15:03:21 #startmeeting fedora-qa 15:03:21 Meeting started Mon Jun 11 15:03:21 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:03:21 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:03:37 #meetingname fedora-qa 15:03:37 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:03:47 #topic roll call 15:03:53 who's around for some qa meetage? 15:03:57 * pschindl is here 15:04:00 * mkrizek is here 15:04:14 * maxamillion is here 15:04:24 * tflink is here 15:04:29 * strace is here 15:04:30 * nirik is lurking 15:05:07 * jskladan lurking 15:05:18 * Cerlyn is here 15:05:21 * kparal around 15:05:54 excellent...then i shall UNLEASH THE HOUNDS 15:06:07 * kparal flees 15:06:15 #topic previous meeting review 15:06:21 #topic previous meeting follow-up 15:06:22 sigh. 15:06:33 #chair kparal tflink 15:06:33 Current chairs: adamw kparal tflink 15:06:40 here, use this chair to fend off the hounds...if you can. 15:06:58 #info adamw to review F17 retrospective and come up with an action plan 15:07:12 didn't get this done yet; as you probably saw on friday i got up to clearing through the f16 trac tickets 15:07:12 * tflink grabs a whip and strikes a lion/hound taming pose 15:07:31 so i'm working around to it 15:07:52 any questions/notes/personal insults? 15:08:34 #info adamw to work with rbergeron to make sure housekeeping gets done for f16/f17/f18 15:08:47 oh looky, another one i didn't do yet! well, robyn and i have chatted about housekeeping a bit, but not complete yet. 15:09:26 #info neither retrospective nor housekeeping tasks are complete yet, but adamw is working on both 15:09:41 #action adamw to review F17 retrospective and come up with an action plan 15:09:47 #action adamw to work with rbergeron to make sure housekeeping gets done for f16/f17/f18 15:09:52 i'll just throw 'em back on there for next week. 15:09:58 anything else? 15:10:19 not that I can think of :) 15:10:55 okely dokely, moving on 15:11:09 #topic Fedora 18 check-in 15:11:22 probably nothing doing here, but i thought we'd zoom by just in case 15:11:26 check-in? 15:11:38 just a general f18 topic 15:11:45 first on the list, any news on anaconda?, i think the answer's no. 15:12:53 second, check through f18 features - seemed a good thing to do quickly in a meeting, to see if there's anything else scary on the f18 agenda yet 15:13:00 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/FeatureList 15:13:34 anyone see anything that leaps out? 15:13:35 depends on your defenition of scary I suppose 15:13:54 'things that will require love and care to make sure they bleedin' well work and don't screw up release validation' 15:14:09 those kerberos changes, for e.g., look like the sort of thing that might break remote login... 15:14:11 I'll be partaking in the openshift origin efforts, we'd like to have a test day once we're at that point in the release cycle 15:14:24 ah, rgr 15:14:41 I will be helping with OpenShift Origin also 15:14:50 cool. that would be handled fine by a test day, yeah. 15:15:34 * tflink doesn't see anything else that jumps out as potentially problematic 15:15:52 tflink: +1 15:16:16 there's usermode migration', but that shouldn't be horrible, most central stuff is PK already and we understand it well enough that hopefully nothing will break in migration.. 15:16:30 so yeah, looks like so far, no really scary features outside of anaconda new UI. 15:16:44 * j_dulaney waves 15:16:54 the package group changes could be interesting but that page is a little light on the details 15:17:01 * j_dulaney is still recovering from SELF 15:17:34 tflink: yeah, that's notting's baby 15:17:38 hi dulaney 15:17:59 tflink: i think he's thinking more about the post-install, 'groups you see in packagekit' side, but i agree it's light on detail 15:19:07 it's mostly the upgrade stuff that sounds like it could be interesting 15:19:08 * j_dulaney wonders about the specific topic here 15:19:24 j_dulaney: right, sorry - we're reviewing the F18 feature list at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/FeatureList 15:19:35 "Users who install Fedora 18 and later upgrade will automatically get group changes for the groups that they have installed." 15:19:37 just checking through to make sure we don't see anything scary from a QA perspective there 15:19:41 RGR 15:19:46 tflink: ah, nice catch. yeah, that'll be worth testing. 15:19:57 though it sounds like it mostly affects 19. 15:20:09 although I'm not clear if that applies to people upgrading to F18 or from F18 15:20:18 hey, that's the first time i officially referred to fedora 19 anywhere. *raises small flag* 15:20:28 to me it reads like it applies to upgrades from 18->19 and later. 15:20:43 that would make more sense, regardless of the phrasing 15:22:24 #agreed the current F18 feature list contains no features we find particularly sensitive from a QA standpoint aside from the new anaconda UI. other features to keep an eye on are the package group re-organization, /tmp-on-tmpfs and the kerberos changes. 15:23:10 RPM upgrade may need some poking? 