23:05:19 <mchua> #startmeeting
23:05:20 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Feb 11 23:05:19 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:05:22 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
23:05:26 <mchua> SOPs sprint!
23:05:28 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing#Release_deliverables
23:05:36 <mchua> rrix is teh awesum and has gotten me off my ass to do this
23:05:59 <rrix> :D
23:06:53 * rrix is updating some kde packages, may be randomly having to restart session
23:13:51 * rrix hacks talking points
23:15:43 * mchua curses slowness of wifi connection. c'mon.
23:16:07 <mchua> what is with the wiki today? it keeps telling me it's down, and then comes back up, and... mgh
23:16:46 <rrix> hm :(
23:22:23 <mchua> ha, back up. Okay, one page release notes. time to get CRUSHED.
23:27:28 <rrix> Yay, crushing
23:33:08 <rrix> now it's dead for me :<
23:33:16 <rrix> mchua: take back the brokenness so I can commit :P
23:33:24 * mchua getting serious lag here too
23:33:35 * mchua starting to write text offline, copypaste to wiki when it's working
23:33:45 * mchua looks at #fedora-admin to complain ;)
23:33:48 * rrix goes to bother -admin
23:33:48 <rrix> :D
23:34:20 <rrix> mchua: I almost asked at the same time as you :P
23:42:13 <rrix> mchua: how are talking points chosen? Are they put up to vote on mktg list, or is it just 'hey edit teh wikiz!'
23:45:11 <mchua> rrix: ...talking points are a "leave the steps blank" one ight now.
23:45:23 <rrix> oh :x
23:45:34 <rrix> which one am I supposed to hack on then?
23:45:36 <mchua> rrix: robyn and paul and karsten and I had a long convo about this on tuesday - there are dissenting opinions on what talking points are, and we need to write the sop to clear 'em up
23:45:55 <mchua> rrix: if you want to hack the talking points sop though, that's great :) it's just probably the hardest one to write
23:45:59 * mchua nabs link for ya
23:46:01 <rrix> okay
23:46:24 <mchua> rrix: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-mktg/2010-02-09/fedora-mktg.2010-02-09-21.12.html and associated log
23:46:27 <rrix> well the steps for formatting the page are there ;)
23:46:32 * rrix reads
23:46:32 <mchua> yayy!
23:46:54 <mchua> if you're working on that one I'll try to finish the rest... talking points really are the hardest.
23:49:01 <rrix> alrighty
23:49:20 <rrix> Whether I can get something you don't want to tear to peices and start over with remains to be seen though ;)
23:50:10 <rrix> "21:17:58 <rbergeron> "they said moblin! omg"" <-- ^_^
23:51:17 <wonderer> mchua: hmm on the wikipage ... isn't there the point "Release Notes" missing?
23:52:42 <wonderer> Talking Points, Release Slogan, Release Notes (technical thingys), Screenshots, OnePage Release Notes, etc.
23:54:31 <wonderer> and at "Projects" I miss the picture Archive ...
23:55:00 <mchua> wonderer: where on which wikipage?
23:57:14 <wonderer> also FWNhttps://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing
23:58:42 <wonderer> at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Contributors_to_the_marketing_group#Active_Contributors is mentioned "proven track record" means what? I think mel is a proven contributor ... or is that page only outdated?
00:00:26 <wonderer> also at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Contributors_to_the_marketing_group#Active_Contributors there could be some more infos of the area where these contributors are. Because, if e.g. a company searches for some marketing people to deal with I do not think someone from the UK will be amused for infos from US ;-)
00:00:43 <mchua> wonderer: yeah, I think we need a better way to track contributors... the FAS group also has a lot of deadwood. I think some other groups prune inactive membership once per release cycle - not sure what the best pratice for us is, here.
00:00:47 <rrix> mchua: hmm... I'm wondering if I'm qualified to write this SOP
00:01:13 <quaid> rrix: that's the power of the group; anyone is qualified to start the journey :)
00:01:22 <rrix> this is true :)
00:01:31 * rrix is strying to digest that log and parse it
00:01:52 <wonderer> mchua: I know that there are some "historical grown" pages, but I know had a look and wanted to write that down ;-)
00:02:01 <quaid> ok, so you are lost, let's get you to the next stage :)
00:02:10 <wonderer> maybe a short point to work on at the FAD...
