15:06:47 #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:06:47 Meeting started Mon Nov 1 15:06:47 2021 UTC. 15:06:47 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 15:06:47 The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 15:06:47 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:06:47 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_qa_meeting' 15:06:52 #meetingname fedora-qa 15:06:52 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:06:57 #topic Roll Call 15:07:31 .hello2 15:07:32 bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' 15:07:43 ahoyhoy, anyone else around for qa meeting fun? 15:08:09 * coremodule is here, ready for fun 15:08:12 kparal: quit hiding at the back there 15:08:31 * kparal sighs 15:08:58 I was actually working, but I can stop... 15:09:07 if you were breaking things, yes 15:09:18 populating CommonBugs 🙂 15:09:59 I'll leave a few items for you, so you don't feel neglected 15:10:25 don't worry, i'll rewrite all of yours later 15:10:45 alright, since i'm late, let's get going 15:10:50 #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:12:02 #info "adamw to draft vaguer and more general startup time criterion (but not too vague)" - still didn't get done, thanks to F35 crunch, i really will get to it soon 15:12:34 #info "adamw to check with sumantro on status of remaining planned test days" - sumantro actually showed up later in the meeting and updated us there 15:12:44 any other follow-up? 15:12:50 .hello chrismurphy 15:12:51 cmurf[m]: chrismurphy 'Chris Murphy' 15:14:20 hi chris 15:14:39 hi 15:15:37 #topic Fedora 35 status and final pre-release plans 15:15:53 #info Fedora 35 RC 1.2 was signed off for release last week, will come out tomorrow 15:16:15 i don't think we have any loose ends to tidy in terms of important updates to push or anything... 15:17:02 #info kparal and adamw will complete commonbugs page today 15:17:39 coremodule: how's heroes of fedora 34 final coming? 15:17:44 I'm going to write the HoF for F35 final today and get it ready for publication 15:18:20 awesome, thanks 15:18:43 #info coremodule will write Heroes of Fedora 35 Final today and get it published ASAP 15:20:10 i think that's all... 15:20:25 #info thanks again to everyone who helped test and prepare F35 final for release 15:22:38 #topic Fedora 36 cycle preview 15:23:26 so, just looking ahead to f36...beta freeze lands on February 22, Final release is scheduled for April 19 15:23:58 systemwide change deadline is December 28th, so still plenty of time for more changes to be submitted 15:24:52 anything we want to change the blocker critieria now than later 15:25:07 the ones we have so far already look interesting/terrifying..authselect changes, and dnf/rpm copy-on-write look interesting in particular 15:25:38 #info F36 dates: beta freeze 2022-02-22, final release 2022-04-19, systemwide change deadline 2021-12-28 15:25:43 #info current F36 changes: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/36/ChangeSet 15:27:19 anything else on f36? 15:28:42 * kparal has a note on F35 15:28:55 note away 15:29:52 according to https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2016253#c34 the "sound is gone" upgrade bug might not be resolved, because it is related to systemd, not fedora-release ordering 15:30:05 so we should probably act on it quickly 15:30:27 I'm not able to verify whether the comment is true or not 15:32:48 it seems plausible, anyway 15:33:08 Conan Kudo: around? 15:34:31 #action adamw to look into https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2016253#c34 (f35 audio upgrade bug) more after the meeting 15:35:18 kparal: ok if we leave it there and move on? 15:35:38 sure 15:36:00 #topic Release criteria / validation test changes from Fedora 35 cycle 15:36:12 so, i proposed a quick tweak to the keyboard layout criterion already 15:36:28 i think there were several other cases where we talked about revising the criteria, trying to remember what they all were... 15:38:56 #info there were several cases where we noted potential criteria improvements during f35 blocker review 15:39:46 #info in discussion of bug 2006393 in the 2021-10-04 blocker review meeting we agreed "we will also start a discussion about explicit (wireless) networking criteria for F36" 15:43:12 #info we also noted a small tweak needed to a criterion that references x86_64 specifically in the 2021-09-20 meeting, and noted the keyboard layout criterion doesn't cover the installer in the 2021-10-25 meeting 15:43:42 #info adamw already proposed a change to the keyboard layout criterion on-list, feedback welcome 15:44:17 #action adamw to edit 'basic functionality' criterion to not specify only x86_64 15:44:32 does anyone want to jump on the 'networking criteria' grenade? 15:45:52 > #action adamw to edit 'basic functionality' criterion to not specify only x86_64 15:45:52 what is this change about? 15:46:21 kparal: it says "All applications that can be launched using the standard graphical mechanism after a default installation of Fedora Workstation on the x86_64 architecture must start successfully and withstand a basic functionality test" 15:46:33 but since aarch64 is release-blocking it seems like it should say "x86_64 or aarch64" 15:46:43 or "x86_64 and aarch64"... 15:46:55 or just be reworded to refer to the generic concept of 'release-blocking arches' or whatever. 15:47:01 no, read the next paragraph: 15:47:01 "For other release-blocking desktops (on any architecture), the requirements only apply to the following types of applications: " 15:47:26 so workstation on aarch64 should have just the reduced coverage 15:47:32 it could be phrased better, yes 15:47:42 oh, right... 15:47:42 but I don't think the idea is to have aarch64 blocking on everything 15:47:45 i missed that wrinkle 15:47:54 #undo 15:47:54 Removing item from minutes: ACTION by adamw at 15:44:17 : adamw to edit 'basic functionality' criterion to not specify only x86_64 15:48:59 #action adamw to try and clarify intent of "default application functionality" criterion regarding arches 15:49:01 thanks 15:49:19 the idea was that only workstation on x86_64 gets all apps covered, everything else just the "important apps" set 15:49:31 ok 15:50:18 yeah, now i see it, but indeed it could probably be clarified... 15:50:37 so the other thing i had for this topic was, do we want to extend the packaging criteria? 15:51:00 aka the Stop Kparal Trying To Define Everything A Package Manager Can Do As Basic Functionality question :P 15:51:48 I'd be +1 to define package manager as having to work perfectly in all it offers 15:52:44 you never want us to release again, do you 15:53:03 revised F36 release date: 2047 15:53:11 if you don't buy that, then a concrete coverage for a package manager would probably be a good idea 15:53:28 that sounds like the sweet sound of somebody volunteering to me! 15:53:33 I plan to propose a concrete coverage from system settings as well 15:53:41 because you butchered it during go/no-go 15:53:46 *for 15:55:21 we already have this, btw: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_35_Beta_Release_Criteria#Installing.2C_removing_and_updating_software 15:55:45 yup, but that doesn't cover a lot of stuff you brought up this cycle 15:55:46 but we don't stick to it always, like when Discover can't install&remove app at one go 15:55:57 managing sources and multiple operations during the same run, for e.g. 15:56:02 to me, it doesn't cover that 15:56:07 discover can install things, and it can remove things 15:56:16 I could propose to extend it for Final, then 15:56:19 the criterion doesn't say it has to be able to install and remove the same app on the same run 15:56:25 sigh, so I'm a volunteer now 15:56:35 man, i might make it as a manager after all! 15:56:37 adamw: and that's were we differ 🙂 15:56:43 to me, it does say it 15:57:19 i mean, you can't logically read the sentence as referring to a series of operations on the same package, because you can't update it after removing it. ;) 15:57:40 no, it must simply work, no exceptions 🙂 15:57:44 hehe 15:57:45 ok 15:57:56 i've got a hard stop at the top of the hour, so cognratulations, you volunteered 15:58:06 ok... 15:58:09 #action kparal to draft revised/extended criteria for package management and system settings 15:58:37 anyone wanna take networking, or shall i leave it open for now? 15:59:28 #info still looking for a volunteer for networking criteria 15:59:32 #topic Open floor 15:59:34 any other business, folks? 16:04:04 no 16:04:11 alrighty, thanks everyone! 16:04:15 have a good week 16:04:18 #endmeeting