14:04:42 <FranciscoD> #startmeeting Fedora Join 2017-03-21
14:04:42 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 21 14:04:42 2018 UTC.  The chair is FranciscoD. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:04:42 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:04:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_join_2017-03-21'
14:04:49 <FranciscoD> #meetingname fedora-join
14:04:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-join'
14:05:02 <FranciscoD> #chair bt0 x3mboy dhanesh95 skamath
14:05:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD bt0 dhanesh95 skamath x3mboy
14:05:18 <FranciscoD> #topic Roll Call
14:05:32 <FranciscoD> .hello ankursinha
14:05:34 <zodbot> FranciscoD: ankursinha 'Ankur Sinha' <sanjay.ankur@gmail.com>
14:05:38 <alciregi> .hello2
14:05:39 <zodbot> alciregi: alciregi 'Alessio Ciregia' <alciregi@gmail.com>
14:05:44 <FranciscoD> #chair alciregi
14:05:44 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD alciregi bt0 dhanesh95 skamath x3mboy
14:05:47 <FranciscoD> hello alciregi :)
14:05:53 <alciregi> hello :-)
14:05:54 <bt0> .hello bt0dotninja
14:05:55 <zodbot> bt0: bt0dotninja 'Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez' <hotgalan@gmail.com>
14:06:29 <FranciscoD> I know x3mboy is turning up in a bit. Let's wait a minute or two for more folks
14:06:38 <FranciscoD> #info Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Join/Next_Meeting
14:07:04 <FranciscoD> #info meeting commands: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Guide
14:08:10 <FranciscoD> OK, let's move on to the next topic maybe
14:08:17 <FranciscoD> #topic New member introductions
14:08:33 <FranciscoD> alciregi: bt0 : is this your first meeting in a while? Would you like to quickly introduce yourselves? :)
14:09:42 <bt0> yeah
14:10:24 <alciregi> well, this is my first Fedora Join meeting
14:11:07 <alciregi> I was around, and just curious to attend it, mainly for lurking :-)
14:11:28 <FranciscoD> We like lurkers :)
14:11:30 <FranciscoD> alciregi++
14:11:30 <zodbot> FranciscoD: Karma for alciregi changed to 1 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
14:11:41 <bt0> I'm Alberto from Mexico, I'm member of Commops, Marketing, DotNet Sig, Infra
14:12:17 <FranciscoD> bt0++
14:12:17 <zodbot> FranciscoD: Karma for bt0dotninja changed to 16 (for the f27 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
14:12:21 <FranciscoD> Welcome both!
14:12:26 <bt0> thanks
14:12:57 <FranciscoD> Let's hope you find the stuff we discuss today interesting enough to lurk a bit more :P
14:13:05 <FranciscoD> #topic Community announcements
14:13:21 <FranciscoD> #info Third party repositories are coming to Fedora Workstation: https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/121
14:13:33 <FranciscoD> This is quite a biggie for me, so I'm keeping an eye on it
14:14:31 <FranciscoD> #info The inclusion of a repository to make proprietary nvidia drivers available to users is already being discussed here: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/37
14:14:55 <FranciscoD> #info Gnome 3.28 test day is coming up in a few days: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2018-03-26_Gnome_3.28_Test_Day
14:15:18 <FranciscoD> #info There is a Fedora 28 Go/No Go meeting coming up too: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Go_No_Go_Meeting
14:15:33 <FranciscoD> I think that's all I found worth sharing
14:15:47 <FranciscoD> If you have any other announcements, feel free to share them
14:17:32 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD,  well it depends on the repo they add
14:17:40 <FranciscoD> #chair Southern_Gentlem
14:17:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: FranciscoD Southern_Gentlem alciregi bt0 dhanesh95 skamath x3mboy
14:17:55 <Southern_Gentlem> the current one they want to add is not acceptable in a lot of peoples eyes
14:18:00 <FranciscoD> Southern_Gentlem: indeed.
14:18:25 <FranciscoD> I have philosophical concerns, but those will have to be discussed later
14:18:55 <Southern_Gentlem> FranciscoD,  and of course my comment was deleted
14:19:04 <FranciscoD> eh? really?
14:19:10 <FranciscoD> that's not a good sign
14:19:10 <Southern_Gentlem> because i actually called the group out on the carpet
14:19:32 <FranciscoD> :/
14:19:46 <FranciscoD> Let me move on to the next topic in the meantime
14:19:54 <Southern_Gentlem> yep
14:19:55 <FranciscoD> #topic Tasks from last meeting
14:20:03 <FranciscoD> #info No tasks to go over this time
14:20:10 <FranciscoD> #topic New items
14:20:37 <FranciscoD> #info What is the status of the Fedora Classroom initiative? What is the next classroom session?
