in vFADs???
16:39:45 <x3mboy> BlueJeans it was called, I think
16:39:49 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: I'm not aware of a vFAD happening in a long time
16:40:05 <FranciscoD> we had an ekiga server, but it wasn't used, so they shut it down
16:40:08 <FranciscoD> I think
16:40:16 <Southern_Gentlem> yes it has been shutdown
16:40:44 <Rhea> bluejeans is paid service that RedHat is using
16:40:45 <Southern_Gentlem> the last vfads  is basicly diversity had remote talks to groups
16:40:51 <Rhea> hence why its often seen around Fedora
16:41:01 <Southern_Gentlem> also not very open source
16:41:08 <FranciscoD> Here's what I had in mind - 1. We have a place where people suggest classes. 2. Some of us find people to volunteer to teach these topics 3. We help teachers set up, publicise
16:41:08 <Rhea> not at all
16:41:49 <FranciscoD> Some of us are kinda serious about only using Free software - which is why I will personally stick to IRC. But again, I don't want this to be a rule - if people are OK using closed tools, that's fine.
16:41:56 <Southern_Gentlem> i am thinking of doing a video on "howto create an updated fedora live"
16:42:02 <FranciscoD> (We have to be practical too)
16:42:19 <FranciscoD> Southern_Gentlem: an instructive video isn't the same as a classroom session
16:42:37 <x3mboy> I think we need to understand that it's not the same to put content that have an interactive session
16:42:43 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD,  if a tool is not in the fedora repos to do X, then its out in my opinion
16:42:46 <Rhea> free software != open source
16:42:53 <mailga> FranciscoD: of course this is a thing you considered yet, but there are some things which you can only speak about and other which need writing of.
16:43:05 <FranciscoD> Rhea: neither is closed, so I don't see the point
16:43:15 <FranciscoD> by free I did not mean unpaid
16:43:18 <Rhea> bluejeans is paid not because of the software... anyone can write that
16:43:27 <Rhea> its paid for infrastructure, servers, encoding power
16:43:30 <x3mboy> Focus!, please Focus!
16:43:56 <Rhea> just sayin... just like my open source project delivers premium experience to contributors
16:44:05 <Rhea> money is necessary to run servers
16:44:44 <FranciscoD> Let's leave that for the time being - this really isn't very important at the moment
16:44:54 <FranciscoD> How do we organise classes?
16:45:05 <FranciscoD> 16:39 < FranciscoD> Here's what I had in mind - 1. We have a place where people suggest classes. 2. Some of us find people to volunteer to teach these topics 3. We help teachers set up, publicise
16:45:09 <FranciscoD> How does this sound?
16:45:27 <mailga> FranciscoD: how many students in each classroom?
16:45:41 <Rhea> I'd rephrase 1) to "have a system to submit classes"
16:45:50 <FranciscoD> mailga: depends on the infra in use - if IRC, quite a bit, if a hangour, I think the limit is 8 at once?
16:45:58 <Rhea> (following that would be approval by program manaers / admins / whatever)
16:45:59 <x3mboy> This sounds like you have already infrastructure to do both: Ask people about classes, and infra to make the class happens
16:46:10 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: well, we do
16:46:14 <FranciscoD> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom#Suggest_a_class-> collect classes
16:46:23 <Rhea> wait but hangouts != open source
16:46:35 <FranciscoD> Rhea: can we move past that for the time being please?
16:46:41 <mailga> FranciscoD: the limit is given by the teacher, how many he can follow to be sure they understand?
16:46:44 <FranciscoD> I'm giving examples of available infra
16:46:50 <Southern_Gentlem> Rhea, but most people have chrome installed
16:47:02 <Rhea> Which is why bluejeans is good ^
16:47:05 <Rhea> ;)
16:47:20 <Southern_Gentlem> Rhea,  i disagree but that is beyound this talk
16:47:23 <Rhea> Not saying that it's 100% allowed, we would have to discuss with some bigger fish from RedHat
16:47:36 <FranciscoD> mailga: well, it'll be interactive, but it isn't going to replace an actual university class
16:47:51 <Rhea> I disagree because i never used any software other than chrome for bluejeans, including for my talks available on youtube
16:48:04 <FranciscoD> I mean, I hope we're not trying to compete with university style classes
16:48:07 <FranciscoD> ?
16:48:30 <FranciscoD> that isn't the aim here - at least not in my head
16:48:34 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD, instead of FedoraU change the name to Fedora Information
16:48:40 <x3mboy> Why not? That's the point I made before: If classes will be a Q&A session or we need a e-Learning Software
16:48:46 <Rhea> I'd add to that infra, bluejeans supports up to 50 people in standard mode i think (dont cite me on that) if we want more then its "prime time" which is no longer instant but there is some 20-30 second delay
16:49:12 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: fine, lets assume we do university type classes
16:49:15 <x3mboy> Or it will be static info
16:49:17 <FranciscoD> 1. What subjects will you teach?
