15:02:11 #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:02:11 Meeting started Mon May 13 15:02:11 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:02:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:02:15 #meetingname fedora-qa 15:02:15 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:02:22 #topic roll call 15:02:28 * jskladan lurks 15:02:29 calling all rolls 15:02:29 roll! 15:02:32 * mkrizek is here 15:02:39 * pschindl is here 15:02:52 * brunowolff is here 15:03:02 * Viking-Ice is here 15:03:23 jreiser lurks 15:03:41 * satellit listening 15:04:15 morning folks 15:04:21 #topic previous meeting follow-up 15:04:26 bit of a bumper crop here 15:04:55 #info "martix or adamw to write a Graphics Test Week recap email" - still not done yet. we suck 15:04:58 #action martix or adamw to write a Graphics Test Week recap email 15:05:15 tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp - I believe you did that? 15:05:28 I don't think I did 15:06:09 nope, I don't see one 15:06:28 ah, well you suck too 15:06:31 #action tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp 15:06:40 "brunowolff to update the FE guidelines to reflect the agreement (see above)" 15:06:41 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-May/115318.html 15:06:44 great job of legibility there, me 15:07:07 #info "brunowolff to update the FE guidelines to reflect the agreement (see above)" - this was done, see https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-May/115318.html 15:07:08 thanks bruno! 15:07:19 I didn't get any feedback from the message posted to the test list. 15:07:19 "adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it" 15:07:32 brunowolff: it looked fine to me, so no action needed...i guess everyone else was the same 15:07:52 yeah, I didn't do this one either, good lord, I need to read my action items 15:08:12 #info "adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it" - not done yet 15:08:14 #action adamw to look into Test_Day:2013-04-30_MariaDB lack of participation and see if we should re-run it 15:08:24 #info "tflink to write a list post announcing the blocker bug proposal webapp" - not done yet 15:08:40 "kparal to ensure abrt and sssd test days have live images ready" - do we have a kparal? 15:08:43 adamw, it's simple no point in re-running it 15:10:41 no kparal, okay 15:10:44 let me take a look 15:11:16 #info "kparal to ensure abrt and sssd test days have live images ready" - this got done, by the looks of things, both pages have live images listed 15:11:48 #info "adamw to do some promotion for the test days" - this was done, i got blog posts and twitter messages out: http://www.happyassassin.net/2013/05/06/abrt-and-sssd-test-days-this-week/ 15:11:59 #topic Fedora 19 Beta status/planning 15:12:20 So, any particular notes on Beta, anyone? we'll be hitting freeze soon 15:12:37 #info Beta TC4 is currently under testing, some significant bugs found already 15:12:40 adamw, promotion means handing it out to marketing not private blog post that nobody reads 15:12:59 gdm greeter to gnome shell does not work on non-3D cards. Bug 955779 graphical desktop does not start. 15:13:03 ( or some or few people read ) marketing should just handle that stuff for us 15:13:04 cwickert asked about images for the non-desktop spins on the spins list. I said that for alpha/beta nightlies should be used. 15:15:44 There is a rumor of gnome 3.8.2 arriving on Tuesday, perhaps fedora-branched on wednesday. Wait and see? 15:16:26 jreiser: did you create passwords for your test users? 15:16:44 jreiser: well, not a rumour, we're trying to get it done ahead of the freeze indeed 15:17:08 yes, I have passwords. This is an alpha that has been updated daily. 15:17:16 i'm pretty sure that "ERROR:gdm-slave.c:1094:_get_uid_and_gid_for_user: assertion failed: (username != NULL)" is what I saw when I tried creating a user with no password via g-i-s (it was entertaining) 15:17:24 hum, then probably something different 15:17:33 can you try and reproduce with a clean install? or not practical? 15:17:53 OK, I'll do a clean install from TC4. 15:18:44 has anyone else seen this one? 15:19:46 Bug 955779 sounds pretty similar to what I was seeing after gdm/gnome-shell got fixed enough that they didn't crash while using llvmpipe on non-SSE2 CPUs. 15:20:02 955779 looks like my 946964 15:20:27 brunowolff: ah yeah, what was the bug# for that? 15:20:30 thanks for that, i'll probably mark mine as a dupe - my video is nvidia btw 15:20:54 No crash, but no transition to desktop. just all gray, everybody waiting. 15:21:08 I am not sure. I was just looking, but I think it got closed since the crashing part was fixed, even if things were still pretty unusable. 15:21:16 I'll look harder. 15:21:28 brunowolff: i remember the bug yeah, i'm just blanking on the # / title 15:21:32 strace shows 1st "can you do 3D" gets a no, but 2nd ask gets a Yes. 15:21:34 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=909473 15:21:47 jreiser: see my latest comment 15:22:38 brunowolff: doesn't really look the same, but certainly possibly related 15:23:44 Yeah, 909473. I think the reported problem was different, but the state after the fix seemed a bit similar. 15:23:50 adamw: 909473 last comment is a question "open new X bug or not?" If that will help, I'll do it. 15:24:13 jreiser: well to me it doesn't, really, but I might be reading it wrong... 15:24:23 jreiser: I think we'd best wait for gdm input at this point 15:24:27 I also was using an ATI 9200 for some of the testing. 15:25:47 I haven't look at it much since, because it takes a lot of messing around to test, since my old slow to boot machines have been switched over to kdm/xfce. 15:25:47 Ok, I'll try clean TC4, then wait for gdm 3.8.2 15:26:09 I see same trouble on xfce, too. 15:26:14 jreiser: i _think_ your issue may simply be a clean report of what happens with a blacklisted 3D adapter at present 15:26:23 now I come to think of it, I'm not sure we have any other bug report for that case 15:26:40 jreiser: have you tested GDM/GNOME with the laundry list of cards in c#13? 15:26:47 i'd guess it'd work better with those? 15:28:50 955779#c13 gives exact status on all cards as of April 23. "3D" cards pass, "X does not support 3D" cards fail. 15:30:42 jreiser: re 955779 do you have gnome-initial-setup installed ? 15:30:50 jreiser: Xfce and lightdm behave completely differently from GNOME and gdm in this regards, so that comment is more confusing than enlightening 15:31:03 it's strange that they seem to respond 'the same' for you, but the actual code paths are pretty different 15:31:13 lightdm doesn't have any form of '3D test' because it doesn't need to care 15:31:19 Please restate what you want me to try. 15:31:20 (afaik anyway) 15:31:39 jreiser: try the combination of GDM/GNOME on all those cards, rather than lightdm/Xfce 15:31:44 i'd personally like you to try yum -y install gnome-initial-setup 15:31:50 only because I know the maintainer would want the same; they do not behave the same at all 15:32:19 So far I have installed default gnome first, then "yum groupinstall xfce-desktop". 15:32:38 I get gdm as greeter. Both gnome desktop and xfce session fail to reach desktop. 15:32:51 ahh interesting 15:32:55 That's why I believe the problem is in gdm. 15:33:09 jreiser: comment #13 talks about trying the Xfce live image. what I'm saying is that that tells us nothing about gdm's behaviour 15:33:44 i just wanted to know how your different adapters/machines behaved with GDM. 15:34:01 clearly you have a problem with GDM on the 9200, but I wanted to clarify if you saw it with any other adapters. 15:34:53 I believe that "X11 supports 3D" implies that gdm+gnome works, and gdm+xfce works. 15:35:16 The problem is "x11 does not support 3d" implies failure of gdm greeter. 15:35:54 anyhow 15:36:01 i think we have Top Men on the case now 15:36:13 jreiser: gnome-session does this little dance at startup 15:36:25 where it first runs check-accelerated and sees if it succeeds 15:36:31 if it fails, it forces software rendering 15:36:36 and then runs check-accelerated again 15:36:44 the second run should always succeed 15:36:52 that's why you see it twice in your trace 15:36:59 it's not able to do accelerated rendering the first time around 15:37:08 so it's falling back to software 15:37:36 #info Beta freeze is tomorrow, 2013-05-14; next goal is to build an RC ASAP 15:37:53 let's chat in #fedora-devel 15:37:54 halfline: yes, that is what I see. This is Pentium4, has sse2. problem is no desktop after that dance. 15:38:13 thanks halfline! 15:38:18 halfline: going to #fedora-devel 15:38:59 brunowolff: so the behaviour on non-SSE2 CPUs is still as bad as described in 909473 > 15:38:59 ? 15:39:54 I need to retest. 15:40:12 But the last time I tried, gnome wasn't really usable. 15:40:14 ok, could you do that? and if it's still bad let's just re-open the bug to try and trigger ajax's attention 15:40:32 #action brunowolff to re-test 909473 and re-open if it's still bad 15:41:00 okay...anything else to cover on the f19 front? 15:41:13 #info GNOME 3.8.2 is coming, we will try to land it in Beta just ahead of the freeze' 15:41:14 Even if it gets fixed, my CPUs aren't really good enough to make gnome pleasant. I'll probably be using xfce for the rest of the lifetime of these machines. 15:41:37 still, it'd be good to have it fixed 15:41:48 * satellit will this break cinnamon? 15:41:53 satellit: will what? 15:41:59 GNOME 3.8.2? I'd hope not; it's a bugfix release 15:42:02 gnome upgrade 15:42:30 fyi cinnamon works at this time 15:42:35 yeah, I know, I tested it 15:42:50 Isn't it landing the day of the freeze? 15:43:04 let's hope it get's included in beta 15:43:18 That's not much time to get it tested and into stable. 15:44:55 brunowolff: yeah, I know, I'm going to try and co-ordinate getting karma on it 15:45:04 if we don't make it, though, we'll file an FE bug 15:45:29 #topic Test Days 15:46:17 #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-07_ABRT went ahead and we got some good results, though not much testing outside of RH's Brno office 15:46:55 #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-05-09_SSSD_Improvements_and_AD_Integration went ahead and looks like there was a good amount of testing 15:47:41 #info NetworkManager test day has been postponed to 2013-06-04: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-06-04_Network_Manager 15:47:56 anything else on test days? 15:48:11 Martix_: is everything in hand for next week's? 15:48:32 no :-( 15:48:58 oh dear :( what's the problem? 15:49:14 note: NM test day has been moved to 2013-06-04 15:49:24 yeah, I noted that 15:49:31 hence "next week's" 15:50:05 AnacondaNewUI Followup and Thermostat are scheduled for next week 15:50:10 I must admit I don't have much time until June for Test Days :-/ 15:50:15 ah 15:50:37 in that case, any help with wrangling the remaining May test days is appreciated, I'll try and help out 15:50:51 adamw: thank you 15:52:14 adamw: btw I suggested to reschedule MariaDB TD, but I'm not sure if they can get more testers 15:52:15 #topic Open floor 15:52:36 we've got 8 minutes for open floor before exciting blocker review fun starts up in #fedora-blocker-review: anything to discuss? 15:53:24 I have collected a few fixes that should help get the desktop live media closer to the target size 15:53:25 * satellit wait for blocker review for FE requst 15:53:27 so what we are going to include the gnome 3.8.2 in beta or not? 15:53:28 I'll send an email to the test list a bit later, would be awesome to get some testing & karma to have them included in the Beta release 15:53:32 (waiting for one more build) 15:54:19 Viking-Ice: i'm hoping we can. if we can get it done ahead of tomorrow, fine. if not, i'll file an FE ticket and people will have to vote on it 15:54:57 Viking-Ice: if you and I each submit karma once the update is in, then we only need one other person :) 15:55:05 (assuming it actually works, of course) 15:55:25 #info GNOME 3.8.2 update should be landing soon, please test and file karma so we can try to get it in ahead of freeze 15:55:36 we'll need some releng coordination to get an updates-testing push once the update is ready 15:55:52 kalev: i'll ask releng to do that, but people can get it from bodhi in the mean time 15:55:53 hard to test otherwise 15:55:53 adamw, yeah well doing so we risk breaking and delaying beta 15:55:55 cool 15:56:12 not doing so we risk mass duplicated bug report from users 15:56:12 Viking-Ice: i think it'd be ok to get it in the first day or two of freeze, after that it'd be worrying 15:56:34 but if we co-ordinate we should be able to get it done today/tomorrow, so hopefully no problems 15:57:42 #info desktop team is still working on getting the spin below the size target 15:58:21 what about the rest of the spins? 15:58:44 did you hear something from cwickert regarding lxde size ( FE ) 15:59:17 oh, good point. no, I haven't, has anyone else? 15:59:35 notting thinks the DVD might squeeze under size on the next compose, so we're keeping an eye open for that 16:00:26 #info no word on LXDE spin being over size, we believe the DVD may make it under size on the next spin 16:00:48 * nirik has been working on Xfce. we are down to deciding about browsers. 16:00:59 #info nirik is working on Xfce spin size 16:01:01 I'll do something today with it, so we should be back under size tomorrow. 16:01:09 blocker review starting up right now over in #fedora-blocker-review, folks 16:01:14 so let's set the Patent Fuse 16:01:19 ??! 16:01:27 * cwickert never heard of it 16:01:32 is it oversized? 16:01:45 cwickert: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958427 16:01:59 oh, damn, i missed that it's assigned to bill :/ 16:02:11 do you want to re-assign to yourself? 16:02:23 robatino: in future it'd be good to CC the maintainer of the spin on 'spin oversize' tickets 16:02:33 or assign it directly to them 16:02:36 perhaps those should be against livecd-spinname? 16:02:42 I will take care of this 16:02:42 yeah, probably 16:02:46 thanks cwickert 16:02:49 good thing we caught it ;) 16:03:00 however I want to say it sucks we are getting fatter and fatter with every releasee 16:03:32 at some point we should consider removing esoteric input methods and fonts nobody needs 16:03:41 anyway, too late for f19 16:03:52 yeah, I have no idea which of the i18n stuff is important. 16:03:53 :( 16:04:18 none? :-P 16:04:44 well, I mean some of the dictionaries or fonts... are they required to make things work? or just an extra? 16:04:49 #info LXDE will continue to target 700 MB, cwickert to work on slimming it down 16:05:24 i reassigned to LiveCD-LXDE 16:05:30 thanks 16:05:35 move on please 16:05:45 and thanks for the heads-up, adamw 16:05:50 nirik: do ask the i18n folks. it sucks when people rip stuff out unnecessarily 16:05:54 cwickert: thank viking 16:06:00 thanks Viking-Ice! 16:06:11 alrighty folks, everyone over to blocker review, thanks for coming! 16:06:21 #endmeeting