14:20:44 <FranciscoD> skamath: around? Can you give us an update?
14:21:02 <FranciscoD> I'll e-mail skamath and update the group
14:21:24 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD e-mail skamath to get updates on Fedora Classroom Initiative
14:22:03 <FranciscoD> #info Set up matrix bridge - https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/36
14:22:41 <FranciscoD> I've heard from some folks that IRC is not the best mode of communication for new contributors. So, I thought using a Matrix bridge would make it more modern
14:22:43 <x3mboy> .hello2
14:22:44 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
14:22:52 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: right on time :)
14:23:14 <FranciscoD> #info Fedora Join using Matrix on riot.im: https://riot.im/app/#/room/%23freenode_%23fedora-join:matrix.org
14:23:39 <FranciscoD> The interface is nicer than webchat, and since it's web based, one doesn't need to install a client.
14:23:42 <FranciscoD> Does that look OK?
14:24:05 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: I'll wait a few minutes to let you scroll up - just a few general remarks really
14:24:20 <x3mboy> As well as people understand what Riot and Matrix is, it should be ok
14:25:19 <FranciscoD> Yeh. I personally don't think the IRC is a problem. The problem is us not being around all the time to reply quickly to new queries.
14:25:23 <FranciscoD> Which brings us to another ticket:
14:25:39 <FranciscoD> if the Matrix bridge is OK, should I close this ticket?
14:25:55 <x3mboy> Do you think about Telergram?
14:26:11 <FranciscoD> Not yet - is there a telegram bridge to IRC?
14:26:16 <FranciscoD> no, right?
14:26:19 <x3mboy> Yes, the Matrix bridge should be ok
14:26:24 <x3mboy> Yes, it is
14:26:44 <x3mboy> For example, #fedora-telegram is bridged to the @Fedora channel in telegram
14:26:49 <FranciscoD> ah? in that case, i can look into setting up the telegram bridge too. I *think* a discord bridge to fedora-join already exists
14:26:53 <x3mboy> We have 1500 people on that channel
14:27:02 <FranciscoD> yeh, I'm on the telegram side
14:27:17 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: if you think that would be useful, I'll look at setting it up too
14:27:31 <x3mboy> You can ping jflory, jflory7 or jwf
14:27:36 <FranciscoD> ++
14:27:44 <x3mboy> He setup the bridges
14:27:53 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD ping jwf to ask how a telegram bridge to #fedora-join can be set up
14:28:04 <x3mboy> Now there is a ticket in infra to move the bridge under the Fedora Infra
14:28:12 <FranciscoD> that'd be really nice, yes
14:28:33 <x3mboy> Because at the moment all brigges I know are being stored in a jwf's personal space, I don't know where
14:29:01 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: I feel the channels and the infra are OK, and can be improved as neeed, but the bigger problem is that we don't have enough folks in #fedora-join to reply to queries quickly
14:29:13 <FranciscoD> #info #37 Improve availability of community members in #fedora-join - https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/37
14:29:41 <x3mboy> FranciscoD, yes, I have the same problem in Marketing
14:29:43 <Southern_Gentlem> sorry i am in too many channels already
14:29:45 <FranciscoD> So, if someone comes in and asks a question but doesn't receive a reply, they have a negative experience (instead of a neutral one)
14:30:12 <FranciscoD> yeh, it'll become easier as we gain more members, but for the time being we've got to find a short term solution for this
14:30:20 <x3mboy> We can redirect people from @FedoraJoin to @Fedora in case that nobody answer, no?
14:30:41 <x3mboy> Maybe that's not a gret idea, a lot of things happens in that channel
14:31:11 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: well, questions: a) can this redirect be automated? b) #fedora requires nick registration c) is that the best thing to do
14:31:52 <FranciscoD> I wonder if fedbot/zodbot have features that enable them to "greet" users with a default message
14:32:02 <FranciscoD> I found this, for example: https://github.com/shaunagm/WelcomeBot
14:32:11 <FranciscoD> Of course, I would prefer it if humans could man the channels
14:32:15 <x3mboy> a) No. b) Yes it does, but #fedora-telegram doesn't and in the telegram side we have like 6 or 7 admins c) Not necesarily but I can't think in anything better
14:32:37 <x3mboy> FranciscoD, but that's what topic does, no?
14:32:50 <FranciscoD> well, it's supposed to, but somehow it doesn't seem sufficient
14:33:04 <FranciscoD> Looks like people that are inexperienced with IRC tend to not read the topic
14:33:26 <FranciscoD> We do say that they should e-mail if they don't receive a reply, but that extra step seems to discourage folks
14:34:21 <x3mboy> Ok, let me understand someting. Are we talking about people become members of Join or Are we talking about help people in general?