16:49:21 <Southern_Gentlem> FU definitely has been used befre and does have some negative aspects
16:49:28 <FranciscoD> 2. Who will continue to continuously curate the info?
16:49:51 <mailga> FranciscoD: of course, ma we don't want teacher saying something and then there's not time left to explaining also for the ones didn't understand. IMO A classroom too big could be not useful.
16:50:19 <FranciscoD> mailga: we can't even agree on what the programme is doing - numbers is not an issue at the moment
16:50:22 <FranciscoD> XD
16:50:54 <FranciscoD> I really want everyone to keep in mind that this will always be an initiative handled by volunteers
16:51:28 <FranciscoD> so, the more the infra, the more the work - the more the content - the more the work
16:51:43 <FranciscoD> I'd hate for us to set something up to see if become like another wiki
16:51:50 <FranciscoD> that's really not what I had in mind at all
16:52:53 <x3mirc> .hello x3mboy
16:52:57 <zodbot> x3mirc: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
16:53:11 <x3mirc> Sorry, i change my connection
16:53:41 <x3mirc> Where we was???
16:53:45 <FranciscoD> I don't think we're at a point where we can come up with actionable items. Deciding the aim of the programme is step 1
16:54:20 <x3mirc> FranciscoD, +1
16:54:20 <FranciscoD> Rhea: mailga Southern_Gentlem x3mboy : should we go back to thinking it over and commenting on the ticket?
16:54:34 <FranciscoD> we're not getting anywhere here
16:54:50 <x3mirc> Agreed
16:55:43 <Rhea> bluejeans: This meeting is not going to end well if you plan on completely dismissing an infrastructure option, service used by Red Hat, just because it's not free. It's service, and you do not pay for software. The software itself is free and anyone can download it (or use in chrome) - It is extremely easy to use, and easily accessible to people, we would just need to find out from someone upstairs
16:55:45 <Rhea> whether we can use RedHatters account for it or not. Please keep this on the table: a) Text based (IRC) b) AudioVideo based (bluejeans/hangouts/other) c) university type (moodle/other)
16:56:22 <FranciscoD> Rhea: like I said before, we can't even decide on what the aim of the programme is - what infra we want to use is irrelevant at this point
16:56:40 <FranciscoD> the infra needs to fit the purpose and we can discuss it then
16:56:46 <FranciscoD> no point making a case now
16:56:59 <Rhea> Yes, and i'm summing up our available A B C options of delivery
16:57:12 <FranciscoD> yea, but delivering what? ;)
16:57:36 <FranciscoD> anyway, we're out of time, so everyone please comment on the ticket.
16:57:39 <Rhea> If its university type then those web types, (i'm against that - too much infra/work and i highly doubt anyone will do all that)
16:58:25 <Rhea> if its classroom type, where i have no idea what the irc would look like, then its these options...
16:58:36 <Rhea> if its a lecture type, then we have audio/video services to use
16:58:47 <mailga> One day I'll take the time to dive into tickets.....
16:59:07 <FranciscoD> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom#Classroom_archives
16:59:09 <Rhea> And i would let the teacher choose between a/b - dismiss c)
16:59:25 <Rhea> ie we would provide both A and B variants
16:59:41 <FranciscoD> Rhea: why do we have to provide any of it? Cant we leave it for the teacher to set up?
17:00:10 <FranciscoD> I had the idea that our role would be to help collect suggestions, and find folks to teach from that list
17:00:25 <FranciscoD> and teachers could use whatever they were comfortable with
17:00:28 <Rhea> Because for b) we would need redhatter's bluejeans, and potentially them moderating the room for better experience.
17:00:37 <FranciscoD> that's limited to bluejeans
17:00:49 <FranciscoD> I don't see why we should make a rule based on one platform
17:00:56 <Rhea> I personally like to have a moderator regardless of the platform
17:01:04 <Rhea> (when i talk)
17:01:13 <FranciscoD> sure, you're the teacher, you set it up however
17:01:18 <Rhea> Makes it more interactive and engaging
17:01:20 <FranciscoD> but that's what I'm saying - leave it open
17:01:26 <Rhea> (if they read questions)
17:01:34 <FranciscoD> why come up with a set of rules that everyone must follow?
17:01:42 <Rhea> I'm not
17:01:47 <Rhea> i'm saying if the teacher wants one
17:02:11 <FranciscoD> then the teacher will arrange for one - I want to leave all of that up to the teacher
17:02:18 <FranciscoD> (so we don't need to discuss this)
17:02:36 <Rhea> I'm random person wanting to share something, teach something,etc... I dont know how to use neither irc for it, nor a/v
17:02:42 <Rhea> i need help
17:02:43 <x3mirc> You're discussing a per session issue, when sessions are not defined yet
17:02:48 <FranciscoD> x3mirc: ++
17:02:56 <Rhea> Good bye.
17:03:00 <Rhea> Waste of time guys.
17:03:16 <FranciscoD> let me end the meeting
17:03:20 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting