16:12:52 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting Fedora Join (2018-12-18)
16:12:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec 18 16:12:52 2017 UTC.  The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:12:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:12:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_join_(2018-12-18)'
16:12:59 <FranciscoD> #chair meskarune x3mboy skamath
16:12:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD meskarune skamath x3mboy
16:13:16 <FranciscoD> If anyone else's here for the meeting, please let me know so I can add you to the list of chairs
16:13:36 <FranciscoD> skamath: pretty well, will finish early next year, and they you'll have to call me "Doc" ;)
16:13:44 <x3mboy> .fasinfo x3mboy
16:13:45 <zodbot> x3mboy: User: x3mboy, Name: Eduard Lucena, email: eduardlucena@gmail.com, Creation: 2011-11-28, IRC Nick: x3mboy, Timezone: America/Santiago, Locale: en, GPG key ID: DCDC2FFE, Status: active
16:13:48 <zodbot> x3mboy: Approved Groups: commops diversity-team +marketing fedora-cl magazine ambassadors cla_fpca cla_done
16:13:55 <FranciscoD> #meetingname fedora-join
16:13:55 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-join'
16:14:04 <skamath> FranciscoD, Woah!!
16:14:05 <Southern_Gentlem> .hello jbwillia
16:14:06 <zodbot> Southern_Gentlem: jbwillia 'Ben Williams' <vaioof@gmail.com>
16:14:13 <FranciscoD> .hello ankursinha
16:14:14 <zodbot> FranciscoD: ankursinha 'Ankur Sinha' <sanjay.ankur@gmail.com>
16:14:18 <skamath> .hello2
16:14:23 <zodbot> skamath: skamath 'Sachin S Kamath ' <sskamath96@gmail.com>
16:14:32 <FranciscoD> #chair Southern_Gentlem
16:14:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Southern_Gentlem meskarune skamath x3mboy
16:14:43 <skamath> Southern_Gentlem, Hi o/
16:14:54 <Southern_Gentlem> howdy
16:15:01 <Southern_Gentlem> i may be in and out
16:15:16 <FranciscoD> heya Southern_Gentlem - no worries :)
16:15:20 * mailga around....
16:15:27 <FranciscoD> #chair mailga
16:15:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Southern_Gentlem mailga meskarune skamath x3mboy
16:15:33 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD, then you can change your nick to FranciscoDr
16:15:41 <skamath> LOL
16:15:42 <FranciscoD> Southern_Gentlem: LOL - good idea!
16:15:55 <FranciscoD> skamath: should we start with a quick update on classrooms?
16:16:03 <skamath> Of course!
16:16:12 <FranciscoD> That's the one project we've managed to get going, and you folks are handling it really well :)
16:16:26 <FranciscoD> #topic skamath's  Fedora Classroom update
16:16:28 <FranciscoD> skamath++
16:16:31 <FranciscoD> x3mboy++
16:16:33 <skamath> Alrighty
16:16:37 <skamath> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom
16:16:52 <skamath> tl;dr : It's going great! Better than ever.
16:17:05 <skamath> We've had 8 sessions so far and 3 more are queued.
16:17:15 <x3mboy> skamath, Cool!
16:17:19 <skamath> Thanks to all the instructors! :D
16:17:21 <x3mboy> skamath++
16:17:34 <FranciscoD> Lovely! Good to see we've managed to keep it going. That's usually the hardest part.
16:17:46 <x3mboy> I want to do a new vim session to cover more basics, before going deep with FranciscoD
16:17:55 <skamath> Magazine posts are being published for every Classroom post and we have a really good response.
16:18:02 <x3mboy> But I need some time, that I don't have rn
16:18:08 <skamath> It peeked to upto ~170 for the Ansible 101 session
16:18:21 <skamath> 170 heads, that is :D
16:18:27 <FranciscoD> Yeh, isn't stickster helping with the posts?
16:18:40 <skamath> FranciscoD, Yep!
16:18:46 <skamath> stickster++
16:18:49 <meskarune> I'm so happy to see this going
16:18:53 <FranciscoD> why no cookies? :(
16:18:58 <skamath> FranciscoD++
16:19:00 <FranciscoD> pfrields++
16:19:00 <zodbot> FranciscoD: Karma for pfrields changed to 10 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:19:01 <Southern_Gentlem> ++ to all of you
16:19:09 <FranciscoD> skamath: you've already given him a cookie XD
16:19:22 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD++
16:19:22 <meskarune> I could possibly do a git class
16:19:24 <skamath> Oh yeah, in magazine channel.
16:19:30 <FranciscoD> skamath: as classroom lead, you're probably going to have to write this up: https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-2017-year-in-review/
16:19:31 <FranciscoD> :P
16:19:32 <meskarune> I have taught one before for arch classroom
16:19:33 <Southern_Gentlem> skamath++
16:19:34 <FranciscoD> I can help
16:19:39 <meskarune> awesome
16:19:41 <skamath> meskarune, We already had a 101. We're all set for 102.
16:19:47 <meskarune> oh nice :D
16:19:52 <FranciscoD> meskarune: that'd be lovely. I think I took a hands on session which lasted ~3 hours :D
16:20:07 <skamath> FranciscoD, the command line hero.
16:20:08 <meskarune> I made a bunch of ascii nemas to show people
16:20:20 <FranciscoD> but you're welcome to do another one - git is always something people are looking to learn :)
16:20:25 <skamath> meskarune, https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-classroom/2017-10-05/fedora-classroom.2017-10-05-14.17.log.html
16:20:32 <meskarune> thanks :)
16:20:37 <skamath> np :)
16:20:54 <skamath> FranciscoD, Oh yes. I'd love to write the review post.
16:21:00 <FranciscoD> skamath: should we open a ticket for the "year in review" post? We can work on it together - less work for you?
16:21:23 <meskarune> FranciscoD++
16:21:23 <zodbot> meskarune: Karma for ankursinha changed to 3 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:21:33 <skamath> That'd be great. let's do this!
16:21:40 <meskarune> commops and diverity have tickets open atm for that
16:21:57 <FranciscoD> Yeh, I may write my personal Fedora year in review too XD
16:22:06 <meskarune> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-2017-year-in-review
16:22:21 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD open ticket for Fedora Year in Review post
16:22:41 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD skamath x3mboy - braindump info for Year in Review post
16:23:18 <FranciscoD> All our sessions are quite techie - are there other, less techie sessions we can do?
16:23:33 <x3mboy> Cool
16:23:45 <x3mboy> Mmmm probably don't
16:24:02 <skamath> We had less techie ones too.
16:24:03 <FranciscoD> Composing music on Fedora types? I could stalk someone from the Fedora Jam SIG etc? Should be doable over Jitsi
16:24:12 <x3mboy> Maybe we can do some easier or little downer barriers
16:24:23 <skamath> Oh, just one. Magazine 101.
16:24:23 <meskarune> maybe a class on making badges
16:24:25 <x3mboy> Like, basics for Desktop configs
16:24:36 <FranciscoD> meskarune++
16:24:36 <zodbot> FranciscoD: Karma for meskarune changed to 3 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
16:24:37 <meskarune> or how to use pagure
16:24:38 <skamath> meskarune, That'd be great!
16:24:47 <meskarune> stuff that reallly really new people could find useful
16:24:49 <skamath> +1 to a Design classroom
16:24:56 <FranciscoD> #idea Classroom session: Making badges
16:25:01 <FranciscoD> #idea Classroom session: Pagure 101
16:25:03 <x3mboy> git 102, 201, 202, 301, 302, 10001 and more?
16:25:09 <skamath> We can also go ahead and say - "Hey, we have something for everyone!"
16:25:10 <x3mboy> :D
16:25:21 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: yeh, those will continue, but they're all sort of one dimensional.
16:25:30 <skamath> And also start whatcanilearnwithfedoraclassroom.org
16:25:34 <skamath> :P
16:25:38 <meskarune> you could do "git workflows"
16:25:40 <FranciscoD> There's a lot happening in Free software that isn't related to git/commandline
16:25:49 <FranciscoD> #idea Classroom session: Git workflows
16:26:03 <meskarune> its a bit different from going over commands, you look at the entire workflow and how people oranige repos and make commits
16:26:05 <skamath> FranciscoD, Shouldn't that be part of Git 102.
16:26:16 <FranciscoD> meskarune: the session I did, we got them to start repos from scratch, and make commits, and then open pull requests
16:26:29 <meskarune> skamath: there are honestly a ton of very different workflows that people use
16:26:29 <FranciscoD> skamath: yeh, we can call it whatever :P
16:26:42 <meskarune> there isn't just one set standard workflow
16:26:54 <meskarune> you could easily do a whole class just on that one thing
16:26:59 <FranciscoD> https://github.com/sanjayankur31/Fedora-classroom-Git-101
16:27:23 <FranciscoD> meskarune: yeh, maybe after one or two slightly advanced git sessions maybe? So folks are familiar with the basics?
16:27:47 <meskarune> yeah, totally
16:28:01 <meskarune> some people have a workflow that involves lots of branches
16:28:06 <FranciscoD> Also note that we'd like to use Pagure for everything Git related, but Pagure must be tested before hand
16:28:11 <meskarune> some people have one repo with tons of sub projects in the repo, etc
16:28:19 <FranciscoD> ++
16:28:47 <FranciscoD> skamath: I'd love to have that website, but I don't think the web team will be happy with another Fedora website :P
16:29:00 <skamath> FranciscoD, heh yeah. I was just kidding ;D
16:29:16 <FranciscoD> Maybe we can send out another general call for sessions that folks will like to see?
16:29:33 <skamath> I can write a CommBlog post
16:29:37 <FranciscoD> A magazine post on "What would you like to learn from Fedora classrooms?"
16:29:50 <FranciscoD> yeh commblog/magazine - whichever you think is apt
16:30:03 <skamath> FranciscoD, I also add a nice footer to all the posts
16:30:04 <skamath> https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-classroom-session-fedora-qa-102/
16:30:05 <meskarune> do ya'll gather student feedback after classes?
16:30:21 <skamath> meskarune, Unfortunately, no.
16:30:24 <x3mboy> #idea write a post on "What would you like to learn from Fedora classrooms?"
16:30:28 <FranciscoD> meskarune: we get some, but unofficially
16:30:30 <meskarune> it might help if you ever need to do budget requests or whatever
16:30:33 <skamath> We don't gather any information about the students.
16:30:42 <skamath> So there's no way we can reach them
16:30:57 <meskarune> you coudl make a survey that people fill out anonymously after a class
16:31:02 <FranciscoD> I think we should start - we did discuss setting up a survey tool, but there isn't a FOSS tool that's easily deployable
16:31:04 <x3mboy> #idea httpd 101
16:31:08 <meskarune> it can help to improve stuff over time
16:31:14 <x3mboy> #idea python 101
16:31:24 <Southern_Gentlem> always linux 101
16:31:28 <FranciscoD> Yeh, we could just start with a Google form thingy to start with?
16:31:28 <skamath> meskarune, That's actually a good idea. I'll see what can be done about it :)
16:31:30 <meskarune> FranciscoD: what does fedora normally use for surveys?
16:31:31 <x3mboy> #idea hacking firefox 101
16:31:35 <skamath> Southern_Gentlem, We had a FOSS 101 :D
16:31:40 <skamath> That was the first session
16:31:44 <skamath> And a Command Line 101
16:31:54 <FranciscoD> meskarune: we don't have anything set up. People have used Google docs in the past iirc
16:31:56 <skamath> Southern_Gentlem, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom#Previous_Sessions
16:32:02 <x3mboy> #idea Installing Software 101
16:32:03 <Southern_Gentlem> skamath, we have new people joining all the time
16:32:08 <meskarune> FranciscoD: oh herm...
16:32:12 <meskarune> maybe commops coudl do something about that
16:32:32 <meskarune> lime survey is open source
16:32:37 <skamath> Southern_Gentlem, nod nod. David said he'd love to repeat the sessions. I'll poke him :)
16:32:43 <FranciscoD> meskarune: I don't know if things have changed, but last I had looked, to deploy something on Fedora infra, it needs to be packaged for Fedora
16:32:50 <meskarune> https://www.limesurvey.org/
16:32:53 <FranciscoD> and that requires all the deps to be packaged too, so it's quite an undertaking
16:32:57 <meskarune> FranciscoD: oh I see
16:33:18 <FranciscoD> maybe things have changed, I think there's an openshift instance that shouldn't need it all packaged
16:33:19 <Southern_Gentlem> skamath,  if we could somehow record the sessions for later use great the meeting log is great but for replay isnt that great
16:33:25 <FranciscoD> I'll find out
16:33:32 <skamath> Southern_Gentlem, Most of the BlueJeans sessions are recorded.
16:33:38 <skamath> It's there on the wiki
16:33:45 <Southern_Gentlem> but they require flash
16:33:46 <meskarune> FranciscoD: I think its worth opening a ticket to get some sort of survey service going because almost everyone in fedora would use it
16:34:00 <skamath> Yeah, unfortunately :(
16:34:03 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD Find out how much effort it is to deploy some survey software for use by the community
16:34:12 <FranciscoD> skamath: does the jitsi stuff also need flash?
16:34:23 <Southern_Gentlem> skamath,  youtube would be better imho
16:34:25 <skamath> FranciscoD, we can plug Jitsi to youtube.
16:34:55 <FranciscoD> Let's try and use Jitsi as much as possible then instead of Bluejeans
16:35:07 <FranciscoD> iirc only RH instructors use bluejeans. We don't have access to it
16:35:09 <skamath> FranciscoD, All the redhatters prefer BlueJeans.
16:35:39 <skamath> Southern_Gentlem, So there is this feature in Jitsi that will let you livestream to Youtube.
16:35:50 <skamath> It can be later processed on YT and published as a video.
16:36:03 <FranciscoD> skamath: sure, we do have a Fedora Videos channel already
16:36:10 <skamath> FranciscoD, Yep :)
16:36:14 <FranciscoD> I wonder who has the credentials for that, though
16:36:21 <skamath> Justin has it.
16:36:23 <FranciscoD> Hopefully someone in mktg?
16:36:39 <FranciscoD> Ah, lovely then. We can use that channel to put up the recordings.
16:36:50 <meskarune> it would be great if it was possible to have some sort of accommodation for deaf people. They can't really participate in video chats because they can't hear what people say
16:36:51 <skamath> I remember x3mboy using it once.
16:36:59 <meskarune> Like maybe someone who posts text of what people are saying
16:37:29 <skamath> We can use the auto-cc feature of youtube for that if required. It's not perfect but does a pretty decent job.
16:37:46 <FranciscoD> meskarune: we could add subtitles to videos, sure, and we could see about the Emcee writing live bits too maybe
16:37:52 <meskarune> you can also open youtube vids to community contributions for transcripts and translations
16:38:12 <FranciscoD> #idea Put up all video sessions on Youtube
16:38:14 <skamath> meskarune++ :D
16:38:23 <Southern_Gentlem> glad i could make one good suggestion :)
16:38:25 <meskarune> if you do classes via videos then def have someone do text transcribing
16:38:29 <skamath> It looks like I gave all the cookies
16:38:41 <FranciscoD> #idea Ensure we have subtitles for videos on Youtube
16:39:06 <skamath> Southern_Gentlem, do you know if BlueJeans allows downloading of the video?
16:39:06 <FranciscoD> let's begin with ensuring we have subtitles for all videos, and once we have that going, we move to the next one - translated subtitles?
16:39:11 <FranciscoD> How does that sound?
16:39:20 <FranciscoD> (small steps)
16:39:20 <skamath> FranciscoD, Sounds good.
16:39:24 <Southern_Gentlem> skamath, no idea i am not a fan of bluejeans
16:39:35 <meskarune> FranciscoD: youtube allows community contribution for subtitles
16:39:49 <meskarune> so people can fix the auto-subtitles and also add translations
16:40:01 <FranciscoD> makes it even easier for us then
16:40:10 <meskarune> yeah :D
16:40:14 <skamath> \o/
16:40:18 <FranciscoD> #idea Use Youtube community contributions for subtitles and their translations
16:40:18 <meskarune> and you reach a larger audience
16:40:20 <skamath> I like where this is heading.
16:40:50 <skamath> A much better Classroom experience for all. This is Classroom v.2.0 beta :D
16:40:57 <FranciscoD> skamath: maybe modify the footer you put on the classroom announcements to mention that we'd like help with the subtitles (once we begin to put them on YT)?
16:41:06 <skamath> FranciscoD, for sure!
16:41:30 <FranciscoD> #idea skamath modify classroom session announcement post footer to mention we need help with subtitles for videos
16:41:33 <FranciscoD> er
16:41:45 <FranciscoD> yeh, that's ok. I dunno what I said "er" for..
16:41:50 <FranciscoD> not enough tea
16:41:50 <skamath> :P
16:42:10 <skamath> I know why. You aren't taking coffee!
16:42:12 <FranciscoD> Right, anything else on classrooms, or do we have enough ideas on our hands for a few weeks? :P
16:42:37 <FranciscoD> skamath: coffee doesn't work on me anymore. I've messed my brain up with it already.
16:42:48 <FranciscoD> Plus, I'm in London. It has to be tea and tiny cakes!
16:43:04 <skamath> Whatever works for you :P
16:43:17 <skamath> Looks like we have plenty to do already
16:43:38 <meskarune> now I want tea and tiny cakes
16:43:58 <meskarune> does classroom save teacher notes/resources to reuse?
16:44:04 <FranciscoD> https://afternoontea.co.uk/media/2202731/afternoontea_main.jpg ;)
16:44:35 <FranciscoD> meskarune: we have logs, no special notes at the moment. Instructors are welcome to attach them, but we haven't made it a necessity yet
16:44:54 <FranciscoD> (We're trying not to ask too much of them, to not scare them away)
16:45:10 <FranciscoD> So, they pick the format, the software, the style, all of it, at the moment
16:45:32 <skamath> And they get a cool badge too :D
16:45:32 <meskarune> ok I see. I think if you decide to keep teacher notes, you should pick a license for the resources
16:45:43 <meskarune> so that everything is clear in how it can be used
16:46:10 <FranciscoD> I think we decided on a CC 4.0 unported international license, but I can't remember if we put this down in writing anywhere
16:46:19 <meskarune> oh I see.
16:46:32 <meskarune> do you have a classroom wiki page for teachers?
16:46:36 <FranciscoD> it isn't on the wiki page, so we haven't mentioned it explicitly
16:47:01 <FranciscoD> We have the main page, and this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom_Help_Wanted#Instructors
16:47:16 <FranciscoD> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom
16:47:17 <skamath> The wiki footer has it : Content is available under Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported unless otherwise noted.
16:47:27 <meskarune> FranciscoD: do you want to me add that?