00:03:28 <mchua> rrix: Yes. I like having fresh minds write documentation whenever possible because then it's actually coherent and understandable. :)
00:03:35 <mchua> rrix: questions, can haz ask them!
00:03:42 <mchua> wonderer: or you could edit the wiki now. ;)
00:04:22 <wonderer> mchua: I'm on right now, but if I do something wrong I tell everybody "mel told me so" :-D
00:04:47 <mchua> wonderer: that, sir, is exactly what I am here for :)
00:05:10 <mchua> Mel Chua, Amateur Scapegoat ;)
00:05:29 * rrix sighs at his system
00:05:34 <wonderer> :)
00:05:35 * rrix brb-ish
00:05:53 <wonderer> "Sorry! This service is currently unavailable."
00:05:58 <wonderer> urgs
00:06:24 <wonderer> Ok, next steps I will try later (after some sleep).
00:06:58 <mchua> wonderer: yeah, the wiki has been up and down today
00:07:04 <mchua> it usually comes back within 3-5m
00:20:33 * rbergeron looks around
00:21:44 <mchua> hoi, rbergeron. rrix kicked my ass into actually working on the SOPs. :)
00:21:49 <mchua> he's writing the talking points one now.
00:22:01 <mchua> the wiki has been going up and down, so progress is a little slower than it would be otherwise.
00:27:50 <rbergeron> What's up with the wiki?
00:28:14 <rbergeron> Or should i say... What's up/down with the wiki? :)
00:28:40 * rbergeron feels like the life has been sucked out of her lately. Ugh
00:29:20 <mchua> rbergeron: ...I know the feeling.
00:29:31 * mchua sends energy transfusions to rbergeron
00:29:43 <mchua> I've *had* some energy lately, but... not directed in useful ways, sometimes.
00:29:54 <mchua> just running around spasming out "WHEEEEEEE! YAYYY!!!" and not getting stuff done
06:16:12 <jfalco> Anything exciting going on in marketing tonight?
06:16:39 <rrix> oh, crap...
06:16:44 <rrix> I totally flaked out on mchua  :(
06:17:06 * rrix is a badddd person
06:17:18 <rrix> mchua: I fell asleep writing that SOP, I'm sorry :|
06:18:14 <mchua> rrix: *totally* okay
06:18:22 * mchua eventually was overtaken by hunger and ate dinner
06:18:39 <Subfusc> weak CARBON units
06:18:43 <Subfusc> DO work!
06:18:59 <mchua> SIR YES SIR RIGHT AWAY SIR
06:19:02 * hiemanshu wonders where David is
06:19:09 <hiemanshu> mchua: NO CAPS!
06:19:30 <hiemanshu> .any ke4qqq
06:19:31 <zodbot> hiemanshu: ke4qqq was last seen in #fedora-mktg 12 hours, 39 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <ke4qqq> sounds good
06:20:26 <hiemanshu> mchua: I reviewed phpESP last night for ke4qqq :)
06:20:51 <hiemanshu> but he isnt here :(*
06:21:07 * hiemanshu is all sweaty after a game of soccer
06:22:00 * jfalco is sick of dead hard drives
06:23:05 <Subfusc> ahm first coffie of the day
06:23:12 <Subfusc> mmmm
06:23:53 * jfalco will have his first cup in about 4 hours
06:25:17 <Subfusc> jfalco: then you can a) throw them away and buy new ones b) stop using harddrives alltogether c) stop killing them or d) all of the above
06:25:43 <jfalco> or e) get out of the business of fixin them
06:26:42 <Subfusc> ah
06:26:47 <Subfusc> that explains a lot
06:26:54 * Subfusc doesnt kill harddrives
06:26:56 <jfalco> good $$$ though
06:27:06 <Subfusc> I have never experienced a HDD die
06:27:22 <Subfusc> only corrupted filesystems
06:27:44 <Subfusc> but NTFS is such a bad filesystem anyways, so its not unexpected
06:27:56 <jfalco> agree
06:30:36 <jfalco> It never ceases to amaze me how many thousands people will pay to get something back that a 10 cent CD/R could have saved
06:31:08 <Subfusc> the concept of backup is not known to most people
06:31:27 <jfalco> It is after I get finished with em :)
06:31:42 <Subfusc> and the risk of having everything on one drive is not either
06:31:44 <jfalco> well me and their accountant
06:32:02 <Subfusc> haha
06:32:33 <Subfusc> you should have a notice on the receite like "We hope to see you again" or something
06:32:49 <jfalco> lol
06:33:31 <Subfusc> i would start triplebacking up everything if i had just paid $x00 dollars and they want me to come back
06:33:34 <Subfusc> =P
06:34:46 <jfalco> your short a 0 there
06:35:03 <Subfusc> seriously? o.O
06:35:20 <Subfusc> i could buy eight drives for that
06:35:28 <Subfusc> if its a 1 in front
06:35:36 <jfalco> I charge $1500 fro a head swap on a 2.5 inch
06:35:53 <jfalco> that's about 15 drives
06:35:55 <Subfusc> thats like 12 TB of drives o.O
06:36:24 <Subfusc> *12 TB consisting of 12, 1TB drives
06:36:33 <jfalco> yep
06:36:55 <Subfusc> i could 12 x backup everything
06:37:21 <jfalco> I've got 4 coppies of everything of mine
06:37:31 <Subfusc> jfalco: what do they have on the drives that is worth that amount of money?
06:38:28 <jfalco> well the guy i just got done with was from Toyota and had a meeting in the AM, needed a power point and a few spread sheets
06:38:44 <Subfusc> XD
06:38:48 <Subfusc> BURN
06:38:49 <jfalco> sad
06:39:14 <Subfusc> no
06:39:24 <jfalco> and I get to keep the drive :)
06:39:26 <Subfusc> it does not, and should not pay to be ignorant
06:39:26 <Subfusc> =P
06:40:06 <Subfusc> jfalco: do you manage to fix it? or is it just a bad Filetable?
06:41:18 <jfalco> heads just went out on this one, I swap the heads from a donor, image it, burn what they need, and sell em a new drive with the image on it :)
06:41:58 <jfalco> cause i know if i give the "fixed" one they'll keep using it, so I just keep it
06:42:28 <jfalco> once you open one they're pretty much toast in my experience
06:42:37 <Subfusc> yeah
06:42:49 <Subfusc> unless you manage to stay in a steril enviroment
06:42:58 <Subfusc> but you could earn more money on that XD
06:43:08 <jfalco> you'll never get as sterile as the factory
06:43:18 <jfalco> unless you go to a DNA lab
06:43:49 <jfalco> I've got a clean room, but they still fail after comming out
06:43:50 <Subfusc> "here is your old drive, but i dont recommend using it" 2 weeks later: "My disk is broken again, i NEED some files NOW!" "I told you not to use it, cash up!"
06:43:53 <Subfusc> =P
06:44:18 <jfalco> nah the try to run your name in the ground, fo it "breaking" again
06:44:26 <jfalco> *they
06:44:39 <Subfusc> ignorance
06:44:41 <jfalco> so i just keep it
06:45:54 <jfalco> I should write a book "Stupid things people do to computers"
06:46:04 <Subfusc> i bet you mostly fix laptop drives
06:46:18 <jfalco> yeah
06:46:29 <jfalco> they get banged around a lot more
06:46:43 <hiemanshu> Feels no nice after a shower after a game of Soccer
06:46:48 <hiemanshu> s/no/so
06:47:33 <Subfusc> i dont understand why SSD hasnt cought on in the buisness market
06:47:39 <jfalco> got in a Toshiba today with Win 95 on it, ahh memories
06:47:42 <Subfusc> they are much better suited for that kind of enviroment
06:47:50 <Subfusc> Win95?!?!
