2024-01-08 16:01:56 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !startmeeting Fedora QA meeting
2024-01-08 16:01:57 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-01-08 16:01:56 UTC
2024-01-08 16:01:57 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora QA meeting'
2024-01-08 16:02:02 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !meetingname fedora-qa
2024-01-08 16:02:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Roll Call
2024-01-08 16:02:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ahoyhoy, who's around for the qa meeting? nobody from flatpak is allowed to leave, you are all qa now
2024-01-08 16:02:26 <@adamwill:fedora.im> it's contagious
2024-01-08 16:02:40 <@pboy:fedora.im> I'm here
2024-01-08 16:03:02 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I'm here
2024-01-08 16:03:10 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> .hello2
2024-01-08 16:03:16 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi 
2024-01-08 16:03:17 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-01-08 16:03:26 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> morning, all. happy new year, etc etc
2024-01-08 16:03:39 <@adamwill:fedora.im> happy new year indeed
2024-01-08 16:05:03 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !hi
2024-01-08 16:05:04 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aoife Moloney (amoloney)
2024-01-08 16:05:10 <@amoloney:fedora.im> hello everyone!
2024-01-08 16:05:11 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> !ji
2024-01-08 16:05:14 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> !hi
2024-01-08 16:05:17 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @lruzicka:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
2024-01-08 16:08:00 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alllrighty
2024-01-08 16:08:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Previous meeting follow-up
2024-01-08 16:08:21 <@tflink:fedora.im> !hi
2024-01-08 16:08:22 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Tim Flink (tflink)
2024-01-08 16:08:35 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info no action items from the previous meeting, does anybody have anything that wasn't marked as an action item?
2024-01-08 16:09:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !undo
2024-01-08 16:09:55 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hmm
2024-01-08 16:10:44 <@adamwill:fedora.im> well now i'm in a quandary
2024-01-08 16:10:47 <@adamwill:fedora.im> did the undo work or not?
2024-01-08 16:10:55 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i guess a dupe is better than no record
2024-01-08 16:10:59 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I'm going with "not"
2024-01-08 16:11:08 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info no action items from the previous meeting
2024-01-08 16:11:11 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty
2024-01-08 16:11:23 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Fedora 40 check-in
2024-01-08 16:12:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info we have 4 proposed blockers and 6 accepted blockers for F40 (though 4 of the accepted blockers are image size bugs and we're in the process of lifting those limits). would be good for folks to vote on the proposals
2024-01-08 16:12:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !action adamw to contact bootloader folks about plans for shim in F40
2024-01-08 16:17:08 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if you look at https://pagure.io/fesco/issues?status=Open&tags=system+wide+change&tags=self+contained+change&close_status= you can see there are still some juicy Changes coming through the pipe
2024-01-08 16:17:30 <@adamwill:fedora.im> we may be getting yet another image build tool to worry about (...yay)
2024-01-08 16:17:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> "Assign individual, stable MAC addresses for Wi-Fi connections" seems kinda neat but also possibly the kind of thing that may have unintended consequences
2024-01-08 16:18:21 <@adamwill:fedora.im> "Unify /usr/bin and /usr/sbin" is obviously significant and "Rename/Change Firefox desktop file" has already caused several problems 
2024-01-08 16:19:37 <@amoloney:fedora.im> as an FYI too there are x4 changes to be announced today that fell into the shutdown/vacation and change proposal deadline - two of which relate to AI
2024-01-08 16:20:07 <@amoloney:fedora.im> this is just extra info at this point though, not actionable so sorry if this is clutter
2024-01-08 16:21:01 <@adamwill:fedora.im> no problem, it's good to know
2024-01-08 16:22:04 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info there are still four more change proposals to come as they were proposed before deadlines over the holidays
2024-01-08 16:23:07 <@amoloney:fedora.im> the AI change proposal owners are new to the process, they have been in contact with me for a few weeks and I have their proposals now to announce with the others all together before drawing a hard line that were closed for F40 now....if thats a thing! Although Im sure exceptions can be made when necessary and needed
2024-01-08 16:27:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if the change is mostly about adding new stuff, that's generally less of an issue for us
2024-01-08 16:27:37 <@tflink:fedora.im> which AI change proposal is system-wide?
2024-01-08 16:30:16 <@amoloney:fedora.im> one will be bringing Pytorch to fedora - The goal of packaging PyTorch for Fedora is to make this open-source machine learning framework easily accessible and seamlessly integrable within the Fedora Linux ecosystem. By providing PyTorch as a packaged software in the Fedora repositories, users gain simplified installation and maintenance processes. This enhances the accessibility of PyTorch for Fedora users, fostering a conducive environment for developers, researchers, and enthusiasts to leverage the capabilities of this powerful machine learning framework. Additionally, packaging PyTorch for Fedora contributes to the broader open-source community by promoting collaborative development and innovation in the field of machine learning on the Fedora platform. 
2024-01-08 16:31:21 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Ive pulled this from the gdoc the owners shared with me today - I need to add it as a wiki page. They had no permissions to create one, I suspect they need to be added to a group to be able to do this so this is a workaround for now in the interest of time 
2024-01-08 16:31:48 <@tflink:fedora.im> how is pytorch system-wide? isn't the self-contained change proposal deadline tomorrow?
2024-01-08 16:32:13 <@amoloney:fedora.im> then theyre not late at all....!
2024-01-08 16:32:38 <@tflink:fedora.im> I realize that I just asked a question but this seems out of scope for the current meeting, shall we take this elsewhere?
2024-01-08 16:33:38 <@adamwill:fedora.im> in the interests of time, maybe
2024-01-08 16:33:43 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Sure! Didnt want to clutter the chat here,  but also didnt want to not mention them and have it be an issue later because of my ignorance :-D
2024-01-08 16:33:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but yeah, the 'self-contained' / 'systemwide' distinction has always been a terrible one anyway and we should fix it
2024-01-08 16:33:59 <@adamwill:fedora.im> homework for aoife :D
2024-01-08 16:34:26 <@tflink:fedora.im> no worries, I'm mostly interested because I'm involved with the pytorch and ROCm proposals
2024-01-08 16:34:50 <@amoloney:fedora.im> excellent :)
2024-01-08 16:38:43 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info in general F40 seems to be in solid shape at the moment, no major breakages
2024-01-08 16:39:28 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> ❤️
2024-01-08 16:42:51 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Communications overhaul: Discourse?
2024-01-08 16:43:06 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so i've brought this up a few times, but at least we have a few more folks now, and we've more or less 'completed' moving to matrix
2024-01-08 16:43:10 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so this is just about discourse now
2024-01-08 16:43:20 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i meant to announce this meeting on discourse as well, but forgot. oh well. :D
2024-01-08 16:43:51 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so the idea is still to move discussion etc. from the mailing list(s) to discourse. how are folks feeling about this? what have your experiences with discourse been?
2024-01-08 16:44:28 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I don't love it, but it's definitely easier to use from a phone, which is unfortunately my primary method is keeping up with things right now.
2024-01-08 16:45:00 <@kparal:matrix.org> My experience is good, and it would make it better approachable for the general public
2024-01-08 16:45:06 <@tflink:fedora.im> I don't care a whole lot so long as we don't end up split with half the people on one thing and half the people on the other
2024-01-08 16:45:06 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> I wish there was a better threaded view somehow. Maybe I've just missed it.
2024-01-08 16:45:36 <@pboy:fedora.im> I don't love either and I suppose e.g. Server WG will stay with mailing list and chat
2024-01-08 16:47:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> It is certainly more powerful, but more inefficient. Far too many functions that are superfluous for the purpose and only cost time. 
2024-01-08 16:50:10 <@adamwill:fedora.im> okay, so...i think we should at least tentatively move ahead with this
2024-01-08 16:50:20 <@adamwill:fedora.im> do we maybe want to come up with concrete first steps? any thoughts, Kamil Páral ?
2024-01-08 16:50:40 <@adamwill:fedora.im> maybe start by duplicating things like meeting announcements and summary mails to discourse?
2024-01-08 16:50:46 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Will there be a dedicated Category?
2024-01-08 16:51:00 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Or more likely I suppose, a tag
2024-01-08 16:51:03 <@kparal:matrix.org> there's a tag already
2024-01-08 16:51:12 <@adamwill:fedora.im> yeah, we have a tag already
2024-01-08 16:51:19 <@kparal:matrix.org> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA#Discussion_(forum)
2024-01-08 16:51:24 <@adamwill:fedora.im> weren't we talking about getting a category or a group or one of those words?
2024-01-08 16:51:27 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Which aren't listed alphabetically...
2024-01-08 16:51:55 <@kparal:matrix.org> we were: https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/744
2024-01-08 16:51:57 <@adamwill:fedora.im> (yes, groups are a thing, https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/g )
2024-01-08 16:52:32 <@adamwill:fedora.im> although i think primarily groups are a sort of organizational function not a...way of categorizing material...
2024-01-08 16:52:45 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anyway, the tag is https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/tag/quality-team
2024-01-08 16:52:51 <@kparal:matrix.org> the groups are not required for the move, I think. just having the tag is enough
2024-01-08 16:54:12 <@kparal:matrix.org> we should start directing official information like announcements (meetings, test days, probably composes etc) there, yes. And ask everybody on test list to subscribe to our tag.
2024-01-08 16:54:49 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Can the meeting announcements include a link to chat.fedoraproject.org?
2024-01-08 16:55:13 <@kparal:matrix.org> I edited fedocal event a short while ago
2024-01-08 16:55:17 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> It seems odd to me have a Matrix link, but not a link that promotes easy use of FAS
2024-01-08 16:55:28 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> At least in the annoucement emails.
2024-01-08 16:55:32 <@kparal:matrix.org> the email announcement already contains:  # Location: https://matrix.to/#/#meeting:fedoraproject.org
2024-01-08 16:55:53 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Right, but that takes you to vanilla Matrix
2024-01-08 16:55:56 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i think brandon is saying the link shouldn't use matrix.to ?
2024-01-08 16:55:57 <@kparal:matrix.org> but we should also link to chat.fp.o, yes. Or some guide.
2024-01-08 16:56:04 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Which I could not figure out how to make work with FAS
2024-01-08 16:56:18 <@adamwill:fedora.im> that's just the URL i get when right-clicking this room, honestly
2024-01-08 16:56:25 <@adamwill:fedora.im> if someone can give me a better URL via fedora.im , please do :D
2024-01-08 16:56:31 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Yes, it works right after I'm already signed in
2024-01-08 16:56:42 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> But that's, not super intuitive?
2024-01-08 16:57:46 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> ( https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/how-to-link-to-a-fedora-chat-matrix-room/33186/1 ) ?
2024-01-08 16:58:00 <@kparal:matrix.org> I already tried to improve https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/communications/#_chat here  https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/issue/214
2024-01-08 16:58:05 <@kparal:matrix.org> more improvements welcome
2024-01-08 16:58:16 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Actually, no, the link doesn't even work despite the fact I'm signed in with FAS via chat.fedoraproject.org
2024-01-08 16:58:22 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> Asks me to preview
2024-01-08 16:58:41 <@adamwill:fedora.im> nirik: thanks. now i just have to remember that when i'm writing the next announcement email. :D
2024-01-08 16:59:11 <@kparal:matrix.org> and I guess I'll need to edit our docs once again
2024-01-08 16:59:40 <@adamwill:fedora.im> Brandon Nielsen: i agree it's a problem, i just didn't know about it
2024-01-08 17:00:57 <@nielsenb:fedora.im> If that's the biggest problem, I'm calling the new platform a success
2024-01-08 17:01:20 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !action adamw and kparal to come up with a plan to start directing 'official' messages to discourse as well as mailing lists (and possibly having the mailing list versions encourage use of discourse?)
2024-01-08 17:01:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> we can use the existing ticket for that i guess
2024-01-08 17:01:52 <@adamwill:fedora.im> on the topic of compose emails, i'm actually kinda planning to ditch the check-compose emails, since i don't really read them any more and i don't know if anyone else does
2024-01-08 17:02:09 <@adamwill:fedora.im> that would help with a longer term project i have to simplify fedfind, as check-compose is the only consumer of a couple of weird things fedfind does
2024-01-08 17:02:14 <@kparal:matrix.org> not outside the release window
2024-01-08 17:02:27 <@adamwill:fedora.im> they were more important before we did update testing
2024-01-08 17:02:27 <@adamwill:fedora.im> >
2024-01-08 17:02:29 <@adamwill:fedora.im> ?
2024-01-08 17:02:52 <@kparal:matrix.org> were you talking about "compose nominated for testing" emails?
2024-01-08 17:02:56 <@adamwill:fedora.im> no no
2024-01-08 17:03:00 <@kparal:matrix.org> ah
2024-01-08 17:03:07 <@kparal:matrix.org> I only read those during the release window
2024-01-08 17:03:08 <@adamwill:fedora.im> "compose check report" mails
2024-01-08 17:03:20 <@kparal:matrix.org> I filter those somewhere....
2024-01-08 17:03:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i used to use them a lot to keep track of what was changing day to day
2024-01-08 17:03:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> but now we have pretty comprehensive update testing they're just not as useful because we catch most stuff in the update tests
2024-01-08 17:04:21 <@kparal:matrix.org> it's useful to have those information sometimes, but I'm not sure if a mailing list is the best place
2024-01-08 17:04:22 <@adamwill:fedora.im> and i never really see any evidence that anyone else is using them
2024-01-08 17:05:07 <@adamwill:fedora.im> hmm
2024-01-08 17:05:11 <@kparal:matrix.org> I don't remember the last time I used it
2024-01-08 17:05:12 <@adamwill:fedora.im> anyhoo, it's a sidebar
2024-01-08 17:05:15 <@adamwill:fedora.im> oh, and we seem to be over time...
2024-01-08 17:05:24 <@adamwill:fedora.im> so, we have an action item, let's move on briefly
2024-01-08 17:05:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Test Day / community event status
2024-01-08 17:05:42 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i guess sumantro isn't around, again
2024-01-08 17:05:46 <@adamwill:fedora.im> i'm gonna have to ask him to show up next time
2024-01-08 17:05:54 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !info tabled as sumantro is not around
2024-01-08 17:06:00 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !action adamw to make sure sumantro is around next time
2024-01-08 17:06:05 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2024-01-08 17:06:07 <@adamwill:fedora.im> any other business, folks?
2024-01-08 17:06:42 <@lruzicka:matrix.org> I do not have anything at the moment.
2024-01-08 17:06:47 <@kparal:matrix.org> nothing here
2024-01-08 17:07:21 <@coremodule:fedora.im> nothing here
2024-01-08 17:07:49 <@adamwill:fedora.im> has anyone tested f40 on raspberry pis yet? :D
2024-01-08 17:08:05 <@coremodule:fedora.im> yes, I booted last week
2024-01-08 17:10:31 <@adamwill:fedora.im> alrighty, then i guess we're done here
2024-01-08 17:10:34 <@adamwill:fedora.im> thanks, folks
2024-01-08 17:10:36 <@adamwill:fedora.im> !endmeeting