16:47:43 <FranciscoD> meskarune: yeh, sure, go ahead :)
16:48:06 <FranciscoD> skamath: yeh, but that's the general wiki license. We should have a section that says how the material produced during the sessions can be used, as meskarune pointed out
16:48:29 <FranciscoD> Just better to make it explicit
16:48:36 <skamath> Okay :)
16:49:16 <FranciscoD> skamath: we should update the wiki to say "Lead for F27 release: skamath " too. It says F26 at the moment ;)
16:49:30 * FranciscoD just noticed
16:49:36 <meskarune> oh I don't have permission to edit that page D:
16:49:47 <FranciscoD> meskarune: eh? why not? :o
16:49:51 <skamath> #action skamath Edit the wiki page to reflect the new release
16:49:56 <meskarune> wait, when I clicked edit I was somehow logged out?
16:50:20 <FranciscoD> ah, phew
16:51:10 <FranciscoD> skamath: I *think* there's a wiki varible for "current release". If you use that, you won't have to update it each release
16:51:18 <FranciscoD> that way you can be lead forever :P
16:51:22 <skamath> xD
16:51:28 <FranciscoD> s/varible/variable/
16:51:39 <skamath> I'll look for that variable,
16:52:09 <FranciscoD> Me too. I think it's used in the wiki pages for test days
16:52:18 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD skamath find wiki variable representing current release
16:52:31 <meskarune> ok, I added the license into to the "teaching a class" section
16:53:15 <FranciscoD> meskarune++
16:53:22 <FranciscoD> Thanks :)
16:53:49 <FranciscoD> Anything else? I was hoping to get a bit of discussion started over the mentorship programme, but we don't have time for that today
16:54:16 <FranciscoD> We'll do that in the new year. Quite a bit of work to be done on that front even before we get to launching it.
16:54:40 <skamath> Sounds like a plan
16:54:42 <skamath> :)
16:54:50 <FranciscoD> Here's some background: https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issues?status=Open&tags=mentorship
16:55:19 <FranciscoD> Five more minutes for any ideas, and then we can finish the meeting on time for a change XD
16:55:26 <meskarune> hehe
16:55:57 <meskarune> so if I wanted to open a ticket about fedora hosting a survey software thing, where would I do that? It would be useful for fedora-diversity as well
16:56:02 <FranciscoD> I'll triage the classroom related issues sometime. A lot of them should be closed now
16:56:04 <FranciscoD> https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issues?status=Open&tags=mentorship&tags=classroom
16:56:23 <FranciscoD> meskarune: the infra team handles it all, usually, so that would be the team to speak to
16:56:39 <FranciscoD> but, they, like all Fedora bits, need hands to do the work.
16:56:40 <meskarune> ok, do they have a pagure?
16:56:56 <meskarune> yeah, I don't expect it would happen over night
16:57:00 <FranciscoD> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
16:57:06 <meskarune> thanks so much
16:57:15 * FranciscoD is a bottomless pit of Fedora links
16:57:26 <meskarune> :D
16:57:49 <FranciscoD> Last few bits remaining:
16:57:53 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD send out logs to ML
16:58:04 <skamath> Happy Holidays! :)
16:58:07 <FranciscoD> skamath: were we keeping a wiki page with logs?
16:58:10 <FranciscoD> we were, weren't we?
16:58:17 <skamath> FranciscoD, logs of meeting?
16:58:33 <FranciscoD> yeh, and a page per meeting too, weren't we?
16:58:48 <skamath> I don't remember :/
16:58:57 <FranciscoD> I'll check it up
16:59:15 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD update wiki page with meeting logs if it exists
16:59:18 <FranciscoD> :D
16:59:36 <FranciscoD> Happy holidays everyone!
16:59:43 <skamath> \o/
16:59:43 <FranciscoD> Merry christmas, and happy new year
17:00:09 <skamath> .thank FranciscoD
17:00:09 <zodbot> skamath thinks FranciscoD is awesome and is happy they are helping! (Please don't forget to FranciscoD++ also)
17:00:12 <mailga> Happy Holidays guys, thanks for your efforts.
17:00:24 <FranciscoD> Ending meeting, right on the hour mark!
17:00:25 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting