<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:01:56
!startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:01:57
Meeting started at 2024-01-08 16:01:56 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
16:01:57
The Meeting name is 'Fedora QA meeting'
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:02:02
!meetingname fedora-qa
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:02:06
!topic Roll Call
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:02:25
ahoyhoy, who's around for the qa meeting? nobody from flatpak is allowed to leave, you are all qa now
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:02:26
it's contagious
<@pboy:fedora.im>
16:02:40
I'm here
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:03:02
I'm here
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:03:10
.hello2
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:03:16
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:03:17
Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
16:03:26
morning, all. happy new year, etc etc
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:03:39
happy new year indeed
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:05:03
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:05:04
Aoife Moloney (amoloney)
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:05:10
hello everyone!
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:05:11
!ji
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:05:14
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:05:17
No Fedora Accounts users have the @lruzicka:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:00
alllrighty
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:09
!topic Previous meeting follow-up
<@tflink:fedora.im>
16:08:21
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
16:08:22
Tim Flink (tflink)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:08:35
!info no action items from the previous meeting, does anybody have anything that wasn't marked as an action item?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:09:47
!undo
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:09:55
hmm
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:44
well now i'm in a quandary
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:47
did the undo work or not?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:10:55
i guess a dupe is better than no record
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:10:59
I'm going with "not"
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:08
!info no action items from the previous meeting
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:11
alrighty
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:11:23
!topic Fedora 40 check-in
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:12:25
!info we have 4 proposed blockers and 6 accepted blockers for F40 (though 4 of the accepted blockers are image size bugs and we're in the process of lifting those limits). would be good for folks to vote on the proposals
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:12:36
!action adamw to contact bootloader folks about plans for shim in F40
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:08
if you look at https://pagure.io/fesco/issues?status=Open&tags=system+wide+change&tags=self+contained+change&close_status= you can see there are still some juicy Changes coming through the pipe
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:30
we may be getting yet another image build tool to worry about (...yay)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:17:52
"Assign individual, stable MAC addresses for Wi-Fi connections" seems kinda neat but also possibly the kind of thing that may have unintended consequences
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:18:21
"Unify /usr/bin and /usr/sbin" is obviously significant and "Rename/Change Firefox desktop file" has already caused several problems
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:19:37
as an FYI too there are x4 changes to be announced today that fell into the shutdown/vacation and change proposal deadline - two of which relate to AI
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:20:07
this is just extra info at this point though, not actionable so sorry if this is clutter
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:21:01
no problem, it's good to know
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:22:04
!info there are still four more change proposals to come as they were proposed before deadlines over the holidays
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:23:07
the AI change proposal owners are new to the process, they have been in contact with me for a few weeks and I have their proposals now to announce with the others all together before drawing a hard line that were closed for F40 now....if thats a thing! Although Im sure exceptions can be made when necessary and needed
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:27:36
if the change is mostly about adding new stuff, that's generally less of an issue for us
<@tflink:fedora.im>
16:27:37
which AI change proposal is system-wide?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:30:16
one will be bringing Pytorch to fedora - The goal of packaging PyTorch for Fedora is to make this open-source machine learning framework easily accessible and seamlessly integrable within the Fedora Linux ecosystem. By providing PyTorch as a packaged software in the Fedora repositories, users gain simplified installation and maintenance processes. This enhances the accessibility of PyTorch for Fedora users, fostering a conducive environment for developers, researchers, and enthusiasts to leverage the capabilities of this powerful machine learning framework. Additionally, packaging PyTorch for Fedora contributes to the broader open-source community by promoting collaborative development and innovation in the field of machine learning on the Fedora platform.
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:31:21
Ive pulled this from the gdoc the owners shared with me today - I need to add it as a wiki page. They had no permissions to create one, I suspect they need to be added to a group to be able to do this so this is a workaround for now in the interest of time
<@tflink:fedora.im>
16:31:48
how is pytorch system-wide? isn't the self-contained change proposal deadline tomorrow?
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:32:13
then theyre not late at all....!
<@tflink:fedora.im>
16:32:38
I realize that I just asked a question but this seems out of scope for the current meeting, shall we take this elsewhere?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:38
in the interests of time, maybe
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:33:43
Sure! Didnt want to clutter the chat here, but also didnt want to not mention them and have it be an issue later because of my ignorance :-D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:52
but yeah, the 'self-contained' / 'systemwide' distinction has always been a terrible one anyway and we should fix it
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:33:59
homework for aoife :D
<@tflink:fedora.im>
16:34:26
no worries, I'm mostly interested because I'm involved with the pytorch and ROCm proposals
<@amoloney:fedora.im>
16:34:50
excellent :)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:38:43
!info in general F40 seems to be in solid shape at the moment, no major breakages
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
16:39:28
❤️
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:42:51
!topic Communications overhaul: Discourse?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:43:06
so i've brought this up a few times, but at least we have a few more folks now, and we've more or less 'completed' moving to matrix
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:43:10
so this is just about discourse now
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:43:20
i meant to announce this meeting on discourse as well, but forgot. oh well. :D
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:43:51
so the idea is still to move discussion etc. from the mailing list(s) to discourse. how are folks feeling about this? what have your experiences with discourse been?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:44:28
I don't love it, but it's definitely easier to use from a phone, which is unfortunately my primary method is keeping up with things right now.
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:45:00
My experience is good, and it would make it better approachable for the general public
<@tflink:fedora.im>
16:45:06
I don't care a whole lot so long as we don't end up split with half the people on one thing and half the people on the other
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:45:06
I wish there was a better threaded view somehow. Maybe I've just missed it.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
16:45:36
I don't love either and I suppose e.g. Server WG will stay with mailing list and chat
<@pboy:fedora.im>
16:47:27
It is certainly more powerful, but more inefficient. Far too many functions that are superfluous for the purpose and only cost time.
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:10
okay, so...i think we should at least tentatively move ahead with this
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:20
do we maybe want to come up with concrete first steps? any thoughts, Kamil Páral ?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:50:40
maybe start by duplicating things like meeting announcements and summary mails to discourse?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:50:46
Will there be a dedicated Category?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:51:00
Or more likely I suppose, a tag
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:51:03
there's a tag already
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:51:12
yeah, we have a tag already
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:51:19
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA#Discussion_(forum)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:51:24
weren't we talking about getting a category or a group or one of those words?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:51:27
Which aren't listed alphabetically...
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:51:55
we were: https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/744
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:51:57
(yes, groups are a thing, https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/g )
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:52:32
although i think primarily groups are a sort of organizational function not a...way of categorizing material...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:52:45
anyway, the tag is https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/tag/quality-team
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:52:51
the groups are not required for the move, I think. just having the tag is enough
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:54:12
we should start directing official information like announcements (meetings, test days, probably composes etc) there, yes. And ask everybody on test list to subscribe to our tag.
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:54:49
Can the meeting announcements include a link to chat.fedoraproject.org?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:55:13
I edited fedocal event a short while ago
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:55:17
It seems odd to me have a Matrix link, but not a link that promotes easy use of FAS
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:55:28
At least in the annoucement emails.
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:55:32
the email announcement already contains: # Location: https://matrix.to/#/#meeting:fedoraproject.org
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:55:53
Right, but that takes you to vanilla Matrix
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:55:56
i think brandon is saying the link shouldn't use matrix.to ?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:55:57
but we should also link to chat.fp.o, yes. Or some guide.
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:56:04
Which I could not figure out how to make work with FAS
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:56:18
that's just the URL i get when right-clicking this room, honestly
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:56:25
if someone can give me a better URL via fedora.im , please do :D
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:56:31
Yes, it works right after I'm already signed in
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:56:42
But that's, not super intuitive?
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
16:57:46
( https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/how-to-link-to-a-fedora-chat-matrix-room/33186/1 ) ?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:58:00
I already tried to improve https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/communications/#_chat here https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/issue/214
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:58:05
more improvements welcome
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:58:16
Actually, no, the link doesn't even work despite the fact I'm signed in with FAS via chat.fedoraproject.org
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
16:58:22
Asks me to preview
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:58:41
nirik: thanks. now i just have to remember that when i'm writing the next announcement email. :D
<@kparal:matrix.org>
16:59:11
and I guess I'll need to edit our docs once again
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
16:59:40
Brandon Nielsen: i agree it's a problem, i just didn't know about it
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
17:00:57
If that's the biggest problem, I'm calling the new platform a success
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:20
!action adamw and kparal to come up with a plan to start directing 'official' messages to discourse as well as mailing lists (and possibly having the mailing list versions encourage use of discourse?)
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:34
we can use the existing ticket for that i guess
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:01:52
on the topic of compose emails, i'm actually kinda planning to ditch the check-compose emails, since i don't really read them any more and i don't know if anyone else does
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:09
that would help with a longer term project i have to simplify fedfind, as check-compose is the only consumer of a couple of weird things fedfind does
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:02:14
not outside the release window
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:27
they were more important before we did update testing
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:27
>
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:29
?
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:02:52
were you talking about "compose nominated for testing" emails?
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:02:56
no no
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:03:00
ah
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:03:07
I only read those during the release window
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:03:08
"compose check report" mails
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:03:20
I filter those somewhere....
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:03:34
i used to use them a lot to keep track of what was changing day to day
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:03:49
but now we have pretty comprehensive update testing they're just not as useful because we catch most stuff in the update tests
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:04:21
it's useful to have those information sometimes, but I'm not sure if a mailing list is the best place
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:04:22
and i never really see any evidence that anyone else is using them
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:07
hmm
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:05:11
I don't remember the last time I used it
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:12
anyhoo, it's a sidebar
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:15
oh, and we seem to be over time...
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:24
so, we have an action item, let's move on briefly
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:34
!topic Test Day / community event status
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:42
i guess sumantro isn't around, again
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:46
i'm gonna have to ask him to show up next time
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:05:54
!info tabled as sumantro is not around
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:06:00
!action adamw to make sure sumantro is around next time
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:06:05
!topic Open floor
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:06:07
any other business, folks?
<@lruzicka:matrix.org>
17:06:42
I do not have anything at the moment.
<@kparal:matrix.org>
17:06:47
nothing here
<@coremodule:fedora.im>
17:07:21
nothing here
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:07:49
has anyone tested f40 on raspberry pis yet? :D
<@coremodule:fedora.im>
17:08:05
yes, I booted last week
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:31
alrighty, then i guess we're done here
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:34
thanks, folks
<@adamwill:fedora.im>
17:10:36
!endmeeting