06:47:50 <hiemanshu> Subfusc: they are pricy
06:48:04 <jfalco> 95 no joke
06:48:17 <Subfusc> who the hell uses that still?
06:48:25 <jfalco> hell 95-98 was the best thing M$ ever made
06:48:25 <hiemanshu> jfalco: nothing with RHL 4
06:48:43 <hiemanshu> 95 is the one release with least bugs
06:48:49 <Subfusc> jfalco: i disagree. Win 2000 was the best version of windows
06:49:16 <jfalco> you would be surprised at the major factories that still use 95,98 for their machines
06:49:16 <Subfusc> Win 2000 Professional edition. Stable as hell, but didnt take games
06:49:34 <jfalco> Vista is my favorite :)
06:49:46 <Subfusc> jfalco: break many drives? =P
06:50:14 <jfalco> Vista paid for my house :)
06:50:26 <Subfusc> loool
06:50:49 <Subfusc> Vista corrupted my drive
06:50:56 <jfalco> NOw that it's paid off, I can show people this Linux thing
06:51:15 <Subfusc> i said fuck it, and formated that part to ext3
06:51:23 <Subfusc> has been working ever since
06:51:24 <Subfusc> ;)
06:51:29 <jfalco> nice
06:51:47 <jfalco> here is something that I run into a lot...
06:51:47 <hiemanshu> I have broken only one HDD so far
06:52:16 <hiemanshu> that was when I threw my old laptop from my bed because Windows XP wouldn't work right on it
06:52:19 <jfalco> I give someone a Fedora disk and they think it can't be any good if it is free.....
06:52:44 <jfalco> If I was to make a fancy blue box and put $100 price on it the same person would love it
06:52:44 <hiemanshu> mchua: ping
06:52:56 <hiemanshu> jfalco: tell they you PIRATED it
06:53:04 <hiemanshu> them**
06:53:09 <hiemanshu> people for some reason love pirated stuff
06:53:15 <jfalco> yep
06:54:02 <jfalco> the other shop here in town is installing win 7 for $30
06:54:25 <Subfusc> i think you would get a lot of buisness from win 7 too
06:54:43 <jfalco> from what I've seen 7 is pretty solid
06:54:50 <jfalco> so far
06:54:50 <Subfusc> after seeing people using it and tried it and seen some statistics. I dont feel its any better than Vista
06:55:11 <Subfusc> the shell takes 200 Mb of ram
06:55:16 <Subfusc> how the hell is that solid?
06:55:19 <jfalco> they'll have to screw it up with a Service Pack soon though
06:56:09 <jfalco> I haven't messed with it much, but I haven't been hearing a lot of complaints
06:56:14 <jfalco> I stay in Linux
06:56:25 <Subfusc> The UI is horrible thou
06:56:43 <jfalco> it's M$ what do you expect?
06:56:45 <Subfusc> seriously, I would have to patch it to look like Win XP to ever want to use it
06:57:19 <Subfusc> jfalco: i dont expect a mixture of Mac OS and Linux on drugs
06:57:31 <jfalco> lol
06:58:04 <Subfusc> they have taken the worst of both UI's and combined it into a monster
06:58:11 <jfalco> Everyone is like "ohh cool look what it does", and I'm like "Linux has done that for years"
06:58:45 <Subfusc> we havent done it with sliding menues, round seethrough frames and a windows logo
06:58:55 <jfalco> tru
06:59:26 <Subfusc> because most of us does not desire spendig 100px on usless frames
06:59:45 <jfalco> yep
06:59:59 <hiemanshu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ID2CbtnKk
07:01:16 <Subfusc> seriously if you want to know how "windows 8" will look like, you could just install Linux and add some round frames
07:01:22 <Subfusc> and you probably got it
07:03:13 <jfalco> nice
07:04:26 <jfalco> anybody in here using fedora on a netbook?
07:04:35 * Subfusc raises a hand
07:04:46 <jfalco> likes, dislikes?
07:04:54 <hiemanshu> jfalco: on a NetTop
07:05:55 <mchua> oh gosh
07:05:57 <mchua> #endmeeting