<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:00:33
!startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:00:34
Meeting started at 2023-12-11 16:00:33 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:00:34
The Meeting name is 'Fedora QA meeting'
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:00:43
!meetingname fedora-qa
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:00:49
!topic Roll Call
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:01:00
hi folks! who's around for the brave new era of QA meetings?
<@ujjwalmahar:matrix.org>
16:01:22
Heyy, Hi all!!
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:01:26
I'm here I guess
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:02:03
hi hi
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:02:04
Testing, testing...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:02:21
kparal: congratulations, you have ordered 15,607 african parrots for immediate delivery
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:02:37
cancel, cancel, cancel!
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:03:19
if any of them fails to speak, I'll want a refund
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:03:36
kparal: congratulations, you have order 15,608 african parrots for immediate delivery
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:03:48
whew, it's a good thing there are no bugs in this new meeting system
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:04:07
(only parrots)
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:05:37
Hello, is the meeting here?
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:05:40
o/
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:05:58
i am here mostly to make adam's job harder
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:06:08
;)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:09
lruzicka: yes indeed
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:16
Neil Hanlon: it's a job with a long and proud tradition
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:25
alrighty, let's get going
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:06:31
Finally found my way home, then :D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:33
so i can get to the breakfast buffet
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:06:49
!topic Previous meeting follow-up
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:07:21
!info "adamw to consider moving the meeting back to Matrix next time" - well, seems like that's working out so far :)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:07:26
loving the bot reactions
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:07:33
any other followup?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:08:43
I wonder, can I see the current topic somewhere in the client (Element)?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:09:17
i don't think so
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:09:19
no followup from me
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:09:23
i think it's bot only for now
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:09:33
i guess the bot *could* change the room topic but not sure if we want to?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:09:41
Is this the "whinge about the new thing" part of the meeting?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:09:59
I have some whinges, but they can mostly be summed up as "old man yells at cloud"
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:01
Brandon Nielsen: it can be!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:26
ahem, may i direct your attention to the code of conduct entry on the topic of cloudophobia
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:11:09
"Cloud first" strategy, or something
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:26
turns out the old man was way ahead of his time
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:39
srsly though, please air your whinges
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:11:43
synergy!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:47
it's that time of the year, approximately
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:11:57
but make sure you stay on the nice list
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:12:04
The 'matrix.to' link in the email doesn't seem to integrate with my, uh, whatever this tab is I have open?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:12:21
Insert "is this element" butterfly meme
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:12:48
Under suggested rooms, I have "Fedora Meeting", which apparently isn't _this_ Fedora Meeting
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:12:55
Which is confusing
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:13:11
oh, that doesn't sound great
<@coremodule:fedora.im>
16:13:15
wow that was more difficult than it was worth
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:13:16
maybe that's an old bridged room or something?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:13:21
The "People" dropdown is just inop?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:13:36
if you right-click that room and hit Copy Room Link, what's the URL?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:13:48
People shows private chats
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:13:52
Right clicking just brings up a standard "Cut, Copy, Paste" whatever menu
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:13:53
so if you don't have any of those, it won't have anything
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:14:11
That makes sense... *hard eye roll*
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:14:20
hmm, i'm on the 'app' but i was pretty sure the webui has it too...
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:14:51
There's not the "three dots" menu for that room, or "Fedora Meeting 1" which is also suggested
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:14:58
The three dots for this room has a copy link option
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:16:07
It says I'm "Previewing" it, but I'm afraid what will happen if I click "Join", but maybe that's how I make the three dots appear?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:16:29
oh, yes, i think so
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:16:41
nothing much will happen if you click join, you'll just be permanently in the room
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:16:47
you can then leave it if you like
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:16:50
https://matrix.to/#/!djYbUVcTjjxskWCntr:matrix.scrye.com?via=fedora.im&via=matrix.org&via=fedoraproject.org
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:16:53
I did it, for you
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:16:55
That's the link
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:19
huh. That seems to be...on nirik 's homeserver or something?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:25
kevin, what did you do to this poor man
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:17:26
Now it's "Historical"
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:17:30
yeah. that's... odd
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:36
ah, it was probably an old upgraded room or something
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:17:44
kevin installing his malware on our computers /s
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:47
i think kevin upgraded all the rooms a few weeks ago
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:17:53
he did, yeah
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:57
maybe element doesn't handle that so great if you're previewing the room rather than permanently in it?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:18:10
if you're in it when the upgrade happens, you get a notification and a link to click to switch to the upgraded room
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:18:19
I would say I like the infinite history and search, if you twisted my arm to say something nice
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:20:41
And what the heck is a "Space"? How did I join one? Why would I leave it?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:20:57
spaces are ways to organize rooms
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:21:17
so if you're in rooms for completely different purposes you can group them
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:21:28
personally i just always use the All Rooms view but hey, it's there
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:21:34
This seemed to get automagically grouped into "Fedora"?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:21:40
And doesn't appear in my "Home" space.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:21:48
yeah, i think that's a feature that lets a homeserver define a space
<@coremodule:fedora.im>
16:21:51
How do you change that view?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:22:13
Where _is_ that view?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:27
the Home space has a "Show all rooms" option i'm using, apparently
<@coremodule:fedora.im>
16:22:43
ah, thanks. I like that way more.
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:22:49
Ah ha! Neat.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:58
see, matrix can do that too. :D
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:23:16
Look, I reacted, I'm so 2008
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:23:27
wow, you'll beat that cloud yet
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:23:42
btw, there is https://matrix.to/#/#matrix-meta-chat:fedoraproject.org for general 'what the heck is going on with this new-fangled thing' chat *all the time*
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:23:54
That's the sign of a good technology
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:24:26
Where's my "sarcasm" tag
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:24:44
All in all though, I think this is pretty solid?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:24:55
yeah, it's pretty fine
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:25:03
The UI is pretty confusing, but easy enough to fall into where you're trying to go.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:25:10
it could be worse, it could be google chat
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:25:21
And IRC is no more intuitive, I've just been using it longer.
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:25:44
I do wish we had a better "native client" story to tell.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:25:54
yeah, that does bug me a bit :( quaternion is *nearly* good
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:26:06
And that there were more stakeholders in clients in general. It feels very monoculture-ish.
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:26:19
I'm not optimistic for the long term health of this.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:26:21
fractal is good technologically but is obsessed with looking like a phone messaging app for some reason
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:26:44
eh, it's less monoculture-y than a lot of stuff fedora uses. at least *other* f/oss things are using this. :D and we are actually paying for it!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:27:06
alrighty, for the sake of my rumbling stomach, let's get through the agenda
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:27:31
!topic Fedora 40 check-in
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:27:36
so, it's mostly not on fire
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:27:47
i swear to god i had a specific thing to bring up here and it has completely slipped my mind
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:28:51
but yeah, tests are mostly green, i'm running it day-to-day without major issues
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:29:11
oh, right, the thing! please everyone remember webui is now coming in f40 so we need to be testing that again
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:29:46
i noticed https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2234640 is still unaddressed so i'm gonna take that back to fesco if it's not either reverted or a Change filed soon
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:31:30
I did an install with the last nominated compose, I liked it a lot
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:31:34
That bug is kinda gross though
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:32:52
anyone else have any notes on current rawhide?
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:33:28
not I
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:34:24
alrighty
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:35:08
!info 40 is looking mostly fine right now, tests are mostly passing with a few known issues and the mysterious GNOME bug where clicking on stuff in openQA sometimes doesn't work. please remember to keep testing the new installer UI
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:35:11
!topic Communications overhaul: Discourse and Matrix?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:35:29
Whinge session 2, electric boogaloo
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:35:38
so, matrix seems to be going okay
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:35:39
😆
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:35:54
will anyone be too mean to clouds if i go through the wiki and docs after this meeting and point everything to matrix only?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:36:03
i don't think it's sustainable to point to both matrix and irc if there's no bridging
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:36:14
and if we decide it's a mistake or matrix falls apart, we can always go back
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:36:15
I think a consistent "chat" story would be good, so please do?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:36:29
we even have a ticket for it: https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/758
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:36:34
yaaay tickets
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:36:51
+1 to replace all references of irc with matrix
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:37:12
if anyone sees keanu reeves around the place, give me a headsup
<@tflink:fedora.im>
16:37:26
agreed that consistency is more important than anything else and the pull seems to be towards matrix
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:37:43
(though actually he's on tour with his band. i read a review of it with the best diss i've seen all year. "Reeves' bass has four strings and some frets and he knows what to do with almost all of them.")
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:37:45
Does this get archived in some kind of Google-able format somehow?
<@tflink:fedora.im>
16:38:05
yeah, it shows up on meetbot.fp.o
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:38:06
Brandon Nielsen: it should get archived just like irc meetings did
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:38:13
that's what i'll check when we're done
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:38:19
I guess you can get "share" links to messages, those can go in e-mails
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:38:37
Though I don't like the links aren't from a "chat.fedoraproject.org" URL
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:39:24
Just like I don't like the link in the meeting e-mail is a "matrix.to" link
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:39:32
But maybe I just need to accept it and move on
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:39:51
I agree
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:39:53
i'm not sure if we can do anything about that
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:40:15
it might be that way to make federation work or something
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:41:39
The links on meetbot point toward <ROOM>.matrix.fedoraproject.org
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:41:43
Which I like better
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:43:03
oh, so i guess it is possible? maybe just a feature element could add, or something...
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:43:20
looks like we could self host a redirect thigny, too https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix.to
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:45:10
but then you'd still have to get the client to use links from that, somehow...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:45:14
might be a server setting? i dunno
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:45:32
My client doesn't ingest the links anyway, so...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:46:04
i mean, when producing links
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:47:01
i *really* want to know what nscnt has to say
<@nscnt:matrix.org>
16:47:12
Large Matrix rooms tend to corrupt, by the way. In a community I belong to, the problem occurs once in a blue moon with ~10,000 members.
The Matrix maintainers are somewhat aware of the issue. They weren't pleased when a public issue was opened a few years ago.
Matrix is the relatively best option, although not the absolute best. :/
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:47:59
well, when we have 10,000 people willing to show up to a qa meeting we'll run that risk :D
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:48:11
I do not believe that we are going to host 10000 people for a meeting.
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:48:42
My bigger concern from that message is them being displeased about public issues, not so much the issue itself
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:49:12
*cough* monoculture *cough*
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:02
well, we can't really solve that here
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:50:10
Yeah, it is what it is
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:15
in the end, if matrix doesn't work out, we'll have options
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:50:21
And what it is, is plenty good enough
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:41
!topic Test Day / community event status
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:53
!info let's skip this for now as sumantro couldn't make it (family issues)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:58
!topic Open floor
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:51:05
any other business? cloud shouting part 3? :D
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:51:31
it's only monday...
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:52:09
Is shim gonna be fixed on all hardware?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:52:14
Is that finally going to land?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:54:00
i hope so
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:54:09
i'll poke the issue again in a bit
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:54:15
it sounds like the required bits finally landed upstream at least
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:56:13
alrighty, sounds like we're about done
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:56:16
thanks for coming everyone
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:56:58
thanks
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:57:27
Bye!
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:57:44
!endmeeting