15:00:26 <adamw> #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting
15:00:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Apr 27 15:00:26 2020 UTC.
15:00:26 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:26 <zodbot> The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:26 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting'
15:00:31 <adamw> #meetingname fedora-qa
15:00:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'
15:00:35 <adamw> #topic Roll call
15:00:40 <adamw> morning folks! who's around?
15:01:11 <frantisekz> .hello2
15:01:12 <zodbot> frantisekz: frantisekz 'František Zatloukal' <fzatlouk@redhat.com>
15:01:27 * kparal is here
15:02:01 <cmurf> .hello chrismurphy
15:02:03 <zodbot> cmurf: chrismurphy 'Chris Murphy' <bugzilla@colorremedies.com>
15:02:10 <tflink> morning
15:03:44 <adamw> thin crowd
15:04:06 * kparal pokes lruzicka2 lbrabec
15:05:50 <lruzicka> .hello2
15:05:51 <zodbot> lruzicka: lruzicka 'Lukáš Růžička' <lruzicka@redhat.com>
15:06:00 <lruzicka> Uff, finally it let me in
15:06:07 <Southern_Gentlem> .hello jbwillia
15:06:08 <zodbot> Southern_Gentlem: jbwillia 'Ben Williams' <vaioof@gmail.com>
15:07:17 <adamw> what, i didn't know we hired a bouncer
15:08:21 <adamw> alrighty, let's get rolling!
15:08:35 <adamw> #topic Previous meeting follow-up
15:08:51 <adamw> #info no action items from previous meeting
15:08:59 <adamw> anything anyone wanted to follow up on which isn't on the agenda already?
15:10:56 <adamw> okey dokey
15:11:13 <adamw> #topic Fedora 32 wrap-up and tasks
15:11:23 <adamw> #info Fedora 32 was signed off last week and will release tomorrow
15:11:35 <kparal> 🎆
15:11:38 <adamw> thanks to everyone for testing the flood of RCs
15:11:49 <adamw> sorry it was a bit of a bumpy freeze, all sorts of stuff showing up at the last minute
15:12:02 <adamw> #info many thanks to everyone for testing all the RCs
15:12:39 <adamw> kparal: did you do anything on commonbugs?
15:14:19 <adamw> has kparal been eaten by a grue
15:14:22 <adamw> can someone please call GrueBusters
15:14:33 <kparal> yeah, I updated commonbugs
15:14:43 <kparal> all the pending entries are there now
15:15:09 <kparal> if anyone knows a bug that should be there, add it or at least mark it
15:15:38 <adamw> awesome
15:15:43 <adamw> i'll check for anything else i know of later
15:15:53 <adamw> #info commonbugs is updated for F32 Final by kparal
15:16:12 <adamw> anyone aware of anything else we need to line up for f32? i think there isn't really anything, we don't have any previousrelease blockers
15:16:50 <kparal> I'm not aware of anything
15:16:53 <Southern_Gentlem> good work and on to f33
15:17:24 <adamw> ayup
15:18:00 <lruzicka> or hold your peace forever
15:18:07 <adamw> #topic Fedora 33 planning
15:18:16 <adamw> on that note!
15:18:52 <adamw> #info Fedora 33 cycle is live now, first validation event already created a bit early (thanks to Bodhi confusing fedfind)
15:19:30 <adamw> so this cycle i'd like to get out in front of IoT and Silverblue
15:20:06 <kparal> Silverblue is not a primary edition yet
15:20:10 <adamw> no
15:20:22 <adamw> but there is talk about both of them becoming primary/release-blocking/whatever
15:20:41 <kparal> IoT already has, technically :)
15:20:53 <adamw> ugh, where was that?
15:20:55 <cmurf> CoreOS
15:21:01 <cmurf> not Silverblue
15:21:03 <adamw> i think we should talk to council and whoever else to make it clear that needs to be decided definitely well ahead of beta and a plan made of how it's actually going to work
15:21:18 <adamw> cmurf: well, both, but coreos is kinda different.
15:21:22 <kparal> adamw: IoT is there: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/32/ReleaseBlocking
15:21:43 <kparal> we need to poke the right people with a hard enough stick to fix that mess
15:21:57 <kparal> also coreos, yes, but it's a bit different
15:22:06 <adamw> hmm
15:22:09 <adamw> bcott: oy
15:22:11 <adamw> d;oh
15:22:43 <adamw> ahoy bcotton
15:22:46 <bcotton> did somebody say "bcotton"?!
15:22:52 <adamw> so kparal points out an interesting thing i had missed: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/32/ReleaseBlocking
15:22:57 <adamw> note how that has IoT images on it
15:23:04 <bcotton> (i feel like this bit loses a lot in text mode)
15:23:28 <adamw> 1) we should probably have taken them off at some point, 2) why did we not notice this at go/no-go?
15:23:37 <adamw> aren't we supposed to do an 'are all the images there?' check? did we forget?
15:23:46 <bcotton> 1. agreed
15:24:06 <kparal> I actually pestered bcotton and IoT folks to put those images in there. At that time I still thought there was a plan to make them part of the release.
15:24:19 <bcotton> 2. i suppose that's implied in releng's reporting on the RC
15:24:28 <adamw> kparal: you pester him to put them in, i pester him to take them out
15:24:29 <adamw> we're a team!
15:24:34 <kparal> :)
15:24:36 <bcotton> but it probably wouldn't hurt to make it an explicit check
15:24:51 <adamw> yeah, maybe let's do that going forward
15:25:28 <adamw> bcotton: also, while you're here: we'd like this sorted out more clearly and more early for f33
15:26:08 <adamw> if anything's going to be made release-blocking that wasn't before, it needs to be definitely decided reasonably early in the cycle, and there needs to be a plan for how it's going to work if there's anything 'odd' about it (like IoT's whole 'not in the main release' thing)
15:26:48 <adamw> who's actually supposed to be in charge of that? is it council?
15:26:54 <pwhalen> What are the major sticking points for QA? I made sure it was tested, as I do for the other release blocking things I am responsible for
15:27:22 <bcotton> adamw: https://pagure.io/fedora-pgm/pgm_docs/c/81dbf7e407b20210795a9289a4da610ed1e158d1?branch=master
15:27:37 <adamw> pwhalen: if it's not in the main compose we need a documented process for testing and releasing from multiple composes
15:27:40 <bcotton> adamw: for which part, exactly?
15:28:07 <adamw> bcotton: deciding on new release-blocking artifacts and/or primary Editions
15:28:19 <bcotton> editions are definitely a council decision
15:28:34 <pwhalen> OK, my understand was the composes were going to be broken up, or that was something we wanted to do in the future.
15:28:54 <bcotton> release-blocking artifacts should *normally* be done via  a Change proposal, but promotion to an Edition is a special case that implies release blocking but doesn't go through the change process
15:29:04 <adamw> pwhalen: it's a thing mattdm has suggested doing in The Future
15:29:07 <bcotton> as we've discussed, there's not really a good process for that part because it's so rare
15:29:16 <adamw> pwhalen: but vague Future plans don't cut the mustard for releasing Fedora in six months :)
15:29:30 <adamw> bcotton: okay. i guess i will file a council ticket.
15:29:34 <bcotton> but now that 32 is (nearly) out the door, i'll have some time to work on that
15:29:54 <pwhalen> adamw, well, time to make them less vague too
15:30:19 <adamw> #action adamw to file a council ticket, tagging bcotton, to request that any Fedora 33 changes to release-blocking deliverables and/or primary Editions be made early and clearly communicated and planned for
15:30:41 <kparal> I believe one sticking point was pbrobinson's radio silence in tickets/emails where we needed to figure out the compose plans
15:31:01 <pbrobinson> kparal: it's on my todo list
15:31:04 <kparal> that's a big problem when he's the main person behind that edition
15:31:24 <bcotton> not to be that guy, but apart from "hey ben, do this" do you expect any result from teh council ticket? because you can just harass me directly, too :-)
15:31:26 <kparal> pbrobinson: hello
15:33:06 <kparal> pbrobinson: that's great, let's clarify the plans well ahead of F33. Because it might also need a lot of tool changes on our side.
15:33:07 <adamw> bcotton: i expect a paper trail for the purposes of casting blame confidently in future
15:33:11 <adamw> this is always a valuable tool :P
15:33:23 <bcotton> adamw: that's a valid answer :-)
15:33:31 <adamw> but i can hold off on it if you say you're gonna deal with it
15:33:32 <bcotton> i am happy^W willing to be held to account
15:33:44 <adamw> and only start bugging people if we don't hear anything about this in a few weeks
15:34:13 <bcotton> i mean, i'm going to try. having a ticket won't make a difference one way or another, but i'm totally fine with having it for public accountability
15:34:29 <mboddu> pbrobinson: Please let me know if you want to sit and talk about it and I can schedule a meeting.
15:34:32 <adamw> okay. then i'll do it, just to make it a thing the council has to actively think about at least
15:34:33 <bcotton> my plan is to try to get IoT solved as a specific case adn then generalize from there
15:34:49 <pbrobinson> mboddu: probably, but it won't be in the next 2 weeks
15:35:15 <bcotton> mboddu: i'll set up something with you, me, pbrobinson, and mattdm soon (apparently 2+ weeks from now)
15:35:24 <mboddu> pbrobinson: Sure, ping me when you get free, thanks
15:35:33 <mboddu> bcotton: That works too
15:35:42 <mboddu> Maybe add adamw as well
15:35:51 <mboddu> Sorry adamw, more meetings for you :)
15:35:55 <bcotton> i don't like that guy
15:35:57 <bcotton> i mean...um
15:37:04 <adamw> woohoo
15:37:09 <adamw> i love meetings
15:37:15 <adamw> i love them so much i'm in two right now!
15:37:20 <tflink> who doesn't?
15:37:31 <Southern_Gentlem> 3
15:37:41 <mboddu> Haha, I just got out meetings and still have 3 more meetings for today :(
15:37:48 <cmurf> quick, assign everything to adam while his attention is split
15:37:54 <adamw> .fire cmurf
15:37:54 <zodbot> adamw fires cmurf
15:38:02 <adamw> okay, so aside from this, other things for F33...
15:38:17 <adamw> #info there are already several juicy Change proposals, i'll schedule some time to look through them in detail next meeting
15:38:26 <adamw> there's also the Lenovo stuff you may have read about
15:38:27 <mboddu> Anyway, I think I have a plan for IOT, we can discuss it during the meeting
15:39:08 <pbrobinson> mboddu: well do share it with me, I love people making plans on my behalf!
15:40:04 <pbrobinson> mboddu: also note the iot compose process is due to change quite a bit in the f33 cycle
15:40:37 <mboddu> pbrobinson: I think I already mentioned it somewhere in the tickets, having two composes, one that is part of general composes and the other is your composes that you own (basically that one's you are running right now).
15:41:18 <mboddu> pbrobinson: Okay, well, we can discuss it after 2 weeks
15:41:27 <adamw> #info as recently announced, Lenovo is planning to release laptop models with Fedora pre-loaded
15:42:01 <adamw> so RH has been working with them on this, I and the other RH Fedora QA folks were pulled into this a few weeks back, we've had some meetings with lenovo people and they've sent us some hardware for testing
15:42:07 <mboddu> adamw: How is it being tested? and do we ship same repos or something else on top of normal repos? ...
15:42:21 <adamw> while it was still a Sekrit Projekt we told them we can't block on lenovo bugs just because of this project or anything
15:42:30 <adamw> but now it's public, we might look at that going forward
15:42:49 <adamw> mboddu: we didn't set up anything very formal yet because of the whole sekrisy thing, and it's also quite recent
15:42:50 <mboddu> Which adamw will ship to me :P
15:43:00 <mboddu> ^ about h/w
15:43:21 <adamw> for now lenovo has a few folks testing - you probably noticed several late proposed blockers showed up from them - and i think we got like 4 or 6 test laptops or something which we've spread around the RH team
15:44:14 <kparal> (not just for QA, though)
15:44:28 <adamw> #info there may be proposals coming for enhancing the Lenovo support, e.g. blocking release on bugs in supported Lenovo models; anything that happens will be public and within normal Fedora processes, so keep an eye out for proposals
15:44:35 <mboddu> adamw: Okay, as long as they are planning to use the repos that we ship there are no changes needed from releng (maybe they want us to sync the content somewhere, but otherwise nothing should change)
15:44:44 <adamw> mboddu: i'm not sure about the repo question
15:44:54 <adamw> they may plan to have a supplementary repo or something, i'm really not sure
15:45:11 <adamw> i can put you in touch with a couple of the lenovo folks so you can ask them questions if that helps?
15:45:25 <mboddu> Sure, that will help a lot
15:46:02 <adamw> ok
15:46:16 <adamw> #action adamw to put mboddu in touch with some of the Lenovo laptop folks for discussions on anything they need from releng
15:46:35 <mboddu> Thanks adamw++
15:46:42 <adamw> anyone have any questions about this stuff?
15:46:50 <cmurf> yeah i'm vaguely curious about whether/how nvidia stuff plays out
15:46:56 <adamw> good question!
15:47:12 <adamw> they certainly haven't asked us to ship the proprietary driver or anything
15:47:14 <mboddu> cmurf: Hehe, those are the questions I too also have :D
15:47:16 <cmurf> if it's nouveau by default and then what happens if a big kaboom happens
15:47:29 <adamw> i believe they're aiming to have things working decently on nouveau
15:47:46 <kparal> cmurf: probably yes & no idea
15:47:46 <cmurf> or if it's going to somehow enable nvidia's driver, if it'll be signed to avoid kernel taint, and so forth
15:47:47 <adamw> i'm not sure how easily they intend to make the proprietary driver available, tbh
15:47:56 <mboddu> Wow, thats so nice of them
15:48:06 <cmurf> actually i guess even if it's signed, it'll still taint the kernel because it's out of tree
15:48:10 <adamw> i can ask for more details on that
15:48:20 <adamw> in fact...
15:48:36 <adamw> #action adamw to ask Lenovo folks to introduce themselves on test@ and take questions, if they're willing to do that
15:48:56 <adamw> they seem like nice folks and now this is a public thing i think they'll probably be fine with something like that
15:48:58 <mboddu> Or rather devel@ :D
15:49:07 <adamw> maybe not throw them to the devel@ wolves yet :P
15:49:29 <cmurf> who doesn't like a tire fire?
15:49:45 <lruzicka> the devel wolves ....oh my :D
15:49:53 <cmurf> ahh the fresh smell of burning rubber in the morning, afternoon, and evening three days in a row
15:50:02 <adamw> heh
15:50:23 * mboddu wonders where cmurf lives?
15:50:43 <cmurf> Mars
15:50:47 <adamw> ok, we're running short on time
15:50:49 <adamw> well this explains a lot!
15:50:53 <adamw> so moving on to next topic quickly
15:51:02 <adamw> we'll obviously be coming back to f33 in future meetings :)
15:51:17 <adamw> #topic Proposals: backgrounds criterion, last-minute blocker process, service manipulation test case, user switching...
15:51:32 <adamw> so, we're probably not gonna have time for all of this, but wanted to reach it at least in case anyone has anything urgent
15:51:40 <adamw> we have outstanding proposals for:
15:51:54 <adamw> #info changing desktop backgrounds criteria (sgallagh)
15:52:00 <adamw> #info clarifying last-minute blocker process (bcotton)
15:52:24 <adamw> #info tweaking the service manipulation test case (coremodule)
15:52:39 <adamw> #info blocking on user switching (adamw/kparal)
15:53:01 <adamw> all of those have threads on test@ (and some on desktop lists too), so please chip in any thoughts you have
15:53:09 <adamw> anyone have big notes on any of them for today?
15:53:17 <bcotton> not me
15:53:23 <kparal> no
15:53:26 <cmurf> best quote of the release cycle "you somewhat decreased my influence when you introduced the late blocker policy :-/"
15:53:31 <cmurf> that's kparal
15:53:33 <cmurf> :D
15:53:40 <adamw> =)
15:53:47 <cmurf> i'm still cackling at that one
15:53:55 <adamw> that definitely wasn't our intention at all! ahemahem
15:54:43 <adamw> #info please check out all the above proposals on test@ and chip in your thoughts
15:55:09 <adamw> #topic  Test Day / community event status
15:56:02 <adamw> #info IoT Test Day went ahead successfully on 2020-04-15, looks like there were some useful results: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2020-04-15_Fedora_32_IoT_Edition
15:56:16 <adamw> #info Kernel 5.6 Test Week also went off successfully: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2020-04-13_Kernel_5.6_Test_Week
15:56:28 <adamw> F33 cycle plans will be coming up soon, keep an eye out
15:57:02 <adamw> #action adamw to find someone to do F32 Heroes of Fedora posts
15:57:07 <adamw> #topic Open floor
15:57:13 <adamw> whew, that was a packed one!
15:57:18 <adamw> any other business, folks?
15:58:00 <satellit> info that irc is being updated so it will work soon I hope
15:58:01 <lruzicka> I would like to ask, if we want to put the Kiwi TCMS into our process, because if we do, maybe it is time to start fresh.
15:58:17 <adamw> lruzicka: well, i thought we were still planning to trial it
15:58:23 <adamw> the idea was to try it with IoT
15:58:38 <adamw> but that seems to be moving as fast as my changing wikitcms to work with IoT :P
15:58:53 <lruzicka> adamw, but we refused the trial because it was too late, so I am asking whether we are going to start trying.
15:58:59 <adamw> oh, we did? i don't remember that
15:59:11 <kparal> lruzicka: yes
15:59:13 <adamw> anyhoo, i'd say certainly now we're through F32 it'd be fine to try it out any time
15:59:26 <adamw> we definitely need a live trial to see if it'll work well
15:59:35 <adamw> we thought moztrap was going to be good until we tried it :)
16:00:16 <adamw> kparal: i think sumantro has the ball on this atm, right?
16:00:28 <lruzicka> I have spotted the Taskotron Ragnarok happening soon, so could we use its machines to run it?
16:00:47 <tflink> communishift might be a better choice
16:00:55 <tflink> the taskotron boxen aren't long for this world
16:01:06 <adamw> right, and it shouldn't need much in the way of resources
16:01:07 <tflink> s/might/would
16:01:15 <kparal> adamw: I think so
16:01:24 <adamw> i think we're leaving the taskotron boxes behind with the infra move, right tflink?
16:01:30 <tflink> yep
16:01:47 <lruzicka> all right then
16:02:00 <tflink> I expect them to be powered off in the next couple of weeks and sent off to the recyclers shortly thereafter
16:02:04 <adamw> kparal: ok, let's check in on this next time
16:02:18 <adamw> we are over time, so let's wind up!
16:02:21 <adamw> thanks for coming out, everyone
16:02:30 <adamw> i guess we'll meet again next week since we didn't get through everything today :)
16:02:50 <adamw> #endmeeting