14:35:23 <FranciscoD> New users that may want to contribute, let's call them "newbies", and lets call join members "contributors"
14:35:53 <x3mboy> Ok, so a user that want to contribute it's not the same as a normal user that needs help. So Matrix should be enough
14:36:06 <x3mboy> That's waht I think
14:37:38 <x3mboy> s/waht/what
14:39:48 <FranciscoD> give me a moment - lab question
14:42:04 <FranciscoD> sorry, yeh - right. We're not concerned with end user support
14:42:08 <FranciscoD> that's taken care of already
14:42:34 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: any ideas on how we can get more contributors to lurk in the channel and answer questions?
14:42:38 <FranciscoD> a badge maybe?
14:42:55 <FranciscoD> a rota - people from different time zones "own" hours
14:42:59 <FranciscoD> or something of the sort?
14:43:05 <x3mboy> Well, let me check on onboarding tickets on other teams
14:43:25 <x3mboy> Can you action me on that?
14:43:33 <x3mboy> A badge is always a good idea
14:43:42 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: you're a chair too, action away :)
14:43:43 <bt0> yes, but by example, the telegram bridge give us presence in the channel with our phone
14:44:11 <FranciscoD> bt0: yeh, that'll make it easier for newbies to reach us, and for us to monitor the channel too
14:44:19 <x3mboy> #action x3mboy will search on other onboarding processes on other teams
14:44:28 <FranciscoD> #idea Badge series to reward contributors for helping newbies
14:45:12 <FranciscoD> A lot of this discussion is because of the feedback I got on this ticket, by the way: https://github.com/fedora-infra/asknot-ng/issues/75
14:45:18 <FranciscoD> Read the last comment, for example
14:45:43 * FranciscoD doesnt understand the "IRC is old, clunky, and ..." sentence at all
14:45:49 <FranciscoD> but that's me
14:45:59 <FranciscoD> A Matrix channel should take care of that bit, though
14:47:45 <bt0> https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/team_chat.png
14:48:54 <FranciscoD> LOL
14:49:27 <bt0> :)
14:49:46 <FranciscoD> if skype etc were open source and could handle the loads we have, I'd switch to them today
14:51:24 <bt0> for newcomers any kind of bridge is very helpful but if they want to become contributors they need learn irc
14:51:27 <x3mboy> Jit.si ?
14:51:36 <x3mboy> BlueJeans ?
14:51:50 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: will any of these manage a channel 24x7?
14:51:54 <bt0> all the meetings of all the teams runs over irc
14:52:02 <x3mboy> FranciscoD, absolutely not
14:52:05 <x3mboy> Neither Skype
14:52:11 <FranciscoD> aren't they designed for "on demand" calling
14:52:11 <x3mboy> We can jump to Slack
14:52:13 <x3mboy> xD
14:52:15 <FranciscoD> LOL
14:52:27 <FranciscoD> Gitter maybe
14:52:37 <x3mboy> Ok, let's try the Matrix bridge and look the results
14:52:49 <x3mboy> Learn IRC...
14:52:59 <FranciscoD> bt0: that can change - we can move off to a better communcation system, but while we're on IRC, let's try to make it more accessible to people
14:53:11 <FranciscoD> I think the new hubs have in-built IRC web widgets
14:53:15 * FranciscoD is really looking forward to hubs
14:53:19 <x3mboy> It sounds like IRC have a major learning curve
14:53:25 <x3mboy> It's just IRC!!!
14:53:47 <bt0> because you don't use vimIRC
14:53:58 <FranciscoD> Yeh - I'm not sure what the learning curve is tbh - if one only wants to chat, it's quite simple. Admin bits etc are more involved
14:54:16 <FranciscoD> bt0: do you? I'm a vim person, but even I havent used that - weechat works really well
14:54:53 <FranciscoD> x3mboy: +1 on the lets see how matrix goes
14:55:23 <FranciscoD> If you have any comments on the Github ticket, please do either comment there or let me know and i'll pass those on
14:55:37 <FranciscoD> I'm going to ask them not to make any changes until the hubs are deployed
14:56:14 <FranciscoD> All I wanted was a link somewhere that said "Speak to a human" that brought them to us
14:56:32 <FranciscoD> So if a newbie is on wcidff and finds it confusing, they can come speak to us and help them feel part of the community
14:57:50 <FranciscoD> We're out of time, so let's stop here. We'll discuss the other bits at the next meeting in 2 weeks time
14:58:07 <FranciscoD> I hope that's OK?
15:00:31 <FranciscoD> #action FranciscoD send out logs to ML, update wiki page
15:00:34 <FranciscoD> #endmeeting