2023-12-11 16:00:33 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
2023-12-11 16:00:34 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2023-12-11 16:00:33 UTC
2023-12-11 16:00:34 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora QA meeting'
2023-12-11 16:00:43 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !meetingname fedora-qa
2023-12-11 16:00:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2023-12-11 16:01:00 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hi folks! who's around for the brave new era of QA meetings?
2023-12-11 16:01:22 <@ujjwalmahar:matrix.org> Heyy, Hi all!! 
2023-12-11 16:01:26 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I'm here I guess
2023-12-11 16:02:03 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hi hi
2023-12-11 16:02:04 <@kparal:matrix.org> Testing, testing...
2023-12-11 16:02:21 <@adamwill:fedora.im> kparal: congratulations, you have ordered 15,607 african parrots for immediate delivery
2023-12-11 16:02:37 <@kparal:matrix.org> cancel, cancel, cancel!
2023-12-11 16:03:19 <@kparal:matrix.org> if any of them fails to speak, I'll want a refund
2023-12-11 16:03:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> kparal: congratulations, you have order 15,608 african parrots for immediate delivery
2023-12-11 16:03:48 <@adamwill:fedora.im> whew, it's a good thing there are no bugs in this new meeting system
2023-12-11 16:04:07 <@adamwill:fedora.im> (only parrots)
2023-12-11 16:05:37 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Hello, is the meeting here?
2023-12-11 16:05:40 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> o/
2023-12-11 16:05:58 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> i am here mostly to make adam's job harder
2023-12-11 16:06:08 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> ;) 
2023-12-11 16:06:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> lruzicka: yes indeed
2023-12-11 16:06:16 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon: it's a job with a long and proud tradition
2023-12-11 16:06:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty, let's get going
2023-12-11 16:06:31 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> Finally found my way home, then :D
2023-12-11 16:06:33 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so i can get to the breakfast buffet
2023-12-11 16:06:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Previous meeting follow-up
2023-12-11 16:07:21 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info "adamw to consider moving the meeting back to Matrix next time" - well, seems like that's working out so far :)
2023-12-11 16:07:26 <@adamwill:fedora.im> loving the bot reactions
2023-12-11 16:07:33 <@adamwill:fedora.im> any other followup?
2023-12-11 16:08:43 <@kparal:matrix.org> I wonder, can I see the current topic somewhere in the client (Element)?
2023-12-11 16:09:17 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i don't think so
2023-12-11 16:09:19 <@kparal:matrix.org> no followup from me
2023-12-11 16:09:23 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i think it's bot only for now
2023-12-11 16:09:33 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i guess the bot *could* change the room topic but not sure if we want to?
2023-12-11 16:09:41 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Is this the "whinge about the new thing" part of the meeting?
2023-12-11 16:09:59 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I have some whinges, but they can mostly be summed up as "old man yells at cloud"
2023-12-11 16:10:01 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: it can be!
2023-12-11 16:10:26 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ahem, may i direct your attention to the code of conduct entry on the topic of cloudophobia
2023-12-11 16:11:09 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> "Cloud first" strategy, or something
2023-12-11 16:11:26 <@adamwill:fedora.im> turns out the old man was way ahead of his time
2023-12-11 16:11:39 <@adamwill:fedora.im> srsly though, please air your whinges
2023-12-11 16:11:43 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> synergy!
2023-12-11 16:11:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it's that time of the year, approximately
2023-12-11 16:11:57 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> but make sure you stay on the nice list
2023-12-11 16:12:04 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> The 'matrix.to' link in the email doesn't seem to integrate with my, uh, whatever this tab is I have open?
2023-12-11 16:12:21 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Insert "is this element" butterfly meme
2023-12-11 16:12:48 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Under suggested rooms, I have "Fedora Meeting", which apparently isn't _this_ Fedora Meeting
2023-12-11 16:12:55 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Which is confusing
2023-12-11 16:13:11 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, that doesn't sound great
2023-12-11 16:13:15 <@coremodule:fedora.im> wow that was more difficult than it was worth
2023-12-11 16:13:16 <@adamwill:fedora.im> maybe that's an old bridged room or something?
2023-12-11 16:13:21 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> The "People" dropdown is just inop?
2023-12-11 16:13:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if you right-click that room and hit Copy Room Link, what's the URL?
2023-12-11 16:13:48 <@adamwill:fedora.im> People shows private chats
2023-12-11 16:13:52 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Right clicking just brings up a standard "Cut, Copy, Paste" whatever menu
2023-12-11 16:13:53 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so if you don't have any of those, it won't have anything
2023-12-11 16:14:11 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> That  makes sense... *hard eye roll*
2023-12-11 16:14:20 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hmm, i'm on the 'app' but i was pretty sure the webui has it too...
2023-12-11 16:14:51 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> There's not the "three dots" menu for that room, or "Fedora Meeting 1" which is also suggested
2023-12-11 16:14:58 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> The three dots for this room has a copy link option
2023-12-11 16:16:07 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> It says I'm "Previewing" it, but I'm afraid what will happen if I click "Join", but maybe that's how I make the three dots appear?
2023-12-11 16:16:29 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, yes, i think so
2023-12-11 16:16:41 <@adamwill:fedora.im> nothing much will happen if you click join, you'll just be permanently in the room
2023-12-11 16:16:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> you can then leave it if you like
2023-12-11 16:16:50 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> https://matrix.to/#/!djYbUVcTjjxskWCntr:matrix.scrye.com?via=fedora.im&via=matrix.org&via=fedoraproject.org
2023-12-11 16:16:53 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I did it, for you
2023-12-11 16:16:55 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> That's the link
2023-12-11 16:17:19 <@adamwill:fedora.im> huh. That seems to be...on nirik 's homeserver or something?
2023-12-11 16:17:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> kevin, what did you do to this poor man
2023-12-11 16:17:26 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Now it's "Historical"
2023-12-11 16:17:30 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> yeah. that's... odd
2023-12-11 16:17:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ah, it was probably an old upgraded room or something
2023-12-11 16:17:44 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> kevin installing his malware on our computers /s
2023-12-11 16:17:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i think kevin upgraded all the rooms a few weeks ago
2023-12-11 16:17:53 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> he did, yeah
2023-12-11 16:17:57 <@adamwill:fedora.im> maybe element doesn't handle that so great if you're previewing the room rather than permanently in it?
2023-12-11 16:18:10 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if you're in it when the upgrade happens, you get a notification and a link to click to switch to the upgraded room
2023-12-11 16:18:19 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I would say I like the infinite history and search, if you twisted my arm to say something nice
2023-12-11 16:20:41 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And what the heck is a "Space"? How did I join one? Why would I leave it?
2023-12-11 16:20:57 <@adamwill:fedora.im> spaces are ways to organize rooms
2023-12-11 16:21:17 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so if you're in rooms for completely different purposes you can group them
2023-12-11 16:21:28 <@adamwill:fedora.im> personally i just always use the All Rooms view but hey, it's there
2023-12-11 16:21:34 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> This seemed to get automagically grouped into "Fedora"?
2023-12-11 16:21:40 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And doesn't appear in my "Home" space.
2023-12-11 16:21:48 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yeah, i think that's a feature that lets a homeserver define a space
2023-12-11 16:21:51 <@coremodule:fedora.im> How do you change that view?
2023-12-11 16:22:13 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Where _is_ that view?
2023-12-11 16:22:27 <@adamwill:fedora.im> the Home space has a "Show all rooms" option i'm using, apparently
2023-12-11 16:22:43 <@coremodule:fedora.im> ah, thanks. I like that way more.
2023-12-11 16:22:49 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Ah ha! Neat.
2023-12-11 16:22:58 <@adamwill:fedora.im> see, matrix can do that too. :D
2023-12-11 16:23:16 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Look, I reacted, I'm so 2008
2023-12-11 16:23:27 <@adamwill:fedora.im> wow, you'll beat that cloud yet
2023-12-11 16:23:42 <@adamwill:fedora.im> btw, there is https://matrix.to/#/#matrix-meta-chat:fedoraproject.org for general 'what the heck is going on with this new-fangled thing' chat *all the time*
2023-12-11 16:23:54 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> That's the sign of a good technology
2023-12-11 16:24:26 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Where's my "sarcasm" tag
2023-12-11 16:24:44 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> All in all though, I think this is pretty solid?
2023-12-11 16:24:55 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yeah, it's pretty fine
2023-12-11 16:25:03 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> The UI is pretty confusing, but easy enough to fall into where you're trying to go.
2023-12-11 16:25:10 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it could be worse, it could be google chat
2023-12-11 16:25:21 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And IRC is no more intuitive, I've just been using it longer.
2023-12-11 16:25:44 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I do wish we had a better "native client" story to tell.
2023-12-11 16:25:54 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yeah, that does bug me a bit :( quaternion is *nearly* good
2023-12-11 16:26:06 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And that there were more stakeholders in clients in general. It feels very monoculture-ish.
2023-12-11 16:26:19 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I'm not optimistic for the long term health of this.
2023-12-11 16:26:21 <@adamwill:fedora.im> fractal is good technologically but is obsessed with looking like a phone messaging app for some reason
2023-12-11 16:26:44 <@adamwill:fedora.im> eh, it's less monoculture-y than a lot of stuff fedora uses. at least *other* f/oss things are using this. :D and we are actually paying for it!
2023-12-11 16:27:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty, for the sake of my rumbling stomach, let's get through the agenda
2023-12-11 16:27:31 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Fedora 40 check-in
2023-12-11 16:27:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so, it's mostly not on fire
2023-12-11 16:27:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i swear to god i had a specific thing to bring up here and it has completely slipped my mind
2023-12-11 16:28:51 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but yeah, tests are mostly green, i'm running it day-to-day without major issues
2023-12-11 16:29:11 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, right, the thing! please everyone remember webui is now coming in f40 so we need to be testing that again
2023-12-11 16:29:46 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i noticed https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2234640 is still unaddressed so i'm gonna take that back to fesco if it's not either reverted or a Change filed soon
2023-12-11 16:31:30 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I did an install with the last nominated compose, I liked it a lot
2023-12-11 16:31:34 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> That bug is kinda gross though
2023-12-11 16:32:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anyone else have any notes on current rawhide?
2023-12-11 16:33:28 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> not I
2023-12-11 16:34:24 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty
2023-12-11 16:35:08 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info 40 is looking mostly fine right now, tests are mostly passing with a few known issues and the mysterious GNOME bug where clicking on stuff in openQA sometimes doesn't work. please remember to keep testing the new installer UI
2023-12-11 16:35:11 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Communications overhaul: Discourse and Matrix?
2023-12-11 16:35:29 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Whinge session 2, electric boogaloo
2023-12-11 16:35:38 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so, matrix seems to be going okay
2023-12-11 16:35:39 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> 😆
2023-12-11 16:35:54 <@adamwill:fedora.im> will anyone be too mean to clouds if i go through the wiki and docs after this meeting and point everything to matrix only?
2023-12-11 16:36:03 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i don't think it's sustainable to point to both matrix and irc if there's no bridging
2023-12-11 16:36:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> and if we decide it's a mistake or matrix falls apart, we can always go back
2023-12-11 16:36:15 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I think a consistent "chat" story would be good, so please do?
2023-12-11 16:36:29 <@kparal:matrix.org> we even have a ticket for it: https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/758
2023-12-11 16:36:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yaaay tickets
2023-12-11 16:36:51 <@kparal:matrix.org> +1 to replace all references of irc with matrix
2023-12-11 16:37:12 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if anyone sees keanu reeves around the place, give me a headsup
2023-12-11 16:37:26 <@tflink:fedora.im> agreed that consistency is more important than anything else and the pull seems to be towards matrix
2023-12-11 16:37:43 <@adamwill:fedora.im> (though actually he's on tour with his band. i read a review of it with the best diss i've seen all year. "Reeves' bass has four strings and some frets and he knows what to do with almost all of them.")
2023-12-11 16:37:45 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Does this get archived in some kind of Google-able format somehow?
2023-12-11 16:38:05 <@tflink:fedora.im> yeah, it shows up on meetbot.fp.o
2023-12-11 16:38:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: it should get archived just like irc meetings did
2023-12-11 16:38:13 <@adamwill:fedora.im> that's what i'll check when we're done
2023-12-11 16:38:19 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I guess you can get "share" links to messages, those can go in e-mails
2023-12-11 16:38:37 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Though I don't like the links aren't from a "chat.fedoraproject.org" URL
2023-12-11 16:39:24 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Just like I don't like the link in the meeting e-mail is a "matrix.to" link
2023-12-11 16:39:32 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> But maybe I just need to accept it and move on
2023-12-11 16:39:51 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I agree
2023-12-11 16:39:53 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i'm not sure if we can do anything about that
2023-12-11 16:40:15 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it might be that way to make federation work or something
2023-12-11 16:41:39 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> The links on meetbot point toward <ROOM>.matrix.fedoraproject.org
2023-12-11 16:41:43 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Which I like better
2023-12-11 16:43:03 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, so i guess it is possible? maybe just a feature element could add, or something...
2023-12-11 16:43:20 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> looks like we could self host a redirect thigny, too https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix.to
2023-12-11 16:45:10 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but then you'd still have to get the client to use links from that, somehow...
2023-12-11 16:45:14 <@adamwill:fedora.im> might be a server setting? i dunno
2023-12-11 16:45:32 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> My client doesn't ingest the links anyway, so...
2023-12-11 16:46:04 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i mean, when producing links
2023-12-11 16:47:01 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i *really* want to know what nscnt has to say
2023-12-11 16:47:12 <@nscnt:matrix.org> Large Matrix rooms tend to corrupt, by the way. In a community I belong to, the problem occurs once in a blue moon with ~10,000 members.

The Matrix maintainers are somewhat aware of the issue. They weren't pleased when a public issue was opened a few years ago.

Matrix is the relatively best option, although not the absolute best. :/
2023-12-11 16:47:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> well, when we have 10,000 people willing to show up to a qa meeting we'll run that risk :D
2023-12-11 16:48:11 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I do not believe that we are going to host 10000 people for a meeting.
2023-12-11 16:48:42 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> My bigger concern from that message is them being displeased about public issues, not so much the issue itself
2023-12-11 16:49:12 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> *cough* monoculture *cough*
2023-12-11 16:50:02 <@adamwill:fedora.im> well, we can't really solve that here
2023-12-11 16:50:10 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Yeah, it is what it is
2023-12-11 16:50:15 <@adamwill:fedora.im> in the end, if matrix doesn't work out, we'll have options
2023-12-11 16:50:21 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> And what it is, is plenty good enough
2023-12-11 16:50:41 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Test Day / community event status
2023-12-11 16:50:53 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info let's skip this for now as sumantro couldn't make it (family issues)
2023-12-11 16:50:58 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2023-12-11 16:51:05 <@adamwill:fedora.im> any other business? cloud shouting part 3? :D
2023-12-11 16:51:31 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> it's only monday...
2023-12-11 16:52:09 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Is shim gonna be fixed on all hardware?
2023-12-11 16:52:14 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Is that finally going to land?
2023-12-11 16:54:00 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i hope so
2023-12-11 16:54:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i'll poke the issue again in a bit
2023-12-11 16:54:15 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it sounds like the required bits finally landed upstream at least
2023-12-11 16:56:13 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty, sounds like we're about done
2023-12-11 16:56:16 <@adamwill:fedora.im> thanks for coming everyone
2023-12-11 16:56:58 <@kparal:matrix.org> thanks
2023-12-11 16:57:27 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Bye!
2023-12-11 16:57:44 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !endmeeting