15:23:16 Or should that be fine? 15:23:32 that's the kind of thing that everyone will be testing all the time, unavoidably 15:23:42 Ah 15:23:44 so it likely doesn't need any special poking - we should catch anything that comes up 15:23:59 Same with user mode migration, I imagine? 15:24:24 broadly, yeah, and given that we've been converting things to PK for years, we ought to have the hang of it by now. 15:25:16 next thing on the list was 'retrospective tasks', if i'd done them yet, but i haven't. so, we'll skip that! 15:25:25 #topic Bugzilla upgrade work 15:26:01 okay, so this is a callback to something that came up during f17 final validation - see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20120514 15:26:46 bugzilla got a big version upgrade late in the f17 cycle, and that has impacts on several things that we use in QA. tflink provided a list and we said we'd work on fixing up anything that needs fixing after f17 was done. well, f17 is done now =) 15:26:59 tflink: shall we take the things on the list one at a time? 15:27:16 adamw: works for me 15:27:46 #topic Bugzilla upgrade work - Blocker wiki page will no longer work 15:28:01 so, with the BZ upgrade, the script that updates https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Current_Release_Blockers is broken 15:28:14 tflink and I updated it manually till we were done with f17, but now it's just stuck 15:28:19 had you had some ideas here, tflink? 15:28:24 I've looked at the script a little bit and have fixed a few things but it's not done yet 15:28:48 in the past, we've talked about possible other solutions for tracking blockers that don't rely on MW or scripts being run 15:29:06 I figure that it's a good time to think about that since our previous solution isn't working, anyways 15:29:43 what's on the list? 15:29:52 adamw: the list? 15:30:16 there's a new python-bugzilla. 15:30:25 needs mucho testing by everyone. ;) 15:30:30 tflink: the list of alternative solutions. 15:30:40 nirik: yeah but the scripts using it still need to be updated AFAIK 15:30:55 but it isn't crashing as much any more - still hitting proxy errors last I tried, though 15:31:09 adamw: anything we do would pretty much be custom 15:31:32 you have any ideas you like? throw me a bone =) 15:31:44 the options would be to keep it scripted and on the wiki, keep it scripted and generate static html or start making it a more dynamic webapp that can do better tracking 15:31:59 like keep track of previous blockers, offer different filters of the bugs to view etc. 15:32:35 * tflink is just not sure how much interest there is and whether it would be worth the time needed to write such an app 15:33:03 It would be cool, but I don't think worth the effort 15:33:18 has anyone felt like they wished the current blocker page could do more? 15:33:43 i guess i'm with dulaney, it seems to do the job as is 15:33:58 +1 15:34:12 it might be worth the effort to switch to HTML generation instead of MW 15:34:40 on the idea that it's more robust? 15:34:52 less wonky syntax 15:34:57 in theory 15:35:13 i guess it wouldn't be a huge effort? 15:35:24 we could also get some new features without worrying about app hosting or a db 15:35:34 ie build the filters into the HTML 15:35:50 * nirik might suggest running it in fedora infrastructure... that way we have people who can watch it and knows where it runs, etc. 15:36:19 wouldn't be difficult to get permission, would it? 15:36:28 the other problem with MW is password expiration - we had several times where the page wasn't updated because the updater's pw was only saved for so long 15:37:09 * j_dulaney is starting to lean +1 for HTML 15:37:46 yeah, if it's not much trouble to do, that seems like the sensible route. using MW isn't gaining us anything in particular, the page is always just used alone. 15:38:12 we'd be decreasing the number of edits to the wiki that jlaska is making :) 15:38:21 LOL 15:38:24 tflink: yeah, for those things we setup a bot account that has no password or doesn't expire it's password or the like. 15:38:30 but html works fine too. 15:38:49 nirik: we probably should have done that, yeah 15:39:26 we already run things that do both... generate html/static pages, and edit the wiki... so either one works. 15:39:44 okay, i think we talked this one out 15:39:51 tflink, are you happy to work on this? or does anyone else want it? 15:40:06 I can do it but I'm not really going to stop others from doing it, either 15:40:41 er, would be happy if someone else wanted to do it, rather 15:40:43 if any tooling person is looking for a task and finds this interesting, speak it 15:40:44 let's wait until we have some interns in Brno :) 15:40:45 speak up * 15:41:03 kparal: what's the timeframe on that? we'd want the new page up for alpha, obviously 15:41:23 hmm, hiring date is mid July 15:41:33 when is alpha? 15:41:35 provided we find someone suitable 15:41:44 when do we branch, rather 15:41:50 http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-quality-tasks.html 15:42:01 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/18/Schedule 15:42:14 branch date is july 31 15:42:15 2012-08-07 Branch Fedora 18 from Rawhide-- Branch Freeze 15:42:22 huh 15:42:24 interesting 15:42:29 different on http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-18/f-18-releng-tasks.html 15:42:33 i dunno which wins 15:42:37 first blocker meeting is 2012-07-20 15:42:48 but either way, sounds like slightly tight timing 15:43:59 yeah, I'd rather get it done sooner than later in case there are issues with python-bugzilla 15:44:02 i'd rather have it taken care of by someone who's around now in that case 15:44:02 yup 15:44:31 okay, for now i'll assign to tflink, we can change it if needed 15:44:54 #action tflink to fix up blocker bug page for new bugzilla, probably as fedora-hosted static HTML rather than in MW 15:44:55 works for me, I need to update my blocker meeting prep scripts anyways 15:45:09 tflink: one of us should file a trac ticket too. 15:45:10 and they have some codebase overlap with the wiki update script 15:45:26 #topic Bugzilla upgrade work - Other scripts using python-bugzilla will likely not work after upgrade 15:45:30 for instance =) 15:45:32 what others are there? 15:45:46 adamw: I assume you mean a qa trac ticket to cover the blocker tracking page stuff? If so, I can do that 15:45:59 nothing that I'm aware of in QA land 15:46:15 tflink: yeah. 15:47:03 tflink: there's https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Test_Day_management#Do_a_post-event_review , which is not a script but an ugly hack i dreamed up for getting a list of bugs from a wiki page. should be trivial to patch up if it needs it. 15:47:27 * tflink wonders if we should try to put our scripts in more of a single place 15:47:44 Or at least list them all out 15:48:28 there is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Tools ./ 15:48:43 which looks like it may need an update. 15:48:51 we could request a git repo for the fedora-qa fedorahosted account 15:48:54 if there isn't one already 15:49:32 the more I think about that, the more it sounds like a good idea 15:49:59 at the very least, it could be a base for other scripts - bug output formatting, wiki scraping etc 15:50:08 sure, sounds smart 15:50:17 +1 15:50:21 sounds like /me has multiple actions :) 15:50:31 what about using https://github.com/kparal/fedoraqa ? 15:50:39 #action tflink to set up QA git account 15:50:47 kparal: i'd much rather use a fedorahosted git for 'official' stuff. 15:51:03 it's also not tied to a single persons' account 15:51:06 I have no problem with that, I'll move my scripts there 15:51:36 #topic Bugzilla upgrade work - Bodhi 15:51:41 the final thing on this list was "Waiting on testing this week to find out how badly bodhi will be impacted" 15:51:54 did bodhi get fixed wrt new bugzilla yet? 15:52:02 AFAIK, there was an issue but it's been fixed now 15:52:06 before the new BZ was deployed, yes. 15:52:40 eeeeeek, we've been jackwagoned 15:52:43 thanks luke 15:52:46 :) 15:53:09 #info Bugzilla upgrade work: tflink will take care of the current blockers page, we aren't aware of any other scripts that need fixing, and bodhi has been fixed 15:53:16 * kparal needs to go, bye 15:53:22 kparal: anything for autoqa, quickly? 15:53:34 none 15:53:43 okey dokey! catch you later 15:53:55 anyone have anything else on the new bugzilla? 15:54:05 is it just me, or does the 'distribution release' field not exist/show up any more? 15:54:47 * tflink hadn't noticed but isn't sure if he used it before 15:55:30 click on Detailed Bug Information (not terribly obvious) 15:55:41 ah. thanks, andre 15:55:51 alright, moving on quickly 15:55:56 #topic autoqa update 15:56:02 tim, do you have anything for this one? 15:56:16 nope, I've been working on other stuff, mostly 15:56:45 oh, there was some movement in RATS 15:56:49 * tflink double checks email 15:57:29 nothing major, though 15:57:43 so, no updates from me 15:57:46 okay 15:57:53 #info some minor RATS movement, nothing else from autoqa 15:58:00 i guess work will be ramping up again soon? 15:58:12 hopefully, yes 15:58:15 cool. 15:58:19 alrighty, very quickly... 15:58:21 #topic open floor 15:58:32 anything else anyone can think of we need to talk about? 15:58:34 adamw: Two things from SELF 15:59:17 Firstly, I don't know if this has been communicated to QA at large or not, but Robyn said that Spot will be closing EOL bugs in Bugzilla 15:59:44 j_dulaney: aha, great. that was on the agenda for earlier. i'll check in with them on that one 15:59:56 #info j_dulaney reports that spot will be handling the EOL bug backlog 16:00:05 Secondly, there was some discussion about ARM going primary 16:00:22 #info SELF hosted further discussion of ARM as a primary arch 16:00:42 My side was QA's role in that, but this would probably be better discussed as a full on topic next week 16:00:54 That way we can try to get some of the ARM folks involved 16:01:11 sure. 16:01:18 thanks! 16:01:31 Indeed 16:01:45 If you'll drop that on next week's agenda, that's it 16:02:33 sure. 16:02:36 anyone else? 16:03:31 * adamw sets fuse for X minutes 16:03:52 do we have to solve for X now? This feels like math class :-/ 16:04:04 Is that Roman Numeral X, or X -1 = 0? 16:04:16 who knows! 16:04:33 it's a mystery 16:04:34 dx/dy = sin x 16:04:58 e^(i*pi) 16:05:29 you're all wrong! X is now. 16:05:31 thanks everyone 16:05:33 nirik, why did you have to get all imaginary? 16:05:33 #endmeeting